Attacks On Muslim Women's Wear Intensify Across Europe, India (PHOTOS, POLL)

French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared earlier this year that the Islamic burqa was a symbol of subservience. In other incidents, two women were banned from swimming in Burqinis (a bathing suit that covers the whole body) in Paris and Verona, Italy. Attacks on what Muslim women wear seems to have intensified recently, and we want to hear what you think. Are these efforts to prevent Muslims from wearing certain articles of clothing in public acceptable or totally outrageous? Vote and let us know.

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Sarkozy: Burqa "Not Welcome"

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Vote and Share Choose Your Top 5 Understandable Totally Unacceptable Now Make Your Own Top 5 And Share with Your Friends RANK: AVERAGE:  OUT OF 10 President Nicolas Sarkozy of France declared in June that the Islamic burqa was not welcome in France because it was a symbol of subservience that turns women into "prisoners behind a screen."

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Comments

[markquest]

stron image relating to this at peter-herm­ann.blogsp­ot.com

[traumabob]

So let me see if I understand this.

If a Westerner goes to an Islamic country, they must dress and behave as the government dictates.

But Islamists in Western countries can dress and act as they please.

Therefore, applying Islamic country rules to Islamists when they are in another country is “unfair”?

I’m always amused when the bully starts complaining about how unfair it is when others play by the bully’s own rules.

[ModernTimes1]

Saudi Embassy Visa application statement:

"During my stay in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, I also agree to abide by all its laws and regulations and to respect its customs, social values and the sensitivities of its citizens. I also agree not to introduce any materials into the Kingdom that contradict the Islamic religion or to engage in any activities that violate Saudi law/"

http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/VisaApp.pdf

[Obenauer]

I have a friend that was visiting family in the United Kingdom. One of her relatives was taking a photograph of a landmark. Unfortunately the picture included the picture of a burqa clad zealot. The zealot aggressively confronted my friends relative and wouldn't cease her harassment until her burqa clad picture was taken off the relative's digital camera. It was against her religion she charged! I would wonder if she is a legal fugitive trying to hide behind her burqa? And what gave the Wahhabi woman the right to impose her religious values on someone from another culture and religion? Could this be arrogance? Also of interest is that in the United Kingdom Ms. Burqa is being photographed everywhere. Is she going to harass the British authorities because she is being videotaped? I hope her charges fall on deaf ears. There is a security issue here as well as a common decency issue . It is wrong to impose your religious beliefs on another person (common decency), and a burqa is a security risk in a modern culture. Especially since it is a symbol of radical Salafi Islam, some of whose elements are very hostile towards the West and Westerners. And I wouldn't be surprised is some of these Salafi women are engaged in the organized crime activity Modern Times has described. If they want to hide, stay in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. I think the hijab and the chador are ok because they don't cover the face.

[digdeeper]

In France it is not just the burquini that can be banned in swimming pools.
Men are required to wear regulation trunks. No boxer shorts allowed.
The rules are very harsh.

[bubbepenny]

i agree with the president of france. women should be free from muslim male persecution. and we should be free from worry over security matters because we cant see who is who.

[SereenHamawi]

Its not Islam or Christianity, Its all of the humanity
The religion of vanity drives people to insanity

[Churchi11]

everybody is in such a huff about France putting restrictions on Muslims, but where is the outrage when Malaysia bans it's Muslim citizens from attending concerts? oh that must be ok because that kind of discrimination is BY other Muslims. so if the black eyed peas were playing in Paris & the French gov't declared that everyone is welcome except Muslims, no one here would care, right.

stop piling on the west. the most discriminatory anti-Muslim laws and rules are written by and enforced by MUSLIMS!

[ModernTimes1]

It is illegal to discuss Muslim-on-Muslim violence and oppression.
It interferes with petit- liberal myth of noble Muslim, victim of white neo-post-quasi colonialism.
We must be forced celebrate the virtue of weakness myth.
Remember- the successful are always wrong. The weak are always virtuous.

[FabulousAt52]

How would all you Anti-Burqa people feel if we would not accept "overly modest" dress amongst Mormons or other fundie Christians out and about in American malls and parks or public transportation?

What about the Amish... maybe some of you find their bonnets and dully colored ankle length, arm covering, neck -to-ankle dresses a sign of religious and cultural oppression?

Ok, then well how come American's don't "Ban" them from public sight and activities?

I'll tell you why... Because it's WRONG, that's why. And its just as WRONG in Europe and it's just as wrong against Non-Christian, Non-whites too!

[ModernTimes1]

You and many others seem to be utterly unable to comprehend the profound difference between face- covered outfits vs. any other kind clothing..
It is the face covered phantom that we object to,
This is what it is all about.
Not the difference between a scarf and a Western dress.

Stop misrepresenting the stance of those opposed to burqa on disingenuous grounds.

[riff4u]

I thought this article was about a Muslim woman who simply wore a headscarf being denied entrance to a bank.

[FabulousAt52]

Not all women who wear burkas cover their faces, many don't, especially in countries other than their own.... Many who wear a head scarf are NOT covering their faces, either.
Just like the women being BANNED from [bigoted] France's pools and beaches and parks might wear burkinis, but they are NOT covering their face. Every picture I've seen of the modest swimwear they have show NO Face Covering.

Nice try though....

[rigveda]

I'm an atheist, so I am totally for the banning of all religious garb in public. Religion is one of the greatest sources of evil in our world and should not be tolerated or enabled.

[riff4u]

I guess aethist movements have no blood on their hands. Marxism, Stalinism, Maoism, Secular Humanism.

[callmeslice23]

If western women are required to wear them when visiting Islamic countries, I don't see why it's any different for Islamic women to remove them when visiting western countries

[ccpostman]

Try wearing that in a U.S. bank. Great clothes for robberies. This is a stick up!
They(the banks) want to SEE your face for security, religion or no religion.

Also, can you imagine having a business meeting with a women dressed like this? There is a thing called trust, if you can not see a person's face, you will have little trust in them.

When in Rome...obey the laws and cultural norms. Leave the garb in the old country!

[Obenauer]

You are absolutely right! In advanced countries that need identification for security this is an issue. Not only in the scenario you describe, but also for identification purposes. As security goes more and more toward biometrics, this may be even more of a concern. There are many interpretations about what is proper Islamic dress. Some believe that the veil and burqa are not necessarily Islamic, but were innovations imported from neighbors (for example upper class Persians and Greeks), and that the whole matter is about modesty.

[ModernTimes1]

"Some believe that the veil and burqa are not necessarily Islamic, but were innovations imported from neighbors (for example upper class Persians and Greeks), and that the whole matter is about modesty."
You can dig to the cave man, if you wish/ It changes nothing.
Face covering outfits offend Western sensibilities quite unlike any other type of clothing.
It is simply not welcome on European streets.
If Muslims had the institution of monasticism like Catholic and Buddhists this could work for them.. But not embedded into a secular society.

[cherry33]

If these French Muslim women who ear the burqas are all of a sudden legally demanded to not wear the headscarf, what do you think the men you imagine force her to wear it are going to do? If they're forcing her to wear it, do you think they will go along w/ the law b/c these women are not allowed to wear it? If these women are all being abused, what will the abusers do?
It's not a headscarf that barricades a woman from freedom. A headscarf is another issue. This is about not "offending" the "western" population. This is about the French not trusting the "other", who is an Easterner, male or female.

[ModernTimes1]

You can spin whatever web of hypotheticals and myths about Europeans you want in support of this barbaric custom of packaging women in shrouds.
Pay attention now. Reality.
We...don't... want.. to see. it.. on.... our... streets....
Deal with it.

[riff4u]

I doubt the France will create a Burqa Gestapo. The Burqa will die a natural death if left alone.......deal with it.

[riff4u]

You don't want to see it. There are plenty of French people who have no problem or even care what a woman wears. Deal with that!

[cherry33]

It's plain dumb to limit a woman's choice of clothing and claim that it's for liberating women. Please. It's just intolerance and ignorance of another kind. Are they gonna legislate over who gets the "b***h seat" on the Vespa too? You can only legally provide people with resources to get help from domestic abuse. You can't legislate over their personal choices, such as clothing choices. This would be like us banning porn b/c porn b/c it revolves around making women submissive to male desires. That would be stupid too. You can only ask the woman who wears the burqa how she feels and leave it at that. Otherwise, it's invasive and deprives women of their right to wear what they choose. The burqa is something that means something different to plenty of women.

[ModernTimes1]

"The spiritual leader of a liberal mosque here who had asked for moderation in the Salman Rushdie affair was shot dead in his office today. An assistant was also killed."
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/30/world/liberal-muslim-is-killed-in-brussels-mosque.html
No More.

BERLIN (Reuters) – "A Berlin gallery has temporarily closed an exhibition of satirical works by a group of Danish artists after six Muslim youths threatened violence unless one of the posters depicting the Kaaba shrine in Mecca was removed, it said on Thursday."
No More.

London train. Madrid trains
No More.

"An interviewed who came to see Geert Wilders was turned away. Mr Wilders was busy with the e police discussing more than 40 new death threats he had received over the previous days."
No More.

Even before terrorists struck London’s mass transport system in July 2005, many
analysts believed that the UK had become a breeding ground for Islamist extremists.
In 2003 and 2004, UK authorities disrupted several terrorist cells.
British Muslims as the perpetrators of the July 7, 2005 London attacks that killed at least
52 people, plus the four bombers, and injured over 700.
No more
On July 21, 2005, four attackers tried but failed to set off four
explosions on London’s metro and bus lines; no casualties resulted. UK officials have
noted many similarities with the July 7 bombings, and are investigating possible links.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RS22211.pdf
No more

[Obenauer]

You have very legitimate concerns because this is happening. Where is the support network for these extremists coming from? These people are terrorists and need to be treated as such.

[ModernTimes1]

Where is the support network for these extremists coming from?
From inside the community, inside the mosque, Internet.

[ModernTimes1]

It is revealing that a country formerly most accommodating to their Muslim residents is now in the vanguard of opposition against Islamic intolerance: Netherlands.
Dutch had quite enough of intimidation and belligerence and lack of acceptance of basic cultural norms.
The avalanche began with Theo Van Gogh and is rolling full hilt.
Bravo!

Tolerance--Oui
Acceptance of Sharia based archaism-- Nein.

[MarcusT]

It is ıindeed revealing. Lack of tolerance is just begining in the Europeans cultures who once lıked to thing of themselves as enlightened. I suppose ıt was easier to tolerate when they assumed theır proper role as colonist serfs.

[ModernTimes1]

Netherlands
Theo Van Gogh. Loses his life. His transgression.---n criticism of oppressive Islamic practices,
Hirsi Ali. needs 24- protection in Europe.Her crime -- criticism of oppressive Islamic practices,
Ehsan Jami. Member for the Dutch Labour Party and a former Muslim-- 24 hour protection after vicious beating . His transgression--- Leaving Islam and becoming atheist.
Professor Fortuyn. Loses his life His transgress­ion--criti­cism of Oppressive Islamic practices. Killed just weeks before probably becoming PM of Netherlands.
And many more.
Dutch are starting to see the cruel irony that Dutch people are now under threat from specifically Islamic religious entities and people in their OWN country. Why? Because they dare to speak their minds.

WE REFUSE TO TOLERATE THIS.

[Horst]

Wrong,,,,many Europeans are fed up with having to tolerate the intolerance of Muslims living in Europe.

[callmeslice23]

Lack of tolerance? Is it also a lack of tolerance when a western women has to wear this clothing when they enter an Islamic country?

[overcat]

Lack of tolerance? For what? Attacks on synagogues? Gay bashing? Honor killings? Religiously motivated political murders? Child brides?

So much of this is Europeans pushing back against religious extremism that has demonstrably threatened the rights of all citizens to act and express themselves freely without threats and intimidation and violence from a vocal and increasingly assertive minority. Rigid, violent, intolerant fundamentalists are increasingly attacking the rights of all in Europe and trying to impose their narrow beliefs on the masses. Extremist Islam has no respect for the rights of non believers.

No one is trying to keep Muslims as "serfs".

[riff4u]

You must be a big supporter of the Bush administration. For 8 years they brainwashed Americans into believing that they must always be in a constant state of fear. Those "Muslims" are going to take over the world. They are going to impose Shariah law on you. Your wife is going to be forced into a burqa. Your daughters are going to be gang raped and all the other fear mongering stereotypes you can think of. How about this one..........Muslim women must become more "French"..­........th­ey must walk around half naked and NEVER TAKE A BATH. PU!

[mariegachelin]

I'm sure Sarkozy is trying to help. Women who live in the free world are not told what they have to wear. Women have choices in France and they should have such everywhere.
Many of the comments seem to defend the Burqa. If a woman chooses to wear one than it is fine, but no woman should have to be forced to wear one. You may need to cover your face in sand storm, but there is no such thing in Paris. So if France sees it unfit, then be it. Realistically, Muslim women wear a burqa because they have to and some to a degree ahve grown accustomed to it.
As for Muslim countries, many of them force western women to wear the burqua, so if France requires that all women must wear western clothing in france, who is to question France's right to do so? you can disagree but when it comes to cultural wars, the people have the right to choose what is right for them, not a few religious group of people.
As much as I hate to bring this up, there are many Muslims who immigrate to Europe as refugees and claim that they are are being persecuted and cannot wear what they want, yet once they are admitted, they do exactly the opposite, many of them, even return to their home countries and wear their customary clothing.

[MissusD]

They FORCE western women to wear the BURQA? Are you serious? I don't know one country where foreigners are forced to wear the BURQA. A very few countries demand foreigners to wear a headscarf but a BURQA? From your posts I got the impression you know the difference between a Burqa and Hijab so I am quite positive it was not a mistake. I advise you should do to some research about Muslim countries before making such statements.

[loOranks]

Even the US military has special 'islam-proof' veils for their female soldiers in Saudi Arabia... so, yes, some western women are forced to wear a veil, not a burqa though...

By the way, you very much fail to address the point of this topic by solely picking on Marie's word about western women on who the burqha is imposed, what's your view on this? Should western countries accept the burqha?

[ModernTimes1]

Saudi Visa application warning:
"During my stay in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, I also agree to abide by all its laws and
regulations and to respect its customs, social values and the sensitivities of its citizens. I
also agree not to introduce any materials into the Kingdom that contradict the Islamic
religion or to engage in any activities that violate Saudi law/"

http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/VisaApp.pdf

[callmeslice23]

Don't you remember Hillary Clinton being required to wear one on diplomatic trips? Do you watch the news at all?

[poster1122]

If the policy were geared towards the full-on burqa, I would agree with you. Civil society has a strong secular interest in not having people going around effectively masked.

However, the emerging policy isn't against the burqa or face covering in general. It's against the veil, head scarves, articles of clothing often used to display a woman's Muslim identity. Herein lies the problem for me. Europe is making the arrogant presumption that Muslim women can't have warm feelings, even pride, about their culture and are being told they can't wear articles of clothing that may signify that pride.

It says that every woman who wears Muslim garb is de facto oppressed and accuses the men in their lives of being oppressors. All this is done without the slightest effort to ascertain any facts about that person, their views, their reasons for wearing what they wear.

It's true that European countries have every right to institute whatever dress code it sees fit, but it doesn't make what they do right.

[loOranks]

Where do you see that the French policy has to do with 'clothing often used to display a woman's Muslim identity' ???? That seems like a freaking bold statement!

I'm French, and the burqah has no place in France while our boys are dying in Afganistan defending human rights values.

In Europe, there is a social covenant that you're entitled to see who you're dealing with. In any circumstances. Check history if you need to.

[gakabani]

You are completely wrong and your statements are misguided. The point is that it is FRANCE and not Saudi Arabia or Morocco. It is freedom to make choices and not impositions that matters. France is imposing the same equivalence Saudi imposes in Saudi woman. However, Saudi does not impose on Westerners any attire but to be modest and use a scarf to cover your head.

In this terms, is France behaving (imposing) equally as Saudi? Yes!

[MarcusT]

Sarkozy ıs panderıng to hıs antı Arab French base and it's a bıg one.

[who38]

Agreed. Even if it is not large, it is powerful. Do they have an FIPAC inFrance?

[mariegachelin]

Nums are not forced to wear a habit and many do not. And, those who do not are not beat up. The comparisson makes no sense. While Muslem women have to wear a hijab, Catholic women are not forced to wear what the church dictates is a fundamental difference between the two religion. Unlike Christianity, Islam has not gone through any reformation and maybe it is time that Muslim consider being a bit more realistic with their religion. As it, Islam will lose many of its followers, maybe it is that fear that keeps its leaders to see the light. You have to admit that the Islamic religion is harsh and some people use it to be cruel to others. religion should not give human beings the rights to mistreat others and to force people to do as they are told has nothing to do with religion. Subsimission is about egos and I don't see why anyone has to have such low sense of self that they have to force others to accept their ideals.

[riff4u]

Islam losing its followers? Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and it is not all due to their birth rate. In fact most converts to Islam in the West are women. Many choose to marry Muslim men ( so they can be oppressed) and many simply accept the faith based on its simple message of one God. Most are Christians looking for something with more substance, or those with little religious upbringing looking for some meaning in life.

[callmeslice23]

That has to be the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.

[cherry33]

Wow, you know very little about Islam as a religion. The Koran does not ever state that one needs to cover their hair. You need to only cover your privates (including the breasts), although a nursing mom may have her breast showing while nursing. You're mixing current culture w/ religion. It's not any more "harsh" a religion than Catholicism.

[who38]

Most religions are harsh and are used by people to be cruel to others. Think those altar boys solicited their molestations? Strong egos don't require religion of any sort, even those that have undergone a "reformation" (whatever that means).