Why Israeli Jew Uri Davis Joined Fatah To Save Palestine

The Observer:

Uri Davis is used to denunciations. A "traitor", "scum", "mentally unstable": those are just some of the condemnations that have been posted in the Israeli blogosphere in recent days. As the first person of Jewish origin to be elected to the Revolutionary Council of the Palestinian Fatah movement, an organisation once dominated by Yasser Arafat, Davis has tapped a deep reserve of Israeli resentment. Some have even called for him to be deported.

Read the whole story: The Observer

Comments

[jordanispalestine]

11:40 AM on 08/24/2009

Who is a Palestinian? Ariel Sharon was born in British Mandatory palestine. He's a Palestinian. Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo,Egypt. He was an Egyptian. Palestinians were people of ALL religions until,somehow, the term came to be restricted to only Arabs. So the Christians and Jews who were born there..and THEIR ancestors are.....?????

[MemoryAlpha]

12:39 PM on 08/24/2009

Amused Observation:
Oh so NOW that Israel was founded, three quarters of the native population were run off and replaced by a population born larger in Europe and Russia and (later from elsewhere in the Middle East)... NOW suddenly where you are born matters? It didn't matter to Zionists claims of "Eretz Israel" but NOW it matters. Only now.

Hypocrisy:
Quite staggering, really.

[MemoryAlpha]

12:40 PM on 08/24/2009

Observation:
One notes you continue to flee from the debate further down.

[mazzetta]

01:30 PM on 08/24/2009

does anybody thinks that Israel needed a milion Russian and that they're more rightfull to stay there than Israeli Arabs?

a number of people in the government is confortable with espelling arab citizens and wrap their citizenship, while the are supporting Jews (not only Israeli citizens) settling on Palestinian land (or undoubtedly outside Israel's borders, surely not their's) pretending they're discriminated by the people who're invading and stealing from

this mess is just aimed in "conquering" and occupying a land they know the could never get unless Arabs agree to give them

Bright?

Ok, racist aren't bright, we know...

[Lutfi]

11:34 AM on 08/24/2009

Why we have to have a narrow minded view when it come to the Palestinian- Israel question and they are some person who are on the blog who all they have to do is say thing are not true, lies, misinformation and have them picked up by another person on the same waive length then it become there interpretation of the truth, it does not matter for the fact, or history or the the fact that we are all human being and we all have and need our right as human being , we see the same on health care , the Economy, Education, State Budget, middle east policy, the war in both Iraq, and Afghanistan , our veterans, senior citizen , so please to these persons or group please grow up , I have volunteered in many organization whether it was civic or religious and it did not matter what religious believe, I have always showed respect and received respect, and I'm Palestinian- American who have serviced in the US armed forces, and so are my 4 other brothers . Thank you

[jordanispalestine]

10:52 AM on 08/24/2009

This story is so inane that I'm sure you'll keep it up all week! The guy converted to Islam in 2008! Why not google him and find out before you say a Jew became a member of Fatah (the PLO) who has in its charter the extermination of Israel "in stages" still in it?? You make the National Enquirer look good!

[MemoryAlpha]

11:23 AM on 08/24/2009

Query:
So is being Jewish a religion, or is it an ethnicity?

[jordanispalestine]

11:30 AM on 08/24/2009

Do you deny ANY of the facts in my post? That's all that matters here! Flagged for getting off topic!!!

[jordanispalestine]

11:32 AM on 08/24/2009

Flagged for being off topic! Do you deny ANY of the FACTS in my post??

[jwcmass]

07:12 PM on 08/24/2009

Once again, jordan, by labeling uri Davis as a "Muslim" (gasp!) and, more importantly (to you anyway) as a non-Jew, you are attempting to dehumanize him-- and thus make it easy for you to ignore what he is trying to say.

After all, according to your logic, the man isn't REALLY a Jew, so we can call him a traitor and regard him with the same contempt you regard most (if not all) Muslims or non-Jews.

Get past the labels, and just for once, really LISTEN to what he is tryign to say.

you are free to disagree with him, of course-- but right now you have already dismissed him with a lable without even REALLY LISTENING.

That's literally prejudice in action, thought and word.

[Paul Hackett]

04:24 AM on 08/24/2009

Zionists declared their own statehood in 1948 and generously gave themselves 56% of the land in Palestine. Considering that the number of jews living in Palestine before the 1930s was less than 10% of the population and that the great majority of the Jewish immigration after WW1 was illegal it's hard not to see this as a simple case of land theft.

The behavior of the zionists during 1948 when they massacred Palestinians in their homes and drove them from their villages only confirms this. Many of these massacres (such as the one at Deir Yassin) occurred before Egypt or any other country in the middle east declared War on Israel in response to Israel's declaration of statehood.

Land theft, terrorism and massacre of the native population is no way to start a country. If modern day supporters of Israel were to acknowledge some of these sins of the past then we might be able to get somewhere with the peace process.

[bermanator]

05:33 AM on 08/24/2009

"Land theft, terrorism and massacre of the native population is no way to start a country"

I think you should talk to every country in North and South America, Australia, and New Zealand before you start with tiny Israel, but I'm sure you've already set your priorities.

"when they massacred Palestinians in their homes and drove them from their villages"

Let's compare Deir Yassin to the Hama Massacre, perpetrated by Syria on their own population:

"...Before the attack, the Syrian government called for the city's surrender and warned that anyone remaining in the city would be considered as a rebel. Rifaat al-Assad later boasted of killing 38,000 people. The Syrian Human Rights Committee estimates 30,000 to 40,000 were killed. Most of the old city was completely destroyed, including its palaces, mosques, ancient ruins and the famous Azem Palace mansion..."

Or Black September, perpetrated by the Jordanians:

"King Hussein declared martial law. The next day, Jordanian tanks (the 60th Armored Brigade) attacked the headquarters of Palestinian organizations in Amman; the army also attacked camps in Irbid, Salt, Sweileh, Baq'aa, Wehdat and Zarqa... Arafat later claimed that the Jordanian army killed between 10,000 and 25,000 Palestinians..."

It's time to start putting things in perspective.

[Paul Hackett]

06:47 AM on 08/24/2009

Just a second - North and South America and Australia were colonized occurred HUNDREDS of years ago at a time when 'might makes right' was the way things were done. Israel was spirited into existence after World War 2, a conflict that was largely fought to maintain the integrity of the nation state and to combat ethnic cleansing. It is totally ironic that someone who supposedly supports the Jewish people would employ the ethical argument you have just used. Is that really the best you can do to justify Israel's creation - comparing the eviction of the Palestinians it to barbarous atrocities that occurred in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds? I think you've lost the argument for Israel's legitimacy right there.

And by the way, we're talking about what occurred in ISRAEL, I have no interest in discussing crimes that may or may not have occurred in Syria or any other place since they simply aren't relevant to zionists stealing land from and slaughtering Palestinians.

So again, you're justifying Israel's creation within our lifetimes by pointing out that horrible things also occurred in other places before the modern era? Wow. That is truly pathetic.

And "tiny" Israel is not so tiny from the point of view of the Palestinians. I'm from a country that was a "tiny" part of the British Empire (Ireland), it didn't make our suffering any the less.

[MemoryAlpha]

09:45 AM on 08/24/2009

Observation:
I'm surprised you didn't drag up Alexander the Great or the Celts of the British Isles. You seem to be willing to dive just about /anywhere/ in history in order to dodge the point about talking about Israel in the present tense.

[Hedonist]

01:24 PM on 08/24/2009

Jewish immigration may have been technically 'illegal' according to the British Mandate but it was totally justified. As the Nazi noose was descending on the Jews of Europe no country would accept Jewish refugees. Canada, for example, to its eternal shame had a policy of "one is too many" when it came to Jewish immigration.

[Paul Hackett]

04:26 PM on 08/24/2009

It was no more justified for them to go Israel than the US or the UK. Why did the Palestinians have to lose the lands they had lived on for over a thousand years? They had nothing to do with the holocaust, and most of the immigrants did not come from countries under nazi occupation. It was a simple lang grab - a fact you conveniently ignore.

[mazzetta]

03:11 AM on 08/24/2009

"To save Palestine"???

Is it a joke or usual spinning?

as Bush feeding Allawi and Chalabi to "save Iraq!?

[ModernTimes1]

02:09 AM on 08/24/2009

"Islamic extremists have created "no-go" areas across Britain where it is too dangerous for non-Muslims to enter..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574694/Bishop-warns-of-no-go-zones-for-non-Muslims.html

[MemoryAlpha]

02:48 AM on 08/24/2009

Highly Amused Observation:
The self proclaimed "secularist" is now kowtowing to a bishop from the Church of England.

[ModernTimes1]

03:01 AM on 08/24/2009

I can forgive ignorance . But not someone who is a certified fooI.

[riff4u]

06:37 PM on 08/25/2009

How about an Arab visiting some of his stolen land on a hill in the West Bank. I'd certainly call that a No-go area.

[ModernTimes1]

02:00 AM on 08/24/2009

This is what ALL Arab states and Palestinain Arabs rejected in 1947!!!
Astonishing lack of political maturity and foresight.

U.N. Partition map.
http://mideastweb.org/un_palestine_partition_map_1947.htm

[MemoryAlpha]

02:47 AM on 08/24/2009

Query:
Yes, it's too bad all those Arab states didn't sell out Palestine the way Great Britain sold out Poland, care of Neville Chamberlain, to a previous country that was also seeking to take land by force from an indigenous population.

[ModernTimes1]

02:55 AM on 08/24/2009

"too bad all those Arab states didn't sell out Palestine."
Wrong.....

As a matter of fact they did. Read a history text.

Fact: Jordan occupied Palestinian territories of West Bank and made ALL Palestinains Jordanian citizens.
Fact: Egyptians placed Gaza under it's military rule and annexed it to Egypt.

ALL betrayed Palestinian national hopes in order to hold on to the land.
Arafat further betrayed Palestinains by acknowledging Jordanian ownership of W. bank and E. Jerusalem. In writing.

Dose of reality. Not pretty.

[jordanispalestine]

10:59 AM on 08/24/2009

They DID!!

[ModernTimes1]

01:35 AM on 08/24/2009

By comparison:

A Christian on the run in Egypt
"Maher El Gohary...and his daughter live like fugitives, moving frequently to avoid those who'd like to see him dead."
Converts such as Gohary "should be kil.led by authorities," says Abdul Aziz Zakareya, a cleric and former professor at Al Azhar University.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-egypt-convert23-2009aug23,0,6941260.story

[TOOO]

08:59 PM on 08/23/2009

Okay, so both sides have blood on their hands. What are we going to do, yell at each other, "Oh, yeah, well, you're even worse!" for eternity?

What about the innocent civilians - on both sides - caught in the crossfire?

[ModernTimes1]

01:58 AM on 08/24/2009

1.Peace can only be achieved by protracted but serious talks with American President as a mediator.
2.. There's a road map. It pretty much spells everything out.
3. At this point peace is only possible between W. Bank and Israel. Gaza is out of the picture.

[mikesw]

02:33 AM on 08/24/2009

"At this point peace is only possible between W. Bank and Israel. Gaza is out of the picture."

Says the anonymous blogger who yesterday was joking about the rape and murder of a 15-year-old American Indian girl...

[riff4u]

04:58 AM on 08/25/2009

The Israelis want nothing to do with the road map. They profit from a constant state of war with the Arab world. They get tons of American aid, the Americans fund and die in a war with Iraq, a country that was no threat to the US but an enemy of Israel. The Israelis will continue to cash in a such sweet deals especially when...... no Israelis die and America funds it all and does all the dying!

[harriettubman]

08:55 PM on 08/23/2009

I guess every person since Abraham's time has tried to stop this feud. Not happening any time soon folks.

[Rapier]

07:27 PM on 08/23/2009

Most Israelis want peace like most Americans want a single-payer health care system. They and we can't have what we want for the same reasons - flawed democracies.

[ModernTimes1]

01:37 AM on 08/24/2009

It is highly illogical to claim that democracy is flawed because it doesn't conform to your narrow minded agenda.

[MemoryAlpha]

02:47 AM on 08/24/2009

Query:
So how come that logic doesn't apply when you denigrate Palestinian democracy?

[Tavallai]

04:56 AM on 08/24/2009

Said democracy is flawed when the will of the majority is not enacted.

It's kind of the purpose of having a democracy, you know?

[whoa20]

04:28 PM on 08/23/2009

self hatred will be the death of the Jews, as well leftist be. This Uri Davis is in the tradition of Trotsky, whose Bolshevik revolution catalyzed Hitler's rise and led to the Holocaust.

[pakaal]

05:08 PM on 08/23/2009

'They must be self-hating Jews.'

Out it comes once again, the phrase Zionists and Neocons use for anyone who's Jewish who disagrees with them. Must be interesting living in a black-and-white world, just be careful at traffic lights.

[whoa20]

05:52 PM on 08/23/2009

most Zionists are not neo-cons, and most Democrats are pro-Israel, in the greatest country in the world, the USA.

[jwcmass]

07:14 PM on 08/23/2009

I really wish these Nazi associations would stop--

They amount to lazy thinking, and a cheap way to slur someone.

To compare Uri davis to Trotsky is ludicrous.

The only thing worse is to then blame Trotsky for Hitler's vicious anti-Semitism, which he picked up in the streets of Vienna before WWI (and thus before Trotsky came to power.

Hitler had a warped view of history and politics. he also wasn't very logical in his "thinking" --simoultaneously blaming the Jews for both Communism AND capitalism.

And he certainly didn't need a Trotsky (who had been booted out of power by Stalin long before Hitler invaded the USSR)- to "justify" his paranoia.


And what that whole history has to do with a man acting according to his conscience to try to bring about a just peace eludes me.

So please, enough with these amateurish Hitler comparisons (to EITHER side in the conflict.)

If you are going to make a case, then please argue it on its own merits.

Davis is hardly the only Israeli to question his country's actions and myths about its history.


one thing I would applaud him for is his attempt to reach out to the other side and see them as human beings. There needs to be more of this.

As I have said many times before, neither the Israelis and Palestinians are going to disappear.

Like it or not, they are going to have to learn to live with each other.-- as EQUALS.

[doughnut70]

07:30 PM on 08/23/2009

You really don't understand your history. Trotsky was an advocate of socialism remaining pure and not compromising with leftist Democratic parties. That is precisely why the left could never unite to oppose Hitler. Davis's beliefs are not necessarily evil, but they are rooted in the same mindset. While most people see a state created as a haven for Jewish people as a necessary step forward down the path of human rights that the world is traveling, he sees the preferences given to people of the Jewish faith the same way others saw South Africa. He is like Gahndi when Gahndi pushed the British to move out of India during World War II arguing that Japan wasn't big enough to keep control and would fall apart if she tried. The British thought he was crazy, but the truth was that he was just a little too pure for the world we live in. So was Trotsky and so is Davis.

[Ergon]

03:39 PM on 08/23/2009

I know the daughter of a rabbi who lived in Berlin during the war and HE supported Palestinian rights.

[courtb]

05:02 PM on 08/23/2009

The majority of pro-Israel people are also pro-Palestinian. We want the Palestinians to have their own country and to prosper and to live side by side in peace with Israel. We don't celebrate the deaths of innocent Palestinians. But that doesn't mean we won't stick up for Israel, especially in the face of the hostility on these message boards.

[jwcmass]

07:37 PM on 08/23/2009

I applaud your sentiments , and i am also aware that there are many Israelis who have deicated themselves to trying to document and end Israeli human rights abuses against Palestinians.

There needs to be more personal relationships between Israelis and Palestinians--so both sides can see the humanity of the other -- and find out that they are not so different.

But as an American, looking at it from the outside, it seems that the Settler Movement (and i am aware that most settlers are not ideological) has hijacked the Israeli political system (using the weakness of the major parties) to largely get their way.

Remember it was an Israeli settler who assassinated Prime Minister Rabin (a man I greatly admired) --and preceeding that there were right wing rallies in which Rabin was depicted on posters as a Nazi! Benjamin Netanyahu was at these rallies and never condemned the extremism. I think that his participation was tantamount to helping incite the murder. Yet he's been elected Prime Minister TWICE!!

When Rabin died, not enough Israelis were there to pick up the banner of peace and carry it forward. Rather the reverse happened, and Israel basically allowed an assassin to get his way, and de-rail the Oslo process.

This extremism on the part of a minority of Israelis is even more dangerous (because they are much better armed) than the Palestinian extremists. But the extremists cannot be allowed to derail the peace process. Where are all the moderates?

[WilliamL]

07:49 PM on 08/23/2009

I am pleased to hear this, honestly, I am,

What wd. really be encouraging is to see mass demonstrations of all the people who believe as you do where you are and move the peace process forward.

That wd. please me so much as yet have scene nothing to believe the desire for peace is as great as you say.

I see people elected again and again that lead me to believe otherwise.

I am not saying I do not believe you, I am saying mass demonstrations, even on line, wd. be a good place to start.

[mamacat]

05:02 PM on 08/23/2009

I know the son of holocaust survivors who refuses to live in Israel, out of disdain for the way the Arabs there have been mistreated. That does not mean that he is in favor of Arab terrorism, only that he disapproves of Israeli immorality. Likewise, many holocaust survivors do not live in Israel.

[whoa20]

05:23 PM on 08/23/2009

anyone can say, mamacat. yes, we'll just believethat "you know" the sons of Holocaust survivors. Sorry, but the number of actual Holocaust survivors who are pro-israel far outnumbers the ones who are anti-Israel. By far.

[gladys46]

02:42 PM on 08/23/2009

So if open elections are to be a democracy .. can we say that Israel is a democratic state ?

[jordanispalestine]

02:41 PM on 08/23/2009

I guess the Muslim moderators are particularly snarky and nasty during ramadan. Make sure you're all fasting...no starbucks on breaks. Shalom!

[whoa20]

05:53 PM on 08/23/2009

I wouldn't be surprised if blogs like HP and DKos are owned or paid for in part by the Saudis

[jwcmass]

07:58 PM on 08/23/2009

Now if someone here were to complain that pro- Palestinian comments were being censored, and they complained that HP "must be owned by the Jews", then you would --correctly-- accuse them of making anti-Semitic statements.

Yet you are doing the exact same thing in reverse.


This kind of polemical rhetoric is another dead-end.

Let's deal with the issues at hand.

[Ergon]

02:41 PM on 08/24/2009

You might want to appreciate that most people in the world, according to the BBC poll, see Israel the greatest threat to peace, even more so than the US.