Episcopal Church Nominates 2 Openly Gay Priests As Bishops

LOS ANGELES — An openly gay priest and an openly lesbian priest are among six nominees for assistant bishop positions in the Episcopal Church's Diocese of Los Angeles.

The church announced Sunday that Rev. John L. Kirkley of San Francisco and Rev. Canon Mary Douglas Glasspool of Maryland, along with four others, will be up for election in December by lay members and clergy.

The vote will be a test of new church legislation passed at July's general convention in Anaheim that repeals a de facto ban on consecrating openly gay bishops.

In 2003, the election of openly gay bishop Rev. V. Gene Robinson prompted four dioceses and numerous parishes to leave the denomination, which claims 2.1 million members in the U.S.

Comments

[newtom]

I knew this discussion would look like this before I even clicked to the link.

Why is it that some (please note, I did NOT say all) believers think that they are 100% totally and completely correct and that ANY other interpretation or understanding is just as incorrect? According to this logic, NONE of them is right because they all think everyone else is wrong.

See how that doesn't make any sense?

PERHAPS we don't understand everything there is to understand. Perhaps humans have misinterpreted or misunderstood a few details. Maybe a supreme being wouldn't be all that easy to figure out!!!

What I remember from my religious upbringing (long ago abandoned) is that nobody can completely understand god. But there are far too many people who claim that they know exactly what god is thinking and what he meant by every word recorded in the bible. They also happen to beleive that everyone else (including other believers) is wrong.

It seems to me that pretentious attitude is the worse sin of all.

[Masarov]

The bishops happen to be gay. Why the fuss? Their gender and sex are no one's business. Gays should not be forced into hiding (the so-called bedroom when the dining room table would do as well). Only a bigot would think that the public sphere belongs only to heterosexuals.

[ignoranceequalsfear]

When, oh when, can we retire the phrase "Openly Gay"?????

I know... when people stop living in the so-called closet.

How about people scr*w who they want and we move beyond labels at all.
That's probably too radical for even a majority of HuffPosters. I hope that's not true though...

[zepfan81]

Gay Christians make about as much sense as Jewish Nazis and Blacks Klansmen.

[kwinter]

I agree .... but I would say the same for Female Xians and African American Xians.
It's kind of like 'Battered Wife Syndrome'.

[ignoranceequalsfear]

Bingo!

[JohnFromCensornati]

I don't get the Log Cabin Xians either.

[PlaceboStudman]

Part 1 (thanks to the band XTC)

Dear god,
Hope you got the letter,
And I pray you can make it better down here.
I dont mean a big reduction in the price of beer,
But all the people that you made in your image,
See them starving on their feet,
cause they dont get enough to eat

From god,
I cant believe in you.

Dear god,
Sorry to disturb you,
But I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,
And all the people that you made in your image,
See them fighting in the street,
cause they cant make opinions meet,
About god,
I cant believe in you.

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!

[kwinter]

Great song, I like Sarah MClaughlin's version too!

[PlaceboStudman]

I hope part 2, the rest of the song gets posted

[Realitylost]

Whenever Christian start talking about eternal salvation it makes me laugh.

Let's say for the moment that they are right. The bible is true, God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, and all of it. The way they described heaven in Church when I was a kid kind of made it sound like an eternity of being in church, not my idea of paradise. Besides that, you would be spending eternity with the majority of the most uptight boring people that ever existed.

Now lets look at hell. Eternal suffering aside; all my friends would be there along with just about everyone who could make eternity entertaining. I mean, think about it.

Heaven: Evemtually Your going to spend eternity with Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Schuler, and others.

Hell: Jim Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, George Carlin, Kurt Cobain, and an endless list of people worth partying with.

I know which I would choose.

Disclaimer: The names of those going to Hell was pure hypothetical I in no way believe any of those listed deserved to go to hell, quite the opposite.
The names of those going to Heaven are also purely hypothetical, I in no way believe any of those listed deserve to go to heaven.

[balrog60]

God designed hell to be MORE enjoyable than heaven. do you really think that? REALLY??

just like with homosexuality, where it is never condoned or spoken of (in the Bible) as anything but a sinful act, the same applies to hell. it is NEVER spoken of as anything but a terrible place. "lake of fire", "eternal agony", "torment", etc....

check out Luke 16:19-31 for a small idea of what hell will be like.

you better party hard now, because i don't think you'll be doing that later on...

[Treehuggindirtworshiper]

Well I don't believe anybody is going to hell. I have been taught that God loves me more than I can imagine. I love my daughter more than anything. I would never condem her to a life of misery no matter what she believed or did. So I don't believe God is going to send anyone to hell. That is why he manifested as Jesus and made himself a sacrifice for all of humanity.

[chessman]

Dr. Schuler seems like a genuinely kind man. Don't know why he's on the questionable list. The others, I could see you point which is why I thank God I don't have the power to determine. He truly is a merciful God.

One point ... heaven won't be like your church. It'll be a good church :-)!!!

Jeremy Camp -

There will be a day with no more tears, no more pain, and no more fears
There will be a day when the burdens of this place, will be no more,
We'll see Jesus face to face
But until that day, we'll hold on to you always

That's church and I look forward to it with all my heart.

[Realitylost]

Your probably right, about Dr. Schuler, I have never heard a bad thing about him. His name just popped into my head when I was thinking of famous religous figures.

[motoGpifupleez]

You are completely wrong. According to 'South Park', only morman's and Saddam Hussein will be in heaven, and I'll take their word over any one claiming they actually talked to a deity.

[newtom]

Frankly, I think a LOT of religious people (some of whom you mention) wouldn't make it to heaven (if there is one) because they have mis-represented the true message.

[Abd-ul-Latif]

Christians are so amusing. They re-invent their religion whenever it suits them. Most of them don't really believe anything at all, in their heart of hearts. Just some vague notions of "spirituality." And those who actually DO really believe in Christianity, generally ascribe notions to Jesus (such as capitalism or democracy or some special affection for the United States of America) that Jesus (aleihi salam) himself never endorsed in any way. You've got your gay-loving Christians and you've got your capitalism-loving Christians; neither group seems to care at all about what Jesus actually said or thought.

[PlaceboStudman]

That's what happens when there is absolutely no scientific empirical evidence to support one's beliefs. Eventually, in another 5 millenia or so, organized reliigion will splinter so much that there is no longer a need for organized religion, and each individual's relationship with the unknown forces of the universe will be wholly unique to them, and be a personal private matter.

as it should be

[kwinter]

-- "neither group seems to care at all about what Jesus actually said or thought"--

Maybe that's because nobody KNOWS "what Jesus actually said or thought".
No one really even KNOWS, if he ever really existed or not.

[SelenicMagick]

SHhhhhhhhh THEY don't want to admit that there's NO historical evidence or records of Jesus having existed that don't reference the bible for "proof" of his existence.

[LorettaSingbiel]

I could believe Jesus existed as a human ... not a deity. And if he helped those less fortunate among us ... he's a man I could admire.

[arugularose]

You should come to my church. We care, talk, and think a lot about what jesus said or thought both as reflected in the bible and as reflected in biblical scholarship. Not sure why capitalists and pro-America Christians are constructed here as the only "real" believers but anyways . . . I'm sorry that your experience of christianity has been so superficial-- what I LOVE about the episcopal church is precisely that it is so intellectually and spiritually committed-- I love the episcopal church!

[Cyfarchiadau]

Well said arugularose.~ Kuddos!

[Realitylost]

I take it you are a Moslem? Considering how many different sects there are of Islam your religion is not anymore stable than Christianity.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Wa salaam alakum.

Other religions also have their share of people who will twist the teachings of their faiths to suit their *political* agendas. Islam is afflicted with Wahhabists, while Buddhism is afflicted with Ohm Shin Rikkyu (among others). Certain extremist sects of Judaism apparently are the driving forces behind the settlement movement afflicting the West Bank and Gaza.

Like any religious tradition, Christianity must be studied in context. For example:

http://www.guerrillascholar.com/cogito/?p=78

Honest Christians heed the words of Jesus,

"It is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter The Kingdom of Heaven!"

"Woe unto the rich, woe unto the rich, for I say unto you, they have their reward."

Jesus was remarkably silent on gays, but quite clear on divorce, the sins of the rich, and quite clearly on the subject of *hypocrisy.*

END PART I

[jlarue]

I am Episcopalian and I love my church! Hooray for Episcopalians!

[TomFox]

me too .... woo hooo.... we welcome ALL that are ignored by the "righteous"

[Cyfarchiadau]

Me too~ Funny TomFox.

[Nacio]

Are any of you willing to put your Eternal Salvavtion on the line to think that God has changed His mind when He said that this is an abomination unto Him? He changes not.

[PlaceboStudman]

Why should we care what an unproveable invisible man in the sky thinks or believes, when we've got enough problems with very real in your face humans right here on Earth?

[Abd-ul-Latif]

Who ever said that God is a man, or is in the sky? You're thinking of paganism, maybe. An any rate, your ignorance is showing.

[chessman]

Despite Abdul Latif, your questions are legitimate and your concerns true. I would say though that He is not invisible and His skyness is somewhat metaphorical since He said "Lo, I am with you always. Even unto the end of the earth." If you really want to see him, really look. He can be found.

[k6007]

We're going to have to get rid of any priests that eat shellfish, as well.

[PlaceboStudman]

or play or have ever played football (that dead pig skin thing)

[Reito Hikari]

The better question is... are you going to base your whole life on some book that someone made up, or are you going to live a life that you seem fit for yourself and the society?

[arugularose]

God isn't a "He." God existed before gender existed.

[coldweathergirl]

But didn't ''god" create man in his own image? If you want to believe anything the bible says, that is... God didn't exist before man created him, her, it, whatever.

[chessman]

His incarnation is a He. But God the Father is Spirit. Weird though, He does refer to himself in the masculine.

[Treehuggindirtworshiper]

The "abomination" was heterosextuals committing homosexual acts.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Actually, it's even more nuanced than that:

http://www.guerrillascholar.com/cogito/?p=78

Amazing what insights and understanding real scholarship will bestow.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[Hazelnut]

First of all, I want to say this is good news.
Secondly, that some of the narrow and h*ate filled comments made here are very sad, indeed.
Most of all though, I want to say that I have read through all the posts, and once again I am amazed at some of the knowledgeable people who come here to post comments. I feel very humbled and totally out of my league even offering my opinion at all. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to come here and share their vast knowledge of history with all of us, I have learned a great deal here today!

[PlaceboStudman]

Welcome. and dont be afraid to add in your 2 cents, or $2.50 for that matter.

[SelenicMagick]

2 cents or a buck-two-n­inety-five­... it's still valuable perspective so don't be afraid to give your opinion.

[elsie900]

Post on, baby. Never underestimate the power of a civilized comment.

I love my Huffpo, but as a liberal Christian, I get so sick and tired of feeling caught in the middle between attacks from close-minded Christians on gays, and attacks from close-minded liberals on Christians. The one thing they have in common is CLOSE-MINDEDNESS.

If I could convince one fire-breathing Christian that being gay doesn't mean you hate God and want to destroy the world, and one fire-breathing atheist that Christianity is about humbling oneself, not about hatred, I'd feel like I'd done a good day's work. Make that a life's work. But too many folks of all different persuasions are simply in love the sound of their own voice proclaiming their superiority.

So thank you very much for your two cents.

[mnyobpres]

And, if we are kicking the BIBLE to the curb, then I WANT 2 WIVES... ultimate pleasure, here I come.

[Realitylost]

You don't have to kick the bible to the curb for that, plenty of those biblical "heroes" had multiple wives.

I don't know why anyone would want that though, I can barely keep up with the one wife I got now.

[k6007]

Uh, multiple wives were condoned in the bibble.

[SelenicMagick]

Just make sure that they get along... otherwise you're gonna have open warfare.

[kwinter]

If you want multiple wives, then stick with the Buybull!

Here's the biblical explanation of 'Traditional Marriage' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

Watch and learn!

[k6007]

"buybull"?

I like it.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Um, Islamic tradition will allow you up to four (4) wives, as long as you treat them equally.

Why limit yourself, citizen?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[sparky73]

That is great progress but until there are equal rights for transgender (post and pre-op) people, it seems a little underwhelming.

[PlaceboStudman]

and this is where the heinous insideous aspect of many religions come in. Even the ones who claim to be gay friendly still have a hard time distinguishing gender identity from sexual orientation. It all goes back to the same long ago disproven meme that sexuality is about behaviors and not about drives, feelings and desires, which of course is what sexuality is. If more people would start to respect science, logic and rational though, and not be so bound like slaves to ideology, then maybe, just maybe in a few thousand years, people will realize that gender identity is just as much an immutable characteristic as sexual orientation, race, hair color, eye color, dominant handedness, etc

[LorettaSingbiel]

Hermaphrodites are born with BOTH female & male internal & external reproductive organs. Shoots the "choice" theory all to he//, doesn't it?!

[Treehuggindirtworshiper]

Integrity is a group within the ECUSA that is working for the inclusion of GLBT person in all the sacrements of the church.

Integrityusa.org

[mnyobpres]

Priest SHOULD NOT be GAY...they don't represent that life style and if they do, they should resign.

It is against the very fabric of the church beliefs - otherwise, the church should just close their doors and be and do WHATEVER!.... What is the point in being a priest and honoring the beliefs that have lasted so many years.

THIS IS CRAZY!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!! - Jesus did have to die to forgive SINS...because, so many have SINNED.

[SelenicMagick]

Gee... what orientation would you call the Catholic priests that molested hundreds if not thousands of alter boys down through the years?

I'm guessing they were and are GAY since Catholic priests are MALE and until recently alter boys were MALE as well.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Being gay is an *orientation.* A pedophile is a different creature entirely, and any first semester Psychology student knows this.

Conflating gays with pedophiles has always been among the favorite tactics of those who would deny human rights to our fellow Americans on the basis of sexual orientation.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[Realitylost]

Just because a belief is old, does not make it right.

[k6007]

What about eating shell fish? That's a sin. Adulterers are supposed to be stoned, not forgiven! sanford, ensign, lets go!

[Realitylost]

Obviously K6007 you didn't read the scripture close enough,

only FEMALE adulterers were stoned in the bible.

[balrog60]

look a little closer at what Jesus taught and you'll see that he always taught forgiveness, not persecution. remember the woman who was "caught in the act of adultery" and about to be stoned? she was NOT stoned, but forgiven.

the Apostle Paul witnessed the stoning of the first martyr, Stephen. He regretted it and was ashamed of it. He was also grateful for the forgivensss he was given thru Jesus's death and resurrection.

we are taught to strive to live a righteous life. of course nobody is perfect and many sins are difficult to overcome. but we shouldn't give up. and we definitely should not change the Word of God just because it's difficult.

[newtom]

Don't forget about all the money to be made selling people from other lands as slaves!!!

[lydiajean]

These are only nominations.

[PlaceboStudman]

even nominations show progress. These nominations would be unheard of even 10 years ago

[Bitsko]

Yep.

[redraymonds]

this is a sad day, how can a priest be gay, its against the very fabric of the church beliefs

[Torsin]

You need to come out of the closet.

[SelenicMagick]

~Blinks~

Catholics have been ordaining gay priests for lo these last 2000 years (roughly).

[Srithanatos]

Of course there were no gay priests, bishops, popes, etc., prior to the activities of the Episcopal Church. Nope. All those men were red-blooded heterosexuals, especially the celibate ones.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Being gay is a sexual orientation; it is not the same thing as a Pedophile.

Any first semester student of Psychology knows the dramatic differences between the two, and will not conflate them as you and others have on this forum.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

[Bitsko]

You make no sense at all ever, anytime, anywhere.

[ILoveTexas]

They must think they are above God's law.

[Srithanatos]

Or they believe that they are the supreme arbiters of God's law, such as yourself.

[BlackWidowPilot]

You mean like that cult "The Family" whose elite members inhabit a house on C Street?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant