New Zealand Voters: We Want Right To Smack Our Kids

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| 08/21/09 07:33 AM | AP

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WELLINGTON, New Zealand — New Zealanders voted overwhelmingly to overturn a law that prohibits parents from hitting children, according to the results of a nationwide referendum released Friday, but the government says the law is working and won't be changed.

Opponents of the 2007 law claim it is overly intrusive and could turn thousands of good parents into criminals.

They won the right to hold the referendum, which is not binding, by signing up 300,000 eligible voters in support of it. They also drew up the question.

But the ballot measure has drawn widespread criticism, with Prime Minister John Key and main opposition Labour leader Phil Goff refusing to vote. Both said the question was so skewed as to make the results meaningless.

In a postal vote that closed Friday, 87.6 percent of voters responded "No" to the question: "Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offense in New Zealand?"

Just 11.81 percent of voters said "Yes," according to the nation's electoral office. About 54 percent of registered voters cast a ballot. The final result will be declared on Tuesday.

"John Key cannot ignore this result. The attempt by politicians to dismiss the referendum as ambiguous and irrelevant has also been rebuked by the voters," Family First director Bob McCoskrie, who advocated for changing the law.

He said the government should amend the law to allow light smacking and set up a royal commission of inquiry into child abuse.

Key said he would take note of the referendum result but won't change a law "that is working." He would, however, take a proposal to the nation's Cabinet on Monday to reassure parents they will not be criminalized. He did not elaborate on whether the proposal would alter the law – or how its applied.

The law, which Parliament passed overwhelmingly, prohibits parents from using force to discipline their children but gives police the discretion not to prosecute complaints "where the offense is considered so inconsequential there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution." No prosecutions have succeeded under the new law.

Deborah Morris-Travers, a spokeswoman for the Yes-vote coalition, was "unsurprised" by the result.

"We always expected it would go in favor of the no-vote because of the way that the question was phrased – it was loaded and misleading ... suggesting that good parents are being criminalized when in fact they are not," she said.

Police statistics show only serious cases are pursued and parents who lightly smack their children are left alone, she said.

WELLINGTON, New Zealand — New Zealanders voted overwhelmingly to overturn a law that prohibits parents from hitting children, according to the results of a nationwide referendum released Friday,...
WELLINGTON, New Zealand — New Zealanders voted overwhelmingly to overturn a law that prohibits parents from hitting children, according to the results of a nationwide referendum released Friday,...
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- RTIII I'm a Fan of RTIII 86 fans permalink

It is a sure path to a police state to permit laws on the books that substitute police and prosecutor discretion for carefully worded law which makes clear what behavior is intended to be criminal.

In this case, the questioners could have and arguably should have asked;

"Should a smack from a parent to their child, in and of itself, be deemed a criminal offense or clear evidence of a need for investigation into possible child-abuse?"

Law that makes it absolutely clear that a "smack" is insufficient evidence for prosecution to proceed is what's needed here. Some form of other evidence would be needed.

...There are MANY laws on the books with this kind of flaw and which grant far too much "discretion" to police and prosecutors.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 08/28/2009
- USA2Sense I'm a Fan of USA2Sense 5 fans permalink

All parents should have the right to discipline their children - with a loving but firm hand.....

That does not endorse nor encourage child abuse.....

But thanks to the American Bar Assn. and the judges in this country - over the last 2 generations - we have been raising juvenile delinquents - and they have no respect for anything - no responsibility - and no accountabi­lity.....n­o respect for any person, or any property - they believe it is their entitlement to talk back, be defiant, be filthy-mouthed, break laws blatantly - and ignore the laws of this country - and assume that the law is on their side - which it is......it­'s disgusting!

This country should rescind the law that makes parents who discipline their children - the criminal and the bad guy - it's even against the law to wash your kids mouth out with soap - how stupid!!! ...... some of them could sure use it!.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 08/22/2009
- tarowig I'm a Fan of tarowig 4 fans permalink

The issue with the referendum question partly lay in the wording, where it implied light smacking could be a criminal offense - something the Vote No group emphasised in their campaign ads. Examples used included one where a parent could be prosecuted for lightly smacking a child on the hand or buttocks if it were about to cause danger to him/herself or others. This is not the same as beating your child, but the law did not differentiate, it left it up to police discretion to decide if it was worth prosecuting. It is pretty easy to see how this law passed - middle class parents were scared into believing they could be classed as criminals if they tried to discipline their child. Meanwhile the cretins who abuse their children carried on ignoring the law. Sadly you don't hear about these parents until it is too late. More needs too be done in NZ beyond a simple law change.

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/keeping-mum/2009/8/21/half-year-hell-new-zealand/?c_id=1502464

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 PM on 08/22/2009
- LMPE I'm a Fan of LMPE 66 fans permalink

Great. And here I was thinking that NZ was one of the coolest places in the world...an­d then they go and do this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:25 PM on 08/22/2009

It does seem odd to have a law that the police have to decide when it's appropriate to enforce it. If it's too difficult for lawmakers to figure out the right way to go, surely the police aren't in a better position to do so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 08/22/2009
- JeanRR I'm a Fan of JeanRR 9 fans permalink

Children can be disciplined without resorting to physical violence. What does 'a good smack' teach? That might makes right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 08/22/2009
- Balzac I'm a Fan of Balzac 127 fans permalink
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The criteria for intervention in a family should be that the parent is an actual danger to the children. Anything short of actual, proven danger of harm is not sufficient grounds for a government intervention to take away parental custody regardless of the type of discipline.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/22/2009
- RachelMc I'm a Fan of RachelMc 72 fans permalink
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"spanking" your child or "whooping" them is illegal but when the police beat your child it is not...yes police do beat teenagers but if a parent threatens their teenager with punishment or a whooping they can goto jail....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 08/22/2009

Berating a child, broken bone / internal injury or not, is a crime, or should be.
How are we to teach our children a non violent life if we start out with violence?
I raised 3 children without ever beating one. I am not exceptional, what I can accomplish anybody should be able to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 PM on 08/21/2009

I too raised three kids, and they all got spanked. Not slapped in the face or beaten, no broken bones, bruises, but definitely spanked. They're all fine, well adjusted, don't get into trouble, and see my wife and myself whenever they can.

I grew up with a mom that would slap my face in public, scream, yell and threaten me (us) whenever she felt we did anything wrong. She was also abusive (verbally) to my kids. We don't see her anymore.

There's a difference between discipline and abuse. Some people just don't understand the difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 AM on 08/22/2009
- pakaal I'm a Fan of pakaal 32 fans permalink
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I was never spanked nor beaten, and I feel fine and well adjusted as well. There are many ways to discipline a child without hitting them, and I know plenty of people who are quite disciplined without ever having been hit by their parents.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:37 PM on 08/22/2009
- natturnerx I'm a Fan of natturnerx 7 fans permalink
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my grandma raised me & whipped me with switches from the plum trees that grew in our yard whenever i misbehaved. i love her & am grateful for the discipline.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 08/21/2009
- Balzac I'm a Fan of Balzac 127 fans permalink
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In your case, it didn't turn out so well. But my dad's mother used to get the same. She'd send him out to find a switch and he'd bring back a twig. She'd send him out for a bigger one to switch him on the legs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 08/22/2009
- gotborked I'm a Fan of gotborked 42 fans permalink

The law provides the government with overly broad and intrusive power into the family. Trying to excuse the law on the basis that law enforcement can use its discretion--a practice that leaves open vast opportunities for governmental abuse--is negligent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 08/21/2009

Well, here's another issue on which the US lags behind just about every other nations with pretensions of civilization.

Not only is "smacking" children ... no broken bones, no internal injuries .. perfectly legal in all 50 States ... the buttock beating of children with canes and paddles is MANDATED in the public schools of more than 20.

The health care discussion has been going on for days with thousands of opinions for each article on each day ...

On this, by current count TWO

Fascinating!

Perhaps the vast majority of HufPo-er are bachelors and spinsters with no children of their and no interest in those of others. ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 08/21/2009
- RachelMc I'm a Fan of RachelMc 72 fans permalink
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lol...and mandated "beatings" in school in all 50 states is not true btw...i know they stooped that in my school district b4 i got out of grade school.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 08/22/2009
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I gotten beaten with a wooden paddle in 5th grade-- for talking back to the teacher (I don't think I had been rude to the teacher). I had to bend over and hold my ankles while I was paddled in front of the class. It was a big wooden paddle with holes drilled in it. This was in Oklahoma. It was so humiliating and it really hurt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 08/22/2009

Did you ever talk back to a teacher after that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 08/22/2009
- HairFarmer I'm a Fan of HairFarmer 6 fans permalink
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as a formerly spanked and beaten child the effort to overturn the law is ridiculous, Beating , slapping or hitting a child should be a crime... It sure as heck didn't make me a better son, only more rebellious and more likely to question or outright disrespect authority.­.. Hitting a child is the sign of a Bad parenting.­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 PM on 08/21/2009
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In other smack downs -

"Forbes D-Lists Palin"

http://nailinpalinnow.blogspot.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 08/21/2009
- cardineau I'm a Fan of cardineau 36 fans permalink
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Get the law changed ... These verbal assurances mean nothing. Police and bureaucrats, who get promoted on successful prosecutions will use abuse the law if it exists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 08/21/2009
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