Arthur Frommer: I Won't Go To Arizona If Loaded Guns Are Allowed At Protests

Frommers:

I am not yet certain whether I would advocate a travel boycott by others of the state of Arizona; I want to learn more about Arizona's gun laws and how they compare with those of other states. But I am shocked beyond measure by reports that earlier this week, nearly a dozen persons, including one with an assault rifle strapped about his shoulders and others with pistols in their hands or holsters, were openly congregating outside a hall at which President Obama was speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Read the whole story: Frommers

Comments

[Thirdpower]

From Wiley Publishing:

Mr. Frommer’s posting does not represent an official point of view held by Wiley or the writers and editors who create the Frommer's Travel Guides. As a Company we remain neutral because we respect our rights as individuals to have varying opinions.

Wiley values the good citizens of Arizona, many of whom are our customers, authors, and partners.

[PavePusher]

Well, that's certainly politicall­y... neutral. Bland. Safe.

Nothing like sitting on the fence...

[kencj]

Absolutely avoid AZ -and I live here! This state depends hugely on tourist revenue and thanks to recent changes in state gun laws, tourists should seriously reconsider plans to visit.

First, the Republican-majority legislature and governor recently passed laws allowing concealed weapons in bars and forbidding parking lots to ban firearms in parked cars.

Second, a state law passed in 2006 makes it extremely difficult to prove guilt in a killing based on a self-defense claim. If you’ve been shot dead with no other witnesses, the state has to prove you weren’t a threat to the shooter, which is hard to do when you’re dead.

In fact, the state recently passed a law making this 2006 law retroactive, in order to free Harold Fish, who shot Grant Kuenzli dead while hiking in the Coconino forest, merely for verbally threatening him. See http://tinyurl.com/mmv35w for the details. Although there’s no doubt Fish killed Kuenzli, the state apparently has to prove Kuenzli WASN’T a mortal threat to Fish to convict him or anyone else in that situation.

A few years ago I was hiking in the Superstitions and resting off the trail at the top of a mountain peak when someone came up on the trail, yelled “Yee Haw” and shot a gun into the air four times. It was apparently his way of celebrating making it to the top. I was dreading getting hit by a falling bullet, which killed one person in Phoenix not long ago.

[OdinsEye]

AZ isn't that much different than most states.

[PavePusher]

And since you witnessed a criminaly reckless action, I assume you reported it, yes?

Oh, and, in the Fish case, there was considerably more than "verbal threatening".

But thanks for the mendacity.

[OdinsEye]

Looks like Arthur Frommer won't be travelling to about 35 states in the US, since that many have open carry. Or maybe he'll only go to two states, since 48 allow concealed carry.

[daedelus]

Sounds to me like he'll go to any States that don't condone open or concealed carry at political rallies.

[OdinsEye]

It sounds to me like he wets himself at the thought of people owning firearms and carrying them in the open on public property away from where the event is being held.

[Thirdpower]

"one with an assault rifle "

Nope.

"others with pistols in their hands "

Wrong again.

"were openly congregating outside a hall "

And still no.

They were nowhere near the 'hall' so that even the Secret Service (who were informed beforehand) didn't consider them any threat.

Unless you've lived your entire life in Illinois or Wisconsin or a few select cities like NY or DC, odds are good you've been around people that were carrying firearms legally and you never even knew it.

[Rogan]

That "few select cities" part, is where more people than you can easily imagine, simply have a deep-seated fear of firearms. They've never been somewhere where people carried guns around, or played with guns regularly.

When I went to college in Boston, and later, when I lived in West Hollywood and worked in the film industry, I saw that awfully odd (I think) prejudice, for lack of a better word, manifest over and over: a pure terror of guns, and those who are willing to carry guns. One movie I wrote and worked on, there was a fairly useful guy, in one of the "production assistant" entry-level positions, who ended up so disliked on set that when given an excuse the producers let him go, largely because he offered to get his gun from the car to take care of a rat problem we were having in one of the houses we were shooting in. Those sheltered Hollywood kids were literally shocked and frightened, to hear that someone in the crew had a gun in his car. Really. It's weird.

[jon54]

Hey, th' 1A is absolute! It says "ARMS," not "GUNS!"

I got a absolute right to show up anywhere with a 55-gallon drum o' napalm strapped to me back, fragmentation grenades hangin' off me safari jacket, 'n test-tubes fulla chemical 'n biological weapons jammed into me pockets!

Th' 1A SEZ so, ya pinkos.

Keep 'n bear ARMS, even if I'm a Timmy McVeigh MOE-RON!

[legaleagle 45]

jon54 wrote: "Hey, th' 1A is absolute! It says "ARMS," not "GUNS!""

The 1A says nothing about either arms or guns.

jon54 wrote "Th' 1A SEZ so, ya pinkos".

No it does not. It talks about free press, free speech, free exercise of religion, bars the establishment of religion by the government, has the right to assemble and the right to petition..­. not a word about arms or guns. Howver the 2nd does and the common law definition of arms at the time the 2nd was drafted would not include "chemical 'n biological weapon", fragmentation grenades or napalm... just as the 3A is not about cutting soldiers into 4 equal pieces.

[caseyblab]

A Whole Lotta Stoopid Going On in Arizona. If you are afraid to show up at a protest without a gun, you need to stay home - let the brave people show up.

[ajlanghorn]

[Wendy Johnson]

Man of few words.

[EconPadawan]

Politics and g.uns don't mix. Friends don't let friends carry g.uns to political events.

[CARTERJ]

Good for Arthur Frommer. This madness must stop. Assault weapons are to the Second Amendment what child porn is to the First Amendment.

[Thirdpower]

Can you even define what an 'assault weapon' is and what makes it different from any other firearm?

[alenaspoppa]

I find it quite humorous that many of the wonderful defenders of Arizona posting their comments here and on Mr. Frommer's blog are doing far more damage to Arizona's reputation than Mr. Frommer ever will.

[Azazello]

Hey, what d'you mean "quite humorous" ? You ain't one o'them brokeback mountin' type a dudes , are ye ?

[alenaspoppa]

I know you're trying to be funny, but it's getting less funny with each post.

[tantrictim]

i am gonna miss frommers' guide to johnny mccain's six, err seven, houses
:)

[Azazello]

You don't actually believe that all of the McCains' houses are in Arizona, do you ?

[tantrictim]

i assumed they were, but that is one issue that the press never really delved into much as they were too busy trying to smear obama with the ginned up ayers controversy and rev. wright, suppose gotta give credit to old man mccain for refusing to make the latter an issue in the campaign

[Azazello]

Y'all don't git yer panties in a bunch, now. Long as yer white and conservative, you won't have no problems in Arizony.

[mockley]

I see you're earning your penny-a-post fees today Clem.

[Azazello]

Just tryng to satisfy expectations.

[Kyle Connors]

It really is fun reading all these "Oh my god men carry guns in Arizona, what a no-no". first off Frommer needs to do his research before he turns his liberal nose up at the state of Arizona, do your research on other states that have the same laws before you go off tooting your horn on how "unsafe and unsecured" our state is. Secondly, anyone who entrusts the police completely and totally with your own safety is not in the know about how the real world works. They cannot be there every time something goes wrong. We are allowed to carry guns here because our state government actually recognizes this fact and isnt on some la-la liberal planet dreaming of how society should be. If anyone seriously doesn't want to see all AZ has to offer because its citizens are actually allowed to defend themselves then AZ is too good for you and you should stay at home blindly following the media and kissing Obama's feet

[alenaspoppa]

You, sir, are arguing like an idiot. But you're in good company. You're all arguing against something that Mr. Frommer never asserted.

This is his central point:

"Is there any responsible citizen of the United States who believes that people should carry guns to a public debate or speech? If Ronald Reagan were delivering a political talk in Phoenix, Arizona, would they have felt it was proper for protestors with guns to mill about outside the hall from which he would leave?"

His argument boils down to common sense, which apparently isn't so common. Protection? That's why those people were carrying guns at a health care town hall? Please. Anyone who makes these types of arguments is either ignorant or being willfully disingenuous.

[caseyblab]

Frommer writes for travelers who might not know how threatened the men in Arizona are.

[BeasleysMom]

This exactly is what I mean by decent Americans standing up to these intimi dating th. u.gs. Put the pressure on them. They will never go away, but we need to drive them back underground again where they belong. They are being give far too much credibility.

[PavePusher]

That sound remarkably like a speech from the KKK or Pastor Phelps.

Thanks for the bigotry.

[gwhizz]

I've been to Arizona, Arthur won't be missing anything.

[sailor422]

uh ... grand canyon?