Popularity, Web Snafus Nearly Broke 'Clunkers'

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DAN STRUMPF | 08/ 1/09 08:56 AM | AP

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Cash For Clunkers

NEW YORK — This was one government stimulus plan that yielded quick results. Maybe too quick.

Far more drivers signed up for the "cash for clunkers" program than anyone thought, overwhelming showrooms, blowing through the initial $1 billion set aside by Congress and leaving dealers panicked over when or if the government would make good on the hefty rebates.

Confusion reigned, even as dollars flowed into dealerships starved for business for months.

The government Web site set up to process rebates of up to $4,500 per new car could not keep up with demand. Washington scrambled to come up with more cash and sent mixed signals about how the program would unfold.

"A borderline train wreck," said Charlie Swenson, general manager at Walser Toyota in Bloomington, Minn. In Glen Burnie, Md., Bob Bell, who owns Ford, Kia and Hyundai dealerships, said his employees were overwhelmed filing for reimbursement from the government's clunky system.

He compared the program to a military operation: "It is a disaster," Bell said. "We met our objective, but the losses were terrible."

The House voted Friday to replenish the program with $2 billion, setting up likely Senate action next week. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said the administration assured lawmakers that "deals will be honored until otherwise noted by the White House."

Like a car salesman beckoning from the lot, Levin said "people ought to get in and buy their cars" while the hot deals last. The White House joined in the pitch, telling consumers the program is solid through "this weekend." That left unclear what happens after that, until more money is approved for it.

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The Car Allowance Rebate System offers owners of old cars and trucks $3,500 or $4,500 toward a new, more fuel-efficient vehicle, in exchange for scrapping their old vehicle. Congress last month approved the plan to boost auto sales and remove some inefficient cars and trucks from the roads.

It was unclear how many cars had been sold under the program on Friday, but the number was far higher than anyone had expected. About 40,000 vehicle sales were done through the program but dealers estimated they were trying to complete transactions on an additional 200,000 vehicles, said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich.

"I think the general public right now is looking for a bargain in any way to spend their money," said Kitty Van Bortel, who owns Ford and Subaru dealerships in Victor, N.Y., "and this was perceived as an incredible bargain and people took advantage of it."

The backlog had been building for weeks. Auto dealers could begin offering the rebate at the beginning of the month, and many began doing so over the July 4 weekend. But it was not until a week ago that dealers could begin filing for reimbursement, leaving them on the hook for as much as $4,500 per car until they get the federal money.

That's when they ran into difficulties with a federal Web site ill equipped to handle the volume of claims and the multiple documents each submission requires. Some dealers said the process took upward of an hour for each transaction, caused repeated rejections and consumed many hours submitting and resubmitting data.

At Walser Toyota in Bloomington, customers began lining up on Monday before doors opened at 7:30 a.m.. Swenson said. By that afternoon, his dealership had done 150 trade-ins under the program. His salesmen worked overnight to scan and submit forms.

But of the 150, he said, only 30 received responses and all of those were rejections.

Dennis and Marcia Strom hurried into that dealership Friday, fearing the rebates might not last, and filled out paperwork for a new car.

"I might have waited until the truck died," Dennis Strom said of his 14-year-old Dodge Dakota. "It's a good vehicle that suits our needs. But it's not worth $3,500."

About 100 people were looking to sign deals there but were holding off because of uncertainty over the rebates.

It took three hours Thursday for employees at one of Sam Pack's Dallas-area Ford dealerships to submit just eight documents. Pack said he feared that many deals made under the program wouldn't be properly reimbursed.

"The details of processing this is beyond what anybody would think is reasonable," he said.

Federal officials said they have increased the capacity of the submission system and added staff to work hot lines and process voucher applications.

In Victor, Van Bortel considered pulling the plug on rebates at the Ford and Subaru dealerships she owns, even though her ads promoting the rebates were locked in for the weekend.

"Honestly, in all my years in the car business, I have never seen such a mess," she said.

Still, it was a mess created by too much action, instead of not enough.

Officials hoped that when the dust cleared from the confusion, the program would be a tonic for the beleaguered auto industry and a benefit for the environment, with many inefficient cars taken off the road.

President Barack Obama said the program has "succeeded well beyond our expectations" and praised the House for moving quickly to establish new financing.

"This is a test drive," Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., said of the program, "and people bought it big time."

Bell, in Glen Burnie, said the rebates have "pulled forward a tremendous market."

"It's wonderful to sell them," he said. "But if you have to pay off a vehicle immediately, you're going to have a severe cash flow deficit."

Dealers are used to working with similar incentive programs offered by auto manufacturers, said John McEleney, chairman of the National Automobile Dealers Association. But the rules are much less stringent under those programs, and automakers generally don't require nearly as much documentation, he said.

His group surveyed dealer franchises using the program and realized the money for it might be getting short. One survey finding: Consumers were opting to use the higher $4,500 rebate over the $3,500 amount by a margin of 2-to-1, eating through the money faster.

"It has been very problematic," McEleney said. "I don't believe that anyone anticipated the volume would be this great."

__

Associated Press writers Stephen Manning in Washington, Nomaan Merchant in Minneapolis, Ben Dobbin in Rochester, N.Y., and Ken Thomas in Washington contributed to this report.

NEW YORK — This was one government stimulus plan that yielded quick results. Maybe too quick. Far more drivers signed up for the "cash for clunkers" program than anyone thought, overwhelming sh...
NEW YORK — This was one government stimulus plan that yielded quick results. Maybe too quick. Far more drivers signed up for the "cash for clunkers" program than anyone thought, overwhelming sh...
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- ranch111 I'm a Fan of ranch111 7 fans permalink
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How is using more oil resources to build new cars help the environment? We should be looking a phasing out automobiles, not building more of them.

It never fails. Shiny baubles trump common sense every single time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 08/01/2009
- retroredux I'm a Fan of retroredux 63 fans permalink
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Ranch111-
You "no car America" sounds wonderful-but where is this mountain of money going to come from to put mass transit in every town in America, large and small?

It's one thing to say "no cars" but in the real world practical matters have to be looked at. Huge chunks of our populace live where there is no mass transit at all and homes and business are miles apart. What do you suggest these folks do? Walk 15 miles to the nearest store? Ride a bike? Great for some but not the vast majority of Americans.

Until more mass transit is introduced-having vehicles with better fuel economy, and demanding more, modest priced plug ins and hybrids should be our priority for the present.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:20 PM on 08/01/2009
- ranch111 I'm a Fan of ranch111 7 fans permalink
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I guess I was thinking too boldly. Sorry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 08/01/2009
- retroredux I'm a Fan of retroredux 63 fans permalink
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All the naysayers can spout is "free money" and "I get to pay at no advantage to me"

was it "free money" to use MY taxes to give you and your family educations?

was it "free money" when MY taxes paid for you family to get free vaccinations & flu shots?

I didn't agree with the wars, so was it "free money" to take MY tax money and my childs future to pay for 2 unwinable wars?

So, that old person getting Medicare is not your family member, so should their benefits be taken away, cause it doesn't "benefit" you personally?

Are you also against your tax dollars rebuilding towns other than yours hit by disaster-cause it's NOT your town, so why should you give a da mn?

MY taxes pay to have police protection for all your protests-like tea baggers, anti abortion, and anti gay. OK, that certainly didn't benefit me directly, so I want my tax money spent on this given back! I don't want MY children to continue paying on bills made to protect you and your ha te speech.

This is what DEMOCRACY is folks. We all put in for the betterment of the whole.
To those who say-I make too much to get a benefit from this or that program. Instead of bit@hing why not be THANKFUL that you're doing OK and that we live in a country where if a citizen needs help, for the most part, help is there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 08/01/2009
- ranch111 I'm a Fan of ranch111 7 fans permalink
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There sure is...

Sorta like a guy I work with at a contract job. He had all three of his kids with govt. assistance years ago. He told me that it was "free", and that, "why not use it if it's free?" He wanted me to take a look at SHCIP for my child. I currently pay for private insurance and don't qualify. I save and have too much money.

He took out a personal loan, lied about its purpose, and then used it for a down payment for a house he and his wife could not afford. He's currently taking advantage of Obama's mortgage bailout program. After negotiating with his new mortgage holder, Bank of America, they have told him that he now has a 40 year mortgage. He's been paying on the house for 5 years on a 30 yr note. So now he essentially has a 45 year mortgage. He told me that he doesn't feel like he's getting a fair shake on the deal. I don't see him being able to keep his house.

He thinks that getting a couple of % points off of his 11% car loan would help, too.

The tax dollars that were spent to help this guy and his wife have not really helped them. In effect, they've come to depend on tax dollars to subsidize a lifestyle that they cannot afford and they've learned nothing about saving money for a rainy day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:20 PM on 08/01/2009
- sheisme I'm a Fan of sheisme 4 fans permalink

I voted for Obama for healthcare, not programs like this which make it harder to find the money for healthcare. The only people I know who are using this program are folks who don't need the money in the first place ... if you can afford a new car, you don't need government help to buy one. The rest of us "poor folks" are still stuck buying used vehicles that are hard on gas. What a joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 08/01/2009
- retroredux I'm a Fan of retroredux 63 fans permalink
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you assumption that people who can afford a new can don't need help is odd. So, if you used a coupon at the store on a can of peas-but in actuality you could afford the whole cost of the peas so therefore you shouldn't use the coupon?

People do things like use rebates and coupons, go to matinees and check out books from the library instead of buying them so they can save money. Being thrifty is not a crime. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you shouldn't use a discount if it's offered-no matter what your income.

Definition of Incentive: A benefit or consideration, financial or otherwise, given to induce specific action.

The "incentive" is to motivate car owners who have these high mileage, old cars to get rid of them as they pollute and buy a new, fuel efficient car instead.

No one has to drive a used car, that is (in your words)-"hard on gas"-there are many fuel efficient used vehicles out there-you just have to know where to look and research what fuel efficient cars are out there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 08/01/2009
- KCDurling I'm a Fan of KCDurling 2 fans permalink
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Thanks Prez Obama! Hubby and I will be trading in our "clunker" for a 2010 Equinox!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:55 PM on 08/01/2009
- ranch111 I'm a Fan of ranch111 7 fans permalink
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Yay! The engine for your shiny new hunk of crap was made in China!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:34 PM on 08/01/2009
- retroredux I'm a Fan of retroredux 63 fans permalink
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Ranch-
so what do you drive?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 08/01/2009
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I'm not buying it - the whole program is wrongheaded - And I don't understand when you try to make a reasoned argument here your posts get deleted. So once again I have to outsource my comment.
http://jischinger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/obamas-clunker-program

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 08/01/2009
- tralfas I'm a Fan of tralfas 11 fans permalink

Cash for clunkers is a joke. It proves that gov't has no forecasting or management ability. It also proves the obvious that if you give away money, people will take it. Gee, what a success. Ultimately, this program saddles the tax payers with more debt and takes perfectly good cars off the roads, which hurts people that need cheap transportation not a car payment with a $4,500 discount. It also hurts people who don't take the gov't largess, but will have more difficulty finding a spare part since the cars are scrapped. It also hurts charities that rely on car donations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 08/01/2009
- tralfas I'm a Fan of tralfas 11 fans permalink

This is a perfect example of what will happen under the public option. Of course this program is a "success," it is giving away money. If I set up a lemonade stand and handed out $100 bills, it too would be a success. If the gov't wants to suggest it can handle large programs, it needs to do a little bit more planning and forecasting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 08/01/2009

the cash for clunkers program is from Germany I saw it on BBC news

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 08/01/2009
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Amazing how the Right works hard to put negative spin on everything. Fact is, Cash for Clunkers was extremely more successful than anyone anticipated which is incredibly good for auto sales stimulation. Proves that President Obama's idea was ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT ! Ask the car dealers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 08/01/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

a government subsidy that encourages debt....how is that a good thing....what else can we subsidize...the rv industry....the power boat industry....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 08/01/2009
- retroredux I'm a Fan of retroredux 63 fans permalink
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don't you use your power boat to get to work Mojo? I bet you drive your kids to school in your RV too. Oh, you are so witty. Who knew you were so erudite. I'm about to bust a gut.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 08/01/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

so what happens when 50 million people rush out to the doctor in the first week after healthcare for all is approved and the sheer volume causes so many problems that the plan is scrapped in the next election....why not subsidize the motorcycle industry...because bikes get 40 or 50 miles to the gallon and when gas went to 4 dollars a gallon sales went through the roof....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 08/01/2009
- Jase84 I'm a Fan of Jase84 70 fans permalink

You fail at logic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 08/01/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

you failed at life....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 PM on 08/01/2009
- retroredux I'm a Fan of retroredux 63 fans permalink
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don't worry Mojo-we all promise to hold back for a few months so all you Republicans can get to use the dentists first to have your five remaining teeth fixed.

See we're already working together.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 08/01/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

i love libs...nothing but personal attacks....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 08/01/2009
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Good to see the US following the examples of Germany and France. Wonder what else could be copied?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 08/01/2009
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The dealerships were pushing this out of greed. They want a free handout from the government.

Now they're accusing the Obama Administration of ending the program, hurting them financially. But they'll be the first standing in line with their tin cups out when the Obama Administration and Congress reinstate the program.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 08/01/2009

So when a Govt agency is set up to help people you're going to criticize those who utilize the program - is this how health care is going to work as well?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 08/01/2009
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The program was set up to: (1) help people buy new cars to replace their clunkers; and (2) help the environment by elminating polluting gas guzzlers from the road.

Any benefits to Detroit and their chains of greedy dealerships are purely incidental. That is not the reason the program was set up.

It's funny how whenever the government is giving a handout, Big Business is always there with its hands extended complaining that the money is not enough.

Whenever the government wants to help average citizens, like in the Congressionally proposed health care plan, Big Business is also there, but criticizing those plans and telling the American public it's "socialism" and that people don't deserve it.

Big Business -- Corporate America -- has two standards and will always have two standards. One standard for itself -- greed and entitlement. One standard for the American people -- cries of "socialism" and schemes to deny.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 08/01/2009
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System shutdown because of too much traffic. That is a success in most business models.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 08/01/2009

And to think that many of the conservatives/GOP voted against the renewal of this program in the House yesterday

This says volumes about whether they are actually interested in stimulating this economy

Isn't this what the GOP champions as good "stimulus"....tax credits for small businesses (which are the car dealers)

I am beginning to think that the GOP wants our economy to remain depressed just for political advantage

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 08/01/2009
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The 2 billion increase was Bi Partisan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 08/01/2009

Quite a few conservative were against it....said it was wasteful

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 08/01/2009
- AdV2k1 I'm a Fan of AdV2k1 6 fans permalink
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starting to think that ??

They want to attach the stench to Obama and Democrats like it's our fault .

When they are not in control they want the world to end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/01/2009
- cabgx2 I'm a Fan of cabgx2 5 fans permalink
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This is a program set up by politicians to help car salesman. How could it go wrong?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 08/01/2009
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Anything that gets people to start buying again is good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 08/01/2009
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