Obama: Patriot Act Surveillance Law Should Stay

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LARRY MARGASAK | 09/22/09 07:17 PM | AP

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WASHINGTON — The Obama administration promised Congress on Tuesday to negotiate stronger privacy protections for Americans under terrorism surveillance but insisted on retaining current authority to track suspects and obtain records.

Liberals on the House Judiciary Committee were left unsatisfied, clearly wanting the administration to go further and pledge to curb what they consider abuses of the Bush administration.

They repeatedly insisted that the law be rewritten to require better justification for wiretaps and subpoenas, and Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., even compared the Obama administration's position so far to that of the Bush administration.

"You sound like a lot of people who came over from DOJ (the Department of Justice) before," Conyers told Todd Hinnen, deputy assistant attorney general.

Congress is starting to consider changes in three expiring provisions of the USA Patriot Act, a counterterrorism law initially passed after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

These three provisions require the government to seek permission from a special foreign surveillance court for subpoenas and surveillance. The Bush administration, while using the court, also had the National Security Agency – without warrants – eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for terrorist activity. That program ended before Bush left office.

Hinnen told a Judiciary subcommittee, "We are ready and willing to work with members on any specific proposals" that would provide "effective investigative authorities and protects privacy and civil liberties."

Conservative lawmakers want to reauthorize the expiring provisions without changes, insisting the statute helped prevent attacks.

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"All of this hyperbole" about trampling civil liberties "has not been borne out in litigation. I don't feel we should break something that doesn't need fixing," said Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., R-Wis.

Conyers launched a tirade against a Bush administration incident described in a heavily redacted report from the Justice Department inspector general.

The report said that in 2006, the FBI twice asked a special foreign surveillance court for an order seeking "tangible things" in a counterterrorism case.

The court denied the request both times, citing the danger to First Amendment rights. The FBI then skirted the court's refusal and continued the investigation using three National Security Letters, which are basically subpoenas not approved by a court.

When Hinnen initially said he could not discuss the case, Conyers railed that news stories described the incident and asked whether the Justice Department official was questioning the inspector general's account.

Hinnen responded that abusive policies have been fixed since the Obama administration took over.

Three provisions of the Patriot Act are expiring. They provide:

_Roving, court approved wiretaps that allow surveillance on multiple phones. Law enforcement is not required to ascertain that a suspected foreign terrorist is actually using the phones being tapped.

_That businesses produce "any tangible things" at the FBI's request.

_Authority to conduct surveillance against a so-called "lone wolf," a non-U.S. citizen engaged in terrorism who may not be part of a recognized terrorist group.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., asked Hinnen why the administration couldn't conduct some of its surveillance and subpoena requests under criminal laws that provide better protections to those under investigation.

Hinnen responded that secret grand jury material later becomes public in a criminal prosecution. In a counterterrorism operation, where prosecution may not be the goal, the classified material would remain secret, he added.

Kenneth Wainstein, former assistant attorney general in the National Security Division, said it was important to continue the expiring provisions that were "born of the harsh lesson of 9/11."

"They have been effectively incorporated into our counterterrorism operations with due regard for privacy and civil liberties and with extensive oversight" by the nation's foreign surveillance court and Congress, he said.

Michael German, policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said Congress needs to "restore effective checks on executive branch surveillance powers and to prohibit unreasonable searches and seizures of private information without probable cause ... "

Meanwhile, Democratic senators working on revisions to the law introduced legislation to revise the Patriot Act, with tougher tests for the government's surveillance and records requests to a special court.

The bill by Chairman Patrick Leahy of the Judiciary Committee, and two other committee Democrats, would extend the modified provisions for four years. It also would place a four-year time limit on use of National Security Letters.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration promised Congress on Tuesday to negotiate stronger privacy protections for Americans under terrorism surveillance but insisted on retaining current authorit...
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration promised Congress on Tuesday to negotiate stronger privacy protections for Americans under terrorism surveillance but insisted on retaining current authorit...
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- JazzyJim I'm a Fan of JazzyJim 74 fans permalink
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Oddly enough, Condi Rice had a memo - without the Patriot Act - warning of the impending attacks. Of course, reading is always good. Understanding what you read is even better. So, given the fact that our "intelligence" departments were a) dismissed prior to the attacks, and then b) "used by the Bush administration to "build up false claims of WMD's" overseas - where does this madness end?

I support a stronger version of the act, not impeding on the citizens of the country - but do what is necessary to stop terrorist actions. It can be done, I think that's the goal. As the DOJ said, of the 737 times they took liberties here - on 3 were really "terrorist" concerns. The others were "criminal" activites, so they've already overstepped their constitutional boundaries as pointed out by Senator Franken. That seems to be a strong case for "dismissal" re: the criminal cases using the 4th Amendment. I'm not an attorney, but that seems common sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 09/24/2009
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I can't wait for the end of Bush's 3rd term.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 09/24/2009
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Absolutely!

Barack W. Bush needs to be voted out in 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 09/24/2009
- teron678 I'm a Fan of teron678 123 fans permalink
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LOL ...... 2012 .. is a long way .... you should be plotting insteading of whining to accomplsih this ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 09/24/2009
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Mike (sit on your hands) resist will to comment
about a ridiculous - criminal act fostered by a
government body REMOVING RIGHTS of
the people . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 09/23/2009

Obama reminds me of an abused wife. He just doesn't want to upset the Republicans. I guess he just knows his place. Maybe someday the Republicans will like him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 PM on 09/23/2009
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Absolutely fair.

I wanted a President who wasn't afraid of the Republican party.

That's why I supported Hillary Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 AM on 09/24/2009
- wildedge I'm a Fan of wildedge 42 fans permalink

"The Obama administration promised Congress on Tuesday to negotiate stronger privacy protections for Americans under terrorism surveillance but insisted on retaining current authority to track suspects and obtain records."
Crap. There's nothing to negotiate - the Patriot Act is unConstitutional
This isn't what I voted for.
2012 - Al Franken for President - Change we can believe in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 09/23/2009
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It absolutely IS unconstitutional. No discussion necessary. Let it lapse!
The things that are actually debated in this country, such as blatant unconstitutional legislature and torture, is truly surreal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 09/24/2009

"to curb what they consider abuses of the Bush administration."
So technically, if President Obama keeps them in place, arent they now abuses by "the Obama administration?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 09/23/2009
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Uh... yes, if the abuses are continued then Obama owns them.

The many things that ail us are not partisan driven, they are corporate driven.
Our entire system has been co-opted by big money. America is a corporatocracy so it matters not which party is in the White House.
The sooner we all realize that we are all in the same sh|t can together, the sooner we may have a chance of digging ourselves out of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 09/24/2009

I'd really like to argue with you....but I got nothin'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 09/26/2009
- DuPageDem I'm a Fan of DuPageDem 19 fans permalink

So Obama thinks our rights should depend on who happens to be in the White House, not on the Constitution, as some sort of insurance policy for reelection? That's change I can't believe in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 09/23/2009
- ppace60657 I'm a Fan of ppace60657 4 fans permalink

This is just another instance of President Obama being too scared to upset Republicans. He thinks if he gets rid of anything they did, and we get attacked, they'll say that's why. He needs to learn they hate him, and nothing he does will change that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 09/23/2009
- diggg I'm a Fan of diggg 6 fans permalink
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I want to like this guy- I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say you're right.

It's still no excuse. This is what separates a leader from just another crappy politician.

Personally, I'd rather my President was a leader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 09/23/2009
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If you want a President who is a proven leader who walks the walk...vote for Hillary in 2012 and send Barack W. Bush to Crawford Tx to reunite with his long lost brother.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 09/23/2009

or maybe...just maybe...he was slapped in the face with the reality of the situation when he entered the office. I'm no fan of Obama, but his committment to keep the PAtriot Act alive just reinforces my opinion that Bush was justified.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 09/23/2009
- diggg I'm a Fan of diggg 6 fans permalink
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This act is not justified no matter who is in office. What if somebody completely unhinged, or somebody who will use domestic spying for political purposes is in office in 10 years. You are giving the Executive branch the tools by which the Constitution my be dismantled.

We needed no Patriot Act to defeat both Germany and Japan during WWII and they were both much much more of a danger to us than AQ is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 09/23/2009
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That's why Barack W. Bush is escalating Afghanistan, to appease the Republican right.
That's why Barack W. Bush broke his promise (lied) about closing GITMO.
That's why Barack W. Bush broke his promise on DOMA.
That's why Barack W. Bush still hasn't changed the Iraq war strategy.

That's why Barack W. Bush continues using our tax money to bailout the wealthy on Wall Street, while tens of millions of ordinary Americans are losing everything.

I'd love to say I didn't see this coming, but Obama was a fraud to me from day one.

Hillary 2012.

It still takes a Clinton to clean up Bush's mess, not Bush lite.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 09/23/2009
- DMHendrix I'm a Fan of DMHendrix 93 fans permalink
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Its going to be a long eight years for you I'm afraid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 09/23/2009
- lennix I'm a Fan of lennix 6 fans permalink

conners need to see what his crook of a wife is doing in detroit

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 09/23/2009
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When Bush installed the Patriot Act that pretty well sounded the death kneel of what we know as our Constitution.
While in a cabinet meeting and the constitution was brought up by one in the meeting, Bush makes the statement F... the constitution, it's nothing but a gd piece of paper. From that point on, our rights have been going down the drain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 09/23/2009

On this issue, I am disappointed in President Obama's position. I like the constitution and civil liberties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 09/23/2009
- bleek I'm a Fan of bleek 11 fans permalink

O being proactive. These types of sweeping unconstitutional powers can really come in handy when your approval ratings sink into the single digits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 09/23/2009
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Fanned and favorited!

Abso-freak­ing-loutle­y.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 09/23/2009

Maybe Obushamama is ok after all

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 09/23/2009
- gbrooks I'm a Fan of gbrooks 69 fans permalink
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Maybe you're clueless about what true conservatives are supposed to stand for--The Constitution is one of those things. A major one of those things.

Start calling yourself what you really are: a neoconservative.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 09/23/2009
- larmarch5 I'm a Fan of larmarch5 39 fans permalink
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Ummm, you might want to consider who is being profiled now and why.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 09/23/2009
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CNN reports:

Obama's flip flop on the USA Patriot Act causing a backlash from voters who were duped into voting for him instead of Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/11/obama.netroots/index.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 09/23/2009
- gbrooks I'm a Fan of gbrooks 69 fans permalink
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I don't believe Hillary would be doing any better. Neither would McCain.

At least we have the best-looking of all three shysters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 09/23/2009
- larmarch5 I'm a Fan of larmarch5 39 fans permalink
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This isn't a flip flop. He voted, as a senator and pres candidate, to exempt telecoms and I think Hillary skipped the vote. They both expected a dem to win the election and wanted those powers in a dem's hands.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 09/23/2009
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So President Obama wanted to keep the same Bush/Cheney powers he ridiculed as a candidate?

Uh, flip flop anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:16 PM on 09/23/2009
- Wupazz I'm a Fan of Wupazz 2 fans permalink

This is bs. Obama is not change. He is more of the same. If you want a true progressive look at Dennis Kuchenich not sure if that is how you spell his name. He really doesnt care what anyone thinks and pushes his progressive policies. I want this law repealed. It is by far the biggest act of socialism that the right has done. I love how they claim the dems are for Big Gov. All I do is point out the patriot act. Big Brother is always watching. Who institued that? A republican. It is a joke that obama is wanting to continue it. There is a easy way to stop terrorism. Read the memos that are sent to you like the bush admin should have done before Sept11th.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 09/23/2009
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Barack Obama campaigned coast to coast ridiculing the Patriot Act and Bush's policies.
Now President Obama is CONTINUING Bush's policies.

Keep the Change, I want Hillary Clinton as President of the United States in 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 09/23/2009
- AZBunny I'm a Fan of AZBunny 4 fans permalink

NO Hillary, she would be NO better. Look at how Bill betrayed us with NAFTA and Glass-Stegal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 09/23/2009
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