Politics In The Doctor's Office?

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - Politics In The Doctor's Office? stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS


First Posted: 08-27-09 05:20 PM   |   Updated: 08-28-09 12:02 PM

I Like ItI Don’t Like It
Funny Skeleton

Shirley Rish of Mesa, Ariz., met with an orthopedic specialist earlier this month hoping for relief from some pain in her wrist. Instead, she received an unwanted dose of politics.

"Well, we're in a box, because I can't give you a cortisone shot, because of the valley fever," the specialist said, according to Rish, who had recently recovered from valley fever. "Your valley fever doctor would not be happy with me. But we're lucky we're not in the Obama box, because if we were, I couldn't treat you because you're over 70."

"I could not believe my ears," Rish said in an interview with the Huffington Post. She took what the doctor said to be a version of the false "death panel" propaganda spread by opponents of health care reform. She told him she disagreed. "I'm 74, but I'm not stupid," she said.

The orthopedist, Dr. Ralph V. Wilson, did not return calls left with his assistant. Annette Procknow, practice administrator of the orthopedic office where he works, said she wouldn't comment, citing doctor-patient confidentiality. But she didn't shy away from talking about health care reform.

"It's a very emotional situation for lots of people, and here in Arizona we have so many senior patients, and it's also a big thing to our physicians who are trying to treat patients," Procknow said. "The number of Canadian patients we see in our office during the winter time for joint replacements is incredible, because they can't get it done in Canada with their socialistic medicine... People are only hearing certain things that are coming out from Obama, and our physicians know that."

HuffPost readers: Have you talked politics with your doctor? Has your doc spoken negatively or positively about health care reform? Tell us about it! Email arthur@huffingtonpost.com.

American Medical Association policy says physicians have a responsibility to keep themselves informed and "to work for the reform of, and to press for the proper administration of, laws that are related to health care." And they should tell their patients:

"It is natural that in fulfilling these political responsibilities, physicians will express their views to patients or their families," the policy says. "However, communications by telephone or other modalities with patients and their families about political matters must be conducted with the utmost sensitivity to patients' vulnerability and desire for privacy. Conversations about political matters are not appropriate at times when patients or families are emotionally pressured by significant medical circumstances. Physicians are best able to judge both the intrusiveness of the discussion and the patient's level of comfort. In general, when conversation with the patient or family concerning social, civic, or recreational matters is acceptable, discussion of items of political import may be appropriate."

Story continues below
advertisement

Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, said the AMA's policy is too generous.

"Doctors can be political, but they have to keep it in the waiting room. It should not ever be in the clinical setting. You've gotta keep it informational," he said. "The patients are vulnerable because they want to please the doctor... You don't want to irritate your doctor when you're in your little half-naked nightgown and you try to find out if the doctor will see you again about your defibrillating heart."

Rish, a retiree and a widow who volunteered for both the Kerry and Obama campaigns, sent her physician an angry letter.

"I am extremely well informed, and I know that you are one of those peddling lies that are preventing much needed health care reform," the letter said. "I believe that your comment was intended to intimidate and frighten an elderly patient. I don't doubt that you make that kind of comment to all of your elderly patients. Your comment was unethical and immoral. Those opposing health care reform are motivated by greed, ignorance, or stupidity. I have to assume that in your case, it's not ignorance or stupidity.

"I was terribly upset when I left your office. Please stop perpetuating those kinds of lies."

Get HuffPost Politics On Facebook and Twitter!

Shirley Rish of Mesa, Ariz., met with an orthopedic specialist earlier this month hoping for relief from some pain in her wrist. Instead, she received an unwanted dose of politics. "Well, we're in a...
Shirley Rish of Mesa, Ariz., met with an orthopedic specialist earlier this month hoping for relief from some pain in her wrist. Instead, she received an unwanted dose of politics. "Well, we're in a...
Report Corrections
 
Comments
2543
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next › Last » (38 pages total)
- Tages72 I'm a Fan of Tages72 18 fans permalink
photo

What kind of madness is this? How far can a person go to protect their selfish interests? My doctor does not even know whether I am a Democrat or Republican, yet he spoke to me as if we were fighting a revolution with Obama as the evil dictator. He tossed the word "power" around as if this were Stalin's Russia.

I am disgusted, enfuriated, disenchanted, and mad as hell in general. My tachycardia has only grown worse for the whole, sordid experience. If ever I thought there could be room for compromise with the Republicans, that hope is now lost. My doctor has not gained a convert today, he just lost a patient and turned him into a rabid political opponent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 09/02/2009
- Tages72 I'm a Fan of Tages72 18 fans permalink
photo

It just happened to me today. My doctor, a man who never touched on personal matters in all the years I've known him, just gave me a half-hour indoctrination about the Socialist takeover of America. I went in for tachycardia treatment and nearly had a coronary! I depend on this man for my prescriptions, all five of them. He never speaks about his family or anything other than the state of my condition.

Today, he unleashed a barrage of attacks on Obama, the Democrats, and anything leftist. He praised Reagan and Bush as having done "the best job" in running the country, he bitched about taxes, how Socialists want to take over business, how he shouldn't have had to pay for the bank and automobile bailouts, he even told me about Obama's secret plan to brainwash "our children" into following "their ideas" to raise a future generation of Socialist/­Communists­. He played the Death Panel card, the "kill Grandma" card, anything and everything proved fair game.

In the span of half an hour, I went from trusting my doctor to wanting to punch his lights out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 PM on 09/02/2009
photo

Capitalist Republic -- On to a social democracy

Before we can get healthcare for all, which is charity for the poor healthcare, which is socialist healthcare, we first need to abolish our capitalist Republic.

For a capitalist Republic, like our 1776 Republic, is the unregulated freedom to compete for excessive wealth. The reverse of equality and the total destruction of democracy.

Whereas social democracy is the freedom to not compete, and in so doing have equal wealth. Such as Venezuela since President Hugo Chávez took office, for Chávez has put into place nation healthcare for all and reduced poverty by 30%. For most in Venezuela predict that his goal to eliminate all poverty will be reached in our lifetime.

For our capitalist Republic has just installed a coup dictatorship in Honduras, doubled its military power in Columbia, and knows full well that if it does not destroy social democracy in Venezuela, then such a good example would surely destroy it, and capitalism along with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 08/31/2009
photo

CORRECTION BELOW: 50% (FAT) diet

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 08/30/2009
photo

Forget healthcare -- Attack processed food industry

The processed food industry gives the average American a 50% diet, and in so doing cause over 90% of illness. Surely there is no way to reduce healthcare costs until we attack the root cause of all that fat clogging up our veins, heart, capillaries and thinking part of the brain.

REWARD: At the end of each year give those with no medical expenses a $2,000 reward. Goal being to cut in half the $8,000 a year we give to the medical industry for every man, woman and child in America.

PENALTY: Those with a diet of more then 25% fat must pay all medical expenses until their wealth is gone. For you have the freedom to enrich yourself upon rich food, and I have the freedom to not be made miserable by it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 08/30/2009

I was a rehab provider for 20 years. Private Medicare HMOs (Secure Horizons, FHP, etc) denied care to my patients all the time, despite the overwhelming evidence in my documentation (and a physician's order) for a good prognosis if care was continued.
Many of my patients were unable to discontinue tube-feeding and return to eating by mouth because a private insurance employee denied treatment, though I explained it would take only a few more sessions to accomplish it.
Such patients, more often tha not, ended up in nursing homes with public dollars spent for their care to never eat again..(formula for tube feeding- about $50/day)
The cost to return them to independence needed to go home, about $10,000, was far less than the 3-month cost of a "snake pit" nursing home.
Never, ever, was a patient denied such treatment under Medicare; Medicaid, either.
In a public hospital, none of my patients were denied what it took to meet their goals; oral feeding, return home, communicate, etc.
Patients are lured into substandard care in order to save, erroneously, healthcare dollars. My elderly aunt believes joining Secure Horizons is not using Medicare dollars and, "living off the government". She doesn't understand HMOs are capitated programs using Medicare dollars (the result? patients are denied their rights under Medicare). Despite numerous conversations where I pointed out the benefit of having Medicare vs. her HMO, she remains unconvinced. Sad for her if something like a stroke or traumatic brain injury happens...­..........­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 PM on 08/28/2009

It really is amazing that some of our elders have been caused confusion because of those who choose to lie and mislead! Thank you for your post, beyondliberal!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 PM on 08/28/2009

As Senator Kennedy said, “This is the cause of my life – new hope that we will break the old gridlock and guarantee that every American – north, south, east, west, young, old – will have decent, quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege.”
Kennedy was one of our greatest champions of health care reform. He carried the torch for a long time...and now it is up to us to continue to carry it for him!

We cannot let the scare tactics dissuade us from reaching our goal!

While many of us are struggling to afford medical insurance/medical bills.
While Congress people try to stop healthcare reform.
While Congress people accept large contributions from lobbyists to prevent health care reform.

Our elected officials in Congress receive health care mostly paid for by us tax payers, yet many are trying to make it impossible for us to purchase an affordable plan of our own.

Please sign these petitions! Thank you!

http://www.petitiononline.com/PubOp676/petition.html
http://www.democrats.com/honor-ted-kennedy?cid=ZGVtczQ0MTA5OGRlbXM=
http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/5649/t/4922/content.jsp?content_KEY=2763&tag=hk1_typ-e1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 08/28/2009
- POSC I'm a Fan of POSC permalink

Did he say these things before or after driving his car off a bridge with someone in it and not telling anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 08/28/2009

Shame on you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 08/28/2009

And you are bringing this up how many years later?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 08/28/2009
- annieR I'm a Fan of annieR 9 fans permalink

POSC, are you a Christian? If so, your religion professesthat redemption is for all. I wish that if I face judgment after death, in terms of redemption by good works, I could trade my balance of good and otherwise with Ted Kennedy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 08/30/2009

that's not a good doctor. he's a dangerous jerk overly concerned with his boat payments and his am radio shock-jocks. he's one of those who'd benefit the most from a public option. he'd only have one or two million dollar homes instead of the several he probably already has. poor baby. makes you want to run out and get john edwards to comb through his cases and sue the heck out of him. then, perhaps, he'd have a little less free time to listen to rush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:06 PM on 08/28/2009
photo

Doctah Doctah, gimme the NEWs
I gotta BAD CASE of lovin' YOU!

great post! :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 08/28/2009
- xraygrrl I'm a Fan of xraygrrl 28 fans permalink
photo

I'm Canadian and I also work in healthcare here. Don't believe any of these monstrous lies that naysayers are trying to feed you about our system of "Socialistic medicine". It is a safety net that no Canadian would ever want to do without. Our people are well taken care of here.
A lot of our elderly citizens like to spend their winters in places like Arizona...some even buy homes in these places. THAT is why they get their knee replacements done in the US. It is fully covered by our healthcare system too. Some of our wait times are a little longer than we would like...but that is for elective surgeries. Life threatening conditions are always put at the top of the list.
The major obstacle that we are dealing with right now is staffing shortages. It's a worldwide phenomenon. Now that the first wave baby boomer cohort is turning 65 soon....we are looking at large numbers of proffessionals retiring over the next 20 years. There aren't enough newly trained proffessionals coming in to replace them fast enough. As all these people age, they need more healthcare service. Canada isn't the only country dealing with this issue.
We have a good quality of life and NOBODY goes bankrupt if they fall ill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 08/28/2009
- MochasMom I'm a Fan of MochasMom 14 fans permalink
photo

Well said. Thank you for defending our health care system, and for all your hard work with patients every day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 08/28/2009
- GianRico I'm a Fan of GianRico 4 fans permalink

Doctors can be as political as any concern citizens. But ethics and integrity dictate that the clinical treatment room is not an appropriate venue. The patient is paying to get the best treatment available. Not to hear their doctor pontificating on his political leanings or any other none medical opinions.
Unfortunately, a lot of doctors' attitudes and mores are colored by their greed and lifestyle. Hence the arrogance of not valuing the patients' intelligence, knowledge, time or opinion.
My opinion is that most doctors who are against Health Care Reform have placed their pocketbooks concerns ahead of patients' welfare.
Reform is about making it more affordable for and available to all. Taking away the profit motive of the Ins. Cos. that is used to restrict access. To reduce waste and fraud from excessive paperwork and duplication of tests. And reduce the subsidies to hospitals and ins. cos.NOT to come between the patient and their doctors or curtail doctors income.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:31 PM on 08/28/2009
- JHKH I'm a Fan of JHKH 14 fans permalink

The sure sign of a bad doctor. If he were a good doctor, even with his halluciination that the "Obama box" would instruct him to not treat a 70-yr old, he would treat her regardless. Pro bono, if necessary. He proves that he only treats what he is adequately reimbursed for -- not what the medical circumstances indicate.

That is a quack. A mercenary quack.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 08/28/2009

I haven't read all the comments,so maybe someone's mentioned this already,but instead of flooding the doctor's office with letters,we(and the patients affected) should flood the state medical licensing board
with complaints regarding this unethical behavior. THAT will get the proper attention,­especially if the complaints are many. BTW- not surprising an orthopedic surgeon would be railing against this, since this specialty-highly overpaid- would stand to lose income under the new legislation,I'll wager! Does anyone know the Arizona State medical licensing board address, phone #, or email?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 08/28/2009
- Oldtt I'm a Fan of Oldtt 35 fans permalink
photo

It's probably a good idea to have the state board review this situalion because it would illuminate whether or not the doctor's statements were protected speech however inappropriate. If not, it might set a precedent at least in Arizona.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 08/28/2009
- zoe27 I'm a Fan of zoe27 26 fans permalink

He needs to consider, even if it is protected speech, whether the potential offence his patients may take and any resultant loss of business is worth giving his opinion to individual patients. He can always share his political views when he is not being a service provider paid by a consumer. He can post on the internet, write letters to the editor, demonstrate, etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 08/28/2009

actually, it's a close-knit group. you can complain to the "medical board" all you want. nothing will happen unless there's a death, or a forgotten scalple get's lodged in a liver. it's a self-policed fraternity. it needs federal supervision.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 08/28/2009

"Politics in the Office" cites a situation in which a doctor makes a vague comment about "Obamacare" and then without taking up the issue of what he or the secretary are actually trying to say, skips right to the much easier issue of doctors bringing politics into the examining room. It never gets back to issues brought up and then, appallingly gives a soap box to the offended patient and her accusations which are never argued or discussed.
This article uses the issue of doctors talking politics in the exam room to rail against criticism of the administration's goals. Comments continue the drum beat.
Absolutely shallow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 08/28/2009
- drzoon I'm a Fan of drzoon 15 fans permalink

KEEP IT IN THE WAITING ROOM!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 08/28/2009
- zoe27 I'm a Fan of zoe27 26 fans permalink

"I couldn't treat you because you're over 70" sounds pretty specific to me. Do you honestly believe, and do you think the doctor honestly believes, that a patient in their 70's would not get a cortisone shot if health care reform passed?

And, I agree with those who think the doctor's political opinion is inappropriate in a clinical setting, unless a patient asks his opinion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 08/28/2009
- Oldtt I'm a Fan of Oldtt 35 fans permalink
photo

Another good question is: where did the doctor get this opinion? People invest so much trust in doctors that they often think of them as infallible, when in reality doctors have no special access to the tree of knowledge with regard to peripheral health issues or even current medical research. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think many doctors practice defensive medicine heavily aligned with officially blessed best methods. This promotes level healthcare but stifles intellectual curiosity. The Arizona doctor could not have researched healthcare proposals for himself or he could never have adopted such a wrong view of what has been proposed in legislation. So where did his misinformation originate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:17 PM on 08/28/2009
- hoagie76 I'm a Fan of hoagie76 4 fans permalink

Let's get our facts straight. Google is a wonderful tool. I typed in Canada joint replacements and got these two links immediately:
http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=services_cjrr_e
http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/products/wait_times_tables_aib_e.pdf

75% of patients receive hip/knee replacement within 26 weeks. Can we beat that?

For the States, I had to do alot of digging to get any data:
http://www.thedoctorschannel.com/video/1464.html

Seven years from now it is very unlikely there will be enough surgeons in the US to perform the estimated 427,500 total hip and 1,046,000 total knee arthroplasties that patients will need, according to study findings presented this week at the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS) annual meeting in Las Vegas.

To me this says that Canada even plans out the Specialty needs for their patients and encourages physicians/surgeons to go into these fields. Conclusion: Canadian Healthcare is better. I'm sure there are loons out there that say the data is falsely presented by the state, but they are already living in their delusional world of Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Palin, O'Reilly and Faux has concocted for them.
I bet 100% of these patients receive their replacements less than a year. To teh nay-sayers I say challenge me. Prove to me through data that it's not true, not bold faced lies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 08/28/2009
- POSC I'm a Fan of POSC permalink

You don't really understand the problem...the reason there will be more hip and knee replacements in this country is the baby boomers will coming along as well as the obesity in this country. The same will happen to Canada so they are not immune. Your point is not valid...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 PM on 08/28/2009

My brother is a surgeon. He opposes changing doctor payment. He's got huge loans, went to a lot of school and was expecting to make a lot of money. He thinks he's going to get cheated. He thinks they will have to loosen the standards on medical training in order to get more doctors for lower pay. In Europe, medical school is a lot easier.

I think that's what most of the doctor opposition is. They are just saying its something else so as not to sound selfish.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 08/28/2009
- zoe27 I'm a Fan of zoe27 26 fans permalink

Does he really believe that medical schools in Britain and Western Europe are a lot easier? I have several relatives who have become doctors in the Netherlands. They did so under a system where their medical education was either paid for or substantially subsidized (I forget which). After completion, they then owed the country either 2 years in the Dutch army, or 1 year practising in an underdeveloped country (the option I think all of my relatives chose). This makes medical school entrance more a matter of qualifying rather than affording or going into massive amounts of debt. I live in Canada, and have often thought the Dutch system of medical education makes more sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 08/28/2009

Doctordoctor
I just now actually read your rambling rant. I'd love to hear more about this experience with medical school admissions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:20 PM on 08/28/2009

The army will pay for our medical training here too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 08/28/2009

it's been awhile, but i've been involved in admissions at a pretty large southwestern medical school.. guess what? grades, abilities, performance and attitude all matter, but they're all trumped by a close relative who's an MD. if uncle herbert's a doc, his nephew certainly can be, right?

in my experience teaching MDs to be --- they're only interested in the fortune they anticipate making in this system. they couldn't care less about "doctoring". and most of them are neither the brightest bulbs in the box, if you know what i mean, nor the most qualified who applied in their class. but they do, in general, come from lilly white families and they grew up surrounded by white picket fences.

and, with over 80% of the true cost of educating them coming from federal subsidies, "they did it all themselves", so they deserve to make a profit. right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 PM on 08/28/2009

Medical school admission standards are debatable. In the US, you basically can't flunk out once you are in either. You have to take exams at the end to get into a residency program to become a practicing doctor. The residency is what is easier in other countries. In the US, the residency is longer and much harder-much longer work days. Surgery residents work 24 hour shifts several days a week at many hospitals still for 4 years for a low salary. If they choose a specialty, then they do another 2, and atleast another 2 years for a subspeciality. A surgeon that removes a brain tumor thus was schooled for 10 years and 6 of them were grueling.
For the most part, a European residency is a 8-5, 5 day work week job.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 08/28/2009

Arguing that its not harder is a bit silly and besides the point.
I'm kind of the opinion that the obsession with having such a hard residency is just part of the American doctor culture. It doesn't seem to make better doctors. They work harder, but not smarter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:13 PM on 08/28/2009
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next › Last » (38 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect