FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

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CALVIN WOODWARD | 08/19/09 09:43 PM | AP

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Constituents of Congressman Tom Perriello, D-Va., holds signs as they listen to the congressman during a town hall meeting on Health Care at the Fluvanna Middle School in Fork Union, Va., Monday, Aug. 17, 2009. Perriello is one of three dozen Democratic Freshmen that have been thrown into the center of one of the most contentious policy debates in years. (AP Photo/Steve Helber)

WASHINGTON — The judgment is harsh in a new poll that finds Americans worried about the government taking over health insurance, cutting off treatment to the elderly and giving coverage to illegal immigrants. Harsh, but not based on facts.

President Barack Obama's lack of a detailed plan for overhauling health care is letting critics fill in the blanks in the public's mind. In reality, Washington is not working on "death panels" or nationalization of health care.

To be sure, presenting Congress and the country with the nuts and bolts of a revamped system of health insurance is no guarantee of success for a president – just ask Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton. Their famous flop was demonized, too. After all, the devil does lurk in details.

It can also lurk in generalities, it seems.

Obama is promoting his changes in something of a vacuum, laying out principles, goals and broad avenues, some of which he's open to amending. As lawmakers sweat the nitty gritty, he's doing a lot of listening, and he's getting an earful.

A new NBC News poll suggests some of the myths and partial truths about the plans under consideration are taking hold.

Most respondents said the effort is likely to lead to a "government takeover of the health care system" and to public insurance for illegal immigrants. Half said it will probably result in taxpayers paying for abortions and nearly that many expected the government will end up with the power to decide when treatment should stop for old people.

A look at each of those points:

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THE POLL: 45 percent said it's likely the government will decide when to stop care for the elderly; 50 percent said it's not likely.

THE FACTS: Nothing being debated in Washington would give the government such authority. Critics have twisted a provision in a House bill that would direct Medicare to pay for counseling sessions about end-of-life care, living wills, hospices and the like if a patient wants such consultations with a doctor. They have said, incorrectly, that the elderly would be required to have these sessions.

House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio said such counseling "may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia."

The bill would prohibit coverage of counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option.

Republican Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia, who has been a proponent of coverage for end-of-life counseling under Medicare, said such sessions are a voluntary benefit, strictly between doctor and patient, and it was "nuts" to think death panels are looming or euthanasia is part of the equation.

But as fellow conservatives stepped up criticism of the provision, he backed away from his defense of it.

___

THE POLL: 55 percent expect the overhaul will give coverage to illegal immigrants; 34 percent don't.

THE FACTS: The proposals being negotiated do not provide coverage for illegal immigrants.

___

THE POLL: 54 percent said the overhaul will lead to a government takeover of health care; 39 percent disagree.

THE FACTS: Obama is not proposing a single-payer system in which the government covers everyone, like in Canada or some European countries. He says that direction is not right for the U.S. The proposals being negotiated do not go there.

At issue is a proposed "exchange" or "marketplace" in which a new government plan would be one option for people who aren't covered at work or whose job coverage is too expensive. The exchange would offer some private plans as well as the public one, all of them required to offer certain basic benefits.

That's a long way from a government takeover. But when Obama tells people they can just continue with the plans they have now if they are happy with them, that can't be taken at face value, either. Tax provisions could end up making it cheaper for some employers to pay a fee to end their health coverage, nudging some patients into a public plan with different doctors and benefits. Over time, critics fear, the public plan could squeeze private insurers out of business because they would not be able to compete with the federal government.

It's unclear now whether Obama is committed to the public option. He described it recently as "just one sliver" of health reform, suggesting it was expendable if lawmakers could agree on another way to expand affordable coverage. Now the White House is emphasizing his strong support for it.

___

THE POLL: 50 percent expect taxpayer dollars will be used to pay for abortions; 37 percent don't.

THE FACTS: The House version of legislation would allow coverage for abortion in the public plan. But the procedure would be paid for with dollars from beneficiary premiums, not from federal funds. Likewise, private plans in the new insurance exchange could opt to cover abortion, but no federal subsidies would be used to pay for the procedure.

Opponents say the prohibition on federal money for the procedure is merely a bookkeeping trick and what matters is that Washington would allow abortion to be covered under government-subsidized insurance.

Obama has stated that the U.S. should continue its tradition of "not financing abortions as part of government-funded health care." Current laws prohibiting public financing of abortion would stay on the books.

Yet abortion guidelines are not yet clear for the government-supervised insurance exchange. There is strong sentiment in Congress on both sides of the issue.

___

The poll of 805 people was taken Aug. 15-17 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

WASHINGTON — The judgment is harsh in a new poll that finds Americans worried about the government taking over health insurance, cutting off treatment to the elderly and giving coverage to illeg...
WASHINGTON — The judgment is harsh in a new poll that finds Americans worried about the government taking over health insurance, cutting off treatment to the elderly and giving coverage to illeg...
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pkafin
Very little of what you wrote applies to the current situation.

The Dems have not imploded. Rather they wasted some time trying to find some bipartisan support for one of their long... more >>

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This Government run health care did not work for Bill and Hillary. When are they just going to give it up? Work on something that really needs all their attention- like the ECONOMY STUPID. Fix the problems there and get the people back to work. We voted for change and I guess we should be happy we still have some in our pockets. Give them time and we won't have that either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:24 PM on 09/05/2009
- alohaz I'm a Fan of alohaz 15 fans permalink
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If you haven't seen this article from the Washington Post, please give it a quick read. The Republicans have spun so many lies about the health care bill. Why? To scare you. The healthcare industry is very much against this proposal. Think about this debate in terms of who is opposing it if you like. The healthcare insurance is against it. Why? They won't make as many billions as they do now. The other segment of the population, the teabaggers, are very confused evidenced by their inability to truly express their misgivings other than to say it is Socialism. Well guess what Socialism is here. Social security, medicare, medicaid. They have no need for facts, or the truth because these pesky things get in the way. From the very deep well of conservative paranoia springs an enormous amount of propaganda that has no basis in reality. The birth-baggers do not even know what they are screaming about. Talking points have clearly been fed to them and they seem to live primarily in a world of fear and fantasy. Please GET THE FACTS as this may be the most important piece of legislation in your life time. www.factcheck.org

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080603854.html?hpid=topnews

If you're inclined to continue reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/opinion/23sun1.html

and finally,
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 08/23/2009
- billhodges I'm a Fan of billhodges 215 fans permalink
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The Death Book for Veterans
Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society.

By JIM TOWEY
If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort with end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he might begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your Choices."

Who is the primary author of this workbook? Dr. Robert Pearlman, chief of ethics evaluation for the center, a man who in 1996 advocated for physician-assisted suicide in Vacco v. Quill before the U.S. Supreme Court and is known for his support of health-care rationing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 PM on 08/21/2009
- LCLA I'm a Fan of LCLA 22 fans permalink
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Before you get all worked up by this article by a Bush bureaucrat in the formerly respectable Wall Street Journal (now owned by Australian tycoon, Rupert Murdoch, owner of Faux News and lots of other right wing outlets), try looking at Your Life, Your Choices itself. I just did.
You can find the actual document at http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf
The booklet carefully and respectfully guides you through how to make a living will so your choices will be respected and not subverted by some "well-meaning" relative, administrator or medical person. It reviews a number of serious medical conditions and situations and gives the pros and cons of many procedures.
I suppose for some people, even talking about choices is anathema and think their choices should over-rule yours, but most of us do have some ideas about how we want to be treated and would like to have our choices respected. This is a good publication which does a good job helping those who want some guidance through the maze of situations, conditions and regulations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 08/21/2009

The only reason there is a problem with the health care/insurance reform bill is that NOBODY in Washington will take the alleged myths and connect it to a page number which proves it to be wrong.
AND if I were the President of the U.S. I would put on either a talk radio show or like the History channel a whole episode devoted to sitting down reading the whole darn bill point by point WITH the American people so they know just what really is in it. AND I would make it illegal for Anyone to write bills that over 50 pages long. How insulting that we have elected officials voting for major serious issues and to discover they don't even read what they are voting for! And these are the guys who get to vote for their own pay raises and benefits people! What did we let happen to our government???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 08/21/2009
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 43 fans permalink

You are now entering the HuffPo tr0// zone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 08/21/2009
- Arrecho I'm a Fan of Arrecho 63 fans permalink
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Chect the facts for yourselves:

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/deconstructing-rw-lies-hcbill.html

There is a link to go and read the entire Bill also.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 08/21/2009

I'll admit up front that I didnt even click on your link. If you read the text in the link I think it's obvious that you have set us up to read a heavily biased load of....info­?.....that is not remotely representative of the facts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 08/21/2009
- anitaj I'm a Fan of anitaj 8 fans permalink

One of the handy things on the link you did not check out is access to the proposed health care bill itself.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

The site at the primary URL goes on to list arguments against the proposed legislation, cite relevant passages in the bill, and offer responses clearly marked as editorial. This is a refreshing change from pundits who spout opinion as though it were fact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 08/21/2009
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I about died laughing yesterday when I saw an actual photo of actual stupid protesters who didn't know what they were even protesting. they had signs (not just one, but two of these dummies ) that read "Youth in Asia going to kill Granny." Apparently all the people protesting didn't know any better than to tell them the difference. So much for No Child Left Behind. You can take a horse to water , but you can't make them drink. You can try to teach people something, but if they WANT to remain ignorant, ther isn't much you can do for them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 08/21/2009

WHOOSH.

Satire went right past ya.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 08/21/2009

How do you know it was satire? Was it your sign? Maybe the person who made the sign is just an idiot. Just because you find something sublime in a phrase does not mean it was intended that way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 08/21/2009

Care to lay odds on whether the people displaying those sides were "liberal plants"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 08/21/2009

I dont suppose it has occurred to you that those "stupid protesters" were making a joke that you are clearly not clever enough to catch?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 08/21/2009
- Mij13 I'm a Fan of Mij13 64 fans permalink
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Why are Conservatives suddenly so afraid of the free market? The Public Option is just a way for insurance companies to compete and offer the best price for the best health care. But you'd think it was something where the insurance industry had something to hide. It's nothing but capitalism, at it's best!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 08/21/2009

The current market isn't even free as individuals can't purchase an insurance program over state lines. Thus, competition currently isn't what it could or should be. I can't begin to try and deconstruct how misinformed your statement is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 08/21/2009
- Mij13 I'm a Fan of Mij13 64 fans permalink
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But you will try, won't you, please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 08/21/2009
- Arrecho I'm a Fan of Arrecho 63 fans permalink
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Ah, the state line fallacy. Country wide, they are about the same, since the Insurance Industry lobbied heavily to be deregulated and are not affected by the Anti trust laws, therefore they are a monopoly, for practical purposes, with no good alternatives for the consumers across the country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 08/21/2009
- Mij13 I'm a Fan of Mij13 64 fans permalink
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I am not talking about the CURRENT market. Everyone knows what the situation is buying insurance across state lines. That's part of the probem.

Do you have a deconstruction of the present situation with insurance? I thought not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 08/21/2009
- LCLA I'm a Fan of LCLA 22 fans permalink
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The US Constitution reserves to states the right to regulate all those things not reserved for the federal government. Insurance regulation is one of those. Licensing is another. So, the states have 50 separate sets of insurance regulations for their jurisdictions.
In the 1970s after years of pension fund scandals, Congress passed and enacted ERISA to safeguard employment benefits. In the 1980s some bright insurance people realized that if they repackaged insurance policies and sold it as a "self-insured" product owned by the employers, it would fall under the federal ERISA and supercede state regulations. The Supreme Court agreed. So, since then most employer based health insurance (which is most of the total insurance sold) has been regulated by ERISA. The problem with this is that ERISA was never set up as an insurance program and lacks the safeguards that state regulations have crafted over the years. So, the insurance companies exploit this with abusive practices (like excluding coverage, excluding certain healthcare providers, etc.) which would never be allowed under the state regulations.
ERISA does offer the advantage that there is not a cumbersome network of 50 different jusisdictions to wade through. One of the main reasons we need healthcare reform now is to provide some regulatory teeth at the federal level that has been missing since ERISAs enactment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 08/21/2009

I believe the main fear is not competition, but that a public insurer will eventually eliminate competition by driving private insurance out of business.

The President has argued that an inexpensive public option will boost competition, causing private insurers to bring their prices in line with the public option. At the same time, he has stated that the public option will not receive an "unfair" competitive advantage that will drive private insurance out of business (i.e., it will not benefit so greatly from its tax exempt status, tax-base backing, reduced regulation, etc., that private companies cannot compete). If it is the case that private companies can reach these lower price points themselves if given competition, why not simply increase competition in the private markets without implementing the public option at all? Why not just push for the insurance exchange clearinghouse where individuals can buy plans across jurisdictional lines?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 08/21/2009

My previous attempt to post this comment appears to have been rejected by the moderators for some reason...

I believe the issue is not fear of competition, but fear that a public option will eventually reduce competition by driving other options out of business.

The President has said that the public plan would not be put on unequal footing compared to the private insurers (i.e., it would not unduly benefit from its tax-exempt status, taxpayer funds, reduced regulatory oversight, etc.), and therefore private insurance would be able to compete with its lower price points. However, if private insurance can reach these price points in the face of competition, why not simply promote more private sector competition? Why is the public option necessary? Simply push the national insurance clearinghouse, allowing folks to buy across jurisdictional boundaries and achieve the same result.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 08/21/2009
- exhale09 I'm a Fan of exhale09 72 fans permalink
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Many of the anti-reform protesters are in fact Seniors...­who were around during the years of McCarthy politics and the Communist in every corner political cult. Old habits are hard to break.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 08/21/2009

Are you being intentionally obtuse? The "Public Option" is the antithesis of the "free market". An option that can set prices and has the US treasury behind it (and can therefore operate at a loss indefinately) is hardly a "free market" player.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 08/21/2009
- LCLA I'm a Fan of LCLA 22 fans permalink
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"Free market" is a relative term. An absolutely free market without regulation or restraints would be a terrible thing. We need protections for consumers and standards for efficiency. That is a necessary given.
If you doubt this, all you have to do is look back to very recent history of the minimally regulated banking and financial industry which led us into this awful recession.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 08/21/2009

Right! So there won' be any private insurance. Just as there are no private schools, no private colleges and universities, no private hospitals, no private shipping companies.­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 08/21/2009
- Matt7 I'm a Fan of Matt7 241 fans permalink

I just hope the nay saying tr0lls will have the stones to come back and admit when they're wrong, after the legislation is signed and passed.

I won't hold my breath, though. To admit fault or error requires character.

And I'm sure there'll be a NEW "yeah but" by then.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 08/21/2009

Passage of the bill does not mean that those who dont want it were wrong. It just means that the Dems were able to pass it.
However, if you're saying that if it passes and the actual program is successful then yeah, i'll admit I was wrong.
Does that mean i can expect the same from you if:
It doesnt pass
or
It turns out to be a bad idea?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 08/21/2009
- Mij13 I'm a Fan of Mij13 64 fans permalink
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Sorry to burst Sarah Palin's bubble, but she is nothing but a dirty hore. We've seen the way she hores for the insurance industry and tries to scare the bejeezus out of our elderly. What a sad, pathetic excuse for a person she is. Does anyone REALLY like Sarah Palin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 08/21/2009
- billhodges I'm a Fan of billhodges 215 fans permalink
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You are apparently as big a stooge as the avitar you selected.

Why the hate speak? If you don't like someone fine but saying the things you did make you look very shallow and not worth reading IMHO.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.
Ben Franklin

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 PM on 08/21/2009
- PaxEterna I'm a Fan of PaxEterna 67 fans permalink

Stupid, and getting stupider.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 AM on 08/21/2009
- FGW I'm a Fan of FGW 13 fans permalink
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And the GOP still don't have a plan Unbelievable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 AM on 08/21/2009

Yes, we do most certainly have a plan. We plan to see to it that this cockamamie ObamaCare plan goes down like the Titanic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 08/21/2009
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[1] "Conservatives define themselves in terms of what they OPPOSE."
-- George Will

Their plan..? To be AGAINST anything the Dems are FOR..! That is ALWAYS their platform. If the Dems found a cure for cancer, they'd find a way to automatically be against it. No specific rhyme or reason needed -- it's in their nature. [Remember the parable of The Scorpion and the Frog?]

[2] They are a One Trick Pony -- "God, Guns, Gays, Taxes".

"We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates."
-- Dubya; Oct. 2001 [WOW..! TAX Cuts to counter terrorism !?!]

[3] "A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be done for the first time."
-- Alfred Wiggam

"The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.­"
-- G. K. Chesterton

They are obstructionists who want the "status quo" to remain. They figure "let others worry about fixing things"..!

"The strategy of being obstructionist can work or fail...and so far it's working for us."
-- Trent Lott

Howard Fineman On GOP Health Care Strategy: 'Stand On The Sidelines With Their Arms Folded'

"Republicans claim they have a plan -- they don't...th­eir whole strategy is to stand on the sidelines with their arms folded, while the Democrats try to work this thing out. That's their whole strategy."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 08/21/2009
- dogdiva I'm a Fan of dogdiva 16 fans permalink

When is enough information enough? How many times, in how many places is enough debunking of myths? What is the magic number for 'explaining' before someone say "OH! NOW I GET IT!"
People didn't have the facts when this first started due to an in-artful roll out by the Dems and half baked proposals that were abandoned every other day, but seriously are 'facts' really the problem now? If you think they are then I have news for you...NOBO­DY IS LISTENING! The evidence that 'the facts' won't make a difference is all around us every day. The WH and their minions beating this drum all the time is exhausting. When you state a fact and the person you're talking to says "I don't believe you!" over and over, do you think they will believe you the 10th time? I think it's really condescending to keep saying the same thing over again and again to someone who is really wanting you to hear "I DON"T BELIEVE YOU!"

The WH and the Dems need to start again in a different mode with a different language and speak with some passion! Perhaps people don't believe that you' believe its a necessity worth going to the mats. Where would they get that idea?

I'm begging...­don't come out with ever more minutia of policy speak about the policies they rejected already! Show us you think it's as important and as good for the country as the people who need it do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 AM on 08/21/2009
- lady49 I'm a Fan of lady49 8 fans permalink

Here's what I have noticed...­while MSNBC is supportive of truth and the American way.. it's parent company NBC...does not. This is the 4th NBC poll which appears to be objective, but was paid for by right winged money and surveys those same 805 respondents who have identified themselves (way back during the presidential race) as Republican­...

I say Shame on the media for not challenging this poll and DOUBLE SHAME for suggesting that it may be any way reflective of what MOST American's think.....
What happened to testing of the facts,media?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 AM on 08/21/2009
- Arrecho I'm a Fan of Arrecho 63 fans permalink
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You saw the light.

Conveniently, in many areas, MSNBC disappeared from basic cable around march

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 08/21/2009

Sorry to burst your bubble hon, but it is not just MSNBC's poll that shows a large majority do not want ObamaCare, it is EVERY poll. It IS what MOST Americans think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 08/21/2009
- Mij13 I'm a Fan of Mij13 64 fans permalink
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So sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not even aware that the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT HEALTH CARE REFORM WITH A PUBLIC OPTION, hon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 AM on 08/21/2009

sorry to burst your bubble but alot of people are missing these polls or have not been called to be polled or do not have a computer during the election the poll's were wrong
it is not what most American's think it is only what you repub's think, I think it is great you republican's are happy paying for people who don't have insurance. I don't mind paying for my insurance I just want the option to choose my my own plan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 08/21/2009
- Matt7 I'm a Fan of Matt7 241 fans permalink

LOVE your screen name. Great advice. Take it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 08/21/2009
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Sorry to burst your one dimensional bubble but ALL of the MSM is corporate owned and in case you haven't noticed, the corporate agenda rules our country.

Next presumptuous assertion about "MOST Americans?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 08/21/2009
- dogdiva I'm a Fan of dogdiva 16 fans permalink

MSNBC is supportive of MSNBC. Not understanding that is as naive as Fox viewers thinking they are watching a public service instead of something self-serving. MSNBC saw there was money to be made offering some liberal programming to counter Fox. Enjoy what you will from them, but never assume they are looking out for you before themselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 AM on 08/21/2009
- elr50 I'm a Fan of elr50 20 fans permalink

And never assume that FOX is looking out for anyone but the Repuke party and Rupert Murdoch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 08/21/2009
- Mij13 I'm a Fan of Mij13 64 fans permalink
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Aren't you the smart little lady? Grow up and get a life.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 08/21/2009

Even though the Democrats keep insisting the current Obamacare doesn't completely move the country to government run single payer universal health care or socialized medicine we all know that is the lefts' goal. The Democrats including Obama have plainly stated this fact repeatedly, consistently and for decades. And now the left wants the public to forget the Democrats have been advocating single payer and believe Obamacare is not a series of steps to socialized medicine? The left is saying to the public forget what we have been advocating, fighting for and promoting socialized medicine for decades and believe just what we are telling you today. The problem for the Left is the public is able to look ahead and anticipate the overall end results of the Democrats health care strategy, socialized medicine.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 AM on 08/21/2009
- Arrecho I'm a Fan of Arrecho 63 fans permalink
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OOOOhhhh, Socialized medicine, how scary!

I guess you believe in the Boogie man also.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 AM on 08/21/2009

Socialized medicine results in more pain, more suffering, lower quality of life and amazingly higher costs. Not to mention the huge loss of individual freedom and government intrusion into each person's right to choice what they will do with their own body. But other than those few minor issues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 08/21/2009

Obama doesnt have a health care plan and hasnt read HR 3200. You cant go giving speeches on something you know nothing about ala his campaign for election. He is a pathological liar. I urge everyone to read HR 3200 and you will see all this "misinformation" is all in the bill. Hmmmm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 AM on 08/21/2009

Is that another George Soros website?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 08/21/2009
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Really Todd? I suppose YOU have read HR 3200? HAHA .... you have NOT read it. You are repeating nonsense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 08/21/2009
- FGW I'm a Fan of FGW 13 fans permalink
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Republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, equal rights, civil liberties, church- state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, gun policy, campaign-finance reform, the environment
and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident. And I will continue to say it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 08/21/2009

Yes I have read it. Why dont you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 08/21/2009
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