More

Huge wildfire portends bad Calif. fire season

GREG RISLING   09/ 1/09 11:29 PM ET   AP

Wildfire

LOS ANGELES — Firefighters reported progress Tuesday against a gigantic blaze on the edge of Los Angeles that might be just a preview of even greater dangers ahead. The peak Southern California fire season hasn't even started yet. The worst fires typically flare up in the fall, when ferocious Santa Ana winds can drive fires out of wilderness areas and into suburbs. As a result, Southern California could be in for a long wildfire season.

"When you see a fire burning like this, with no Santa Ana winds, we know that with the winds, it would be so much worse, so much more intense," said Los Angeles County fire Capt. Mark Whaling.

The Santa Anas are so devastating when they carry fire because they sweep down from the north and reach withering speeds as they squeeze through wilderness canyons and passes and plunge into developed areas.

Even though winds have been mostly calm since the blaze began along the northern fringe of Los Angeles and its suburbs, the flames have spread over 199 square miles of forest in a week.

Citing new damage assessments, officials Tuesday raised the number of destroyed homes from 53 to 62 but said the number of homes remaining under mandatory evacuation orders was reduced by 300 to 6,000. Up to 12,000 homes were considered threatened at the height of the fire, though not all were ordered evacuated. One of the threatened houses was the home where the movie "E.T." was filmed.

But it was not the only significant blaze in Southern California.

In the inland region east of Los Angeles, 2,000 homes were being threatened by a fire of more than 1.5 square miles in the San Bernardino County community of Oak Glen, and a nearby 1.3-square-mile blaze was putting 400 homes at risk in Yucaipa. More than twice as many homes had been threatened but aircraft held the fire back and it was 70 percent contained by Tuesday evening.

"There's action everywhere," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said as a helicopter interrupted his comments at a news conference in San Bernardino County.

Containment of the big fire, known as the Station Fire, rose to 22 percent. U.S. Forest Service incident commander Mike Dietrich said he felt better but was not willing to say a corner had been turned.

"Right now if I were in a boxing match I'd think we're even today," Dietrich said.

Weather was more humid, which helps brush resist burning, but the downside was a possibility of dry lightning. Some sprinkles were reported, but no significant rain.

Officials were worried about the threat to a historic observatory and TV, radio and other antennas on Mount Wilson northeast of Los Angeles. But on Tuesday, firefighters set backfires near the facilities before a giant World War II-era seaplane-turned-air tanker made a huge water drop on flames below the peak.

The fire was still moving toward Mount Wilson, but Dietrich said he was confident that any damage would be minimized.

The Station Fire is one of hundreds of wildfires in a season that usually does not gather steam until October, when the Santa Ana winds arrive.

This year's destructive Southern California wildfires began in May, when 80 homes were destroyed and more than a dozen others were damaged in the Santa Barbara area. "Sundowner" winds, a localized version of a Santa Ana, whipped a brush fire into an inferno in neighborhoods on the edge of the Los Padres National Forest.

Wind has not been a problem in the current fire, but drought has. The region is in the midst of a three-year drought, and the tinder-dry forest is ripe for an explosive fire.

Residents had a range of emotions as they watched the fire – and they knew the lack of wind was a godsend.

"I'm a little concerned but not overly worried," said retiree Paul Westmoreland, 77, who lives in the Seven Hills neighborhood in Tujunga. "But if we had had high winds, this whole area would have gone."

Some of the spectators were residents who followed orders to leave but could not resist coming back to their neighborhoods.

Jennifer Pelon, 43, came back Tuesday morning to see if her 3,000-square-foot home on a hillside was still standing. She nervously watched as flames licked a ridgeline only yards from her home.

"It's a lot of stress and anxiety, watching," she said. "It's your whole life up there."

At the huge fire command center, Glendale firefighter-paramedic Jack Hayes, 31, recounted how he manned a 2,000-gallon water truck to extinguish flames bearing down on backyards.

"We've been knocking them all down and saving some homes," he said.

Hayes said he had not taken a day off for a week.

"You can't sleep," said Hayes, who had the beginnings of a beard and bloodshot eyes. "You're ready to go and there's always something you could be doing."

Two firefighters – Capt. Tedmund Hall, 47, of San Bernardino and firefighter Specialist Arnaldo "Arnie" Quinones, 35, of Palmdale – were killed Sunday when their vehicle plummeted off a mountain road. Quinones' wife is expecting a child soon, and Hall had a wife and two adult children.

In Washington, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama sent their condolences to the firefighters' families. Gibbs said the White House will do whatever it can to assist state and local governments.

The cash-strapped state has spent $106.5 million of its $182 million emergency firefighting fund, and was hoping to get federal assistance to ease the burden.

The Station Fire was the biggest but not the most destructive of the wildfires currently burning in California. Northeast of Sacramento, a fire burning over a half square mile destroyed 60 structures over the weekend, many of them homes in the town of Auburn. The fire was 80 percent contained Tuesday and no longer threatened any homes.

___

Associated Press writers Jacob Adelman and Robert Jablon in Los Angeles and Juliet Williams in Sacramento contributed to this report.

FOLLOW HUFFPOST GREEN

LOS ANGELES — Firefighters reported progress Tuesday against a gigantic blaze on the edge of Los Angeles that might be just a preview of even greater dangers ahead. The peak Southern California ...
LOS ANGELES — Firefighters reported progress Tuesday against a gigantic blaze on the edge of Los Angeles that might be just a preview of even greater dangers ahead. The peak Southern California ...
Filed by Nicholas Sabloff  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 237
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3  Next ›  Last »  (3 total)
photo
tssent
The facts, ma'am, just the facts
01:02 PM on 09/02/2009
Part 1

I have the best dreams in the world except
that they're not always so logical after I wake up
and think about them. Still, a lot of them are fun
remembering and some of them are even worth retelling.
Here's a pretty good one from the other night.

It was like a movie, appropriately so since the
setting was not only L.A. but was an action thriller
about finally putting an end to those killer California
fires that seem to be getting only worse. It went
like this...

A huge grid of something resembling irrigation pipe
had been laid out all around L.A., up the hills, down
the valleys and into the forests. Mounted atop
the pipe at "x" intervals were massive (and I do mean
massive) "sprinkler" heads. Water to feed the system
was a no-brainer because L.A. has no less than the
entire Pacific Ocean from which to draw water for
the system. This would later solve a second problem
quite by accident, namely a way to use up all that
extra water from our rising oceans. It was the
perfect dream with a storybook ending.
photo
tssent
The facts, ma'am, just the facts
01:02 PM on 09/02/2009
Part 2

Then it happened. A fire erupted, the biggest
ever in L.A.'s history. Authorities swung into action,
computer-activating a single square of water, the
square surrounding the fire.

Meanwhile, in fantastic Hollywood fashion,
firefighters were parachuted and helicoptered in
along the entire periphery of the square with their
supplies, including fire hoses they attached to the
pipe. They put out the fire on three sides with ease,
but couldn't handle the fourth, so they simply turned
off the valves feeding their hoses and enabled the
sprinkler valves instead. The last of the fire was
soon extinguished. It was amazing.

Now, before the fire there had been this great
arguement about how much the system was
going to cost an already bankrupt California,
but then the governor talked the insurance
companies into springing for the system by
cleverly pointing out that in the long run they'd
pay the equivalent, if not more, in claims, so
why not pay less now and be heroes on top
of everything?
photo
tssent
The facts, ma'am, just the facts
01:02 PM on 09/02/2009
Part 3

And he added, they could always lobby
the federal and state governments they already
owned and pass a bill that would fund a small army
of "specialists" to walk the line and perform ongoing
maintenance. It worked! The insurance companies
bought the logic and turned their investment into
an enormously lucrative enterprise, paid for by
the simpleton bastards who should have shouldered
the investment in the first place, our stupid
American taxpayers.

As additional "insurance" the governor noted, the
the Aetnas and AIGs and Prudentials of this country
were just "too large to fail". Even if the whole idea
were to fall on its face they could just pass another
bill, this one to bail themselves out.

The dream ended as it should, in a scene at
Universal Studios with filmmakers and insurance
companies crowded around at a large conference
table with their cigars and brandy negotiating a
deal for the movie rights -- starring Arnold.
02:08 AM on 09/02/2009
It seems there's a lot of misinformation and confusion about the type of area that is burning and what structures have been burned. The fire first struck a foothill community, La Canada Flintridge, which is a middle class suburb of Los Angeles and no homes were lost. The only homes lost were cabins deep in the hills in the community of Tujunga to the West. No mansions, no sprawling ranches.

The attraction of these foothill communities (La Canada in particular) is not the desire to be near movie stars nor the desire to have a 3000 sf mansion, rather it's that the schools are ranked third in the state and the commute to jobs in downtown Los Angeles is less than 20 minutes. As others have mentioned, the hills have not burned in 40 plus years and we all knew it was bound to happen soon. Could we move to the flat lands? Of course, but our kids would go to crappy schools and we'd live in constant fear of crime. Frankly, I'll stick with fires a couple times a century. Thanks for those who have issued concern.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
08:27 PM on 09/01/2009
A wildfire or earthquake in California, a tornado in Kansas or a hurricane in the Gulf are not unusual or tragic. Unfortunate, yes. A hurricane in California, a tornado in Florida or a wildfire in Kansas would be tragic. Best of luck with your 3,000 square foot mansion built on a tinder box.
11:14 PM on 09/01/2009
And please allow me to offer a preemptive snicker in the event of any future misfortune that may befall you, my hollow judger.
photo
captainindustry
just a better con artist
06:23 PM on 09/01/2009
Near the begining of this fire, there was some talk about the fires being started by competing pot growers in the national forest. I didn't pay any attention then, as I didn't realize what a big fire this would become. Is there any more information along those lines?
07:30 PM on 09/01/2009
I know the latest of the Santa Barbara fires started in a caretaker camp for an illegal marijuana farm. Not sure about the Station Fire causation. It really is too bad the herb isn't completely legal yet as I could grow it in my backyard and not buy it from a bunch of criminals.
photo
captainindustry
just a better con artist
12:03 PM on 09/02/2009
I agree 100 percent. If you decide to buy it on the street, it is most certainly contaminated with god knows what all.
05:06 PM on 09/01/2009
I wonder how many people realize that the firefighting effort is an example of pure socialism. That is, everyone pitching in by way of taxes to pay for this effort whether or not they are directly affected.

Just thought I'd point that out.
05:11 PM on 09/01/2009
Wow - first time I've seen that ridiculous argument in awhile.
06:03 PM on 09/01/2009
Unless I'm wrong, I believe Comraderoger was making a point about the absurdity of those who make blanket statements about socialism and claim that we are headed toward a socialist state. I believe the point is that in many respects socialism is a valid function of society, and we should not let demagoguery and fear-mongering influence public discourse. Is that the point you were making Comraderoger?
05:59 PM on 09/01/2009
True. Most people don't understand that point. That's the problem we face in the USA, too many people who have no clue what is going on other than what's on their favorite reality show or gossip channel.
05:00 PM on 09/01/2009
It has seemed like the wildfires in southern California have been raging for decades. The repetitivity of wild fire recurring during a year is quite incongruous with the developments that have arisen to combat other disasters successfully. I am amazed that the people who own homes in the areas devastated by fires every year in Southern Cal have any vegitation close to their homes in the first place. It seems to me that the fires every year must be raging and out of control before they are discovered. It is a shame that just as a fire destroys one neighbor hood one year, it destroys another not long afterward. From the amount of wildfires reported in Southern California it is amazing to think that it all hasn't been burned down dozens of times over by now.
05:19 PM on 09/01/2009
You'd think people would pick up on the idea that trees and brush catch fire pretty regular in that area and stay in the cities where they belong.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
07:43 PM on 09/01/2009
There are no areas ravaged by brush fires every year. The reason for the severity of this one, for example, is that it's in an area that hasn't been hit in 40, 80, to a 150 years (varying parts of the fire). So - that's the real repitition rate - once every 40 years, at the worst.

And people don't have brush near their homes generally. In fire prone areas it's illegal to have dead brush. Many of the structures destroyed are cabins in the woods - not primary homes.

One thing you may not understand - Los Angeles is about the size of FOUR Rhode Island sized states. The "Los Angeles area" is even larger. When there is a fire, even many, in the area of LA each year, that doesn't remotely mean the same areas are burning.

California is a large state. Southern California is bigger than most states.
03:12 PM on 09/01/2009
Chinatown.

The price for stealing water.

Desert dwelling Metromegalomanaics.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
PunKinPai
Tact is just not saying true stuff. I’ll pass.
03:19 PM on 09/01/2009
The "stolen" water did not come from the Angeles National Forest.
05:01 PM on 09/01/2009
That's true. But without the stolen water, all those people simply could not live there to be in harm's way in the first place.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
04:20 PM on 09/01/2009
should we move to flooded midwest? tornado alley? hurricane states? where do you suggest we go? i know where your attitude can go.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
nippyfan
06:32 PM on 09/01/2009
I would definitely suggest less cigarette smoking.
photo
captainindustry
just a better con artist
03:09 PM on 09/01/2009
OMG!!! Is Jennifer Aniston safe? How about Madonna? Will her mansion be ok?

OMG!!!! I better get out there and help the papparazzi... Is Demi still dating Ashton???
03:58 PM on 09/01/2009
captainindustry,

2 firefighters already lost their lives. Hundreds of homes already burned to the ground, thousands more threatened. People are going to be homeless, injured and devastated. There is a state of emergency declared in CA ... but I see what you're trying to do there. Hilarious.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
04:22 PM on 09/01/2009
1000's are already homeless. .
photo
captainindustry
just a better con artist
06:24 PM on 09/01/2009
thenkyew
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
nippyfan
06:33 PM on 09/01/2009
You sound bitter and jaded. Humans, wildlife and nature are being burned to the ground. Get a grip.
02:45 PM on 09/01/2009
Nice people take precautions which are necessary to prevent these wildfires. Such as adequate number of firefighters, waterbombers, fire breaks, and government funding for all kinds of preventitive measures and controls after the fires start. Bad people don't think it's their responsibility to look after their neighbours and each other. That's called communism or maybe even socialism!

Then they wonder why baby jesus won't look after them and answer their sky fairy talking. Bad people get burnt sooner or later!
04:22 PM on 09/01/2009
It's a shame nice people have to put up with ecofreaks that prevent proper forest management and brush clearing, prefering things to be natural. Unfortunately for those nice people, nature's way of thinning forests and clearing brush is with fire..
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
grandma58
http://parkersnowefiberartblog.blogspot.com/
04:35 PM on 09/01/2009
Well stated
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
04:36 PM on 09/01/2009
And what conservative is going to clear brush on steep slopes that has no economic value?
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
02:34 PM on 09/01/2009
Every place has it's challenges. California has an incredible climate (that leads to the fires), wide diversity of landscape (caused by the same plate tectonics that give us our earthquakes), and produces FAR more money for the country than we take back out. We could talk to the gulf states about their hurricanes, the midwest about it's tornados, desert areas about their water imports, northern states about their blizzards - every place has it's disaster, every place has to pay the cleanup and for equipment to deal with those problems.
02:47 PM on 09/01/2009
If California has a big earthquake and a whole pile of bridges and building fall down, who is to blame? Baby jesus or the people who didn't earthquake proof the buildings? An act of dog or an act of stupidity and greed?
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
03:00 PM on 09/01/2009
Buildings are earthquake proofed. It's the law. It's in every building code. Retrofits are done for bridges and freeways.

We do learn more each time, and if you are on a bit of ground resonant to the frequency of the earthquake (and every bit of ground has a resonance frequency) - there's sometimes no amount of earthquake building that can be done.

If the building was faulty - not up to code - then it's the fault of the people who didn't bring it up to code. But if not - then it's pure act of nature. For all they love to show the crumpled buildings after an earthquake - you'll notice if you watch, how tightly they focus on the building, on the damage. That's because everything around it is fine. It's not like a hurricane, where you can have a helicopter image of huge neighborhoods, hundreds or thousands of homes destroyed - very few are destroyed.

If you look at the actual toll on earthquakes - you'll find out. California has spent a lot of time and money building for earthquakes. It takes something pretty large to destroy anything. And they will happen - but so will killer blizzards, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, etc. Every natural disaster can suddenly kick it up a notch and become the massive killer that no amount of preparation can prevent.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
03:02 PM on 09/01/2009
Take a look:

http://www.conservation.ca.gov/index/Earthquakes/Pages/qh_earthquakes_Calbigones.aspx

Lots of 7's, and aside from the distant past, not much damage. We're built for it now. Part (aside from desirability due to climate, economy, politics, etc.) of why a California house is expensive.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
02:34 PM on 09/01/2009
Hurricane versus forest fire - one blows the place down, then soaks and blows away all your posessions. The other merely burns - if you are fireproof enough, you can survive, if you've cleared all your brush, you can survive, and anything critical in a fireproof safe will survive too.

I don't know which is really worse. But a fire is more predictable. It is incredibly rare for it to take out more than the row of houses closest to the wilderness. And not even those if they are properly kept up. Fire does not travel well in houses - at least - not houses built to California standards (no wood roof!). If it's in a bunch of brush, it might get one house -but travelling to the one across the street is very rare.

Hurricanes take everything out in their path. Unpredictable. Whole neighborhoods are demolished. Doesn't matter how cautious you were. Same for tornadoes.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
01:30 PM on 09/01/2009
uuuugh.. to all the CA bashers here...
so maybe we should also move all the people out of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and the other 5 tornado states...
then move ALL the people out of the Gulf of Mexico... ya know, Florida, Alabama, Louisiana.
then move ALL the people out of all the states that border the Mississippi and Missouri rivers...
then move ALL the people out of Chicago and any other northern state that gets freezing kil-_ling winds and snow in the winter and ridiculous humid heat in the summer...
then move ALL the people out of the eastern seaboard because of hurricanes and freeing ice storms that cost us all a fortune to fix their power... oh and all that wasted heating fuel they use & cause global warming with their coal power plants! Geeez maybe they should ALL move to California...
Am I missing any states here.. hmmm... Hawaii & Alaska have too many volcanos and storms too... uhhhh..
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iblogleft
Certifiable
01:59 PM on 09/01/2009
Great case for national non-profit homeowners insurance :-)
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
02:36 PM on 09/01/2009
Yeah - you're missing the desert states - where they have a never ending disaster that would demolish them in an instant - of no water! No water, no life. They have to import it - it's a never ending disaster.

And the midwest - the tornado states. Nowhere left I can think of to move everyone.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iblogleft
Certifiable
01:13 PM on 09/01/2009
If we wanted these fires out, they would already be out.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Borys Rzonca
01:27 PM on 09/01/2009
What do you mean?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iblogleft
Certifiable
01:57 PM on 09/01/2009
We have hundreds (if not thousands) of refueling tankers and cargo aircraft that could be fitted with water tanks, or simply filled with water, just in the military alone.

There have been bills that would allow us to create more of these quick-fit fire fighting equipment for commercial and military aircraft, all considered too expensive.

Just using existing military cargo and refueling aircraft, we could have the fire out in a few days. Unfortunately, it costs the government less to just let these fires burn. Of course, the cost to people lives are horrible, and losses occur that cannot be measured in dollars, but the bottom line is, its cheaper to make people rebuild their lives than combat these fires effectively.

Remember the Berlin airlift? We landed a cargo aircraft every 30 seconds for weeks.

It is hard for me to understand why we cannot fill the sky with existing aircraft and dump water for a few days.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iblogleft
Certifiable
09:39 AM on 09/02/2009
http://www.aerounion.com/asd/affs_video.asp

We could use systems like this, but the "cost" is the issue, not the technology or mission needs.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SusanStoHelit
02:13 PM on 09/01/2009
Simply not true. It's a huge area, and no, throwing aircraft at it doesn't solve the problem. The amount of water an aircraft can carry is limited, the sources where they can pick it up are relatively few (how do you think they get that water?) and thus they need to take turns at the ponds, reservoirs, etc.

There are already issues of firefighting aircraft having trouble with near misses - and some in-air crashes. Fires create unpredictable thermals, gusts of wind, not to mention smoke! They run along canyons to jump out in unexpected places.

It's not such an easy thing. The firefighters aren't saying they're stretched (and no wonder - California in the past has dealt with multiple huge fires in both LA and San Diego - that was a stretch) - but it takes time, and a bit of luck guessing where the wind and the fire will go, to fight a fire.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
iblogleft
Certifiable
02:30 PM on 09/01/2009
So you are saying that 100 military refueling aircraft cannot be used in coordination at 2000 feet above the fire to drop 365,000 lbs of water (EACH)? Thats what each a KC-10 can carry, and that doesn't take into account the hundred of KC-135's, C-141's and hundreds of C-131's we have at our disposal.

It is absolutely true.

Get the water from the hydrants at the airport...

I never said it would be easy, I said it was possible. Very possible.
photo
captainindustry
just a better con artist
06:27 PM on 09/01/2009
Could they use salt water?