Progressive Caucus Finds Itself In A Strange Place: Power

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First Posted: 08-25-09 05:32 PM   |   Updated: 08-25-09 08:24 PM

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Ral Grijalva

The White House expressed surprise last week that the "left of the left" had clung so forcefully to the public insurance option as a must-have element of health care reform. Some old hands in the administration were more likely surprised by the simple fact that, at this late stage, they still have to deal with progressives in Congress.

And who can blame them?

"We're the group that speaks to the righteousness of an issue, [but] inevitably the decisions about how that issue's going to be addressed are conducted somewhere else," said Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), describing the traditional fecklessness of progressives in Congress. "The fact that we have stuck to our guns about the public option has surprised people."

A majority of the 81 Congressional Progressive Caucus members of the House have vowed to oppose any health care bill that does not include a "robust public option." That threat has kept it alive. With 256 seats in the House and 218 needed to pass a bill, Democrats simply can't move health care reform on their own without progressive caucus support.

The question facing the White House and congressional leadership: Just how serious are they? Interviews with CPC leaders and a look at the group's behavior suggest that leadership would be well advised to consider the threat real.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has repeatedly acknowledged the reality that the progressives can block the bill. In June, she was asked by HuffPost if she would allow health care reform without a public option to pass the House.

"It's not a question of allow. It wouldn't have the votes," she said. When the White House went squishy last week on the public option ("not essential"/"one sliver"/"a piece"), Pelosi returned to the basic calculus. "There's no way I can pass a bill in the House of Representatives without a public option," she said.

The strong House stand promises an end to the lower chamber's traditional role of Senate spectator - where the wise "centrists" in the august body craft compromise legislation and present it to the House as a fait accomplis.

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Until recently, reporters on Capitol Hill almost never found themselves typing the words "Congressional Progressive Caucus."

Raúl Grijalva's honed his politics in the Arizona desert, where he organized on behalf of the creation of community health centers.

"A good community organizer develops a high degree of codependency," said Grijalva. "You're codependent on the people you're working with. You're codependent on other organizations to help you. You're codependent on other members of the leadership team to do their part and so you learn to work both in the background and in front."

In March, Grijalva did something unusual for the progressive caucus: he began organizing. Caucus leadership sent a questionnaire asking members if they would be willing to oppose any health care bill that didn't include a public option. A majority said they would.

Attendance at caucus meetings - which had dipped to just a handful of members - began rising as the group hashed out what message to deliver to House leadership.

"I really felt that we needed to be righteous about the things that we believe in, but we also needed to practice the craft a little better," said Grijalva. "As a bloc we were getting beaten to the punch all the time."

If the CPC is the conscience of the Democratic Party, Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) has long been the conscience of the CPC. The only member to vote against using force against Afghanistan after 9/11, Lee has taken stand after losing stand on behalf of the dispossessed and disenfranchised. She stepped down as progressive caucus co-chair - where she had served alongside outspoken progressive Lynne Woolsey (D-Calif.) -- at the end of last year to take the helm of the Congressional Black Caucus.

Grijalva and sophomore Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) ran to fill Lee's spot. Both argued that the caucus needed to become relevant by taking strong and unified positions, a model that the Blue Dog Coalition had perfected since it formed in 1995.

"Quite frankly, we got motivated because there were other caucuses in the Democratic caucus who seem to get disproportionate attention based on their numbers," said Ellison. The Blue Dogs only number 51. "And we're like, wait a minute, we've got 80-plus members. How can we be ignored?"

Ellison's stature has risen quickly in House, where his sharp cross-examination of Bush administration officials' testimony and eloquence on the House floor has been quickly noticed.

Woolsey and Grijalva were elected co-chairs, with Ellison finishing third. "On an individual basis, progressive caucus members have always been a force within the caucus," said Ellison. "The difference here is how we have coalesced and hung together."

Like any institutional change, this one wasn't easy. "There was a comfort zone in being, 'Okay, we're going to do our alternative budget and that was the whole effort for the whole year. Wonderful, but at the end of the day, what?" said one member, who spoke not for attribution so as not to offend caucus members who are deeply invested in creating the progressive's alternative budget - an exercise that is almost completely ignored by the media and has no impact on the actual budget.

"The change to this attitude wasn't easy internally within the caucus," said the member.

For Woolsey, it's the issue that allows the caucus to stand unified. "It's the issue. We agree on this," she said. "We have never had the luxury of saying, 'Either go with us, or we'll go with the Republicans. We don't believe what the Republicans stand for at all. So it's been more difficult when Bush ran the White House. Nor have we had the majority of the progressives drawing a line in the sand as they are now."

Ilyse Hogue of MoveOn.org said that the ability of the progressives to identify the public option as the element to organize around has made their tough stand possible. "One of the things that we have typically seen from progressive members is a willingness to fight, but to fight on 18 fronts," she said. "They're unified around the public option. A single ask gives them legislative power."

In April, the message was delivered to leadership, which asked what elements of a public option must be included. Again, the progressives did something unusual: they turned to outside groups for help.

"Members of the progressive caucus began to hire people that were part of the progressive movement," said Ellison. "I got to congress in 2007. If you look at the level of connection between where we were when I got there and where we are now, I'm pretty hopeful about the prospects for a progressive future."

Ellison cited Rep. Alan Grayson's (D-Fla.) hiring of prominent blogger Matt Stoller. "He brings all of his perspective and his technical expertise with him," said Ellison.

The caucus also brought on Darcy Burner to help with outreach to progressive groups. Burner had twice run for Congress and is a hero of the Netroots community of bloggers and activists. She arranged for Jacob Hacker, the intellectual architect of the public option, and Diane Archer co-president of the Health Care for All Project, which is run by the Institute for America's Future, to brief the caucus.

With their help, the CPC developed a list of elements of a public option that must be included - and fit it all on one page, another feat.

On June 23rd, about two weeks after Pelosi said that health care reform wouldn't have the votes without a public option, the blog FiretDogLake.com began its own whip count of progressive members to put them on the record.

In July, an internal whip count was leaked to DailyKos that listed some 50 names of members who had taken the pledge to oppose a health care bill that didn't include a public option. Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) is in charge of keeping the whip count for the CPC. Her spokeswoman, Dorinda White, confirmed to HuffPost that the list was accurate and had since only grown longer. FireDogLake, however, was unable to get the 50 members to confirm their position on the record, calling their commitment into question.

"We figured it was pretty unlikely they'd stand up for it in conference if they wouldn't even confirm it publicly," said FireDogLake founder Jane Hamsher.

The first test came in the Energy and Commerce Committee, where Blue Dogs held up a final vote in an effort to wrangle concessions from Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), himself a progressive caucus member.

On July 29, after days of delay, Waxman reached a deal to move the bill through the committee that would decouple the public option from Medicare's reimbursement rates - an element progressives consider crucial in getting the public plan on its feet.

Woolsey called the deal unacceptable. That evening 30 caucus members showed up for a meeting and decided to circulate a letter opposing the agreement and reiterating their stand. The next day, the letter was out, with 57 signatures (it would grow to 60 in a few days) - warp speed for the slow-moving CPC.

The caucus also reached out to MoveOn.org, which notified its members of the letter and encouraged folks to go to the press conference announcing it. "We let [our members] know there were people standing up for them," said MoveOn's Ilyse Hogue. "Looking from the outside in, I'm definitely seeing an increased understanding of the power progressives can wield on the inside working in coordination with outside progressive forces."

"There are certainly some of us who have come from those outside groups and have made a point in increasing communication with the outside groups," said Rep. Donna Edwards (D-Md.), a caucus vice-chair who previously worked for Public Citizen and The Arca Foundation, among others.

Three House committees have passed health care bills, which will be merged into one. Progressives are now pushing to strip the Energy and Commerce deal with Blue Dogs from the final package. Enough Blue Dogs back the public option that Democrats have enough votes to pass it on the House floor.

That's what Pelosi wants. "She told us," said Ellison. "'I myself am not in favor of a plan without a public option, so you guys we consider allies in this thing."

"I don't care what their deal was in Energy and Commerce," said Grijalva. "It's not binding on us and the difference between the progressive caucus and the Blue Dogs is that we deliver votes. They don't."

The conventional wisdom says that the public option will be removed in conference committee negotiations between the House and the Senate, perhaps replaced by a cooperative model. Progressives have reiterated in a letter signed by 60 members that their pledge includes the vote on the final conference package.

"We've done our compromising and we're not compromising any more. We've got our shot. Let somebody else show some flexibility now," said Ellison.

Hamsher and other bloggers are working to put the members' commitment on the record so that they can be rewarded if they follow through and punished if they don't.

"The key is carrots and not just sticks," said DailyKos contributing editor Joan McCarter, who broke the original whip list. "I am pleased to see them have this much backbone and probably like everyone else a little uncertain they can keep it up. But they're committed now."

The bloggers, with the help of MoveOn, launched a fundraising effort to thank the members who had taken the pledge. In just a few days, it raised more than $400,000 from nearly 7,000 donors.

"I think it's amazing," said Edwards. "I have been buoyed by the outpouring of support from outside groups."

Now that the progressives have dug in, they risk being rolled back into the wilderness if they cave. If they succeed in driving the bill left, however, they'll firmly establish their power in Congress.

Grijalva said he and others been eying the health care fight as a chance to establish the authority of caucus since the beginning of the year. "People have understood that this was not only a value statement that we had to stick to, but it was also, to put it in a really blunt sense, an opportunity to show that the caucus was going to be a real player in how policies get shaped and that's what we're trying to do," he said.

If they don't, watch out. "The progressives aren't actually bluffing," said Darcy Burner. But, she added, "If the House gets rolled, that sets a problematic precedent."

Individual members could be targeted. "Nobody ever talks about primarying progressives, but I could see it this time around," said McCarter. Hamsher said she would "absolutely" support primary challenges of progressives who broke their pledges.

As the prospect of a bipartisan bill fades, progressives hope their hand will be increasingly strengthened as Obama realizes where his allies are. "The White House does not know how to use the progressive community. They see us as kind of money in the kitty already," said Ellison. "The White House should be saying to the Blue Dogs and to the right wing, 'I cannot give you what you want because I have a progressive community that we're accountable to.'"

The key, said Ellison, is to keep that community organized. "We've got to get comfortable being in power and realize that power is not a bad thing," he said.

But even Edwards hedged a bit when asked by HuffPost if she was firm in her commitment to oppose a bill that comes out of conference without a public option.

"Let me just say this," she said. "I believe that there is widespread support for the public option, so I want to discuss how we get from the politics of where we are right now to achieving the thing that we know is widely supported in the Democratic caucus and also widely supported around the country. And I don't think you do that unless you get a bill out of the House of Representatives that has a solid public option in it, because you don't bargain the opposite direction in the Senate. So we need to make sure we have the strongest bill possible out of the House of Representatives. I know that there's support for the public option and I fully expect that to be a part of the bill that we pass out of the House. And that in itself will be the leverage to achieve it in the final product."

Ryan Grim is the author of This Is Your Country On Drugs: The Secret History of Getting High in America

The White House expressed surprise last week that the "left of the left" had clung so forcefully to the public insurance option as a must-have element of health care reform. Some old hands in the admi...
The White House expressed surprise last week that the "left of the left" had clung so forcefully to the public insurance option as a must-have element of health care reform. Some old hands in the admi...
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Blue Dogs, the CPC and leaders not committing to stand up for the people that put them there. Almost sounds more like a story about gangs and police chiefs than a healthcare debate and whether or not progressives will hold strong behind the public option.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 AM on 08/28/2009
- truthglow I'm a Fan of truthglow 10 fans permalink

And Obama needs to listen carefully to these people, because they represent the largest faction of the country, which includes HIS BASE! We will not be pacified with anything but the REAL THING!!! We are the majority, and we vote in large numbers. We see what our representatives have been doing, taking bribes from insurance and pharmaceutical companies (to say nothing of big oil and other corporations), and we don't like it one bit!!! We are spreading the word, and we will act out our anger in the next election. Obama had better listen to US, rather than the banks and the Republcans he has been attempting to court, because a NEW DAY IS COMING, FILLED WITH THE RANKS OF THE EDUCATED, NON-SPIN PROOF MAJORITY, & WE EXPECT OUR NEEDS TO BE MET (OR ELSE)!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 08/27/2009
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Well said! Thank goodness for the power of the internet - it's helping to move politics away from the spin-zone into the politics of reality.

I'm just endlessly shocked that the Democrats, including Obama, seem to be using the Republicans as scapegoats. We don't need one Republican vote to pass this legislation, let's get it done!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 AM on 08/28/2009
- warlover I'm a Fan of warlover 4 fans permalink

Once you talk about dropping the public option than support among Republicans go up indicating they do want healthcare reform but than support from Democrats go through the floor, Both Democrats and insurance companies would rather have no healthcare reform than reform without a public option. So who's side you on insurance companies or Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 08/26/2009
- oldngrumpy I'm a Fan of oldngrumpy 242 fans permalink
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If Republicans wanted real reform they would present a bill that actually accomplishes something besides shoveling our treasury to the investment class with tax cuts and credits that do nothing for the working poor that make up the lion's share of the uninsured. Obstruction will be the Republican game until they can regain the power in government.

They know that a full scale rebuilding of health care will not be easily undone and it is their intention to blockade change. They know the stats and facts of the issue but chose to protect their corporate special interests above the good of the nation. The challenge for Democrats is to govern in such a manner as to disarm their criticism and expose their lies that might lure voters to change the balance of power.

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and say that I am suspicious of the economic meltdown that was perfectly timed to make it difficult for Democrats to change unregulated capitalism. $550 billion was transferred out of the economy shortly before Bush and Paulson announced the demise of our economy and the need for $700 billion in emergency funding. If this wasn't a sham by the financial powers to declaw Obama it was a perfectly timed coincidence for them. It could even be laid at the feet of Fanny and Freddie, and working people's home ownership to the non curious and low information American voter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 08/26/2009
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Sounds like a retread of SS reform from 2005. The minority party offering NO input, and spending all their time scaring seniors and tee-ing off on the hapless President and majority party in Congress trying to do something good for the country.

Back then the minority rode their obstruction to big wins in the next election. Turnabout is fair play.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 08/26/2009
- vet64 I'm a Fan of vet64 18 fans permalink

Americans voted for change. If the Conflict of Interest and Collusion challenged Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of our government won't give it to us, it is time to replace them.
86% of Americans want the public option. It is time for the crooks to be driven out of Washington.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 08/26/2009
- roscoeman I'm a Fan of roscoeman 11 fans permalink
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Ladies and Gentleman, on this falls fight card:

It's the CPC vs DLC
It's Howard Dean vs Rahm Emanuel with Barack Obama as the referee
it's Barack's Harvard Education vs his Progressive upbringing
It's 70% of the American People vs Intrenched Special Interests
It's the Moral Authority vs Dickensonian Capitalism

Can't wait to see how this one comes out

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 08/26/2009
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Ted Kennedy died last night...he worked his whole life for universal healthcare...and he was willing to get some and build on it. We need healthcare, not a celebration because we stood our ground and got nothing for those in need. get what we can...get more good Democrats and get more passed. Because right now the cost of all or nothing can mean less Dems back after the midterms and how will that help anyone?

Rahm knows what is going on...and he is a fighter. But he also knows how the wind is blowing...we need to win the war not just a battle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 08/26/2009
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I'm a Left Wing Liberal and I will no more be bullied by The Right. It's over for them. The Right can just move to another country if they don't like what we do here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 08/26/2009
- socalgal38 I'm a Fan of socalgal38 48 fans permalink
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wow the last sentence is the same thing i heard when the repubs were in control.

The health care issue has been debated to death. In the meantime tens of thousands are dying a yr from a lack of health care. Both parties should get it done and done without all the sweetheart deals for the insurance company. The free enterprise system does not work when it is dealing with human life.

When does life become less important than making a profit? Since when does death discriminate against party lines? Are republicans immuned to getting cancer or better treatment from insurance companies? This is a human rights issue for heavens sakes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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I dont know what country would accept them. We wont up north and neither would any of the UK and they h8 all non-white people. Only choice is going to be outerspace

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 08/26/2009
- Sandy972 I'm a Fan of Sandy972 19 fans permalink

There are millions of progressives out here. Just help us get organized and give us a place to go where the rest of the world can see where we stand. We need to be seen and heard, not just on a Huffington Post Blog, but on the television every day. Please.....Move On .Org is having a big rally in Austin, TX. From 3 to 6 pm at the First United Meth. Church, a big one, on Sat., Aug. 29. If you live in Texas, find out about it and go. Please guys, we have to do this so everything else that needs to be done can be seen as possible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 08/26/2009
- socalgal38 I'm a Fan of socalgal38 48 fans permalink
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I am just now hearing about this. I can't get off for that rally

I plan to attend the rally for HR676 in Washington DC on sept 13th I am hoping that people that are fed up with all this will be at both rallies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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KrugnacThe­Magnificen­t I'm a Fan of KrugnacThe­Magnificen­t 44 fans permalink

According to CBO, the average large private insurer has TOTAL overhead of 7%, including salaries, severance, profits, taxes, etc. Medicare's overhead is 5-6% when you include the in-kind expenses that are not shown on their own books.

Where's the beef?
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This was such an intentional inaccuracy i had to make a new post, and all this info is from the article you posted

"When the Congressional Budget Office examined this issue, it found that administrative costs -- including advertising and profits -- accounted for 12 percent of the average insurer's dollar. But that hid substantial variation among insurers. Among employer-based plans, the largest firms had the lowest costs. Plans covering companies with at least 1,000 employees had a mere 7 percent in administrative costs. Those covering companies with fewer than 25 employees spent 26 percent of premiums on administration. And the individual market was a mess: 30 percent."

Nice try at spinning i have to admit

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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Here is some more info from your link

"But administrative costs among payers -- that is to say, insurers -- are only part of the story. And they may not even be the most important part. The hospitals and physicians who have to deal with these payers are spending tremendous sums of money too. Hospitals have billing departments. They employ people to argue over claims and navigate the rules of the dozen or so different insurance plans they contract with. And here the experts were unanimous: The problem is that the system is fractured. There's no standardization. Remember the old Tolstoy quote, every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way? Well, every insurer is complicated in its own way. And that complexity costs a lot of money."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 08/26/2009

I can directly attest to that. I manage a cancer research lab that has recently begun offering genetic analysis of cancers to help the oncologists make choices in what chemotherapies and targeted agents to use. Medicare sets a reimbursement rate that turns out to be just about exactly what the test costs in material and labor. For insurance billing....we have to set the rate at 350-400% higher, because some insurance companies reimburse ANY medical service at 25-30% of the billed amount. A medical service provider has to massively overcharge just to break even. Imagine how much private, for-profit medical service providers are inflating their bills. Again I say...we dont have a problem with health CARE in this country, we have a problem with health INSURANCE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 08/26/2009
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Exactly! One Canadian put it best - she said she used both Canadian and US health care. Her Canadian doctor worked 35 hours per week and billed ONE payer online. Her US doctor worked 70 hours/week. 35 hours of patients, and 35 hours of haggling with insurance companies. It's a broken system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 AM on 08/28/2009
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It's no spin at all. We don't have a government insurance plan that caters to individuals or small businesses, so we can't determine what level of overhead is appropriate.

However, we DO have numerous large government plans against which to compare large insurance companies, and the private insurers match up very well.

You can lead a lib to truth, but you can't make him think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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Medicare does not cover individuals?

Why would a government plan covering small business and all individuals have any higher overhead than medicare?

And it was spin you intentionally misqouted the article, i posted the exact quote

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 08/26/2009
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um, no they don't match up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 08/26/2009
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Republicans have their own set of facts...their truth is movable, which enables them to always speak with conviction. That is why 58% of republicans watch Fox News...it falls in line with their idea of what Fair and Balanced is.
They whine because the Democrats will not let them have any say about bills..which really means that the Dems will not roll over and let it be a republican bill. ..and have only allowed 160 ammendments and not the whole thing.

Medicare has an administrative cost of 2 to 3% while private insurance is any where between 10 to 25% and getting higher all the time. Rates are going up where businesses are leaving here and going to Canada and thosands are losing healthcare every day...and thosands die of simple illnesses because of not haveing care.

So you folks that do not want a government healthcare option to add to the choice of private... don't choose it. The rest of us want the choice, if I am going to pay taxes, I want to see where they are going.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 08/26/2009
- oldngrumpy I'm a Fan of oldngrumpy 242 fans permalink
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"However, we DO have numerous large government plans against which to compare large insurance companies, and the private insurers match up very well."

So, what's you beef with a government public option? Why are your knickers in such a knot to block something that, by your own numbers, isn't going to change anything?

I think you, and the rest of the paid posters here, know that the public option is going to expose such larceny and force such drastic change that the industry is willing to bet the farm on stopping it. There is too much of a flurry among the corrupt right wing politicians to believe that this is of little consequence to the insurers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 08/26/2009
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Wow - you got nailed intentionally misquoting statistics and you still claim to be right. It's typical for Republicans, they exist in a fantasy world these days.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 AM on 08/28/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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And yet some more info from your article including the studies link

"As of now, no one I spoke with knew of good data separating the costs of dealing with Medicare and with private insurers. But there are studies comparing Canada and the United States that show a single payer vastly reduces administrative spending. Few think we could achieve those savings today, even if we did convert entirely to a single payer. But there's certainly a level of savings between here and there that we could reach."

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/349/8/768

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 08/26/2009
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I don't support a monopoly, you guys do. I support a free and fair market.

While you're all waxing eloquent over how great a monopoly would be, I simply pointed out that a private monopoly would be even better.

A free and fair market is better than either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 08/26/2009

"Free and fair marketplace" works great for cars.....if I have an excutive level salary, I buy a new luxury german car, if I am working-class, I buy a Toyota or a Honda. That model applied to healthcare means that if I am an executive with cancer, I get the latest tests, targeted therapy and full support care. If I am working class and have cancer, the insurance company tells me to go home and die because all that stuff would cut into their profits. Its reasonable to tell someone they cant have a Mercedes because they dont make $200K a year....but when you tell someone they cant have chemotherapy because they dont make that much.....well that seems a different story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 08/26/2009
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I support VA-for-all, using all the taxes we currently pay for gov't health insurance to fund it.

The VA succeeds where Medicare fails. I'm shocked that so many liberals ignore the VA's success in favor of Medicare's track record of insolvency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 08/26/2009
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Like Wall Street or the Banks?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 08/26/2009
- BLBass I'm a Fan of BLBass 32 fans permalink

This whole article is great. But while I was smiling to see this story, of all things, about a traditionally quiet asset of the progressive community, Keith Ellison's quote just made my day:

"The White House should be saying to the Blue Dogs and to the right wing, 'I cannot give you what you want because I have a progressive community that we're accountable to.'"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 08/26/2009
- rchwel I'm a Fan of rchwel 3 fans permalink

I just recieved this from Move on .com Our beloved Sen Kennedy and the reason we should fight on in his memory.http://pol.moveon.org/kennedy/?id=17001-6761010-SSj1iOx&t=2

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 08/26/2009
- cadawa I'm a Fan of cadawa 21 fans permalink
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It's about time. They could have done this years ago.
We need to support them demand they need to hang tough.
If Obama was a smart as they say he is, he would join hands with them.
So far he has done nothing to distinguish himself from Bush.
Passing a decent health care bill could save his bacon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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KrugnacThe­Magnificen­t I'm a Fan of KrugnacThe­Magnificen­t 44 fans permalink

"Insurance companies provide innovation. Even liberals have admitted this, and used it as an argument that "the strong will survive"."
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Wow i missed this post,

No one has every admitted insurance companies provide innovation. They stifle it, how many "acquisitions" did UHC make last year?

Insurance companies were supposed to be there to lower the costs of healthcare by spreading it around. Now there are just there to make profits.

All innovation comes from R&D which insurance companies do none of

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 08/26/2009
- lj9283 I'm a Fan of lj9283 67 fans permalink
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In at least 21 states, one carrier controls more than half the market.

More than half of the market is controlled by two carriers in at least 39 states.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/06/pdf/health_competitiveness.pdf

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 08/26/2009
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That proves nothing. Those with a large market share must remain competitive in order to avoid losing it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 08/26/2009
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Not true. HMO's in Grand Junction spearheaded reform there. Many HMOs and non-profits have spearheaded changes to pay their doctors salaries rather than fee-for-service.

Private insurers have been using "evidence based medicine" for years to decide which procedures are justified and which aren't. The government is just now coming around to take a look at some of these innovations, years later.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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"Private insurers have been using "evidence based medicine" for years to decide which procedures are justified and which aren't."

Isnt this the "rationing" you all are afraid the government is going to do?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 08/26/2009
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Did ladybastet, rightie?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 08/26/2009

Yea, "evidence-based medicine"....like the HMO a couple of years back that declared a woman's needed liver transplant was actually "experimental". They insisted so until she became terminal, and reversed that decision only after she was put on life support and expected to live only hours.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 08/26/2009

R&D paid for in part by premiums collected by private insurers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 08/26/2009
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cite? facts?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 08/26/2009
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i have finally found some HOPE!!! be strong CPC, "they" will come gunning from you (and the "they" means blue dogs, rahmbo, "fierce advocate", AND re publi CONS).

time to take our party back and restore our platform!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/26/2009

I'm going to ask the question again, If group rates are the answer to lowering healthcare than what could be better than a policy with say 50 million or 100 million or better still 300 million Americans in it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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The nay sayers probably wont answer, if they do it'll be something against the government nothing to do with healthcare or your question

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 08/26/2009

Right but I never used the word goverment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 08/26/2009
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You don't need a government monopoly to do that. You could grant a private insurer a monopoly and achieve the same result.

The difference would be that the private monopoly would have an incentive to demand the lowest possible price, while the government monopoly would not.

Also, the private monopoly would always be looking for more ways to innovate and optimize their administration in order to drive down costs further, while the government would stagnate.

There's no such thing as a benign government monopoly. Just look at the mess we have now with Medicare and Medicaid. They keep their nominal administrative costs low, but allow such stunning inefficiencies that Obama's now saying he can extract $500 billion from Medicare and divert it to other spending without affecting its ability to deliver health care. Stunning ineptness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 08/26/2009
- Phreaked I'm a Fan of Phreaked 54 fans permalink
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"Also, the private monopoly would always be looking for more ways to innovate and optimize their administration in order to drive down costs further, while the government would stagnate."

As shown with UHC they do not work on driving down overhead, if they did they wouldn't have been paying their CEO $124 mill a year with a $1.1 billion severance package

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 08/26/2009

So your idea is to create a private monopoly, and what happens when the raise their rates because they have no compatition?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 08/26/2009
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So as far as the mess medicare is in? Tell me what elderly person that has had medicare to rely on would get out of it? Which mom whose child has been denied care because the private plan does not cover what that child needs..would dump it in a minute for a gov healthcare like medicare?

Inefficiency can be fixed..but greed and selfishness is part of capitalism. Profits are the goal for private insurances, not healthcare...it is just a means to the goal.

Obama wants to bring cost saving efficiencies to medicare without takeing one wit of care from those who depend on it. Effiency can make for better care, not less, while saving the out of pocket for those in medicare and for the tax payer. Why is it the people who are shouting NO! to reform are working against their own best interest? I bet they also believed Saddam was the cause of 9-11, as they sent their children off to die in Iraq.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 08/26/2009
- clutchkill I'm a Fan of clutchkill 5 fans permalink
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God bless the CPC. I no longer send any money to the DNC but rather to Act Blue because that way I know my money will go to the ones who will truely fight for me and not falter in the face of fear like O bama and the moderate dems have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 08/26/2009

We lost a great man in Kennedy yesterday - and one of our greatest champions of health care reform. It has become even more important than ever that we get this done! And rightfully call it the TeddyPlan in honor of the man who made this his life's work!

We cannot let the scare tactics dissuade us from reaching our goal!

While many of us are struggling to afford medical insurance/medical bills.

While Congress people try to stop healthcare reform.

While Congress people accept large contributions from lobbyists to prevent health care reform.

Our elected officials in Congress receive health care mostly paid for by us tax payers, yet many are trying to make it impossible for us to purchase an affordable plan of our own.

http://www.petitiononline.com/PubOp676/petition.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 08/26/2009
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