Fake And Real Outrages In The Health Care Debate

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First Posted: 07-27-09 12:50 PM   |   Updated: 07-27-09 12:56 PM

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The latest faux outrage in the debate over health care reform has to do with the terrible way President Barack Obama has treated doctors. Over the weekend, Fox News Sunday commenter Bill Kristol declared that Obama was "an arrogant man" who feels "entitled to pass judgment on Cambridge cops or pediatricians." That all tied back to a comment Obama had made about doctors' judgments during last week's prime time presser:

So if they're looking -- and you come in and you've got a bad sore throat, or your child has a bad sore throat or has repeated sore throats, the doctor may look at the reimbursement system and say to himself, you know what, I make a lot more money if I take this kid's tonsils out. Now that may be the right thing to do, but I'd rather have that doctor making those decisions just based on whether you really need your kid's tonsils out or whether it might make more sense just to change -- maybe they have allergies, maybe they have something else that would make a difference.

According to Fox News's Bret Baier, that made some doctors angried-up something terrible! He told Robert Gibbs, "I've talked to a lot of doctors who were offended by that language. One sent an e-mail that said, 'To think I spent forty years training and borrowed $150,000 to become a doctor so I can take out a kid's tonsils because it's good for my bottom line is demeaning. I'm appalled.'"

I know! How dare anyone suggest that the Hippocratic Oath has been in any way trumped by the profit motives, right? I guess Obama will have to spend the August recess having beers with doctors, putting everyone's liver at risk!

But Obama's tonsilectomy example aside, the most distressing way in which our supposedly "best health care in the world" gets truly bare knuckled with regards to profit motives lies not in cases where unnecessary treatments were provided, but where necessary treatments were withheld. And on this week's edition of This American Life, entitled "Fine Print," the show does an excellent job penetrating this story in ways that aren't going to come to life in a presidential press conference.

In the segment, TAL takes on insurance applications with language so obscure and difficult to follow that their entire basis for existence seems predicated on the notion that applicants will make enough of the right sorts of mistakes so as to later make it easier to withhold treatment or deny coverage. The episode can be downloaded here, and the segment begins at about the thirty-six minute mark. The segment describes a couple of health care horror stories, including a woman whose previous acne condition was cited as the basis for denying her cancer treatment. Talk about demeaning things that appall!

In addition, James Kwak, at the Baseline Scenario, has a good post up on both this TAL segment and the underlying issues that will really add value to the listen and is heartily recommended. Kwak asserts that This American Life's segment proves that "they can cover any topic they want better than anyone else in the media." For my money, I think Kwak himself has added value to the segment by deftly connecting the issue of health insurance rescission to the financial mess:

This reminded me of nothing so much as all of those "innovations" created by credit card companies, such as universal default, penalty rates, and double-cycle billing, which are really just ways to generate fees that you are unlikely to accurately estimate at the time you sign up for the card. It's legal; it makes more money for the insurer (or credit card issuer); once one company does it, other companies have to, or they won't be able to compete; it's disclosed in such a way that customers don't understand what they are getting into; it nails you when can least afford it; and it even has a plausible economic justification. Credit card issuers claim that their arsenal of hidden fees makes the cost of credit more closely reflect the riskiness of the borrower, and without the fees they would have to charge higher interest to everyone; health insurers claim that rescission is necessary to deter fraudulent applications, and presumably without it they would have to charge higher premiums to everyone.

The devil, as they say, is in the details.

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The latest faux outrage in the debate over health care reform has to do with the terrible way President Barack Obama has treated doctors. Over the weekend, Fox News Sunday commenter Bill Kristol decl...
The latest faux outrage in the debate over health care reform has to do with the terrible way President Barack Obama has treated doctors. Over the weekend, Fox News Sunday commenter Bill Kristol decl...
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- alice09 I'm a Fan of alice09 18 fans permalink

Republicans are using United Health for the statistical study on which they base their objections to reform. The Lewin Group, who they love to quote, is a subsidiary of United Health, a health insurance company.
United Health PAID 400 MILLION in January '09 as settlement FOR DEFRAUDING PATIENTS. United Health is providing Republicans the analysis they use against health care reform.
Can it get any clearer?
The Republicans are fronting for a health insurance defrauder.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 07/27/2009
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This is IMHO consistent behavior:

htttp://www.republicanoffenders.com

http://www.armchairsubversive.org

Hypocrisy incarnate, thy name remains GOP, as in "Greedy Old Perverts," "Gutting Our Prosperity" and "Goring Our Progress."

Yeeeach.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

One of The 47 Million

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 07/28/2009
- CAHertzfe I'm a Fan of CAHertzfe 30 fans permalink
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All the same talking points that the Republicans are spewing are from the Lewin Group. They are a health care policy research and management consulting firm. They are owned by the Ingenix, which is owned by United Healthcare Group. The United Healthcare Group is one of the largest health care Insurance companies buying up as many health care related businesses in America. United Healthcare group is the company agreed to pay $3.5 Million for defrauding Medicare and Medicaid. Health care fraud costs Americans between $30 billion and $180 billion annually.

When some is against what the people know is the right thing along with the rest of civilized world, ask yourself, where is the information originating?

Would it be true to say that the Republicans in the Senate and Congress are against America and the American People? Would it be true to say that these people are only self-serving for their own profit and political power? Can we? Will we allow it to continue?

BTW, United Healthcare Group is the same insurance company bragging 155% profit this past quarter while raising their premiums 3% this year. Are we going to allow this to continue?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 07/27/2009

In case no one has mentioned it: The reason the insurance company was stalling on the lady with breast cancer was that it was a fast-developing kind. In other words, they were hoping she would die. Bless their hearts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:52 PM on 07/27/2009

A blogger, The MightyT just posted a link where you will find this quote:

"The Canadian public is fed up with waiting lists. Rather than going outside the country or calling for something else, we should be demanding the redesign of the system of care which will allow for better access."

http://www.canada.com/health/women/Toronto+hospital+expands+accelerated+breast+cancer+treatment+program/1576719/story.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 07/27/2009
- jotunloki I'm a Fan of jotunloki 8 fans permalink
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GO AWAY T R O L L

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 07/27/2009
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I spent nearly two (2) years trying to get an insurance company to cover me; no takers. Period.

I am not sufficiently impoverished to qualify for the assorted charitable medical care options defenders of the status quo claim would see to my healthcare needs, were they even available in my area.

Why have I been shut out of private insurance coverage? I have too many pre-existing conditions, and because I'm self-employed, I am "not profitable enough."

Got it?

I cannot get healthcare for *any* serious matter unless I go to the ER, and hospitals do indeed have the right to turn uninsured patients away, unless they are in an immediate life threatening condition. Fact: patients have *died* trying to find a hospital to take them in when they had reached a critical state, but had no insurance. Hospitals have been repeatedly caught *dumping* patients who were uninsured, still in need of medical treatment.

Our Declaration of Independence declared that "Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness" are indeed unalienable rights. One cannot exercise any of these unalienable rights if one is sick, and unable to get healthcare in a system as dysfunctional as our perverted for-profit system of corporate predation that you so slavishly defend.

BTW, I hope you don't dare call yourself a Christian, as your shameless defense of corporate profits over human life is pure Social Darwinism, and as unChristian as one can get.

God pity you.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 07/27/2009
- sueinmn I'm a Fan of sueinmn 101 fans permalink
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The right call themselves Christians BUT a different kind. One for power over helping those in need. I sugesst you get the book THE FAMILY. Google it. House or foundation on C STREET. Pretty bad stuff these so called Christians represent~~~~~~!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 07/27/2009
- escribacat I'm a Fan of escribacat 286 fans permalink
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I'm in exactly the same situation. Middle class,own my own home, pre-existing conditions, self-employed, been turned down enough times I just gave up. Why should a profit-oriented corporation insure me? Chances are I'll need back surgery sooner or later. They'd be fools to insure me -- so they don't. And so I go without insurance. I am definitely sick to death of you right wing jerkoffs referring to us as looking for a handout too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 07/27/2009
- escribacat I'm a Fan of escribacat 286 fans permalink
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On the other hand, here's someone who has experienced both US and Canadian health care and says the Canadian system is much better:

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 07/27/2009
- CJWebber I'm a Fan of CJWebber 22 fans permalink

Well, that's believable. Right. Countries really hate UHC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 07/28/2009
- Chernynkaya I'm a Fan of Chernynkaya 520 fans permalink
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"....and lets try to destroy anyone who disagrees with us." Actually, yes. This is a war and lives are at stake. Those opposing health care reform are destroying America. So, yes, the gloves are off as far as I am concerned, and I wish my representatives in Congress felt the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 07/27/2009
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Each day, due to the HealthCare Crisis:

40,000 americans lose their health insurance

17,000 americans file bankruptcy

400 americans die

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 07/27/2009
- Chernynkaya I'm a Fan of Chernynkaya 520 fans permalink
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Namaste.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 07/27/2009
- Chernynkaya I'm a Fan of Chernynkaya 520 fans permalink
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I saw the headline and refused to read anything about Fox and Kristol. There is nothing to learn from that unholy alliance, and since I have no health insurance, I can't afford high blood pressure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 07/27/2009
- Acebass I'm a Fan of Acebass 11 fans permalink
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Save your outrage doc. My wife was recently in the hospital, she found out she has several issues with her kidneys and a abscess on the muscle by her kidney. She was sent home last week after a 10 day stay in one of our local hospitals. She has to be on a couple antibiotic given daily through an IV. The first few days she had a nurse show her what to do in order to hook the IV up and start and stop it successfully. These are fluids going into her body through a line that goes to her heart, she works in a billing office.
I suggest if my wife can do that, not being a registered nurse, then the President can make an off the cuff diagnosis to prove a point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 07/27/2009
- NWGuy I'm a Fan of NWGuy 8 fans permalink
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Yes, some doctors are businessmen, many more are employees with pressure from the higher ups to maximize income. Do some doctors do extra tests and procedures to increase income, probably. Do most work to maximize income for work done, yes, that is just good business sense (don't you want to get paid for what you do?). Do most doctors take patients they know won't/can't pay as part of their general practice, yes (how many insurance companies do that!?).

Remember also that insurance companies do not reimburse at 100% of billed, usually anywhere from 50% to 80%, the doctor eats the rest, which can be a problem when overhead is in the 60% range. They also often deny or fight many charges. One report has put the cost to US providers just to bill and deal with the insurance companies in the area of $25 Billion/year. That's a lot of health care going up in phone calls and staff time!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:18 PM on 07/27/2009

CNBC is having a debate on healthcare tonight at 9pm. A real debate with various points of view and people supporting their points with verifiable information. Listen, you guys might learn something.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 07/27/2009
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yes, those fighting healthcare reform and the public option should tune into CNBC for talking pts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:18 PM on 07/27/2009

Let see...we want free healthcare for all and we want to sock it to the doctors and destroy insurance companies .....and lets try to destroy anyone who disagrees with us. And lets ignore why people come from all over the world to use our doctors (walk down the halls of Johns Hopkins hospital).

Somebody here needs to take some economic classes. Sounding a little like the revolution in Cuba...that went well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 07/27/2009
- ChrisR I'm a Fan of ChrisR 3 fans permalink

Who has mentioned free healthcare for all? Just makin' it up as you go along, eh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 07/27/2009
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I don't want "free health care for all", I want and will to pay for my insurance as much as I am able to. As present I am not able to pay for the insurance costs.
The insurance companies are not capable of doing the job, their treatment of their customers and the denied service for 45-50 million people in favor of extraorbitant short-term profits show this very clearly. They had their chance, bungled it and disappointed their clients and would-be clients. They will have to face a more compassionate and reasonable competition, but will exist, since there are enough wealthy folks who for whatever reason prefer a private option for themselves.
If the costs for treatment and surgery were calculated within margins that exixted in reality, more visitors would walk down the halls of US hospitals than now. 45-50 million uninsured are AN UNTAPPED MARKET.
Yes, someone needs to take some economics classes. Good afternoon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 07/27/2009
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I spent nearly two (2) years trying to get an insurance company to cover me; no takers. Period.

I am not sufficiently impoverished to qualify for the assorted charitable medical care options defenders of the status quo claim would see to my healthcare needs, were they even available in my area.

Why have I been shut out of private insurance coverage? I have too many pre-existing conditions, and because I'm self-employed, I am "not profitable enough."

Got it?

I cannot get healthcare for *any* serious matter unless I go to the ER, and hospitals do indeed have the right to turn uninsured patients away, unless they are in an immediate life threatening condition. Fact: patients have *died* trying to find a hospital to take them in when they had reached a critical state, but had no insurance. Hospitals have been repeatedly caught *dumping* patients who were uninsured, still in need of medical treatment.

Our Declaration of Independence declared that "Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness" are indeed unalienable rights. One cannot exercise any of these unalienable rights if one is sick, and unable to get healthcare in a system as dysfunctional as our perverted for-profit system of corporate predation that you so slavishly defend.

BTW, I hope you don't dare call yourself a Christian, as your shameless defense of corporate profits over human life is pure Social Darwinism, and as unChristian as one can get.

God pity you.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 07/27/2009

Senator Lamar Alexander R-TN wants to expand Hospitals to help!


HCA - NASHVILLE TN-

Really Senator?


How dare you?

2003-WWW.USDOJ.GOV - HCA INVESTIGATION - LARGEST HEALTH CARE FRAUD CASE IN U.S. HISTORY SETTLED

HCA not only robbed the country’s Medicare/Medicaid system, but the entire Healthcare system and its tentacles.

Connect- Healthcare Finance Fraud, SEC Fraud, Bankruptcy Fraud, Financial Fraud and Mortgage Fraud- all for "market driven healthcare" in America?

2009 - The Wall Street Journal reported that Richard Scott, "the former chief executive of HCA Inc," had formed the non-profit organization Conservatives for Patients' Rights as part of a "lobbying campaign to derail or modify" President Obama's health care proposals,...

In 1997, Rick Scott was terminated by Darla Moore. As part of Richard Scott's severance package from Columbia he was paid $5.13 million and given a five year consulting contract at $950,000 per year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 07/27/2009

Who likes the 2-tiered healthcare sytsems in most countries of Europe.

Take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#Europe

It may be Wikipedia but if you have facts, then dispute it

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 07/27/2009
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Too lazy to knock down your own straw man, eh?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

One of the 47 Million

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 07/27/2009
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yeah, me believing Rick Scott cares about the American people is like...

me believing the GOP cares about the American people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 07/27/2009

Notice the do nothings in congress do not speak of France–Jap­an-Netherl­ands- Switzerland-Ireland when comparing healthcare systems.

I guess they think Canada is Global enough!

This must be who Steele is setting the ‘tone and theme’ for.

Worldwide Americans do not even rank in the top 25 for education –

Consider this:.

Citi Financial terminated at least 96,000 jobs- those were the phony financial game jobs created by the Do- Nothing Congress and Bush and those tax cuts.

How many can afford COBRA Insurance when they lose their job? The Stimulus money that has been spent already has paid up to 75% of the premium for those that lost their jobs.
'STIUMULUS' $$$ ARE CONTRIBUTING to Cobra- part of the health insurance oligopoly in itself- like OPEC!

Do the ‘country first’ folks know which country has the fastest broadband?

It is not the USA- !!

Country First! Oh yea! Remind us again- 1994-2006 - what have the party of no do nothings done for America?

The six terms for Baucus- what has he done for America?

Healthcare- and Not Health insurance companies? There is a difference.

Telecommunications?

Energy?

Education?

Educate us - please!

1994-2006, where are we?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 07/27/2009

Who likes the 2-tiered healthcare sytsems in most countries of Europe.

Take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#Europe

It may be Wikipedia but if you have facts, then dispute it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 07/27/2009
- Happylall I'm a Fan of Happylall 3 fans permalink

Greetings from Florence,Italy!!! Yes indeed you ought to question Wikipedia!!!
I am an American married to an Italian and yes, I have "socialized medicine".
It is GREAT AND I LOVE IT.
American should be so happy to have a system like this.
Healthcare in Italy has been voted 2nd after France.
The entire European healthcare system is SOCIALIZED!!! It is called socialized because it is a service!!! We have police, firemen,trash removal, water etc. etc. etc. It is socialized and it is NOT a dirty word. It is fair and it is not rationed .There is no profit made on people's health.
If I want to have health care privately, I can do that too at a price. The problem is that private care is usually worse than the public care.The same goes for private schools in Italy. If one sends a kid to Private school, people laugh and the kid must be a hopeless case. Hey, there are diiferent ways of looking at the world!!!
LET'S HOPE THAT AMERICANS WAKE UP THE HEALTH CARE FIASCO NEEDS REPAIR!!!.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 07/27/2009
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neener neener neener an Italian debunked your "kill health reform" talking point.

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:56 PM on 07/27/2009
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I spent nearly two (2) years trying to get an insurance company to cover me; no takers. Period.

I am not sufficiently impoverished to qualify for the assorted charitable medical care options defenders of the status quo claim would see to my healthcare needs, were they even available in my area.

Why have I been shut out of private insurance coverage? I have too many pre-existing conditions, and because I'm self-employed, I am "not profitable enough."

Got it?

I cannot get healthcare for *any* serious matter unless I go to the ER, and hospitals do indeed have the right to turn uninsured patients away, unless they are in an immediate life threatening condition. Fact: patients have *died* trying to find a hospital to take them in when they had reached a critical state, but had no insurance. Hospitals have been repeatedly caught *dumping* patients who were uninsured, still in need of medical treatment.

Our Declaration of Independence declared that "Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness" are indeed unalienable rights. One cannot exercise any of these unalienable rights if one is sick, and unable to get healthcare in a system as dysfunctional as our perverted for-profit system of corporate predation that you so slavishly defend.

BTW, I hope you don't dare call yourself a Christian, as your shameless defense of corporate profits over human life is pure Social Darwinism, and as unChristian as one can get.

God pity you.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 07/27/2009
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The only thing that will change with the public option, is i'll be able to get care as good as my grandma's. I won't be billed for high charges after the insurance denies a doctor's fee.

That's the only thing that's gonna change. Medicare Option For ALL!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 07/27/2009

Reading the comments on this blog it is clear to me that most of you dont have a clue about doctor compensation. Talk to a REAL doctor and then form your opinions. Making stuff up isnt helpful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 07/27/2009
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I did medical billing for years, and worked in medical IT. What you wanna talk about?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 07/27/2009

Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation

Lewin's Executive under Public Option- many employers would cease to supply coverage

Please-

The Small Business Companies are already dropping insurance

Employees cost have increased every year over ten years!

Ok now- do it the Steel way- 30 x’s!
Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation
Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation
Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation
Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation
Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation
Lewin Group-United Health Care-Heritage Foundation

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 07/27/2009
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Lewin Group, the "independant" group that Cantor's always quoting.

Lewin Group, owned by United Healthcare.

Lewin Group, who lets United Healthcare skew their insurance fee schedules for their benefit.

United Healthcare, one of the biggest contributors to Blue Dogs and Repubicans.

See for yourself: www.opensecrets.org

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 07/27/2009

Oooops, someone let DestinationsUnknown out of his c@ge..........He loves to make stuff up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 07/27/2009
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what's he making up, specifically? you can't just say that without backing it up yourself

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 07/27/2009
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won't make 'em any worse either, mister, let's just do nothing. How much they payin'?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 07/27/2009
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