Senate sides with Obama, removes F-22 money

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JIM ABRAMS | 07/21/09 09:04 PM | AP

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Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., right, talk about their F-22 amendment to the defense authorization bill on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, July 21, 2009. (AP Photo/Gerald Herbert)

WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Tuesday to halt production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets in a high-stakes showdown over President Barack Obama's efforts to shift defense spending to a new generation of smaller F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

The 58-40 vote reflected an all-out lobbying campaign by the administration, which had to overcome resistance from lawmakers confronted with the potential losses of defense-related jobs if the F-22 program was terminated.

"The president really needed to win this vote," Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., said. Levin said it was important not only on the merits of the planes but "in terms of changing the way we do business in Washington."

The top Republican on the committee, John McCain of Arizona, agreed that it was "a signal that we are not going to continue to build weapons systems with cost overruns which outlive their requirements for defending this nation."

Supporters of the program cited both the importance of the F-22 to U.S. security interests – pointing out that China and Russia are developing planes that can compete with it – and a need to protect aerospace jobs in a bad economy.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates and other Pentagon officials have determined that production of the F-22, which has not been used in Iraq and Afghanistan, should be stopped at 187 planes in order to focus on the F-35, which would also be available to the Navy and Marine Corps.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, countered that the F-35 is designed to supplement, not replace, the F-22, "the "NASCAR racer of this air dominance team." Supporters of the F-22 have put the number needed at anywhere from 250 to 380.

The defense bill has funds to build 30 F-35s. The plane is currently being produced in small numbers for testing purposes. The single-engine plane will eventually replace the venerable F-16 and the Air Force's aging fleet of A-10s. Its primary purpose is to attack targets on the ground.

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The twin-engine F-22 Raptor is a jet the Air Force would use for air-to-air combat missions.

McCain said the voting margin of victory was "directly attributable" to Obama, his opponent in the last presidential election, and Gates, who has pushed for termination of the F-22 and other weapons systems he says have outlived their usefulness.

The vote removed $1.75 billion set aside in a $680 billion defense policy bill to build seven more F-22 Raptors, adding to the 187 stealth technology fighters already built or being built.

The Senate action also saved Obama from what could have been a political embarrassment. He had urged the Senate to strip out the money and threatened what would have been the first veto of his presidency if the F-22 money remained.

Immediately after the vote, Obama told reporters at the White House the Senate's decision would "better protect our troops."

White House officials said Vice President Joe Biden and chief of staff Rahm Emanuel lobbied senators, as did Gates.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Tuesday that spending on the stealth fighter would "inhibit our ability to buy things we do need," including Gates' proposal to add 22,000 soldiers to the Army.

"I've never seen the White House lobby like they've lobbied on this issue," said Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, an F-22 supporter whose state would be hit hard by a production shutdown.

According to Lockheed Martin Corp., the main contractor for both planes, 25,000 people are directly employed in building the F-22, and an additional 70,000 have indirect links, particularly in Georgia, Texas and California.

Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., a strong backer of the program, said his state stood to lose 2,000 to 4,000 jobs if F-22 production ended.

Levin suggested that some workers might be shifted to F-35 production. "We have to find places for people who are losing their jobs," he said.

The House last month approved its version of the defense bill with a $369 million down payment for 12 additional F-22 fighters. The House Appropriations Committee last week endorsed that spending in drawing up its Pentagon budget for next year. It also approved $534 million for an alternate engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, another program that Obama, backed by the Pentagon, says is unwarranted and would subject the entire bill to a veto.

The defense bill authorizes $550 billion for defense programs and $130 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and for other anti-terrorist operations.

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The defense bill is S. 1390.

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On the Net:

Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov

WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Tuesday to halt production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets in a high-stakes showdown over President Barack Obama's efforts to shift defe...
WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Tuesday to halt production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets in a high-stakes showdown over President Barack Obama's efforts to shift defe...
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Since the war on terror is fading away, I don't see any points of spending huge amount of budget having F-22. The plan to build F-35 instead makes sense because it's cheaper and STILL can defense our country. This is what you have to do to optimize your spending. They have to get the most out of every single dollar they spent. That includes a budget management action like this.

http://www.newsy.com/videos/f_22_funding_shot_down
Right now, they're spending about $40,000 every hour when F-22 is in the air. Think of much we can do with that money!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 07/23/2009
- BritPatJax I'm a Fan of BritPatJax 14 fans permalink
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Republicans do a great job in scaring the public about the social system and social health care and I have to smile as I watch the series 'Carrier' which is being rerun on PBS. There you have 5000 Americans on one boat and they all wake up to social care. They never have to worry about the sack or about contracting cancer. Just how many Americans do enjoy the social system of the military. Are Republicans scared that when it is available to all that some incentive to enlist will be lost? Just how much DO Americans pay to keep this tub afloat and what for? How many others and how much cost? I think it is 50 milion or 50 billion for each plane? The helmet for each pilot is about $60,000 he brags? Buy a house with that? Also NASA. How much to build a toilet? Or a pen that works in space? Did the Russians not use a pencil? Proud of going to the Moon? Why not? Now be proud of not having people die aged 50 with diabetes they cannot afford treatment for?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 07/21/2009
- Shawn0965 I'm a Fan of Shawn0965 3 fans permalink
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The thing to watch here is not the F-22.

The little throw away line about the "alternative" engine is actually the news story.

The company developing that "alternative" engine is a joint venture of GE-Rolls Royce. Per the F-35 program website, there are 16 other countries who are "partners" in the F-35 program. Several years ago under the Bush administration Congress refused to fund the alternative. The British government protested and the money magically got added back into the budget.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 07/21/2009
- kev1000 I'm a Fan of kev1000 41 fans permalink

Well, good. Now that we've gotten all this out of the way, we really need to take a look at the whole GI JOE program. I mean, really, look at the tech those guys are using! Is COBRA really that much of a threat anymore?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 07/21/2009
- cdub1991 I'm a Fan of cdub1991 61 fans permalink

There's always HYDRA. Don't forget about CHAOS, either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 07/21/2009
- pocee I'm a Fan of pocee 28 fans permalink
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Mr. Abrams, not surprisingly from the Associated Press, mis-characterizes this as the Senate saving Obama from embarrassment. What actually happened is the that the President and Sec. Gates waged a political battle over core principals and won the day.

To quote a fictional President , "What's Next!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 07/21/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 612 fans permalink
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Let's try again...

I've said it many times and I'll say it again: the US needs to dramatically scale back its military to a **SELF-DEFENCE** force. Russia and China would be more than happy to get rid of their expensive-to-maintain ICBMs and boomers, if the US did the same. The ONLY reason military spending is increasing worldwide is because the US military budget is rising and people outside the US are feeling more and more uncomfortable with a lone military superpower spending on weapons more than the rest of the world combined. America should shrink the military budget to the level of other big countries (Russia, China, India), I'd say between $50 and 80 billion. Here's a few suggestions: close down all military bases overseas, gradually get rid of aircraft carriers, boomers and ICBMs.I bet the other powers with similar toys will be very glad to follow every American move. All it takes is to understand that people are the same anywhere in the world...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 07/21/2009
- jhamm1 I'm a Fan of jhamm1 38 fans permalink

You made it past the "mo der ators"!

High five!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 07/21/2009
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If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 PM on 07/21/2009
- Telemachus I'm a Fan of Telemachus 132 fans permalink

No, the worst case is when there is nothing left to fight for.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 07/21/2009
- samjung23 I'm a Fan of samjung23 10 fans permalink

Agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 PM on 07/21/2009

i'm a pacifist too but we live in a pred/prey world.

Disarming is NOT an option.

Not to mention that defense spending is the basis for tech innovation thats a huge boost to our economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 07/21/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 612 fans permalink
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You're so not a pacifist. I didn't say the US should disarm, I said its military budget shouldn't exceed that of other big countries like Russia and China.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 07/21/2009

Ironically, you sound very much like one of my favorite people, Maj.Gen Smedely Butler, USMC. The most decorated Marine in American history. If you haven't read his book , "War is a Racket," you should. Excellent stuff. Invincible defense at the coastline, and nothing more. Take the profit out of war and you end pointless wars. That sort of thing.

:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 07/21/2009
- VicDaring I'm a Fan of VicDaring 8 fans permalink

The F-22 is awesome. It is the fastest, most maneuverable, heat-packin' monster in the air.

The best and baddest fighter imaginable..if the goal was to win some fictional International Top Gun competitiion.

But since noting like that exists, there's really no purpose for the F-22, when the F-35 can perform more tasks, in more environements, at less cost. And STILL rule the (F-22-less) skies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 07/21/2009
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looks like the GOP is strong on defence, yet weak on supporting middle-class Americans

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 07/21/2009
- jhamm1 I'm a Fan of jhamm1 38 fans permalink

Available for a limited time only!

Call 1-800-LOL-ROFL! That's 1-800-LOL-ROFL!

Visa and Mastercard accepted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 07/21/2009
- jhamm1 I'm a Fan of jhamm1 38 fans permalink

Sorry, I missed the last paragraph of your posting (oops!)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 07/21/2009
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The shocking thing is that 40 US Senators advocated wasting taxpayers money
on an unwanted, under-performing weapon system.

I guess the Party of No can say yes to some things.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 07/21/2009
- Telemachus I'm a Fan of Telemachus 132 fans permalink

"Yes ... Yes! ... YES!! Oh, God! YESS!!!!!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 07/21/2009
- ljc I'm a Fan of ljc 124 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 07/21/2009
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Yep.....highly disturbing that these are the same Dems "fighting" for health care reform.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 07/21/2009
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Sorry.
Only twice as many repubs said yes to waste.
My mistake.
Oh, and Lieberman?
He doesn't count for anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 07/21/2009
- Ramus I'm a Fan of Ramus 31 fans permalink

hummm very interesting - Boxer and Feinstein voted Nay..and Byrd. They should figure out a way to employ the laid of workers on a plane we need.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 07/21/2009
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"Supporters of the program cited both the importance of the F-22 to U.S. security interests – pointing out that China and Russia are developing planes that can compete with the F-22"

I had to lol, these tools really think that the U.S. is afraid of Russian and Chinese aerospace competition? Don't get me wrong, I know that China is spending a ton of cash for it's Aerospace and military technology, but they are trying to catch up to what we developed almost 20 years ago. Believe it or not, I had a neighbor in 91' who was working on the F-22 in it's earliest stages. The technology that the U.S. has at it's disposal would turn most people into goo if they knew what was really available.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 07/21/2009
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didn't one of our EP-3's tangle with the chinese fighters in 2001- Results, one downed chinese fighter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 07/21/2009
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“The technology that the U.S. has at it's disposal would turn most people into goo if they knew what was really available.

The same argument can be made for the Soviets, I mean the Russian Federation’s, technology.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 07/21/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 612 fans permalink
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Does it mean both the US and Russia have access to alien technology? ;)

P.S. Sci-fi and reality: two different things...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 07/21/2009
- cdub1991 I'm a Fan of cdub1991 61 fans permalink

Good point. The F-22 is hardly cutting edge technology. Stealth is actually very old. Only reason no one else uses it is that the materials are expensive.

I still think there's a hypersonic spy plane out there somewhere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 07/21/2009
- robinhood1 I'm a Fan of robinhood1 11 fans permalink

That's $1.75 billion less we have to borrow from the Chinese central bank. Every dollar counts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 07/21/2009
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The U.S. is broke. If we can't afford health care we sure as heck can't afford our military adventures. Close down the military now - or start funding health care, education and infrastructure. We can't afford to have every toy imaginable and be keep thousands of troops in other countries. Don't just stop spending on the F22, stop spending on most of the Pentagon's toys. Bring all the troops from South Korea, Japan, Germany, England (yes we actually have troops stationed in England) home. Close all non-U.S. bases now.

The reality is the U.S. empire is done - we are broke, and continuing the myth is only going to make things worse. The engine is dying because we have destroyed our economy with stupid banking and military adventures while we starved the fuel that feeds growth in the U.S. - education and infrastructure. At the same time we have burdened our economy with a health care system designed to suck money out of Americans at an unbelievable rate, making our businesses completely uncompetitive.

We need to fix this problem and we need to do it now - the way to start is to starve the military and feed education and fix health care. Anything else will just make the ultimate decline of America much much worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 07/21/2009

Don't forget we've also created the most horrific trade imbalances in America's history because we use 25% of global oil production while only owning about 3% of proven reserves. Any path back to global prominence must begin with renewable energy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 07/21/2009
- samjung23 I'm a Fan of samjung23 10 fans permalink

Couldn't agree more. Listen to the average person out there. They just don't understand math. We can't keep operating the way we are now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 07/21/2009
- Ramus I'm a Fan of Ramus 31 fans permalink

The problem is that the war profiteers, in addition to being greedy pigs, also employ lots of Americans. The military industrial complex has placed its manufacturing jobs in just about every state therefore the elected officials from those states are loathe to vote agains the MIC. We need to create jobs in say, healthcare and green technologies so that the employees of the MIC can be re-empolyed in less destructive projects. Ask yourself - if peace were to break out around the world who would lose money? Lockheed, Boeing, Halliburton, Bechtel..these are the corporations that own America ( and hey they are affiliated with the banking business and the media business).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 07/21/2009
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So according to conservatives we need to keep spending tax dollars on useless F-22's just to keep the workers employed, but yet we can't spend tax dollars to keep people employed building roads and teaching kids?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 07/21/2009
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."

--Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 07/21/2009
- Telemachus I'm a Fan of Telemachus 132 fans permalink

Because giving money to rich people to hide in Swiss bank accounts stimulates the economy, but giving money to ordinary people to spend is just a waste.

Get with it!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 07/21/2009
- samjung23 I'm a Fan of samjung23 10 fans permalink

Their arguments are pretty sad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 07/21/2009
- izmunuti I'm a Fan of izmunuti 2 fans permalink

YAAAAY!!! Sanity prevails at last!
Let's see more of this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 07/21/2009
- samjung23 I'm a Fan of samjung23 10 fans permalink

There was a poll on Facebook, and 76% of all voters said we shouldn't have universal health care, and in another, the majority said Obama sucks. WTF?

When will Americans learn? People just can't do math here, and they expect instant gratification. They want to support people getting insanely rich while they lose their jobs, want to support this overfunded military, and don't want universal health care, even though American health care is bankrupting us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 07/21/2009

interesting vote 58-40 ------any bets on who the 40 are.??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 07/21/2009
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Let me think. Hmmmmmmm. How many Republicans are there in the Senate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 07/21/2009
- jhamm1 I'm a Fan of jhamm1 38 fans permalink

Unfortunuately, a lot of Democrats support the airplane as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 07/21/2009
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Actually it was non-partisan with 14 Democrats and Lieberman voting in favor. Go figure

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 07/21/2009
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