Kirk Cameron Defends His Darwin, Holocaust Claims

people.com:

He's used to getting love letters and high-fives as a former teen heartthrob, but onetime Growing Pains actor Kirk Cameron isn't letting the mockery and criticism dissuade him from promoting his controversial project to dispute evolutionary theory.

"Atheism has been on the rise for years now, and the Bible of the atheists is The Origin of Species," Cameron tells PEOPLE. "We have a situation in our country where young people are entering college with a belief in God and exiting with that faith being stripped and shredded. What we want to do is have student make an informed, educated decision before they chuck their faith."

Read the whole story: people.com

Comments

[ClevelandTom]

There are churches in the U.S. per capita than any other nation. Most Americans say they are believers. Thousands of people, ordained and otherwise, preach about God, the Bible, etc. They're all over cable TV. It's very hard to find anyone that speaks against a religion, except of course for those from other religions. Excluding a few writers that can be counted on one hand, no one publically speaks out for athiesm.

So all this being the case, why do people like Cameron feel they have point out how religion is being abused? In my opinion, this is Cameron's business. If he can make other religious people feel that religion is under seige, he can get those people to financially back his ministry and provide him a paycheck. Giving away books at universities is a publicity stunt of which I am sure that Cameron is familiar with from his TV days.

[ReedYoung]

Kirk Cameron needs to take "transitional forms" off his list of "missing" scientific evidence. Ardipithecus Ramidus clearly is a transitional form from tree-dwelling primates to land-walking pre-hominids.

http://www.sciencemag.org/ardipithecus/

He doesn't even have to read any challenging "scientific research" to learn how stupid he would be to keep claiming that "no transitional forms have ever been found in the fossil record"; the Discovery Channel has dumbed it down so much that even a high school dropout can comprehend it.

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/ardipithecus/

[opprobrious]

"We have a situation in our country where young people are entering college with a belief in God and exiting with that faith being stripped and shredded."

That's what tends to happen when one is exposed to the concept of critical thought and told think for oneself.

[Cimms]

I was a Christian when I went to college and have been aethiest ever since completing my freshman year about 23 years ago. It is not the study of Darwin that made me doubt religion. It was geology. I learned about our planet and how everything was formed over 3.5 billion years rather than the days stated in Genesis.

I then studied other religions rather than just the Judeo/Christian one I was brought up with. This really opened my eyes as I learned how the Judeo/Christian religion is just a spinoff of other religions present during that time. I now view all religions as primitive man's way of explaining who we are, where we came from, and what we are supposed to do.

I have no problem with other people believing what they want to believe as long as they do not infringe on other's rights or limit other teaching like Mr. Cameron is trying to do. These people want to keep the masses un-educated as they see true knowledge as a threat to their beliefs. It is pretty sad really.

"When you realize why you do not believe in Zeus, you will realize why I do not believe in your god" -Unknown

[Principaldad]

You are largely correct about the purpose of religion. It was very much man's way of "explaining who we are, where we came from, and what we are supposed to do".

I would ask a favor of you though. Go back and read Genesis again with a slightly different eye. If you have ever studied the book "Animal Farm" you know that it is not just a fairytale about talking animals taking over a farm. Neither is Genesis merely a story about talking snakes and a man up in the sky creating things in six days. Genesis, like "Animal Farm", is full of rich allegory from which much can be learned.

The Bible and religion in general are not really constructs of "primitive man". They are instead the result of several millennia of thought derived throughout the birth and growth of civilization. Certainly, those people were less knowledgeable about many things than we are today. However, they too had great thinkers and many thousands of years in which to do that thinking.

[Principaldad]

Growing up I often wondered what the real difference was between humans and other animals. Different academic disciplines have tried to answer that question, and most of the answers aren't sufficient.

When I reread Genesis as an adult, I realized the answer was written thousands of years ago in the story of the serpent and the fall from grace. That story tells of a time when mankind grew to possess the concepts of good and evil, uniquely human ideas. It was at that point we became responsible for our own actions. To date this is the best definition I have seen for the difference between humans and animals.

There are plenty of other examples of philosophical truth to be found in Genesis, as long as you don’t get caught up in trying to believe that everything happened in exactly the ways described.

[SlithyTove]

I don't have the energy to list all the reasons why this is a frighteningly dimwitted world view, and why people like this man should be sent back to the Dark Ages in a time machine.

Professor PZ Myers takes these people apart in small pieces every day in his blog, Pharyngula:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

[jesselee26]

people don't go to college and get brainwashed into the cult of atheism. they go to college and get an education, grow up a little and stop believing in fairy tales.

[Simone Hill]

I don't know if Mr. Cameron went to college or not. Something tells me that he doesn't understand how college works or what kind of information kids get in college by what he says.

He talks about college kids getting bombarded with the evolution "theory" and that he would like for them to make "informed decisions" before dropping religion - specifically Christianity. What he fails to realize is that these ARE informed decisions.

I think Obama is right about raising the minimum standards of education to include at least some college in peoples' background. I don't really remember now what I knew (or at least what I thought I knew at the time) before I went to college but I am quite sure that I never want to go back to that level.

Cameron fails to understand is that people don't "convert" to Atheism because they read The Origin of the Species or anything like that.

Firstly, atheism isn't something you convert to. There are no Atheist churches or people "preaching" Darwinian ideas on the street.

Cameron also needs to accept the idea that its not that people are abandoning their religion. Its more like they are pursuing knowledge and the simple fact is that the more knowledge you gain and the more you develop an ability to think outside of the box ON YOUR OWN (key phrase) then religion and its details becomes more and more irrelevant and you become less and less dependent on your church for "guidance".

[Alarmist]

Good points. In college, most classes like science, are electives. I never took a science class in college, opting for art and writing electives. And college is the time you find out who you are, by exposing yourself to different ideas. Myself, having grown up in a smaller, all-white town, going to college was an amazing experience, to meet people from different places, and learning that we have a lot in common, rather than the differences the right tries to play up.

[CrisOmg]

If you look at the apparent belief system Kirkoduck adheres to, you'll notice that it is in large part based on fear.

The whole "Left Behind" series seems uplifting to those who believe what he does - who wouldn't want to be the chosen one - but the message is "Believe, or else!"

And "They Way of the Master" is very much the same. "Don't you know what a terrible, awful sinner you are? Don't you know that unless you do something to fix it, you'll end up in H3LL!!! Only Jebus can save you..."

It's the same as this... Believe, or else!!! And if you don't to H3LL with you. Literally.

[Seriously Mcmillan]

I heart Kirk Cameron. I always have and always will.

[whiskeytangofoxtrot451]

Good for you.

When he stops promoting ignorance, maybe I'll take him seriously.

[Forester]

You're not serious.

[Bloggerrogr]

There is NO conflict between *science* and *religion*

*Science* gives us the "How"

*Religion* gives us the "Why"

think it over.

FWIW

[Bitsko]

I just did . Nope.

[gaiuscaprica]

Bloggerrogr-

I think they both begin by asking why? then they ask how?- But it is the way they answer that is important.
Science imperfect, subject to question, self correcting.
Religion- perfect(se­lf-perceiv­ed), unquestionable, Dogmatic.
Intermingling the two only weakens them both perceptively.
They both need proponents that are willing to respect the other while fighting to keep them from being contaminated.

[jmpurser]

Religion gives us the why in the sense that candy corn gives us nutrition.

[CrisOmg]

Gross. I dislike both religion and candy corn. Now I know why.

[alsm9]

*Religion* gives us the "Why"

Um no. There isn't one shred of proof than any of the religions of the world are anything more than myth...so they answer NOTHING.

[Forester]

religion is the ace in the hole when our models are not yet sufficient enough to explain what we see.
"dark matter" in cosmology is an example of a current one. Over time, science displaces the unexplained, but it will never end because there are things beyond our perceptions and thus defy scientific explanation.

[Boboday555]

Dear Mike Seaver,
Why did the intelligent Desginer design cancer?
What is he an A-hole or something?
Sincerely,
The Grown Ups.

[booboo111]

He shoulda gone the druggie route like the rest of the childhood stars and then perhaps he might of outgrown it.

[kwinter]

Sounds like he did just that. And his drug of choice is religion!
Many people never outgrow it.

[booboo111]

Don't bother, it's like trying to reason with a cult member. Logic is tossed aside.

[gaiuscaprica]

A myth transcends guilt.- But if such animal exist he would definitely be sadistic.

[Agentlady007]

He was the most hansome teenager in his prime time television series in America not tooooolong ago. He was always clever and witty and charming. He won the hearts of all of America. He left the series and later years later we looked at his semi career of mini series made for TV LIfetime channel stuff, and he always made us see he will make it the long way as an actor. Later he got married and I personally never thought he would age a day. Then he got into religion, which I personaslly embraced with respect, as child stars can stay so focused in the craft, they forget to be real, and he touched realism. No one will ever take this away from him.

I don't understand all the theories of relativity yet, or today I forgot ---, but Darwin had a popint and so do his counter opinions from non-believers.

[Boboday555]

No they don't.
Arguing the validity of Evolution is like arguing the validity of gravity or whetehr or not the world is flat.
Evolution is fact!
Religion is fairytale.
But, if you still hang on to Bronze Age beliefs, do it with some gusto please.
The next time you get sick or injured go pray for healing at one of your evangelical super-stor­es/churche­s/restaura­nt/dry cleaners/movie theater.
And, when you realize you're getting sicker and sicker, swing on by an evolution based western science hospital for the actual cure.

[booboo111]

Repeat after me........­..........­.......I don't believe in science...­..........­..........­........I don't believe in science...­..........­..........­...I don't believe in science...­..........­..........­..I think it's working!!

[kwinter]

Your first paragraph sounds almost like something you would write in a high school annual.
And the second paragraph ... the first three words said it all!

[gaiuscaprica]

1 of 2
There are a lot of good things to be said about Kirk; he is a loving husband, father, one of the few former child stars that avoided drug use and a tragic end, and he is religious (a good thing it gives a lot of people a moral ethic-though not all needed to be good)
The problem with religious believes is when they become radical. He, is not the only star that is a bit unbalanced, Scientology has Tom Cruise.
Across the world people twist and turn their faith, the one claim to be true and just, and commit atrocities in the name of G_d.

I will anger people, but science and religion need to be separate (scientist should not believe in G_d ) history shows mixing the two is a disaster. What Kirk is referring in his rhetoric is what is Known as social Darwinism; which has been used by Nazis. It has been used to oppress women and minorities and in economics termed “laissez-faire” keeping government out of commerce.(basically its all about survival of the fittest)

[elmerfude]

I agree with much of what you say, but we need to be cautious here. As a scientist I do not believe in an anthropomorphic god like the Old Testament God. But it is a mistake to assume that there is no sacred impulse or sacred intelligence in nature. Granted this is still much within the realm of mystery and but this does not necessarily imply a creator other than nature itself. (Einstein called this the cosmic religious feeling and other scientists and artists and philosophers have had other names for it.) Secular atheists and religious fundamentalists both make the mistake of descaralizing nature thus contributing to the disaster we have inflicted on nature.

[gaiuscaprica]

I believe science to be intrinsically agnostic. There is nothing in the scientific method/model that prohibits beyond the shadow of a doubt the existence of G_d. If life is another example of emergence, then why not say the same for the divine? This kind of fuzzy logic is what I object to. It can only lead to more confusion, just like Evolutionary Theology has created. We have a built in glitch known as the Reptilian brain, (housed in the diencephalon and parts of the spinal cord and amygdala; the R-Complex is an evolutionary gift-depending on how you see things. I'm biased here due to my medical science training, don't hold it against me) keeps us tethered to superstition, hostility and is why we blindly follow leaders.

[gaiuscaprica]

2 of 2
Darwin himself never endorsed Social Darwinism; it is a perversion of the theories appearing on the Origin of the species.

Another emerging danger is the Big Bang theory. Georges Lemaître was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven and progenitor of the big bang. It is dangerous attempting to use the science to prove the existence of G_d.( Belief in the divine is contingent on faith and science on empirical evidence) Scientist need to drop the theory and begin from scratch, math and physics will support a sound theory devoid of Devine connotations.( never the twain should meet) at least Kirk has not reach the fanatical stage. Yet!

[whiskeytangofoxtrot451]

Here's where you lost me. The Big Bang theory is supported by observations such as the cosmic background radiation and the redshift of the universe. It is also matthematically sound. The fact that it's original proponent was a priest doesn't invalidate the underlying scientific data and observations that support it. Scientific theories should only be tossed aside when the data no longer support it. If we start tossing aside theories just because the person who first postulated was religious, we're committing the same fallacy that Cameron does by rejecting evolution simply because he thinks it was proposed by an atheist.

[rising sun]

1. Love the name
2. Love the comment

[Avantdan]

education is evil!

[gaiuscaprica]

The De*il loves an open mind- according to those who oppose progress.

[ladyvader]

Having an open mind is bad because you don't filter the bad out. Which made zero sense to me. I know what is right and I know what is wrong and I have an open mind.

[jmpurser]

I think the Devil loves an empty mind more.

[Agentlady007]

I think it makes people more money than those who think like you think on this subject.

[gaiuscaprica]

please enlighten me.
what does money has to do with anything?

[winningticket]

If Mr. Cameron can't be one with nature, how could he be one with God? To each his own I suppose.