Senate Amtrak Gun Law: U.S. Senate Approves Firearms On Trains

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ANDREW TAYLOR | 09/16/09 06:30 PM | AP

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WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Wednesday to permit passengers on the Amtrak passenger railroad to transport handguns in their checked baggage.

The proposal, approved by a 68-30 vote, seeks to give Amtrak riders rights comparable to those enjoyed by airline passengers, who are permitted to transport firearms provided that they declare they are doing so and that the arms are unloaded and in a securely locked container.

"Americans should not have their Second Amendment rights restricted for any reason, particularly if they choose to travel on America's federally subsidized rail line," said Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., who made the proposal.

Wicker's amendment would deny the railroad its $1.6 billion taxpayer subsidy unless it changes the gun policy.

Current Amtrak policy, put in place after the bombings of passenger trains in Madrid five years ago, prohibits weapons, including firearms, from being carried on its trains.

Prior to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, Amtrak permitted firearms to be carried on its trains so long as they were separately secured in locked baggage or carrying cases. But it added restrictions on carrying weapons after 9/11 and imposed a total ban on all weapons after the Madrid bombings.

Wednesday's vote was the latest in a string of victories for gun rights activists in the Senate despite Democrats' sizable majority. Some 27 Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, voted for the amendment, many from Western or Southern states. Independent Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who aligns with Democrats and is one of the chamber's most liberal members, also voted on the pro-gun rights side.

"Law-abiding people who choose to travel by rail should be able to carry their firearms as they would on an airplane – in checked baggage," National Rifle Association spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said.

Opponents of changing the policy back, such as Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., say it would be too costly and burdensome to return to the old policy. Durbin said that "Amtrak doesn't have the security infrastructure, the processes or the trained personnel in place to ensure that checked firearms would not be lost, damaged, stolen or misused."

The chief author of the underlying transportation appropriations bill, Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said implementing the policy would be too costly.

"Amtrak would have six months to build a process for checking and tracking firearms. It would have to find the manpower necessary to screen and guard firearms and it would have to purchase the equipment necessary," Murray said. "If they do not comply, Amtrak will shut down."

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said he "doesn't have problems with people transporting guns on trains so long as steps are taken to make sure they're secured and properly stowed."

He added that some senators are eager to get back in good stead with the National Rifle Association after crossing the group by voting to confirm Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court and to defeat a proposal to permit people with concealed weapons permits to carry hidden guns outside their home states.

The legislation still must be reconciled with a House-passed measure than does not contain the gun rights provision.

WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Wednesday to permit passengers on the Amtrak passenger railroad to transport handguns in their checked baggage. The proposal, approved by a 68-30 vote, seeks to gi...
WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Wednesday to permit passengers on the Amtrak passenger railroad to transport handguns in their checked baggage. The proposal, approved by a 68-30 vote, seeks to gi...
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- djcrsn I'm a Fan of djcrsn 17 fans permalink

Dreamweaver--what other rights enumerated in the BOR would you demand training, licensing and registration for--literacy tests for voting perhaps? The BOR not applying for anyone who is not serving in the military or a veteran thereof? I know you would not approve of my conditions to not fight your ill conceived licensing scheme--for people who are vets, as soon as the NICS check is passed, a license to carry open or concealed everything from the little NAA 22 revolvers that are small enough to fit on a key chain to every milspec firearm in the inventory (handguns, M16s, M14s, AKs, Galils, machine guns, the whole works) and for civilians--NICS and no more than a 4 day course and same license issued.l

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 09/21/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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It sure got quiet in here.... Maybe people have started to actually read the proposed law or the article

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 PM on 09/18/2009
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Either that or they're bored.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 PM on 09/18/2009
- mike102 I'm a Fan of mike102 14 fans permalink

DW , you've been talking a lot about propaganda. Every political party, candidate, special interest group, much of the private sector, etc., uses propaganda.

And the gun control lobby, especially the BC, makes the NRA pale in comparison. I recently mentioned their prediction that in Washington DC, "children" would legally be able to march around the streets with assault weapons, and that terrorists would be able to set up sniper nests along motorcade routes, if DC's gun laws were changed. That's just one example, but it's my favorite.

They also like to propagandize about the 'gun show loophole', because it violates this policy of theirs: "A Brady report makes a strong case for Brady background checks on all gun sales in America, including those at gun shows. Allowing dangerous people such as convicted felons and domestic abusers to buy guns without criminal background checks threatens the safety of our families and communities. Our national policy should be: no background check, no gun, no excuses."

This goes hand in hand with their demand that every purchaser, or recipient of a firearm go through a background check. If you buy a gun for someone else, and you go through the check yourself, it's a 'straw-purchase' in their book......­..........­..........­...unless you're Sarah Brady's grandson.

Then it's OK for Grandma to buy the gun, and give it as a gift to someone who doesn't have to go through a background check.

Lies, propaganda, AND hypocrisy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 09/18/2009

I really got a kick out of the one on the Brady site that said college students who (legally) own guns are more likely to break the law and abuse drugs.

I forget how they arrived at that conclusion, but I'll bet Kellermann and/or the Joyce Foundation had something to do with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 09/18/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 18 fans permalink

I think they got it from Harvard researcher David Hemenway, another Joyce foundation lackey:

http://www.joycefdn.org/News/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsId=75

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 09/19/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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Since there are two nearly indentical discussions going on -

Here is what the bill actually says:

(1) if an Amtrak station accepts checked baggage for a specific Amtrak route, Amtrak passengers holding a ticket for such route are allowed to place an unloaded firearm or starter pistol in a checked bag on such route if--

(A) before checking the bag or boarding the train, the passenger declares to Amtrak, either orally or in writing, that the firearm is in his or her bag and is unloaded;

(B) the firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;

(C) such container is locked; and

(D) only the passenger has the key or combination for such container

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 09/17/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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"I am against assault weapons and powerful military weapons being available for most people." - DreamWeaver1940

Can you tell us what you think "assault weapons" are?

How about "powerful military weapons"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 09/17/2009
- HisXLNC I'm a Fan of HisXLNC 7 fans permalink

I don't even know why you bother questioning her hyperbole.

Military firearms aren't anymore powerful than civilian firearms and it's been that way for the past 150 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 09/17/2009
- djcrsn I'm a Fan of djcrsn 17 fans permalink

5.56 NATO and 7.62X39 are actually fairly low powered rounds (223 Remington and downloaded 30 30)--which are on the lower end of the power range for hunting ammo (that is just for common North American game like deer and wild boar)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 09/20/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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"It IS for carrying firearms on trains, " - Solja

No, it is not. It is about transporting unloaded firearms in checked baggage. That is not the same as "carrying". Read the article or better yet, read the proposed amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 09/17/2009
- benEzra I'm a Fan of benEzra 18 fans permalink

Good. If Amtrak wants to be a serious competitor to the airlines (and they should), they need to ACT with at least the professionalism of an airline. You can check firearms through to your destination when you fly on an airline; there is no reason that you can't do the same if you choose to take the train instead. This just applies the airline rules to trains, too, and repeals the ridiculous Bush the Younger transport ban.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 AM on 09/17/2009

"STOP POSTING THIS GARBAGE repeatedly! It's not true. It IS for carrying firearms on trains, because they were banned before this (still are until the POTUS signs the bill). Get your story straight and stop spamming with this junk!" Solja

There should be rule about not posting comments without reading the blog first, which you clearly didn't.

Always get your own story straight before ranting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 AM on 09/17/2009
- mackbolan I'm a Fan of mackbolan 5 fans permalink
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dear dreamweaver.....
we do allow loaded guns on planes....the air marshals fly on every route that the airlines have...and they are carrying loaded guns....its called deterence...its the same as concealed carry for citizens...its hard for a terrorist to know if the person next to them or two rows away is armed...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 AM on 09/17/2009
- avchavis I'm a Fan of avchavis 202 fans permalink
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This ought to make the gun wa.ng.n.u.t.s happy. Where are the ones screaming about their freedoms being taken away? You will able to bring a gun on trains too now - HAPPY?!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:24 PM on 09/16/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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You will be able to TRANSPORT them on trains, unloaded, in locked, hard sided cases, in the checked luggage away from the passenger compartment. Just like in airplanes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 PM on 09/16/2009
- Solja I'm a Fan of Solja 112 fans permalink
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This doesn't make sane individuals happy, so you might curb your repetitive posts. I've seen it at least 3 times and your argument doesn't make it any better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 AM on 09/17/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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How to check in firearms on airplanes:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

These are the same rules that they want to use for trains.

Again, this bill is NOT about CARRYING FIREARMS ON TRAINS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 PM on 09/16/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 18 fans permalink

It's about time this new policy was put in place! The ban on guns in checked baggage was a totally irrational response to the Madrid bombings. Obviously guns are different than bombs because unlike bombs, guns can't simple "go off" while they are sitting unattended in a locked container.

Always nice to see common sense restored.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 09/16/2009
- Solja I'm a Fan of Solja 112 fans permalink
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You have no sense if you think common sense has been restored. You aren't paying attention if you think that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:16 AM on 09/17/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 18 fans permalink

Care to articulate that position? Or are you short on facts?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:40 AM on 09/17/2009
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I didn't know about this policy in the first place, so I won't complain about it being gone, especially if the airlines have the same unfortunate policy. It's just too bad that, as Helmke said, "some senators are eager to get back in good stead with the National Rifle Association after crossing the group by voting to confirm Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court and to defeat a proposal to permit people with concealed weapons permits to carry hidden guns outside their home states." Two tiny steps forward and one step back is still progress, I suppose, toward rationality about guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 09/16/2009
- Ohio9 I'm a Fan of Ohio9 18 fans permalink

How is this new policy "one step back"?

What threat is posed by a gun in a locked container being transported from one place to another?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:55 PM on 09/16/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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"especially if the airlines have the same unfortunate policy"

How exactly is being able to check an unloaded firearm locked in a hard sided case through as checked baggage (NOT carry on) an "unfortunate policy"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 09/16/2009
- mike102 I'm a Fan of mike102 14 fans permalink

No wonder he deosn't want to interact with "fellow travellers". His fellow travellers keep desrtroying his arguments.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 AM on 09/19/2009
- djcrsn I'm a Fan of djcrsn 17 fans permalink

Dreamweaver--glad to see your true colours again. You are incredibly rude and misinformed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 09/16/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 63 fans permalink
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"Amtrak would have six months to build a process for checking and tracking firearms. It would have to find the manpower necessary to screen and guard firearms and it would have to purchase the equipment necessary,"

Sounds like a stimulus plan to me - more demand for more durable goods and more employment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 09/16/2009
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