Joe Klein Is Now Warblogging With Critics, Forever

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First Posted: 09- 1-09 03:37 PM   |   Updated: 10-17-09 05:12 AM

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Joe Klein

Time Magazine's Joe Klein is totally emo today, because people have been saying all sorts of mean things about him, on the Internet. This might be because people in the world meet him, find him churlish and weird, and then blog about it, and that's terrible for journalists who are used to living in a bubble, free from criticism. Well, Klein is upset about this, and the litigation of his hurt feelings is somehow considered news by Time, for reasons passing understanding.

Klein compiles his list of grievances today in a post titled "Glenn Greenwald," which is a subtle masterpiece of headlining. In it, he refers to Greenwald as "dishonorable" and more or less accuses him of hating the U.S. military, and, indeed, any effort to clandestinely root out terrorists. He also refers to another blogger -- herself the granddaughter of legendary investigative journalist I. F. Stone -- as a "pathetic woman acolyte of Greenwald's" (who published this first hand account of having to meet Klein in person...the bubble penetration that started this whole tiff.) Klein accuses Greenwald of publishing private emails, from super-secret journalist email gangbang club Journolist, and responds by publishing more of the same. To wit:

I'd like to quote here from a subsequent email on that thread, which Greenwald hasn't published, in which I explain why I have such strong feelings about Greenwald: [More...]
For the past several years, Greenwald has conducted a persistent, malicious campaign to distort who I am and where I stand. He is a mean-spirited, graceless bully. During that time, I have never seen him write a positive sentence about the US military, which has transformed itself dramatically for the better since Rumsfeld's departure (indeed, he ridiculed me when I reported that the situation in Anbar Province was turning around in 2007). I have never seen him acknowledge that the work of the clandestine service--performed disgracefully by the CIA during the early Bush years--is an absolute necessity in a world where terrorists have the capability to attack us at any time, in almost any place. Nor have I seen [him] acknowledge that such a threat exists, nor make a single positive suggestion about how to confront that threat in ways that might conform to his views. Therefore, I have seen no evidence that he cares one whit about the national security of the United States. It is not hyperbole, it is a fact.

Klein, in his next sentence, executes a mind-bending pirouette of pure illogic:

I am not a religious reader of Greenwald--he does go on, and on--and it's possible that I missed extensive posts in which he praises the Armed Forces or makes positive suggestions about how to track possible communications between terrorists abroad and their confederates here.

First of all, you really shouldn't be allowed to say: "Therefore, I have seen no evidence that he cares one whit about the national security of the United States. It is not hyperbole, it is a fact" in one sentence and then, in the next sentence, say, "I am not a religious reader of Greenwald--he does go on, and on--and it's possible that I missed extensive posts in which he praises the Armed Forces or makes positive suggestions about how to track possible communications between terrorists abroad and their confederates here." If you are willing to admit the latter, you SORT OF HAVE TO RETRACT THE WHOLE "IT'S FACT NOT HYPERBOLE" STATEMENT.

But, more to the point, the argumentation Klein practices here exposes either a dishonest, bad-faith brand of debating or a limited imagination. Klein's basic take is this: Either we have a security apparatus that is allowed to constantly break the law and be excused and apologized for, or millions of Americans die. This is what is known as a FALSE CHOICE. Why can't we have, for example, a security apparatus that is both effective and BEHAVES LAWFULLY? Surely that's an amenable alternative to both Americans dying constantly in terrorist attacks and the shrugging dollop of piffle in a Cheney reduction sauce that Klein is attempting to serve.

It is not hyperbolic, but factual, that waterboarding is ILLEGAL, a felonious activity. It is not hyperbolic, but factual, that the Supreme Court has ruled, in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, that detainees -- all of them -- are subject to the Geneva Convention. It is not hyperbolic, but factual, that the United States is bound to a treaty, signed by Ronald Reagan, that compels the prosecution of torture, and explicitly allows no exceptions.

What is hyperbolic is suggesting that these laws tie the hands of our security apparatus. It is similarly hyperbolic to suggest that the only way our security apparatus can operate is to secretly elide over the laws, under a veil, in an end run around the rule of law. It's often said that this is the "tough choice" that needs to be made, but it's actually the easy way out. The tough choice would be confronting the issue head on, debating it openly and honestly and deciding whether such laws needed to be changed. There's this whole thing called the "legislative process" that could accommodate this! But instead, we have people like Dick Cheney, who want all of the credit for our post 9/11 safety while taking none of the responsibility, and journalists like Joe Klein, who enable them.

And now, we're asked to accept that our clandestine forces must be allowed to go on, breaking laws and contravening treaties, so that they can maintain "morale." That's a pretty mean-spirited and graceless thing to say about the men and women who tirelessly work to protect us, and who no doubt obtain more than enough morale and motivation from the thought of defending a great and free nation. What's more: this is MENTAL. This sort of thinking would not be applicable to any other case in the criminal justice system. The flailing economy, and its attendant high unemployment rates, are certainly bad for morale. And I am reliably informed that it is a national crisis. Should people be allowed to knock over jewelry stores, for the sake of maintaining a positive attitude?

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This is the nonsense that comes buried beneath all this intra-personal wankery that Klein thinks is "news," worthy of the esteemed Time Magazine. And this is why sometimes, when people meet him, they end up wondering: "Wow. Who is this cretinous mouther of pompous bilge?"

Greenwald has already responded. And, speaking of, the aforementioned "pathetic woman acolyte" responded, winningly, to all the attention she received from Klein today. A portion:

There's nothing I can say that will make Klein more absurd than his own writings. But there is something important here. No no, not Klein's fight with Greenwald. That's like watching a man with a "lion tamer's hat" actually taking on a lion. Time was a journalist wanted to be read, and remembered for what he'd written. A "public intellectual?" Even more so. But to want that is to be determined to stand behind what you've written or what you've said. You have to take your work seriously--do your research, form your opinions, and stick to them because they are good or as good as they could be under the circumstances. But Klein doesn't want to do that--he's said too many stupid things at this point. Too many venial, corrupt, weak, vile, bought and paid for political puff balls. He said things he knew his interlocutor wanted him to say. He's said things he knew one party wanted him to say although he knew that they were untrue, or dangerous, or foolish, or just partial. He's not a public intellectual--he's a fucking wind sock. And he knows it.

The "windsock" metaphor is choice. That's the sad truth. When Klein finds himself blowing in the intellectually honest direction, it's truly through no fault of his own.


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Time Magazine's Joe Klein is totally emo today, because people have been saying all sorts of mean things about him, on the Internet. This might be because people in the world meet him, find him churl...
Time Magazine's Joe Klein is totally emo today, because people have been saying all sorts of mean things about him, on the Internet. This might be because people in the world meet him, find him churl...
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- zanzig I'm a Fan of zanzig 40 fans permalink

Jason this is your most brilliant piece of writing yet! Analogies, metaphors, beautifully evocative phrases - ah an absolute joy!

Oh and the subject was almost too easy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 09/02/2009
- TRYKER I'm a Fan of TRYKER 71 fans permalink

Thanks Jason, that was super! "the shrugging dollop of piffle in a Cheney reduction sauce that Klein is attempting to serve." The best line I've read in moons.

Klein is in over his head and past his time. Taking on Greenwald of all people? There is no way out of this for "joke line". He thought he belonged to a "real secret" club of journos that would "honor" his slander and hold his hand while he pi**ed all over Glenn Greenwald. Ooops.
"....but but but Glenn didn't ever say he supported our troops"...oh groan Joe, how lame.
The only thing left for him to use is Apple Pie and the good christianist nation...maybe aligning with those will win back all his lost readers. Nah.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 09/02/2009

I've always found Joe Klein's writings to be elucidating on complex matters and Greenwald's posts to be baroque on simple matters. I can see how the two journalists are at odds, and I can especially see how Greenwald would be gunning for Klein. He likes to go after people, especially those who do try to see both sides of an issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 09/02/2009
- kindGSL I'm a Fan of kindGSL 15 fans permalink
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Great post, really enjoyed it. Thanks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:04 PM on 09/02/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 164 fans permalink

I think Klein is another journalist, like Bob Woodward, who sold out during the Bush adminsitration. They saw the country heading in a mindless, jingoistic, flag-waving direction that did not want objective information, but just success at killing and capturing al Qaeda. So the Bush adminsitration, with the help of the press, included everything under the rubric of al Qaeda, even the necessity of its own reelection. Torture was necessary because of the threat from al Qaeda; black site prisons were necessary; unlimited detention without rules was necessary; a war with Iraq was neceassry; listening to the phone calls of American citizens was necessary. Klein and other journalists supported these policies often with just crazy talk and now they have found it hard to come back to the real world where critical thinking is necessary. I hope they remain as outcasts in some cold, Siberian place for journalists who have lost all their credibility and have traded their integrity for fame, fortune, and access.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 09/02/2009
- andygaus I'm a Fan of andygaus 2 fans permalink

When he was accused of being the author of Primary Colors, Joe Klein swore up and down and said that he would put his entire reputation on the line to back up that he was not the author, which of course he was. My feeling is that you can only stake your entire reputation and integrity on a lie once, and you can't afterwards just pick up a spare integrity and start over. Apparently I'm wrong, because that's essentially what Klein has been allowed to do; but in all fairness he should rightly be dismissed as a joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 09/02/2009
- salvesons I'm a Fan of salvesons 4 fans permalink

True.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 09/02/2009
- pfc1369 I'm a Fan of pfc1369 112 fans permalink
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Two bald men fighting over a comb.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 09/02/2009
- changeself I'm a Fan of changeself 51 fans permalink

he's a classic example of conscience-free opportunist,

with no clue about justice and morality.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 09/02/2009
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Personally I think Glen(n) Greenwald made up that extra n in his name so he could be all "I got two n's" priggish.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 09/02/2009
- ouroborous I'm a Fan of ouroborous 61 fans permalink
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I'm amused by the "lion tamer hat" reference (the quote here took the YouTube link out). It's a reference to a Monty Python skit about an accountant who longs for a life of adventure, so wants to become a lion tamer. When the career counselor asks him if he's got any experience, he says "well, I've got a hat."

Watching Joe Klein go up against Glenn Greenwald (who is a lawyer, who is consistent in his opinions instead of flapping in the wind, who checks his facts and documents them, who is pretty much fearless when it comes to journalism, and who is about 1000 times smarter than Joe) would indeed be like watching an accountant with a "lion tamer" hat go up against a real life lion.

PS: Arianna, can we invite Glenn to be a guest blogger here more often? I think his brand of well-documented, ruthless journalism on issues of media integrity and civil rights would be a wonderful addition to the HuffPo mix.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 09/02/2009
- Eris23 I'm a Fan of Eris23 49 fans permalink

Klein is a baby. For his talk about bullies, he reminds me of the kid on the playground who was big enough to throw his weight around a bully others, only to cry like a baby when someone clocks him clean and square, knocks him over, and causes others to realize he is an empty threat.

Keep crying, Klein. It's impressing a lot of people. :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 09/02/2009
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Agreed.

He is one of many who were the subject of S. Colbert's address a few years back.
He deserved it then, and deserves it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 09/02/2009

Right on. The Beltway crowd can only get into trouble when they step into the real world. I shudder to think of the time when the Klein/Time versions of events were all we got. Their demise cannot come fast enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 09/02/2009
- MSB I'm a Fan of MSB 45 fans permalink
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Right on.

Joe Klein has been an irrelevant waste of time for years now.

I'm sorry if that offends his delicate sensibilities. It must be....... 'torture'.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 AM on 09/02/2009
- kindGSL I'm a Fan of kindGSL 15 fans permalink
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What I don't like is how he and his cohorts have justified and argued for both torture and war.

I think they keep it up because they know they are guilty of conspiracy to commit treason and the only way they are not going to go to prison for it is if they can convince the rest of us to ignore their group criminal activities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 09/02/2009

Bravo, Jason, Bravo! As for aimai, freakin' brilliant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 09/02/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 164 fans permalink

I.F. Stone's take on Klein in the link in the article above is brilliant!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 09/02/2009
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