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Madonna Booed In Bucharest For Defending Gypsies

ALINA WOLFE MURRAY   08/27/09 06:14 PM ET   AP

Madonna

BUCHAREST, Romania — At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies – and the cheers gave way to jeers.

The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe.

Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent.

Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies.

"There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog," Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday.

Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions.

Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000.

Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage.

That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show – a stop on her worldwide "Sticky and Sweet" tour – to touch on their plight.

"It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe," she said. "It made me feel very sad."

Thousands booed and jeered her.

A few cheered when she added: "We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone." But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others.

"I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things?" said Ionut Dinu, 23.

Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu.

Her publicist, Liz Rosenberg, said Madonna and other had told her there were cheers as well as jeers.

"Madonna has been touring with a phenomenal troupe of Roma musicians who made her aware of the discrimination toward them in several countries so she felt compelled to make a brief statement," Rosenberg said in an e-mail. "She will not be issuing a further statement."

One Roma musician said the attitude toward Gypsies is contradictory.

"Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts," said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winner who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker.

"But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK," he told the AP in an interview. "The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people are equal, and that is the message politicians must give."

Nearly one in two of Europe's estimated 12 million Roma claimed to have suffered an act of discrimination over the past 12 months, according to a recent report by the Vienna-based EU Fundamental Rights Agency. The group says Roma face "overt discrimination" in housing, health care and education.

Many do not have official identification, which means they cannot get social benefits, are undereducated and struggle to find decent jobs.

Roma children are more likely to drop out of school than their peers from other ethnic groups. Many Romanians label Gypsies as thieves, and many are outraged by those who beg or commit petty crimes in Western Europe, believing they spoil Romania's image abroad.

In May 2007, Romanian President Traian Basescu was heard to call a Romanian journalist a "stinky Gypsy" during a conversation with his wife. Romania's anti-discrimination board criticized Basescu, who later apologized.

Human rights activists say the attacks in Hungary, which began in July 2008, may be tied to that country's economic crisis and the rising popularity of far-right vigilantes angered by a rash of petty thefts and other so-called "Gypsy crime." Last week, police arrested four suspects in a nightclub in the eastern city of Debrecen.

Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Slovakia also have been criticized for widespread bias against Roma.

Madonna's outrage touched a nerve in Romania, but it seems doubtful it will change anything, said the Soros Foundation's Motoc.

"Madonna is a pop star. She is not an expert on interethnic relations," he said.

___

AP Writers Alison Mutler in Bucharest, William J. Kole in Vienna and Nekesa Mumbi Moody in New York contributed to this report.

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BUCHAREST, Romania — At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies – an...
BUCHAREST, Romania — At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies – an...
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Yank in France
Thomas Paine, expat in France 1792-1802
01:44 PM on 09/01/2009
Sorry, folks, but the gypsy thing is just out of the American knowmedge zone. We Americans are against racism, but gypsies are not African-Americans or Chicanos. They could integrate into societies without assimilating, but they more often than not choose a lifestyle that entails begging and robbing or both. It is easy to defend the Gypsies, but wait until a group of them sets up a squat in your neighborhood, and wel'll how people react.
In France, Arabs in the tough suburban neighborhoods really hate Gypsies because they...feel victimized by their criminal behavior. Just look at the mass rioting in Perpignan near the Spanish border.
04:41 AM on 09/15/2009
Ridiculous opinion; one I've also often heard in the Czech Republic. You don't think that African Americans still suffer the same kind of stereotyping? Unfortunately for the Roma they do not want to assimilate or integrate themselves into the societies in which they live, which makes it much more difficult for them as a group. The poverty (begging) and criminal behaviour of the Roma can be linked to the fact that it is often difficult for them to get jobs, decent housing and residency/proper documentation due to racial/ethnic discrimination. It is worse for them than for many Latinos and Blacks in the US, simply because they refuse to give up their national identity and way of life. Nationalism based on language and culture is much more prevalent in Europe than in the US and therefore creates a more difficult climate for "outsiders". They are a people without a nation, much unlike African Americans, who can claim to be the originators of many aspects of American culture and trace the roots of their families who lived on American soil many more generations back than many white Americans can. The Roma are forced to live on the fringe of society and take what they can get, often resorting to crime, making their children work at a young age, etc. all in an effort to survive. The countries in which the Roma people live are at least as responsible for the plight of the Roma as the Roma are themselves.
04:42 AM on 09/15/2009
I had my passport and wallet stolen in Rome, Italy by a gang of little Gyspy children, so I know people are having bad experiences with Gypsies all the time. But everyone should realize that given the right conditions, the Roma are people like you and me, not somehow genetically predisposed to be criminals, and they deserve basic rights.
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patrickjkiger
11:37 AM on 09/01/2009
I'm not a Madonna fan, but good for her.
05:51 PM on 08/31/2009
Actually saying the "whole thing is not about discriminataion but the life style they choose" is a bit lacking. It would be like two football teams on a field - one cared for, served in fact by the other for hundreds of years, abused, forced to intermarry, register for work, murdered, ethnically cleansed, because of their bloodline, -or someone's bigotry, made house slaves and field slaves and then one day saying --it's all equal and why can't you guys just measure up like the rest of society?

Point of departure matters. It is not just about equal opportunity it's about access to the qualifications to that opportunity.

Insight from an American Roma-- Really!
04:04 PM on 08/28/2009
"Madonna is a pop star. She is not an expert on interethnic relations," said [the Soros Foundation's Motoc]

That's all that needed to be said.
Let's vogue!
04:55 PM on 08/28/2009
Agree! My guess is that Madonna knows very little about gypsies and maybe has romantic notions of beautiful beggars in caravans wearing embroidered blouses. That's far from the truth. I DOUBT that someone who walks around with bodyguards knows much. My family is from Croatia and we've had bad encounters, and hence, there is a fear of them.

It has less to do with race than lifestyle. There are different ethnic groups in this region: Croats, Slavs, Slovenes, Roma, but, these are a fiction. They are all, more or less, Caucasians. And most groups have intermarried extensively. My own family has married with Turks when they occupied this region. So, the whole "racial" aspect of these battles are fiction. This is not to say that these groups are not "racist" because they are. They have made-up ideas about Muslims and Jews, which are VERY racist. The whole thing against gypsies is more about lifestyle some choose: con-artists, thieves, Some of the gypsies--when given a hand--will quit this lifestyle. That's what happened in our town. A few were able to send their kids to school, they bought a plot of land, and became farmers. No one bothered them after that. I don't know what it's like in Romania, as it's different in every region.

I don't think Madonna knows very much about these situations. Her motives are suspect. She has a long history of jumping on issues for attention.
05:41 PM on 08/31/2009
Actually saying the "whole thing is not about discriminataion but the life style they choose" is a bit lacking. It would be like two football teams on a field - one cared for, served in fact by the other for hundreds of years, abused, forced to intermarry, register for work, murdered, ethnically cleansed, because of their bloodline, -or someone's bigotry, made house slaves and field slaves and then one day saying --it's all equal and why can't you guys just measure up like the rest of society?

Point of departure matters. It is not just about equal opportunity it's about access to the qualifications to that opportunity.

Insight from an American Roma-- Really!
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Edogg62
02:05 PM on 08/28/2009
I think the headline "Madonna Booed" should suffice. And should be expected if it's related to an actual MUSIC concert that she's theoretically ACTIVELY involved in (vs. lips yncing). My GOD she's horrifically talentless and terribly irrelevant and pathetic. Oh, but wait... she's rich, so in THIS country that means she's worthy of our admiration. Nevermind...
01:56 PM on 08/28/2009
Some day the people from KFC are going to catch up with Madonna, as we all know she escaped the plucked chicken slaughter house for old chickens a few years ago. Those old plucked chickens are made into Mac Nuggets, if they don't get to her soon, she'll only be good for cattle feed.
01:04 PM on 08/28/2009
Maybe she should adopt some of their kids, skirt adoption laws using money, and parade them around like dolls.

Oh wait, that is just Africa.
01:06 PM on 08/28/2009
I think that's how she got her new 21 year-old boyfriend. Maybe his parents sold him to her. lol
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piul05
Can I have a biscuit yet?
12:37 PM on 08/28/2009
Good for her to speak her mind - it has to be said as many times as it takes until people get it ; even in liberal newspapers such as The Guardian, in Britain, it'ss amazing the kind of hatred people spew about gypsies and the very little indignation it arouses.

They are the most despised, discriminated against group in Europe where, somehow, it seems to be fair game; but Eastern Europeans are particularly virulent in their hatred of all things non-white (i.e. the Microsoft "compromise" in its Polish advertisement).

And yet, the EU think Turkey would be a problem and this xenophobic, ultra-nationalist, racist lot, aren't. Go figure...
11:25 AM on 08/28/2009
I see that everyone takes the part of gypsies. I have several qustions for you:
How many of you lived in Romania to see haw gypsies are treated? How many of you know that gypsies in Romania have educational rights meaning they have special places in highschools and universyties provided by the government? How many of you had you brother beaten to death in the streat for a cell phone? How many of you got robed on the street?... and the list can go on... So when you have the answers to all theese qustions, you may defend the rights of gypses and say that they are discriminated. The fact is that they don't want to work, go to school or to be integrated in the society...I'm sure Madonna's message was well intended, but I think that you shoul live with this problems everyday and than have an opinion, and say that they are discriminated.
12:49 PM on 08/28/2009
As an American having just returned from visiting friends in Romania and Bulgaria I can attest to just how complicated the gypsie question actually is. Madonna and other Americans should not be quick to cast the problem in terms of American archtypes. The problem is not the same as our country's civil rights movement and we should be careful not to try and force into that narrative. Americans would not tolerate a fraction of the conduct in which gyspies engage if it was in our own country. The answer may lie in solidifying the rule of law in countries like Romania and Bulgaria but that is for them to figure out on their own.
03:07 PM on 08/29/2009
I love how Europeans are so quick to criticize the US for treatment of minorities in the US, but can't stand it when someone points out the inequities ethnic minorities in their own countries have to face. You're argument that you have to live in Romania to uderstand the gyspsy situation is illogical. Did I have to live in Bosnia to understand Sarjevo? Berlin in the 1940s to understand concentration camps? Either discrimination is wrong or it isn't. Stop trying to justify your racism.
10:21 AM on 08/28/2009
Hatred of Roma isn't "entrenched" -- like some folklore.

Go to Budapest, Buenos Aires, Bucharest.... or just the underground of Paris.... take a few trips ... and then come back and tell me about this put upon minority.

when you've been ripped off by a 3 generation gang..... using their kids as bait and baby strollers for the loot.....

THEN come back and tell me about their redeeming qualities.

THE ROMA ARE REVILED FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR TODAY..... and TOMORROW

not some ancient blood feud.

5 and 6 year old kids -- rush you and steal anything they can get their hands on.... and then pass it off to their PARENTS!!!

They jump behind your car as you exit a parking spot..... and then roll around like they've been hit...

sorry guys.... this bunch is irredeemable in this life time.

The Navajos do this crap in Santa Fe to the tourists.... and they are hated for it as well.

the jumping behind the tourist vehicle is a great way to make a few hundred bucks.... tourists don't want you calling the cops....and are so stunned that they actually ran somebody over...

that they usually pay up.

check out the Denny's on Cerrillos Road on a Saturday night.... it's where they gather for the scam.

Ditto for late night breakfasts in Espanola...
10:08 AM on 08/28/2009
Part III
Aside from some NGOs that live mainly to call people racists, a Gypsy former senator who does the same thing and also tries to be on every TV show possible and the the mayor of a district in Bucharest there are no nationwide Gypsy people in the public/political life. That's why you won't see a Gypsy Barack Obama here anytime soon.
While many of us see the situation of Gypsies as a national problem it is rarely discussed, it comes up in press from time to time when some tragic stuff happens like this poor Gypsy guy who drowned to save a kid from drowning in some village which started a wave of compassion only to be swept away later by the usual news about Gypsy clans fighting with swords and axes in the streets of major cities (i'm not kidding).
Another thing that is very important to the situation of Gypsies here is their willing forced separation of the mainstream cultural norms and laws. Traditional Gypsy families forcibly marry their kids somewhere between the ages of 5 (yes five) and 15 through interfamily agreements. Years of public and government pressure did nothing to stop this. Gypsy clans kidnapping your girls from rival clans for marriage is not an uncommon thing. This and many other particularites that seem from the middle ages make coexistance very hard. Still there are alot of integrated families that follow the modern social norms and do not adhere to these barbaric practices.
10:07 AM on 08/28/2009
Part II:
Third, people came to a concert that was marketed as being on par with the MJ's 2 concerts in Bucharest in 92 and 96 or the Rolling Stones 1 or 2 years ago. It was nowhere near those but still Madonna showed she is a great entertainer and can do a nice event but she's no MJ. So the people coming to a concert ended up being schooled in the middle of the show on how to treat minorities by a hypocritical Madonna, being basically lumped together as racists, treated like 2nd class Europeans like we are so used to. People come to a Madonna concert to be aroused, scandalized, provoked not schooled by a chick in underwear. I hope this sheds some light into the issue of the concert itself.
I read all the comments up before writing this one, someone mentioned education. We have some form of Affirmative Action in education here in Romania, the Gypsies cand enroll in high school and universities without exams and without paining tuition. They rarely do it, it is seen a a form of "acting white", I had more Nigerian and other African students in my university than Gypsies. Thus while Gypsies represent around 10% of the population here they are virtually absent from public life.
10:05 AM on 08/28/2009
Part I:
As a Romanian myself I want to tell you that the issue of discrimination here is not black and white as some of the somewhat naive people that comment here painted it. First of all a few things to familiarize you with the concert in Bucharest:
First, Madonna's concert was poorly organized overall, it started late, many people were not able to see much of the concert because it was held in park, huge queues, dust, etc. After DJ Paul Oakenfold's opening set ended we waited another hour till Madonna got on stage, that's when the first booing started.
Second, Madonna was a hypocrite when she said that the Gypsies are discriminated in Eastern Europe, they are discriminated in all of Europe, check the recent incidents in Belfast for example, only that the Western European media loves to school and chastise the Eastern European countries on how they deal with Gypsies. When Gypsy immigrants started pouring into Western countries in the late 90's and early 2000's they also learned that the issue is not black/white at all.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VivaZapata
09:43 AM on 08/28/2009
On the same day that Madonna was booed for defending the rights of a minority population, Michael Vick, dog slaughterer extraordinaire, was cheered by Eagle fans, anticipating a Superbowl season. Booing people is disgusting, even people who put on cheezy, glitzy pop shows.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
seachild
06:11 AM on 08/28/2009
they like the music, but not the musicians

sounds familiar
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VivaZapata
09:43 AM on 08/28/2009
it's cause they're "running on empty."