Bill Moyers On Health Care Reform: "We're All In The Same Boat"

Bill Moyers appeared on "Real Time with Bill Maher" Friday night for a long conversation, much of which focused on health care. When asked by Maher what would be a metaphor that could change the current thinking on health care, Moyers answered "we're all in the same boat." He went on to talk about the moral message that health care reform would send, which is that "we are in this together."

"I don't want to live in a country where I am on a hospital floor getting an operation that costs $25,000, and two floors above me someone is being denied that same surgery because he or she has no money. What kind of a civilization is that?" Moyers said.

Comments

[BBCup]

Some are in the life boats, but most are in the frigid water. Why are we letting the ones in the life raft make this decision? There are lobbyists and CEOs taking up room where Citizens should be sitting.

[tbonehead]

Would Jesus have agreed with Bill Moyers? Would Jesus accept he best for himself and then everyman for himself?

[JazzyJim]

There is no cure for stupid, but ignoring this "loud" minority - the problem isn't with the "plants or astroturf" insurance company/GOP plants at these rallies - it's the GOP themselves. This is their tactic to continue their assault on the world as if "we the people" can be coaxed into believing their "loud" chest pounding is the answer to intelligent discussion. We the people, like dispatching the ideology of Fox/Beck/H­annity/Lim­baugh - must loudly oppose the screaming child in the back seat of the car. Our "knowing" what is right is no longer enough. The Limbaugh hate and fear mongers are spreading. Ignorance on the right is contagious, their ideology and propaganda is powerful - and they must be held accountable for their fear and hate mongering and a misuse of the American airwaves to mislead the American public for political gain. Show up - Shout down stupidity with facts. Do not let the "plants" dissuade common sense. Let's take America back from the NeoConExtremist Rightwing Terrorists - THEY ARE THE MINORITY - we are America!

[Kalie]

The bottom line is this: You cant have "for profit" insurance companies that decide who gets medical treatment and who doesnt. Yes, these are the death panels we have been living with. Medicare is government insurance for those over 65 and does a great job. We have to totally change this system or the insurance companies will continue to get their profits, at our expense. Lets not be ignorant Americans. Lets get the best (govt) healthcare and move on.

[Philclock]

WRONG. Insurance companies offer a FINANCIAL RISK POLICY. Health care providers, ie doctors, hospitals, clinics, pharmacies dictate health care. AND Medicare doesn't pay all of the costs, my Dad had Medicare AND private health insurance for cancer treatments Medicare covered 70-80% only.

TODAY'S BATTLE: DO WE PATIENTS WANT TO CONTROL HEALTH CARE, OR DO WE HAND IT OVER TO THE NANNY STATE?

Patients control = consumer power. NOT patient control = death panels, government/hospital committees, etc.

Not easy to sort out, as an oncolgyst friend said, health care can be extremely complex, and with technology getting more sophisticated it'll only get more so.

I'm for patient control, particularly for regular stuff. I'd rather pay cash, doctors, hospitals, etc. respond quicker and I can shop for deals. The big stuff, I'd want catastrophic care insurance with a BIG deductible, hopefully I won't need it, if I do I won't go bankrupt. LET ALL INSURANCE COMPANIES COMPETE ACROSS STATE LINES, AND COMPETE WITH ANY EXISTING MEDICARE/M­EDICAID/GO­VERNMENT PLAN, the competition will lower rates.

Nevertheless need employer contribution, perhaps government regs (Ugh!) requiring insurance companies to offer coverage for pre-existing conditions, catastrophic needs, etc. particularly for the indigent.

I like John Mackey's overall approach. As CEO of Whole Foods his "The Whole Foods Alternative to Obamacare" has SPECIFIC PROPOSALS to control costs and allow everyone to buy healthcare, WITHOUT A THOUSAND PAGE BIG GOVERNMENT BILL!

Here's the site:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html

Any thoughts??

[SangZe]

The USA lacks moral standing. Its elected officials treat their citizens as serfs who deserve nothing while they reap unparalleled benefits including substantial health care insurances. Unfortunately, no one pays any attention to Moyers. Most don't even know he exists, much less hear what he has to say.

[Scarborian]

Every developed country in the world sees healthcare as a moral obligation, except the USA.
Every developed country in the world has some form of universal healthcare, except the USA.
Every developed country in the world has better healthcare provision than the USA. Seriously, there are some problems with every system but there's no one out there saying "Let's adopt the system they have in the USA".

Obama should study the many excellent examples of universal healthcare that are already out there in the world and decide on a model that would be best for the USA. That's what a great leader would do.

[mamala4]

Obama could be a great leader, but he is inexperienced....I voted for him, after I supported Hillary (an experienced leader).

[Dale Larson]

GRUDGING RESPECT FOR HEALTH CARE PROFITEERS

In a way you have to be impressed by what Big Pharma and For-Profit Insurance has achieved.

They've managed to poison our politicians and the broader media. They've managed to entangle themselves everywhere.

They even gouge us with their side businesses...

For instance, you pay extra on your home owner's insurance in case somebody gets hurt on your property. Why? Because we don't have universal health care. Somebody has to go after you for their health care.

The same industry sells us both insurance policies! They have us coming and going.

What about Uninsured Motorist coverage. We wouldn't need it with universal health care.... Oh by-the-way, an insurance company sold you that coverage too!

They've dipped into our pockets three times all for the same FEAR! It's BRILLIANT!

I'm sure there are others examples of the insurance industry I haven't thought of.

How about STD and LTD insurance?

It boggles the mind.

[olmossy]

Yeah, and on the same note I might have a minimal grudging respect for the slavery system that brought us the confederacy and Civil War. Wow those guys really knew how to make money.
But I try to keep it tamped down and not let it show.

[netinterest]

In the interview an interesting question went unanswered -- Why do so many other industrialized democracies have universal healthcare but we don't?

One possibility is not pretty. When those other countries enacted their peoplecare systems their populations were much more homogeneous than ours is. They were all Germans, Frenchmen, Japanese, Swiss, Danes, Finns. Here we had epithets for segments of our diverse populace -- welfare moms, illegals, homeless, druggies -- that encouraged a separation and disregard for people that were much more likely to be unemployed, unlucky or suffering from a pre-existing condition.

We used to celebrate the great melting pot. Now there are those that would like to turn the heat up to boil.

Alan Cohen

[ZbigniewZancriewicz]

Part 1:

I have often thought about that concept. I have always thought that homogeneity in a society can be a double edged sword. As the Japanese say, Deru kugi wa utareru (“The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.”). What is of value, especially in their society, is conformity - everyone going along with the program. We Americans have always fostered individuality to the degree that on any issue everyone feels that they are owed 15 minutes of fame, and off go their mouths. Thus, we once again have a national squabble, trying to outshout the "other" group - and THEY have no clue about what is right and correct.

What is the real root of the problem in this oh so complex issue? Once again it seems to be education. I have a life and obligations of my own, and I have not had time to read the proposed legislation. But who's doing the heavy lifting "for the people"? No one. We get bits-and-pieces that one group or another wants us to hear. The media sensationalizes town-hall meetings for ratings. No one has reduced this issue down into parts that may be easily assimilated, so we are all feeling our way in the dark trying to develop an informed opinion based on what someone else wants us to think. We seem to be nothing more than a loosely organized tribal society.

[ZbigniewZancriewicz]

Grand finale:

Dare I say it? This goes all the way back to our public educational system. It was their job, along with parents, to teach our youth to be interested in their life and to think critically, not just learn to pass tests at the end of the year. But I guess Facebook and texting and their iPods and the mall and American Idol are a lot more important. It's time that "We the People" started accepting responsibility for our own welfare again and educating ourselves. The Military-Industrial Complex likes it the way it is just now - a nice docile populace that reaches out for another blast of Bud or high fructose corn syrup during commercial breaks...

[JazzyJim]

Try telling that to the ostrich with his head in the sand. The GOP have convinced their "faith" base that "the mainstream - everyone BUT them" is wrong and can "see no wrong in their blind ignorance. Like the Germans, the world would be just wonderful, if the rest of us weren't here is part of their mantra, so they "don't listen" and they're "afraid" to be wrong - which in and of itself is a sin in vanity. Well, when Bush was asked did he have any regrets or did he do anything wrong - the dopey look and answer of "no" - showed me the convinced lunacy of a political party gone wrong. This nightmare began with Reagan, arms for hostages, selling munitions to the very people the GOP fear today - the ones they armed. Can this be the lesson of Bin Laden, a family friend of the Bush family (as was Hussien?) - to shine a light on that hippocracy? It is a very expensive lesson, first at the cost of the original American lives lost here in New York, PA and Washington, DC. Then the subsequent war that has yet to be explained by the GOP at great financial and US lives - as well as the collateral damage of Iraqi's citizens. I don't want a religious government - I want an administrative and moral one - not one that has made a mockery of religion and faith - that of the GOP. American's fight

[Diana Seay]

Bill Moyers and President Obama aren't taking into account the one thing that makes health care reform so difficult, and that is that most Americans are selfish and greedy. They profess their love for their fellow man, but when it comes down to it, they only love them when they don't have to fool with them. If people think that it will inconvenience them or cost them a little money, they will let their fellow man die in the street.
When I get into a discussion on facebook, or just on the internet, there is an unbelievable amount of people that accuse me of being lazy, a smoker, a drinker, a druggie, you name it, just because I believe that people have a right to health care. These hateful people never have an answer for pre-existing conditions, or being dropped because a person actually had the nerve to use their insurance, or even getting laid off and losing their insurance. All they can say is that people like that want a handout.
This is the kind of people that we live among and it's very disheartening to me.

[mharg11]

Wait until it happens to them. With the increased number of obese people, a large number of them will be told that they are no longer insurable. As these people start aging, I mean younger people now, insurance companies are not going to pay for their illnesses. They will be dropped and become uninsurable. And those that yell about the cost, don't understand that tax payers are paying for those emergency room visits by the uninsured. Medicare waste from over billing by medical supply companies, etc... The waste is what is driving the cost of all medical care and the insurance companies annual increase in rates is making it unaffordable for many people. Look at what has happened over the last 16 yrs. since Clin*ton tried to correct this situation. What will it be like in another 16 yrs. if nothing is done?

[Kalie]

Insurance companies are a lot more selfish and greedy than most people. Their shareholders are too.

[Rod Davis 1]

The reasons why we are having a confrontation as to whether we should have health care for all is the amount of dollars being passed around by the insurance lobbyist and those in Congress who are taking that money. Insurance companies have divided the country into sectors and no insurance company is allowed to sell insurance within the sectors assigned to others - the competitions is reduced for the product thereby making it easier to control the premiums for that product.

The medical industry will lose billions of dollars if health care reform is instituted. The insurance companies will be forced to reduce their premiums to stay in business; the pharmaceuticals will have to reduce their prices because of competitive bidding; doctors will have an opportunity to reduce fees because liability insurance will decrease after implementing better methods and test to control patient cost and reduced medical mistakes.

The Republicans know that if they can stop Obama here, and there is no backlash for having taken health care off the table, they stand a chance of gaining the majority in Congress and the Presidency in 2012. Everybody has monetary and philisophical reasons for fighting the passing of this reform.

[JISantiago]

Why is health-care such a complicated issue?
Is it or is it made out to be so?

If so, for whose interest? Public or private interests?

Providing health care should be the primary task of every government. Every citizen is, in a sense, the property of the state. His or her wellbeing should be the concern of the government. That is why we have an elected government, to look after us.

From primary healthcare to life-saving treatment, the state owes it to its taxpayers. They do it in the Scandinavian countries. No body calls them communists or Nazis. None of the countries there has gone bankrupt because of the provision of such healthcare.

Why on earth is so much hoopla and misinformtion and distortions abound in the US when it comes to healthcare? Did anyone pause to consider for a moment, who stands to benefit if the government steps aside from providing healthcare to its citizens? You don't need a rocket scientists to tell you that. The Insurance companies and the drug companies are the vultures here.

Wake up America. It is to your own interest that you put an end to the monopoly of the insurance companies. Stop listening to such craps as pulling the plug on grandmas. These are politicised propagand and misinformation. Fight for public healthcare option. Every American deserves it.

[MacroNaturalist]

Good post JISantiago. I am a single self employed woodworker who turned 61 a week ago. I always had higher payments than most of my friends whole families, but as I approached 60 my premiums doubled each year, forcing me out of my plan that I had had 20 years.

Now I have to worry about every test that I ever had being used against any claim on the new policy, if I ever have them. Fortunately I am in good health, but $1200 per month for just me, which would probably be $1800 by now, and $2400 next year just leaves me behind. There is no way that I can raise my prices that much each year.

The highest paid CEO for just one insurance company in 2007 made more than all of our US Senators plus the President for the year combined. They are not making that much money because they are taking care of the policy holders. they make it by NOT paying claims for what people thought they had bought insurance for.

[ocalasatpro]

We're "in the same boat." My wife and I are pulling the plug on our BC/BS this or next month. It's just the two of us, neither on any medication whatsoever (I'm 45, she's 57--and we eat an all-organic, meat-free diet, exercise hard every single day, rarely drink, don't smoke the deadly legal stuff, and don't have kids. It sounds boring, unless you count the not-so-legal stuff, but we are both very healthy--and happy as a result. We pay almost $700 a month and have not met a deductible in 15 years. It makes us both, if you'll pardon the word, "sick." Paying taxes seems like kid's play to us when compared to health "insurance."

Great post both Santiago & Macro. Couldn't agree more.

[mharg11]

I'm right there with you. I'm 60 and work as a consultant and my company doesn't offer me insurance. My wife is on Medicare but I'm in that no man's land, can't afford health insurance and affraid to go to the doctor. Affraid because they might find something that would make me uninsurable for the next 5 yrs until I reach medicare. It makes me sick to see those Paid senior citizens yelling at town hall meetings. They are covered and no one is talking about taking it away from them. My wife had hipp replacement surgery last yr at a price of #80, 000. Without medicare and her suppliment, we would not have been able to afford that. Health Care Reform NOW, with a public option!!

[Mikeeee]

I sometimes think, that what the pharma and health insurance companies fear most is a public plan that will force them to turn medical records over to doctors and patients. They do not want anyone to see how many people have died because of their negligence.

[schatsie]

give me a break, the hospitals and doctors etc are part of the same problem...There is no other country in the world where the cost per day in a hospital is 10 grand....and the doctors are billing ridiculous amounts...(next time, note how long your doctor spends with you, then double it just for giggles and then do the math... take the visits per hour by 2000 hours....)

[countryjoe8]

Doctors are not a major problem. The fact is that most hospitals in this country are not-for-profit ... they are not in it to make money.

They reason why they have to charge those ridiculous rates is to cover their mal-practice insurance. That's another reason why we have less "family doctors". They reality for most doctors is that if they don't belong to a hospital network where they can see more and charge more, they can't afford their mal-practice insurance and would be able to run their own practice.

Insurance is the is a bigger factor in this problem and doctors and hospitals.

[ponderingmuch]

Here is a link to the video with Bill Moyers and Bill Maher:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/real-time-bill-moyers-health-care-human-ri

Bill Moyers presents the argument with perfect larity.

Please send the link to the president, your congress people, your friends, and anybody else you can think of.

[seaside45]

Your recommendation is a "must do". See the video and send it out, folks. My husband and I watched the entire segment on Bill Maher. Bill Moyer's acuity and plain speaking reduced all the convoluted arguments down to the fact that health care for all should be part of our national pride and identity.

[scottowego]

Thanks so much Ponderingmuch. I watched. I'm a big Bill Moyers fan anyway. One thing I'd like to say.... No matter how much money the Democratic party has in 2012, if we don't get single payer I'm going to vote for a third party. I think that's a good suggestion for all progressive libs to consider.

[epiphany1234]

Take "profit incentive" out of health care delivery and this debate is over...

Put doctors on the payroll of hospitals at good salaries - no overhead, no payroll, no malpractice insurance ....costs go down

Install single payer public plan run by the government -- i.e., expand Medicare to include ALL citizens -- and empower it to negotiate lower drug costs ....costs go down

End paper medical records (scan past records into a national system) and startup electronic data for all people in the public plan ....costs go down & new jobs are created

The government, hospitals, employers, schools, individuals, everybody must foster healthy living.....healthy eating and exercise......costs go down

[GrannyBgood]

Yes, and to that add a socialized EDUCATION program that takes qualified students right through medical school if necessary...Voila! More doctors, especially GP's who aren't just in it for the money!
That's why countires like Germany et al have enough doctors and scientists, etc....students who don't go on to academics can go through business or trade schools.

WE need a better VALUE for our tax dollars!
Healthcare, NOT WARfare!

[jrutle]

Moyers gave a great interview on Maher's show Friday night. He was dead-on when he said the biggest problem facing health care reform isn't the GOP but "corporate Democrats". He also said that the Dems would be better going down on principle with a good health care bill that doesn't pass than submitting to weak legislation that doesn't meet the objectives of universal coverage and cost containment. He cited the history of Medicare legislation as the basis for his view. With health care cost increases and declining coverage continuing their current trends, more and more Americans are going to experience the pain of inaction and recognize that there will only be a higher economic cost by not reforming the system now. Its interesting to hear some Dems cite Ted Kennedy as an example of the need to compromise. What they're missing is that Kennedy also stated one should never compromise on principle. That is where progressive Democrats need to stand now and not compromise on the concepts of single payer, public option health care which pay for expanded coverage by eliminating the high costs of waste and greed.