'Inhumane' CIA Terror Tactics Spur Criminal Probe

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AP/ Huffington Post
First Posted: 08-24-09 03:06 PM   |   Updated: 09-24-09 05:12 AM

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Terror Probe

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration launched a criminal investigation Monday into harsh questioning of detainees during President George W. Bush's war on terrorism, revealing CIA interrogators' threats to kill one suspect's children and to force another to watch his mother sexually assaulted.

At the same time, President Barack Obama ordered changes in future interrogations, bringing in other agencies besides the CIA under the direction of the FBI and supervised by his own national security adviser. The administration pledged questioning would be controlled by the Army Field Manual, with strict rules on tactics, and said the White House would keep its hands off the professional investigators doing the work.

Despite the announcement of the criminal probe, several Obama spokesmen declared anew -- as the president has repeatedly -- that on the subject of detainee interrogation he "wants to look forward, not back" at Bush tactics. They took pains to say decisions on any prosecutions would be up to Attorney General Eric Holder, not the White House.

Monday's five-year-old report by the CIA's inspector general, newly declassified and released under a federal court's orders, described severe tactics used by interrogators on terror suspects after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Seeking information about possible further attacks, interrogators threatened one detainee with a gun and a power drill and tried to frighten another with a mock execution of another prisoner.

Attorney General Holder said he had chosen a veteran prosecutor to determine whether any CIA officers or contractors should face criminal charges for crossing the line on rough but permissible tactics.

Obama has said interrogators would not face charges if they followed legal guidelines, but the report by the CIA's inspector general said they went too far -- even beyond what was authorized under Justice Department legal memos that have since been withdrawn and discredited. The report also suggested some questioners knew they were crossing a line.

"Ten years from now we're going to be sorry we're doing this (but) it has to be done," one unidentified CIA officer was quoted as saying, predicting the questioners would someday have to appear in court to answer for such tactics.

The report concluded the CIA used "unauthorized, improvised, inhumane" practices in questioning "high-value" terror suspects.

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Monday's documents represent the largest single release of information about the Bush administration's once-secret system of capturing terrorism suspects and interrogating them in overseas prisons.

White House officials said they plan to continue the controversial practice of rendition of suspects to foreign countries, though they said that in future cases they would more carefully check to make sure such suspects are not tortured.

In one instance cited in the new documents, Abd al-Nashiri, the man accused of being behind the 2000 USS Cole bombing, was hooded, handcuffed and threatened with an unloaded gun and a power drill. The unidentified interrogator also threatened al-Nashiri's mother and family, implying they would be sexually abused in front of him, according to the report.

The interrogator denied making a direct threat.

Another interrogator told alleged Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, "if anything else happens in the United States, 'We're going to kill your children,'" one veteran officer said in the report.

Death threats violate anti-torture laws.

In another instance, an interrogator pinched the carotid artery of a detainee until he started to pass out, then shook him awake. He did this three times. The interrogator, a CIA debriefer accustomed to questioning willing subjects, said he had only recently been trained to conduct interrogations.

Top Republican senators said they were troubled by the decision to begin a new investigation, which they said could weaken U.S. intelligence efforts. Sen. Patrick Leahy, the Democratic chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said the revelations showed the Bush administration went down a "dark road of excusing torture."

Investigators credited the detention-and-interrogation program for developing intelligence that prevented multiple attacks against Americans. One CIA operative interviewed for the report said the program thwarted al-Qaida plots to attack the U.S. Embassy in Pakistan, derail trains, blow up gas stations and cut the suspension line of a bridge.

"In this regard, there is no doubt that the program has been effective," investigators wrote, backing an argument by former Vice President Dick Cheney and others that the program saved lives.

But the inspector general said it was unclear whether so-called "enhanced interrogation" tactics contributed to that success. Those tactics include waterboarding, a simulated drowning technique that the Obama administration says is torture. Measuring the success of such interrogation is "a more subjective process and not without some concern," the report said.

The report describes at least one mock execution, which would also violate U.S. anti-torture laws. To terrify one detainee, interrogators pretended to execute the prisoner in a nearby room. A senior officer said it was a transparent ruse that yielded no benefit.

As the report was released, Attorney General Holder appointed prosecutor John Durham to open a preliminary investigation into the claims of abuse. Durham is already investigating the destruction of CIA interrogation videos and now will examine whether CIA officers or contractors broke laws in the handling of suspects.

The administration also announced Monday that all U.S. interrogators will follow the rules for detainees laid out by the Army Field Manual. The manual, last updated in September 2006, prohibits forcing detainees to be naked, threatening them with military dogs, exposing them to extreme heat or cold, conducting mock executions, depriving them of food, water, or medical care, and waterboarding.

Formation of the new interrogation unit for "high-value" detainees does not mean the CIA is out of the business of questioning terror suspects, deputy White House press secretary Bill Burton told reporters covering the vacationing president on Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts.

Burton said the unit will include "all these different elements under one group" and will be located at the FBI headquarters in Washington.

The structure of the new unit the White House is creating would be significantly broader than under the Bush administration, when the CIA had the lead and sometimes exclusive role in questioning al-Qaida suspects.

Obama campaigned vigorously against Bush administration interrogation practices in his successful run for the presidency. He has said more recently he didn't particularly favor prosecuting officials in connection with instances of prisoner abuse.

Burton said Holder "ultimately is going to make the decisions."

CIA Director Leon Panetta said in an e-mail message to agency employees Monday that he intended "to stand up for those officers who did what their country asked and who followed the legal guidance they were given. That is the president's position, too," he said.

Panetta said some CIA officers have been disciplined for going beyond the methods approved for interrogations by the Bush-era Justice Department. Just one CIA employee -- contractor David Passaro_ has been prosecuted for detainee abuse.

***


Holder has now released a statement:

"The Office of Professional Responsibility has now submitted to me its report regarding the Office of Legal Counsel memoranda related to so-called enhanced interrogation techniques. I hope to be able to make as much of that report available as possible after it undergoes a declassification review and other steps. Among other findings, the report recommends that the Department reexamine previous decisions to decline prosecution in several cases related to the interrogation of certain detainees.

"I have reviewed the OPR report in depth. Moreover, I have closely examined the full, still-classified version of the 2004 CIA Inspector General's report, as well as other relevant information available to the Department. As a result of my analysis of all of this material, I have concluded that the information known to me warrants opening a preliminary review into whether federal laws were violated in connection with the interrogation of specific detainees at overseas locations. The Department regularly uses preliminary reviews to gather information to determine whether there is sufficient predication to warrant a full investigation of a matter. I want to emphasize that neither the opening of a preliminary review nor, if evidence warrants it, the commencement of a full investigation, means that charges will necessarily follow.

"Assistant United States Attorney John Durham was appointed in 2008 by then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey to investigate the destruction of CIA videotapes of detainee interrogations. During the course of that investigation, Mr. Durham has gained great familiarity with much of the information that is relevant to the matter at hand. Accordingly, I have decided to expand his mandate to encompass this related review. Mr. Durham, who is a career prosecutor with the Department of Justice and who has assembled a strong investigative team of experienced professionals, will recommend to me whether there is sufficient predication for a full investigation into whether the law was violated in connection with the interrogation of certain detainees.

"There are those who will use my decision to open a preliminary review as a means of broadly criticizing the work of our nation's intelligence community. I could not disagree more with that view. The men and women in our intelligence community perform an incredibly important service to our nation, and they often do so under difficult and dangerous circumstances. They deserve our respect and gratitude for the work they do. Further, they need to be protected from legal jeopardy when they act in good faith and within the scope of legal guidance. That is why I have made it clear in the past that the Department of Justice will not prosecute anyone who acted in good faith and within the scope of the legal guidance given by the Office of Legal Counsel regarding the interrogation of detainees. I want to reiterate that point today, and to underscore the fact that this preliminary review will not focus on those individuals.

"I share the President's conviction that as a nation, we must, to the extent possible, look forward and not backward when it comes to issues such as these. While this Department will follow its obligation to take this preliminary step to examine possible violations of law, we will not allow our important work of keeping the American people safe to be sidetracked.

"I fully realize that my decision to commence this preliminary review will be controversial. As Attorney General, my duty is to examine the facts and to follow the law. In this case, given all of the information currently available, it is clear to me that this review is the only responsible course of action for me to take."

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration launched a criminal investigation Monday into harsh questioning of detainees during President George W. Bush's war on terrorism, revealing CIA interrogators' thre...
WASHINGTON - The Obama administration launched a criminal investigation Monday into harsh questioning of detainees during President George W. Bush's war on terrorism, revealing CIA interrogators' thre...
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- berrycooda I'm a Fan of berrycooda 22 fans permalink

Oh, that poor Nashiri....
He only killed 18 young sailors on that U.S.S Cole that he bombed.

We must pity him tho because we are so humane...

Where is the compassion that our A.G. could have for the families
of these U.S. sailors.
Oops...forgot...we slap on the wrist and forgive and forget.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 08/25/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 68 fans permalink

yes, very true

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 AM on 08/26/2009
- K.J. Dwyer - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of K.J. Dwyer 98 fans permalink

"That is why I have made it clear in the past that the Department of Justice will not prosecute anyone who acted in good faith and within the scope of the legal guidance given by the Office of Legal Counsel . . . " Eric Holder

The pains to which Holder and the Obama administration are taking to "look forward, not back", as well as their continuance of the Bush rendition program (which, in practice, even with additional oversight, will ensure further acts of torture) are clear indications that they will conclude that the original OLC memos will be "upheld" insofar as anyone involved in their generation and reliance thereon will not be prosecuted. Only those who acted "beyond" the parameters of the OLC memos will be held to account, thereby exonerating the Bush administration officials responsible for instigating torture in the first place.

If what the Obama administration is doing represents "reform", not only on this issue but the economy and healthcare as well, everyone should gird themselves for a second wave (more like a tsunami) of financial disasters, further breakdown of the healthcare system as well as a continued loss of credibility internationally. What watered-down half-measures will this administration apply to the environment and energy?

The mess we face requires a much firmer hand. This is not a time for compromise, especially with the likes of Republicans who bring nothing to the table but obstruction. Obama is failing and he needs to made to understand this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 08/25/2009
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I agree with you. However, I have done my research and the problem of the shadow government is much larger than we thought. This is theater. The MIC and the rogue CIA are controlled along with our media. They have weapons that make it hard to think, that make you easier to manipulate, they know everything about everybody and blackmail regularly, they bribe people with incredible amounts of money, they disappear people, etc.

Obama's p lane loaned to him by Hillary almost c rash Ed. He is one of these things, either being very cautious and playing chess because he has the right to f ear these people, he is one of them believing he is an economic royalist, or they are using substances to help manipulate him

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 08/25/2009
- Rule Of Law I'm a Fan of Rule Of Law 144 fans permalink

bluesky--Dwyer asked all the right questions, and your answers bear consideration (short of the substances--I don't think we are at that level of science fiction yet, especially when all the other threats are so effective already).

But you stopped short of naming who controls the MIC, media etc. And the funny thing is we've been warned about those people since Jefferson's time. And after the creation of the Federal Reserve dozens of high level politicians warned us Again! Yet so many here don't want to hear it.

Follow the money. It always leads back to Wall Street. If anyone doubts their power to bring the world to its knees after seeing the creation of this economic crisis, then they just aren't paying attention. The domination of countries and Empires--and the people who live in them--has always been the goal of these elites. That hasn't changed.

Based on Obama and Holder's own words, we can expect to see theatrical trials of a few enlisted people and low level intelligence operatives while Cheney, Yoo, Addington, Gonzales, etc go free.

We already know why.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 08/25/2009
- KidMohair I'm a Fan of KidMohair 82 fans permalink

A firmer hand according to WHO?

YOU? Who don't have all the facts? Your considered opinion is worth about as much as that which you use to eliminate. EVERYBODY'S got one, Sparky.

Aren't you a bit tired of percipitous actionj by a chief-executive charging full-blast in the wrong direction? For that matter, Are'nt you tired of a DoJ that does the same?

Oh...I get it....because you're hot and bothered, the President should follow suit....right?

Truth be told, YOU'RE the one that's failing.

Failing to let the administration do it's job

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 08/25/2009
- susanlno I'm a Fan of susanlno 8 fans permalink

Two questions:

1) How is the Obama administration doing its job by merely condemning torture, but doing almost nothing to stop its actual practice?

2) How does anyone's expressing his/her opinion on this blog keep the administration from doing its job?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 08/25/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 68 fans permalink

surprised?

laughing at you

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 08/26/2009
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Intellectual dishonesty is the hallmark of the Republican Party, along with torture and other such disgusting practices. They lie outright about everything they can get away with, for example simply doubling the cost estimate for health care reform and leading the elderly to believe that Democrats intend to euthanize them.
They dissemble when they cannot lie, for example renaming torture as "enhanced interrogation."
And they confuse when they cannot dissemble, for example branding the victims of racism as racists.
Leading neocons have made themselves a virtue of lying, claiming that the ignorant masses must be lied to and hoodwinked with simple-minded religion.
Republicans lie because they have to. If they revealed their real motives, they'd be out of office and, in many cases, right into prison.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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The UN provided the definition of torture in the 1994 Convention Against Torture ("CAT"):

"... torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person ..."

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html

Bybee and Yoo authored legal opinions that these "enhanced methods" were within compliance of this governing treaty. Apparently they did not exceed the "severity test". Two Attorney Generals and every single justice lawyer involved concurred. These were the only legal opinions available to Bush concerning a classified program.

End of story ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

Yes. End of story. When war crimes are committed it there is frequently an effort made before or after to give the appearance of legality. Now we should begin the story of the war crimes trials.

Unfortunately we've got Obama who's decided to back the principle that some people are above the law while Holder has decided that "I was only following orders" is a pretty darn good excuse for war crimes.

I thought the days of being ashamed of our AG was over when Bush left town. Looks like we've got 4 more years to sweat out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 08/25/2009

How about including in the begining of your little fictious war crimes trials fantasy We include Harry Reid for aiding and abetting the enemy when he said "This war is lost"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 AM on 08/25/2009
- Mason I'm a Fan of Mason 37 fans permalink
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Your analysis fails miserably because Yoo basically redefined an apple to be an orange and said the President has the authority to do that because he's the President.

You need to go back to school and learn how to think.

End of story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 08/25/2009
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They have an option to fan people. I wish they would provide the option to h ate people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 08/25/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 54 fans permalink
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Yes as we have seen around the world, perhaps most especially in Israel, the UNs opinion carries a lot of weight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 08/25/2009
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

...watch.....



WOuld someone on the left care to condemn the insurgents for the dEaths in Iraq?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 08/25/2009
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

I have NEVER has any democrat take me up on this....THERE IT IS...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 08/25/2009
- StillAmused I'm a Fan of StillAmused 251 fans permalink

You mean the insurgents who DIDN'T EXIST before we invaded and occupied the joint?

THOSE insurgents?

HERE it is... right here (points downward).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

What planet do you spend most of YOUR time on?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 08/25/2009
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

Where did you learn how to avoid answering a question..?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 08/25/2009
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I'm not an Iraqi, I'm an American citizen. So AMERICAN POLICY is my ethical responsibility, not Iraqi policy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 08/25/2009
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

See, he won't blame the insurgents for killing innocent Iraqi's and preventing peace and democracy to take hold....Yet they are insulted when you accuse them of supporting our enemies.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 08/25/2009
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

No one on the left will condemn the killing of innocent women and children by the insurgents in Iraq.
WHAT MORE DO WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THEM?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 08/25/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 106 fans permalink
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All of those chest-pounding Bush-lovers who are cheering for Cheney's torture should think about this:

The U.S. is rapidly losing economic power, which will undoubtedly lead to loss of miltiary power. Iran, China, Soviet Union are climbing again, China will soon be the worlds' superpower. All the while, the U.S. has pulled itself out of human-rights agreements to fight world-wide dissent against Capitalism. Leadership tortures, massacres - no rules - screw everyone - all in the name of propagating Supply Side Capitalism.

When (not if) this empire falls from the fatal effects of 30 years of Reaganism, - how will you deal with other countries exploit the Pandoras Box of human rights abuses on yourselves or your loved ones? (assuming you would fight a foreign invasion out of Patriotism and not become blanket "Regime Cheerleaders" like you did for Republicans)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 08/25/2009
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"how will you deal with other countries exploit the Pandoras Box of human rights abuses on yourselves or your loved ones?"

You are assuming they respect "human rights" now and in the future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 08/25/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 54 fans permalink
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Who is "they" ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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Q: How many enemies that we have battled since the Geneva Conventions were adopted have obeyed them?

A: zero

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 08/25/2009
- Mason I'm a Fan of Mason 37 fans permalink
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Your statement is irrelevant.

Torture is a war crime, no matter who does it.

There are no exceptions and no excuses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 08/25/2009
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Okkkkkkk...Don't scare the children, now. China will not soon be the world superpower. I will put our GDP, roads, weapons and innovation up against China's any day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 08/25/2009

China may become a superpower but we are a hyper power big difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 08/25/2009
- Mason I'm a Fan of Mason 37 fans permalink
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China's status in the world is irrelevant to this discussion about whether Americans tortured people and, if they did, whether they should be prosecuted for war crimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 08/25/2009
- Matrsnot I'm a Fan of Matrsnot 20 fans permalink

As with Rome this empire is falling form within because of many things. The welfare state is upon us. Those who work for a living must now provide for those who won't sork. We OWE them OUR money and the things WE work for. This nation is now a people without a will to survive, with the exception of a few. The current president is bringing this upon us at an accelerated rate now, with his voo doo economic policy of bankrupting the government first and us second. I too wonder how many will actually fight back against invasion of other countries or the UN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 AM on 08/25/2009
- susanlno I'm a Fan of susanlno 8 fans permalink

As you should know, not everyone who is unemployed "won't work." A lot of those people are unable to find work. Don't they deserve some support while they're searching for the jobs that our bad economic policy keeps taking away?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 08/25/2009
- mredder4 I'm a Fan of mredder4 25 fans permalink

This story was vanished from the front page so fast, I was shocked. I've never seen a story here get 10,000+ comments, much less be removed from visability as a result.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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If Cheney is correct and the "enhaced interrogations" resulted in timely, accurate and actionable intel that prevented the deaths of hundreds or even thousands of Americans ... would any of you change your minds?

Aren't you even curious? Release the memos now, Mr. President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 08/25/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 237 fans permalink
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I think he would have but the generals told him that the information would endanger American troops. This is understandable since the torture victims included women and children.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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Wrong ... that was the first set of CIA memos that the CIA begged him not to release last Spring. Four previous DCI's and his own Leon Panetta stronly disagreed.

Now that these methods are clear to all our enemies, what harm could come from releasing an efficacy study?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

[If Cheney is correct and the "enhaced interrogations" resulted in timely, accurate and actionable intel that prevented the deaths of hundreds or even thousands of Americans ... ]

It would STILL be a war crime and illegal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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By your definition of torture ...

So define the word "severe" for me ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

No. Aside from the rather obvious lie (you REALLY expected torture to suddenly start yielding valuable military information after centuries of being used to produce propaganda and terror?) it's been discredited by the other high ranking people in the administration who DON'T have a reason to lie.

Wake up and smell the betrayal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 08/25/2009
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Anything to change the subject from Obama's failed healthcare debacle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 AM on 08/25/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 237 fans permalink
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Far from failed. We will see the public option.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

And that will be a failure of health care reform. The public option is just there to give cover for a massive corporate welfare bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 08/25/2009
- dumbosrus I'm a Fan of dumbosrus 24 fans permalink

The mess he's escalating in Afghanistan
A failed economic stimulus
Lack of respect on behalf of foreign gov'ts
His own possible involvement in ACORN's legal issues
His socialistic views of gov't

There are PLENTY of topics other than a failed health care concept to talk about.

But not this morning. Time to hit the links.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

[His own possible involvement in ACORN's legal issues]

HA! ACORN, squawks the parrot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 08/25/2009
- Geneil I'm a Fan of Geneil 7 fans permalink
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Republican? Its ok to put the Iraq war on a credit card, but lets not
do anything to help ourselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 AM on 08/25/2009
- Dupree I'm a Fan of Dupree 207 fans permalink

Part II

I think what is alarming is that we believed our own hype about "US" and yet if we scrutinize our history it is blatantly threaded with evidence of inhumane practices from its conception. I think that we still should strive to live up to our rhetoric about how humane we all are and what we don't do in the name of principles...but at least we need to be honest with ourselves first....the art of dehumanization is not new to this country. Do not get me wrong. I love our constitution and this country. I love this country enough to tell the truth about it. For only in the atmosphere of truth can any real development of improvement can be gleaned. And I appreciate the fact that questions needs to be asked by those who participated in the kind of abuses as discussed however, Let's not hoodwinked ourselves about who we are....as oppose to who we seek to become.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 08/25/2009
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

Just imagine what we could accomplish as a nation if everyone that lives in america wanted america to prevail in this epic battle?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 AM on 08/25/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 237 fans permalink
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What epic battle? The Taliban is a small group of terrorists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:06 AM on 08/25/2009
- reggieb I'm a Fan of reggieb 82 fans permalink

Just imagine what we could accomplish as a nation if everyone that lives in america wnted america to retain it's collective soul

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

I want America to prevail. That's why we need to prosecute the traitors that sullied our name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 08/25/2009
- Dupree I'm a Fan of Dupree 207 fans permalink

Part I

This administration is receiving so much criticism from both sides of the spectrum. The liberals are upset for they want to increase the leverage of prosecution for they believe war crimes has been committed and the conservatives are angry because they think the President should pull strings with the attorney general office and force him to stop this investigation. He is damned if he do and damned if he don't. From my perspective the attorney general is functioning in the capacity as an independent agency as it should be and the President is a futurist that believes we should not look backwards but forward and move on. They both are operating in the realm of their personal and professional beliefs and principles. As it should be.

I personally believe that the Bush/Cheney administration went beyond the call the duty. They implemented practices that was diabolically contrary to what we tell ourselves we don't stand for however, if we examine our history we will see that a lot of the moral principles we claim to have had pretty much been on papers rather than in motion. We had laws on our books that sanctioned abuse of human beings. Men lynched other men and none that practiced this ever went to trial or seen justice. They boldly had their pictures taken without out fear of reprisal. This is a country that has its history rooted in violence and dehumanization of others.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 08/25/2009
- harpen1 I'm a Fan of harpen1 3 fans permalink

The issue is torture. It is illegal, by our own standards. If we don't live up to our own standards than we truly are morally bankrupt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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Who gets to define that word, torture? You or DOJ career officials reading specific UN treay agreements?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 08/25/2009
- RandVictims I'm a Fan of RandVictims 106 fans permalink
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When (not if) our broke, 3rd world country is eventually invaded by [take your pick] and they waterboard you, mock-execute your siblings in order to get you to rat out your rebellious neighbors......

......come back to us and tell us what YOUR definition of "torture" is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 AM on 08/25/2009
- reggieb I'm a Fan of reggieb 82 fans permalink

"you" or yoo?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 AM on 08/25/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 237 fans permalink
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Torture is already defined under our criminal law and in international treaties the US ratified.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 08/25/2009
- Graywolf48 I'm a Fan of Graywolf48 78 fans permalink
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I'd rather a UN or World Court provide the definition since I do not trust our Department of Justice or American lawyers to do it. We will define torture in our favor to make sure we are not "guilty" or "Implicated" in any wrong doing. Either that, or will scapegoat a few "little" people and let the top guys go free. Why would you want to allow criminals, who took part in the crimes to interpret or define the meaning of the laws? This is rubbish and if we don't have a full and thorough investigation of these alleged crimes and either convict and punish or exonerate those involved, then we are all willing co-conspirators. We need another Nuremberg Tribunal to close out this horrible period of our history. And if that means putting Bush, Cheney and their criminal thugs in the criminal dock, so be it. Have we become that morally corrupt?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

Indeed. However, that is also the reason the tr0lls are all pro-t0rture: they ARE morally bankrupt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 08/25/2009
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WE ARE and have been morally bankrupt for some time now as a nation, depending on who's test is applied to ask such a question. You should consult history to view those things we've committed over time to establish and maintain this empire. American domination has a price.

Like it or not, you and everyone else on this blog has contributed to that domination. This means that all that's left is hot air.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

Agreed. I thought the days of being embarrassed about our AG were over when Bush left town. Looks like we've got another 4 years to sweat out until we get someone with a clue about justice in office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 08/25/2009
- Mason I'm a Fan of Mason 37 fans permalink
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Attorney General Eric Holder said,

"The men and women in our intelligence community perform an incredibly important service to our nation, and they often do so under difficult and dangerous circumstances. They deserve our respect and gratitude for the work they do. Further, they need to be protected from legal jeopardy when they act in good faith and within the scope of legal guidance. That is why I have made it clear in the past that the Department of Justice will not prosecute anyone who acted in good faith and within the scope of the legal guidance given by the Office of Legal Counsel regarding the interrogation of detainees. I want to reiterate that point today, and to underscore the fact that this preliminary review will not focus on those individuals."

John Yoo certainly did not act in good faith when he wrote the memos authorizing torture to provide cover for those who authorized torture (Cheney, Bush, and the White House Iraq Group) and those who tortured mostly innocent people.

This is thinly disguised effort to WHITEWASH the responsible people at the expense of a few "bad apples," and places Obama, Holder, and Durham in the conspiracy to cover-up war crimes, which itself is a war crime.

DISGUSTING!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:55 AM on 08/25/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 237 fans permalink
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What he is saying is not unlike the stuff the Nazi government said about the SS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 08/25/2009
- reggieb I'm a Fan of reggieb 82 fans permalink

Godwin's Law - overuse of Na zi and Hitl er comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact

To summarize; yawn

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

Obama is making the argument that some people are above the law and Holder is saying that "I was only following orders" is a valid legal excuse for war crimes.

And these are the DEMOCRATS!

American Justice is failing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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Dos anyone have any evidence that Bush pressured DOJ lawyers to get a favorable legal opinion on "enhanced interrogations"?

Anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:55 AM on 08/25/2009
- crablover I'm a Fan of crablover 18 fans permalink

All roads lead to Cheney.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

We have plenty stated PUBLICALLY that Yoo was ordered to justify t0rture and he did so in the laziest ways possible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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Name them ... because Yoo himself denies this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 08/25/2009
- Mason I'm a Fan of Mason 37 fans permalink
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To curry favor with Cheney & advance his own career, John Yoo volunteered for the job via back channels through his neocon connections. He produced the memos without letting his boss or fellow employees in the Office of Legal Counsel know what he was doing. That he took such extraordinary precautions to hide what he was doing, is powerful and damning evidence of his guilt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 08/25/2009
- Matrsnot I'm a Fan of Matrsnot 20 fans permalink

HO Hum. Welcome to the USSA, the newest thrid world country. We will now try all previous administrations for "war crimes" immediately upon their being voted out of office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 AM on 08/25/2009
- drbillybob I'm a Fan of drbillybob 77 fans permalink
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exactly ... this is outrageous

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

If you are outraged, then Obama's team must be doing something right. Again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 08/25/2009
- Mason I'm a Fan of Mason 37 fans permalink
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No, you're outrageous and should be ashamed of yourself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 08/25/2009
- reggieb I'm a Fan of reggieb 82 fans permalink

good

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 08/25/2009
- PWM I'm a Fan of PWM 237 fans permalink
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We are not above the law. If an administration breaks the law the next administration is constitutionally obligated to investigate. The main purpose of the Executive branch of government is to uphold the law.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 AM on 08/25/2009
- Matrsnot I'm a Fan of Matrsnot 20 fans permalink

Keep in mind that the current administration is conducting a war many here were against in the first place. What "crimes" are being perpetrated in the name of this one? Will these people who want to try the previous adminstration be prepared to follow in their footsteps to be tried for thier crimes against humanity and this country?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 08/25/2009
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 213 fans permalink

The USSA was dismantled in 2008 when the Rushpublicans were removed from office. Try to keep up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 08/25/2009
- jmpurser I'm a Fan of jmpurser 149 fans permalink

Or ignore war crimes which is what Obama is doing.

You suffer from reality deficit disorder.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 08/25/2009
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