The Sacramento Bee:
The UC Davis Violence Prevention program will release a report today that claims guns shows are a major source of weapons used in crimes.
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"only 2.9% of guns used in crime come from gun shows." Me
Correction- Make that fewer than 2%.
http://www
" A flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%.
A retail store or pawn shop for 12%.
Family, friends, street buy, or an illegal source for 80%."
Are you paying attention, jsgaetano?
The NRA doesn't do crime stats. Unlike anti-2nd Amendment organizations such as the Joyce Foundation or the Brady Campaign, the NRA does not conduct studies or fund research, either. The NRA's source is unbiased. They, as we, rely on the Dept. of Justice for statistics.
As far as I know, the Justice Dept. is not in the employ of the NRA.
If Wintemute stays true to form, the "research" will rely on anecdotes and on if the firearm has EVER been sold at a gunshow.
Let's say someone buys a new firearm from dealer at a store front. His son inherits the firearm. The son sells the firearm at a gun show. The person who bought firearm at the gun show sells it to a pawn shop. The pawn shop sells it to another person. The firearm is stolen from that person and subsequently sold to another unsavory character who then uses it to hold up a store, but gets caught. According to Wintemute's other "studies", the firearm "came from a gun show", despite the rather torturous chain of possession. One could as easily come to the conclusion that the firearm came from a store front dealer, inheritance, a pawn shop, or stealing.
The truth, as you point out, is that less than 2% of firearms used in crimes come from gun shows.
According to the FBI, only 2.9% of guns used in crime come from gun shows. Thats hardly a "major source".
While I am a conservative, and believe in outdated concepts like the constitution, I really do hope a gun ban happens.
After all, one thing we know is that prohibition drives prices up.
I own a CNC Mill , and can crank out any part for any gun I want in a matter of minutes to hours.
All a gun ban would do is make me a Billionaire in a year tops.
And what a noble profession! When you're gone, they'll certainly be able to say of you, "He made the world a more beautiful place."
It's time to change the bong water.
Names like Sam Colt, John Browning, Eugene Stoner, Eliaphet Remington, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson, and Oliver Winchester are revered in our history.
If you're going to be a criminal, might as well go for the gusto. Make some homemade Stens, homemade suppressors, SLAP rounds, etc.
And the liberals would finally have their wish: America would be just like Eastern Europe.
The Constitution only became an outdated concept during the GWB administration.
But yeah, I'm not surprised a Gooper would be happy about selling weapons to criminals and terrorists.
js--the proRKBA people tend to be far more serious about disarming criminals than you are--but then again you advocate disarming the law abiding
The article makes no mention of crime. All it does is complain that private citizens can buy and sell guns.
Shocking! Who would have thought that high school dropouts/h
Instead why not graduate degree, professional certifications, plus guns & ammo and gun show enthusiast equals law abiding citizen?
Shocking! Another nincomp00p making derogatory ad hominem rhetoric.
Stupidity and Firearms..
Actually the federalized police prove your point on a daily basis.
It is my understanding that many neighborhoods in America are run by gangs.
Seems like if the govt wanted to cut down on crime they would rid the communities of these gang controlled neighborhoods where people are killed for wearing the wrong color when they cross a block.
The government won't get rid of the gangs, because it needs the gangs and the resulting crime to justify more gun control.
What a crock.
"MORE" gun control? WHAT gun control? is more like. Or will you only be satisfied when you have your own arsenal that will enable you to take out Mexico if you so choose?
It's hard work fighting gangs in low income neighbourhoods. For some kids with dysfunctional families, the gang takes the place of family. Where gang leaders are obviously making money off drugs and robberies, the kids are lured by the apparently easy life. Where the police have done a poor job of protecting low income citizens or acted in a racist fashion, the gangs are "us" against them. And then there's always the romantic thrill of being an outlaw.
Decriminalizing marijuana would undermine the income of gangs, for a start. Pumping money into 'hood schools would help at least some kids get out. Less fear-mongering by the media would help too.
Thanks for bringing this up. My work with "gang" kids in L.A. for the last 25 years puts me in your camp.
I would suggest an excellent Documentary that I have used with the kids and in training others who work with them, "Crips and Bloods: Made in America. Neither individual behavior nor culture just "happens." This historical perspective makes that clear.
Anecdotall
Where do you get your version of reality from, watching West Side Story?
The Usual ...
Bureau of Justice Statistics
http://www
check the Press release
http://www
0.7 percent obtained at a gun show.
Criminals don't like gun shows because of the high density of Law Enforcement types. Just by being at a gun show a criminal, if recognized, will be arrested and spend time in prison. Easy bust with a high conviction rate.
Levi Johnston for Supreme Court Justice!!!
Because criminals can't buy weapons from people who purchased them at gun shows.
Riiiiight.
"Because criminals can't buy weapons from people who purchased them at gun shows."
The same argument can be made for any purchase anywhere and is not something special about gun shows. They can and do buy them at regular gun shops and then illegally transfer them to others.
I've been to a gunshow or two. There were lots of guns being sold in the parking lot outside the venue where the gunshow took place. One guy selling weapons out of the back of his truck was telling a customer that the parking lot is the best place to transact a sale "because the ATF guys are all inside".
BREAKING NEWS: water is wet.
Duh.
MORE BREAKING NEWS:
Liquor stores are directly related to alcohol-related crimes.
Car dealerships are directly related to motor vehicle accidents.
Home appliances are directly related to ocassional home applicance fires.
Stairs are directly related to trip and fall accidents.
Well duh.
If you are a terrorist or criminal, a Red State gunshow is the best place to go. No "big gubment" standing in the way of the seller making money.
Plus, it's also the best place to sell stolen weapons.
You know this from experience, maybe?
Stolen goods are sold at flea markets all the time. What makes gun shows any different? "Industry Self-Regulation", right? LOL.
Next thing you know researchers will be linking violence to guns...
And maybe even homicides.
You might be on to something!
(Runs to the computer center).
Just like having a computer is proof that you are involved in child porn!
And having a full set of dishes and silverware causes obesity!
And... yeah.
"Researchers seek to discover the causes of violence and how it can be prevented.
How much research does it take to figure out that being really poor causes violence?
And a person having a history of criminal activity contributes to violence
Being poor CAUSES violence? How so?
People need to eat, have somewhere to live, pay medical bills, insurance, and utilities and when they can't afford it all because there aren't any decent blue collar jobs left some turn to crime while others escape by using drugs which has created a shooting gallery in our inner cities. The so-called war on drugs has filled our prisons with poor kids, the sentence for crack which is cheap is much harsher than powder which is what white kids tend to use. Prison just makes people tougher and meaner so when they get out it's right back to the streets.
If there is no link, then why is crime almost ALWAYS higher in poor neighborhoods? I always use Long Beach, Ca as an example. I worked there in the various neighborhoods for a few years. Down near Pacific and Long Beach Blvd, you have the "poor" neighborhoods with tons of crime. Drive a mile towards the beach and you have beautiful houses, wealthy people and very little crime.
The poorest states in the nation are some of the states with the lowest crime rates.
Source?
What is the cause of violence? That is the question for the ages. In America "in 2001 alone approximately 903,000 children were confirmed victims of maltreatment and an estimated 1,321 children died as a result of abuse and/or neglect." (American Humane Society). This only accounts for violence towards children.
Violence is institutional and it is in every corner of our society. Some of the hate mail posted on these forums are a testament to its pervasiveness and our culture's cavalier attitude towards the constant hate.
The causes of violence are indeed pervasive in our society, so much so that many people do not recognize them. Economics, education, environment, and ethics have shaped our cultural norms to the point that they are exceedingly violent. Violence is even glorified on TV and in the movies. Yet our society is so accustomed to these things that we blindly stare past the cause and cry out about how much violence there is; or worse, blame objects for people's behavoirs.
Just last month we were on a long drive, we were hungry, we needed gasoline, and we were going to pull over in the next town when we noticed a sign advertising a gun show happening in that town that night.
We drove another 10 miles to get to the next town where we bought gas and ate dinner.
Maybe the gun show helped the economy of that first town, or maybe they lost business. They sure lost ours.
"Just last month we were on a long drive, we were hungry, we needed gasoline, and we were going to pull over in the next town when we noticed a sign advertising attendance at a Black church service happening in that town that night.
We drove another 10 miles to get to the next town where we bought gas and ate dinner."
Hmmm, yeah. The old "replace the word" test reveals what the real truth is here. Hatred of your fellow citizens because they feel different than you; stereotyping them as dangerous, "wrong", lowly people that "good" people like yourself don't want to associate with.
Bigot.
Maybe you should just shoot angrydove.
I have been to a gun show. I saw one man with a shaved head who had used shoe polish or some similar substance to color in his hair. He had a small boy with him. Another guy had two swords slung across his back and wore white eye contacts and vampire teeth. It was a show all right.
I attended the opera and saw a lady with her hair done in three different neon colors with tattoos on her face and a man wearing a geometric print orange on white caftan with bead and flowers around his neck. "It was a show all right."
Thanks for perfectly illustrating the mentality of the right. You can't differentiate between make believe and reality.
If you don't hunt in order to eat, you don't need to own a gun. I don't own a gun. I don't want to own a gun. I don't know why anyone would want to own a gun unless they hunt to eat or have some social disorder that lends itself to unreasonable bouts of paranoia. In the case of the later, they don't need a gun, they need a shrink. The second amendment says nothing about private citizen's rights to own guns. It speaks to militia's. It speaks to a different time in a different America. Thanks to our Constitution and our strives to become a more perfect Union, we have evolved to a more civilized, just society. Or have we?
And who do you think the militia consists of?
Probably all those Texans who were chanting "We Hate America" last weekend.
How about owning a gun to defend your life and the lives of your family, friends and neighbors? Self defense is a far stronger argument for gun ownership than hunting
Stick a sign in your yard and window informing the neighborhood saying
There are no guns in this house. We do not believe in them
You are majorly paranoid.
Stick a sign in your yard and tell people you have guns in the house.
Then wait and see how long it is before people kill you and take your guns.
Pull your head out of your @ss and I'll stick the sign there.
The militia is, technically, private citizens that can be called upon to perform organized service for the country. It is all citizens, originally able-bodied males between the ages of 17 and 45 that could bear weapons, but would now be expanded to all citizens.
And no, the National Guard doesn't count because it is an auxiliary branch of the Federal Army and by law must resort to discriminatory hiring practices (ie, no females in combat roles, no diabetics or epileptics, etc).
Your post is rife with arrogant ignorance-- YOU don't like guns, so NO ONE should have them, and those that do are stupid/mentally deranged. You are a hoplophobe, a person with an irrational psychological fear of weapons. The irony is amusing.
You were obviously born a few centuries too late.
There is no official definition of the militia. But if I take yours to heart, I can quickly apply a certain section of the Constitution that says the President may call up the militias of the several states and he is their Commander in Chief, the same as he is that of the regular army and navy. But I doubt that a lot of the "militias" out there would legally come to a call from this President, because their nature is not to do so.
From the US Code, Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Chapter 13, Para 311;
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
I'll support your right to have a militia if all of you are restricted to using flintlock muskets.
I don't need to hunt to eat; I just happen to like venison and don't find it often at the supermarket. The think about a gun is that it is not needed till it is needed. If you really need one and don't have one the situation may become serious very quickly.
In serious social disorder paranoia is a rational response to a diffused and ambiguous "real" threat to one's life. The best course of action is, I think, to withdraw to a secure well defended position. I don't think I want to have to defend such a position with a stick.
Historically, in cases where an entire population was subjugated by its leaders, its military, or its own police, ownership of weapons has been severely controlled or completely forbidden by the ruling powers.
I don't think a complete police state under fascist dictatorship is an immediate threat in this country, but there is no sense being stupid, or naive about it.
The violence in America is institutionalized to the point that we are exposed to hate, bigotry and violent ideation daily. I do not call this civilized. Violence is a state of mind, a thought process and is very much a reality. We are often quite primitive. Ghrist, Ghandi, both murdered, were preachers of non-violence. If the problem were just guns, it would be much easier to solve.
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First Posted: 09- 2-09 12:45 PM | Updated: 10-18-09 05:12 AM