Krugman: What Do the Blue Dogs Want? Who Knows?

New York Times:

Right now the fate of health care reform seems to rest in the hands of relatively conservative Democrats -- mainly members of the Blue Dog Coalition, created in 1995. And you might be tempted to say that President Obama needs to give those Democrats what they want.

But he can't -- because the Blue Dogs aren't making sense.

Read the whole story: New York Times

Comments

[designingwoman]

09:07 PM on 07/28/2009

I want the chance to have public insurance as my primary and delegate my private insurance plan to secondary status. I supposedly have a good plan as a Federal employee, but I still lack the choice of doctors. I have to change doctors yet again because of the insurance company. This HAS to stop! HR 676 would give us MORE choice--the right wing liars are out there trying to fool us into thinking that "socialized medicine" is so bad. I'd give ANYTHING to be able to buy into Medicare---my private insurer can provide secondary insurance, and with both public and private coverage, I would have NO COPAYS, NO DEDUCTIBLES and more choices of doctors. AND avert the risk of medical bankruptcies!!

WHY NOT pass HR 676 and let people keep their private insurance as a secondary??!! THAT would stave off more medical bankruptcies and bring down the cost of health care especially for those who most need it!!

[lkf]

10:22 AM on 07/28/2009

They want their damn gravy train to continue at our expense. If my Louisiana reps don't get behind healthcare reform I will vote against them no matter who runs opposite them. At that point I don't even care what kind of criminal is elected but the current reps should be removed. It's time to Clean House & Senate.

[johnashman]

12:01 AM on 07/28/2009

Thank God there's still a few moderate Democrats left.

I tell you what, let's have a system where you can join the ObamaCare system or you can do your own thing and see what happens then. If it's *truly* a better system, everyone will join it and it will work. But ObamaCare doesn't want competition. It wants to be a monopoly and that has never been good for price or performance.

[unstuffedshirt]

01:06 AM on 07/28/2009

How convenient! The choice to join the public option is just that -- an option. And anybody who's been paying a modicum of attention already knows this.

[skyslimit]

01:48 AM on 07/28/2009

isn't this exactly what obama's proposal is?!?!?

[abmabardy]

11:35 PM on 07/27/2009

What Do The Blue Dogs Want?

They want to get re-elected and believe they must have insurance company contributions to do so.

We need to keep a LIST of every single dog who votes against a public option and use it against him in the next election.

Actions have consequences. The Blue Dogs' self-serving capitulation to private insurers must cost them their jobs.

[willynel]

02:33 AM on 07/28/2009

Get to them in the primaries. Don't wait until the general. Especially you folks in Montana.

[flossophy]

10:13 PM on 07/27/2009

"What do Blue Dogs Want?"

blue bones!

[Mugzi]

09:41 PM on 07/27/2009

What do they want???? You've got to be kidding!!!! THEY want status quo, no reform, the gravy train to keep rolling our economy and citizens in the hole!!! That's what THEY want!!!

[Firbolg]

04:45 PM on 07/27/2009

Kart125.

“If a mandate is created will business not providing coverage be allowed to renegotiate compensation packages to cover the new cost? Or will businesses essentially be mandated to give employees a raise in the form of health care coverage?”
Would that it were so simple!
Instead the approach appears to be that employers not providing coverage will pay a fine.
The government can use some of the fine money to give you a subsidy (but only if the government, in its wisdom decides you deserve it).
Then you must give the subsidy, plus some of your own money, to an insurance company or into the public option to buy individual health insurance.
If you choose the public option, then the money goes back to the government.
The government will give some of the money you paid for the public option to a private company, maybe even the insurance company you turned down, who will administer the public option on behalf of the government.
The private company will take all your calls, same as now.
Simple really. Isn’t it?
Just don’t get sick thinking about it!

[katyann]

11:43 PM on 07/27/2009

Single payer is the simple, straightforward, equitable way to avoid the circus you describe.

In Massachusetts an individual is fined $1000 for not signing up for health insurance. Companies over a certain size are fined under $300.

Every individual, local government, small business, and even large business (except for the health insurers) is far better off with a single payer system. Premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and various hidden taxes are currently the number one reason for bankruptcies and budget crunches. Let's do what every other industrialized country does: tax ourselves for an improved Medicare for All program and tell the insurance and pharmaceutical companies that we, not they, are in charge. We will get better care for everyone and save money.

See these slides!
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2009/Jan/An-Analysis-of-Leading-Congressional-Health-Care-Bills--2007-2008--Part-I--Insurance-Coverage.aspx

[kart125]

04:21 AM on 07/28/2009

I think you miss my point.
I receive "employer providd" health care. They pay the premium with what is essentially my money. My employer decides how much my compensation will cost the company. Part of that cost/pay is the money - my money/pay - they use to pay the health care provider. Now, the benefit to me is that I don't pay taxes on that money, which I would be if I received it monetarily, and that the cost to me is at the group plan rate which is less than had I purchased an individual plan on my own.
Now, given this is the case, the question is, would an employer not currently providing health care be allowed to renegotiate compensation to withold a portion to pay for premiums, as an employer currently providing health coverage does essentially, or would they be required to add health coverage to an existing compensation package which would essentially be a raise that is mandated and unbudgeted?
You can cast this as fines, penalties, or surcharges, but anyway this is concocted amounts to one or the other. My point being that it is unreasonable to mandate that employers give their employees raises. To be fair and consistent with current practices, employers would need to be allowed to renegotiate compensation to transfer monetary compensation into compensation via health care coverage. An alternate would be to simply provide the employee to buy into a health care plan organized by the employer.

[novoorganum]

04:28 PM on 07/27/2009

Republican Ideology and Practice: run up huge deficits while providing tax cuts for the rich and no bid government contracts to huge corporations. Yes. They want government, but for the rich. It gives them a reason to hoot and holler about deficits, while shifting blame on the incoming party, who unfairly has the responsibility to fix the mess and poverty created under their rule. Of course, after pillaging our countries resources, the goal now for Republicans is to set the stage for the next election cycle by giving themselves a moral platform of claiming that they are socially conservative in order to eliminate social spending, pensions and funding for public education.

[flossophy]

04:37 PM on 07/27/2009

This comment is pending approval and won't be displayed until it is approved.

Obama tripled Shrub's def|cit.
Allowing people to keep more of the money they earn is good for the ec0nomy.
We spend more money on educat|on than almost all of the deve|0ped world... yet we ra`nk among the lowest. Throwing more money at this problem will not make it go away. We must bre`ak up the g0vernment-run educat|on mon0po|y.

You have been w`h`i`p`p`e`d up into c|a`ss war`fare... sh`ame on you for not realizing this.

[viriatus]

04:25 PM on 07/27/2009

They are not blue dog democrats. They are blue cross democrats, and they happen to be dogs.

[Tazru]

04:00 PM on 07/27/2009

Gotta love the Sarah Plain Style responses to questions people do not know anything about.

"In what way?"

"I've read ALL the Theories"

The whole Right Wing has been Palinized!

[flossophy]

04:06 PM on 07/27/2009

nice skrub of my comment...

I was simply pointing out that whenever a Pr0gressive runs out of salient points... they pull the Pa|in routine.

[Tazru]

04:15 PM on 07/27/2009

Yawn.......

To quote your hero RobertMoore:

"Prove me wrong!!!

You have Nothing!!!¨

I still do not care.

Thank you for Clicking to support Progressive causes.

Woot!

[Tazru]

03:47 PM on 07/27/2009

The Four Pillars idea, and the Three-Legged Stool idea come from people working in Systems Theory. You can look to sites like The Society of Organizational Learning for some good information that can help explain why this should work. This is about looking at the big picture and long-term strategy, instead of short-term profits like we have been doing. Chess, not Checkers.

It will also explain why the Insurance Industry adds no value to the Health Care System and is mostly wasted overhead costs.

Systems Theory is used in modelling complex systems that are interconnected to others, i.e Natural Resource management, Meteorology, etc. Related concepts are Emergence, Chaos Theory, and Cosmology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory

http://www.solonline.org/

http://deming.org/

[Tazru]

03:36 PM on 07/27/2009

Clicks = Money

Thank the tro//s, they provide the Snark that drives the Money Machine, I first noticed this on other sites over 5 years ago.

The tro//s will make a fortune for progressive causes by providing entertainment and Snark potential. Keep them talking on this site. $$$

Woot!

Everyone learn more about Science, it will help us escape the Feudal Era.

[flossophy]

03:47 PM on 07/27/2009

correction: this Pr0gressive feudal era.

We're still living with antiquated New Deal / Great Society programs and institutions... they're the ones that are causing all of the problems in our society... like Fannie & Freddie... Two Pr0gressive institutions which almost brought down the worlds' economies.

But it seems that Tazru has bought into the notion that it's somehow capita|ism which is the problem... when looking over the 20th century... capita|ism was the only thing that worked! Every s0cialist experiment failed... including W. Europe.

He/she forgets that S0cialism / Pr0gressivism / assorted leftism... is simply State-run capita|ism.

And we all know that the market will outwit the central planners no matter how much Systems Theory they've been taught.

[Tazru]

03:49 PM on 07/27/2009

Wrong again!

What is Systems Theory, and why do you think it does not apply?

What have you got besides olde right-wing talking points that you cut& paste?

Thanks for Clicking to support Progressive causes!

Woot!

[Tazru]

03:52 PM on 07/27/2009

You are making assumption again.

You never explained why you specifically object to the application of Systems Theory to the problems. Do you know what it is?

Keep talking out your @rse, it is amusing and supports our causes.

Thanks again for Clicking for Cash.

[mitsie]

03:25 PM on 07/27/2009

Do you want to help speak out for the public option? Just sign up to have your name in a commercial. Forward this to your friends and relatives. At least now we feel like we're doing something.

http://floridaspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/06/do-you-want-your-name-on-tv-in-support.html

[Tazru]

03:28 PM on 07/27/2009

Done a few days ago.

[flossophy]

02:58 PM on 07/27/2009

Krugman always looks like a frightened pr0gressive economist squirrel.

Oh, pr0gressive economist is an oxym0ron... Pr0gressives have been rejecting economic science since the 60's.

[Tazru]

03:06 PM on 07/27/2009

Wow, are you way off as usual. Get out of the Feudal Era of Ayn Rand Reaganomics.

Systems Theory. Learn.

We are not playing Checkers.

Welcome to the 21st Century.

[flossophy]

03:17 PM on 07/27/2009

Every economist on the glebe knows that you should not raise taxes and expand government during a recession. Even Kruggie admits to F`D`R's policies as being a complete fail to pull us out of the GD.

The more money you siphon off into un-productive government bureaucracies, the less economic activity you see. This isn't rocket science.

How do you explain the largest 25 year peacetime worldwide economic expansion in history... starting in 1982. You think happy thoughts made that happen?

Perhaps you should learn the economic lessons of the 20th century before reviving failed statist policies in the 21st.

[kart125]

02:31 PM on 07/27/2009

How is it an employer's responsibility to provide health care? Do we get our food or housing from employers? No we get paid and buy our own food and housing of our choice. Note that employer provided health care is not free to the employer but is paid for with money that otherwise would have been paid to the employee. Why is it now expected that businesses should be obligated to pick and choose our health care and essentially pay for with our own money? If a mandate is created will business not providing coverage be allowed to rengotiate compensation packages to cover the new cost? Or will businesses essentially be mandated to give employess a raise in the form of health care coverage?

Tax incentives were created to encourage businesses to provide health care coverage in the interest of expanding coverage and group plans made it financially advantageous for both employer and employee. So because of this we now think businesses are somehow obligated to be health care providers? This is just typical "entitlement creep" - something that was once a benefit to employees is now an employee entitlement .

[Tazru]

02:43 PM on 07/27/2009

The Olde Skool Economics of Ayn Rand has the country running scared, because they believe the Rich are our Benefactors while we create the wealth that gets Trickled UP to the Richest.

We need to start thinking of the big picture and long-term plans, not short-term profit-taking for the few.

Systems Theory helps explain.

[flossophy]

03:19 PM on 07/27/2009

It's called "Price Discovery"... and it will always outsmart the smartest, most arr0gant central planners on the left.

[kart125]

04:01 PM on 07/27/2009

Ooh, think you're sophism is so clever. Systems theory is just a tool. Just because you have a tool doesn't mean that it will produce desired results. If you have a power saw that doesn't mean you can or will build a house and just not end up reducing a pile of perfectly good lumber to sawdust.

Now put the theory down and step away before you hurt yourself or someone else.

[mitsie]

03:33 PM on 07/27/2009

I am F'N sick of hearing about entitlements, we should have a right to healthcare. We are the richest nation in the world, but it's so bad we have so many tight-wads!!!!!!!

[kart125]

03:58 PM on 07/27/2009

But how is it that businesses are the ones obligated to provide that.? That was my point in case you weren't paying attemtion.