8 Troops Killed In Afghanistan; Remote Outposts Attacked

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ROBERT H. REID and RAHIM FAIEZ | 10/ 4/09 11:41 PM | AP

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KABUL — Hundreds of insurgents armed with automatic rifles and rocket-propelled grenades stormed a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistan border, killing eight U.S. soldiers and capturing more than 20 Afghan security troops in the deadliest assault against U.S. forces in more than a year, military officials said.

The fierce gunbattle, which erupted at dawn Saturday in the Kamdesh district of mountainous Nuristan province and raged throughout the day, is likely to fuel the debate in Washington over the direction of the troubled eight-year war.

It was the heaviest U.S. loss of life in a single battle since July 2008, when nine American soldiers were killed in a raid on an outpost in Wanat in the same province.

Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan, plans to shift U.S. troops away from remote outposts that are difficult to defend and move them into more heavily populated areas as part of his new strategy to focus on protecting Afghan civilians.

U.S. troops used artillery, helicopter gunships and airstrikes Saturday to repel the attackers, inflicting "heavy enemy casualties," according to a NATO statement. Fighting persisted in the area Sunday, U.S. and Afghan officials said.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack. NATO spokesman Brig. Gen. Eric Tremblay said the assailants included a mix of "tribal militias," Taliban and fighters loyal to Sirajudin Haqqani, an al-Qaida-linked militant based in sanctuaries in the tribal areas of Pakistan near the Afghan border.

Afghan authorities said the hostile force included fighters who had been driven out of the Swat Valley of neighboring Pakistan after a Pakistani military offensive there last spring.

"This was a complex attack in a difficult area," U.S. Col. Randy George, the area commander, said in a statement. "Both the U.S. and Afghan soldiers fought bravely together."

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Details of the attack remained unclear Sunday and there were conflicting reports of Afghan losses due to poor communications in the area, located just 20 miles (30 kilometers) from the Pakistani border and about 150 miles (230 kilometers) from Kabul.

A NATO statement said the attacks were launched from a mosque and a nearby village on opposite sides of a hill, which included the two outposts – one mostly American position on the summit and another mostly Afghan police garrison on a lower slope.

NATO said eight Americans and two Afghan security troopers were killed.

An Afghan military official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of security issues, said three Afghan soldiers and one policeman had been killed in two days of fighting. He also said at least seven Afghan army soldiers were missing and feared captured.

In addition, provincial police chief Mohammad Qasim Jangulbagh said 15 Afghan policemen had been captured, including the local police chief and his deputy. Jangulbagh estimated that about 300 militants took part in the attack.

"Kamdesh is one of the most dangerous areas of Nuristan province," he said, noting that the area is across the border from parts of Pakistan where al-Qaida-linked militants operate.

Jangulbagh said that after Pakistani forces drove militants from most of the Swat Valley five months ago, militants "received orders to come to Nuristan and destabilize the situation."

Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said militants overran both outposts, but U.S. spokeswoman Capt. Elizabeth Mathias said U.S. troops were holding the outposts Sunday. She also said a roadside bomb killed a U.S. service member southwest of Kabul on Saturday, bringing the U.S. death toll for the month to 15.

The fighting occurred in a region where towering mountains and dense pine forests have long served as a staging area for Taliban and al-Qaida fighters who move freely across the Pakistani frontier.

The region was a key staging area for Arab militants who fought alongside Afghan warriors during the U.S.-backed war against the Soviets in the 1980s and is one of the few parts of South Asia where Muslims follow the hardline Wahhabi sect of Islam.

___

Associated Press Writers Rahim Faiez and Lori Hinnant in Kabul and Noor Khan in Kandahar contributed to this report.

KABUL — Hundreds of insurgents armed with automatic rifles and rocket-propelled grenades stormed a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistan border, killing eight U.S. soldiers and capturing mor...
KABUL — Hundreds of insurgents armed with automatic rifles and rocket-propelled grenades stormed a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistan border, killing eight U.S. soldiers and capturing mor...
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What should our president do? Opt to follow a strategic vision or a hasty decision on Afghanstan? Whatever our national leaders decides, it will come with a cost-blood of our servicemen and women or the weaking of our influence in the region. Eitherway, the leaders of our great nation is in a real pickel. Some Americans view the war in Afghanstan as a must win and support sending additional forces to the country. Others, support the complete withdrawl of American forces from the country withour considering our interest in the region. Both visions are short sighted. The President (PRES) decision on Afghanstan will be shape by his understanding of the region. Oh, the region -yes! If we get bogged down in Afghanstan; meaning deploying several thousand more forces to the country then we potentially lose our flexibility to fight other threats in the region. Ultimately, this could mean we will have to go to mandatory service to fight these contingencies. So, I strongly urge all to exercise some patience and allow the PRES to think through the situation and make a calculated decision based on facts & understanding. An incorrect hasty decision could effect not only the U.S. but also our friends throughout the world.



Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/04/8-troops-killed-in-afghan_n_308922.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 10/05/2009
- CMSH I'm a Fan of CMSH permalink

All great points here. Whether or not to send additional troops to Afghanistan seems to be the topic that dominates the media these days, but is this truly the crux of the matter? It is an extremely polarizing subject considering the number of troops in theater and the implications of the USG’s support or lack of support for troops fighting there.
What is the overall objective in Afghanistan? Under President GW Bush, the objective was to “disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al-Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future”. To accomplish this objective, we must continue to pressure the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, but in addition to airstrikes and meeting engagements, we must provide educational and economic aid to enable Afghans to break free of the oppressive Taliban, and that will most assuredly take more troops on the ground.
President Obama must choose to either validate the previous administration’s objectives or define a new strategy; President Obama’s reelection hopes hinge on this decision. Look to see the administration work to re-shape the argument by changing the objectives in Afghanistan to more achievable goals. The U.S. military and its allies have disrupted Al-Queda and denied them the ability to command and control world-wide terrorism operations from Afghanistan, therefore protecting the Homeland. The administration can then argue that the U.S. can continue to accomplish this objective with less troops and resources. Thoughts?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 10/07/2009
- ChelseaC I'm a Fan of ChelseaC 155 fans permalink
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Stop the war and work with the United Nations and send aid in form of food, books, clothing, etc. Those who join these radiacal groups have no other hope. Hope is what these individuals need before they are influenced by hate and violence.

There is no military solution here--religion is involved--they'll die/kill for their fundamentalist beliefs. They have nothing else.
The longer we occupy, the more resentment is fed.

Dam* George W. Bush for getting us into these wars.
Indeed, it's WORSE than Vietnam.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 AM on 10/14/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 78 fans permalink
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10 soldiers killed this weekend?
Any one who doesn't the know the war's already lost must be brain-dead.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 10/05/2009
- ChelseaC I'm a Fan of ChelseaC 155 fans permalink
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This is so sad.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 AM on 10/14/2009
- JXJASON I'm a Fan of JXJASON 10 fans permalink

Get everyone OUT of this screwed up country. We have not done enough complaining to Congress and President Obama.

We cannot police the world.

Any of you who think this war should continue should sell all your stuff, buy a one-way ticket to Kabul, and become an Afghanistan policeman.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 AM on 10/05/2009

We are there for israel's security and convenience. It is time to say No More. Let them fight their
own battles...­..

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 AM on 10/05/2009
- Macready I'm a Fan of Macready 60 fans permalink

well said PhantomBeast . . bring the troops home . . . it's over

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 AM on 10/05/2009
- ohjoe I'm a Fan of ohjoe 8 fans permalink

If you read the stories in last week's Newsweek written by Sami Yousafzai about the Taliban "in their own words", you will have a better understanding of what kind of war we are really in the midst of and who we are really fighting. The Taliban resurgence has been fueled by outsiders: Arabs, Yemeni, Somalian, Chechens, Uzbechis, etc. Al Queda is the least of our problem in Afghanistan.

There should definitely be some pressure put on the United Arab Emirates and others in the Middle East to clean up their act and control the flow of money to Afghanistan. UAE has begun putting some pressure on their populace to control terrorism but it's not enough. They should recognize that they won't be immune from this scourge forever.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 AM on 10/05/2009

Thes Essential question IS: Have the moms and dads of these young people tried to discourage them from "Joining Up" in spite of recruiter wooing tactics which are exceptionally effective for
getting new heads into the all volunter armed forces?
We know that America is in a MESS right now. NO JOBS, NO Careers, NO work/job/career security,
No Good Pay or benefits, catastrophic healthcare insurance which is virtually worthless, crumbling
American infrastructure, climbing unemployment approaching a realistic 22% across the nation,
predator credit card, bank and insurance companies, no national unity and so on.
But going into the armed forces and risking their young lives in this very dangerous place!!!
That makes no sense....

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 10/05/2009

The war is over for 8 more soldiers. Eventually the war will be over for America. Just like Vietnam ... what a waste.

ps just like Vietnam, the war will never be over for the 100,000 soldiers who return as damaged goods.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 AM on 10/05/2009
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Why would you not hold the ridge line? Our guys can't climb a hill? And what kind of air force do our guys get for the millions we spend on it? Too late?!?!?!

This just feels like incompetence, and not the Administration's.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 10/05/2009
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Sorry. One of my kids is over there and it just gets hard to handle.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 10/05/2009

Did you try to talk your Son out of "joining up", knowing what could happen over there
and how Our Young Men and Women could be turned into cannon fodder??

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 AM on 10/05/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 78 fans permalink
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Much as I hate this war, I truly hope your kid makes it back safe and sound. But it wouldn't be disloyal to join Cindy Sheehan and the Gold Star mothers, we all want to bring them back home.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 AM on 10/05/2009
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Why should the people of Afghanistan believe us. We asked them to go to a rigged election and then kept Karzai in place.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 PM on 10/04/2009
- TJCole I'm a Fan of TJCole 161 fans permalink
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Our generals suck and our use of air support, non-existe­nt...

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 PM on 10/04/2009
- jeun28 I'm a Fan of jeun28 19 fans permalink

THERE IS NOTHING TO BLOW UP WITH AIR OR DRONES

this is a no-win situation. If you read history, you would have learned the key to Afghanistan was for a quick in and out, they hate nation building. More importantly resent Americans and Russians because we used their nation to fight proxy wars during the cold war. The key was in the first 2 years to get the job done and it was not done.

Either situation pulling out or staying is a no-win situation. Why weren't the American people paying attention before we invaded Iraq? Now they want to whine. This is a no-win situation, too bad. The culprits of 911 go free.

If Obama wants to make the right decision he will have to create a solid deal with the Pakistani's and Indians, this is essential because its the key reason the Pakistani's will not get rid of all their terrorist linked groups period. Secondly, have a honest discussion with Americans: What do you want, Imperialism , World Police or give this war 1 year, or Get out now?

That's it. This sucks because my friends in the army complained about the war early on, the lack of focus, they could have gotten the job done a while ago but greed to get to Iraq's resources created a mess.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 10/05/2009
- TJCole I'm a Fan of TJCole 161 fans permalink
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You obviously know nothing of the use of air power ready for ground support...

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 AM on 10/05/2009
- GrtPyrmd I'm a Fan of GrtPyrmd 3 fans permalink
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This is Vietnam all over again. The war is not winnable. The corruption of the puppet government, the toxic poppy trade, the intractable insular tribal society, and the mischief of neighboring powers make this pipe dream impossible. Not even mentioning the barbarism they call religion. The Iraqis are enlightened compared to these 12th century religious maniacs against us. How does General McKrystalball plan on ending the conflict. These people are only a few kilometers away from a stockpile of nuclear weapons. That is their goal. What a freaking mess.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 10/04/2009
- jeun28 I'm a Fan of jeun28 19 fans permalink

No this is not Vietnam. This is worse than Vietnam. We have people who have made this war into a religious crusade for both sides. Where religion comes into play, there is no end in sight, people will die for it.

The key every nation all over the world knows about America, it cannot tolerate blood or death, ask anyone across the globe so the goal of the Taliban is to ensure enough brave troops bleed to create fear in the American public and they have succeeded.

This is a no-win situation. This is what happens when you play chess with people's life. We have played chess with Afghanistan for too long, from the cold war proxy wars to the current war. The solution bad either way.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 10/05/2009

McCrystal and the administration said they will know success when they see it... so don't ask again.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 AM on 10/05/2009

Let's get out and nuke the place.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 PM on 10/04/2009
- ChelseaC I'm a Fan of ChelseaC 155 fans permalink
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vicryl,
now there's a bright idea. not.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 AM on 10/14/2009
- demrepub I'm a Fan of demrepub 37 fans permalink
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Commentators on the left say the military ought to keep its advice private without trying to influence public debate, with New York Times columnist Frank Rich accusing the generals of an attempt to "try to lock him (Obama) in" on Afghanistan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091004/pl_afp/usafghanistanmilitarypolitics

Wow is Frank a hypocrite. He was singing the praises of the generals under Bush who criticized the conduct of the war in Iraq. Now all of a sudden it's inappropriate. You're transparent Frank.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 10/04/2009
- SamEllison I'm a Fan of SamEllison 15 fans permalink
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That would be retired generals, no active general criticized Bush.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 10/04/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 78 fans permalink
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Military code: You don't criticise the Commander in Chief till your retirement's secured.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 AM on 10/05/2009
- jalaroc I'm a Fan of jalaroc 5 fans permalink

we had a chance with afghanistan when we first went in but bush, unfortunately, screwed the troops and us when he abandoned afghanistan to settle his feud with saddam hussein. That pause in intensity gave the taliban time to regroup and establish secure bases in pakistan. The fact that bush never adequately addressed the fact that pakistan was actively supporting the taliban didn't help matters. This may sound messed up but I smile, grimly, every time a suicide bombing happens in pakistan. Their chickens have come home to roost.

Obama is basically caught between a rock and hard place. he's inherited a situation where we can not afford the resources to prevail due to the multi-front war that the bush administration committed us to. I keep coming back to that fact...2 ##$^&%ing predators for all of afghanista­n....someo­ne should give the head of the air force a pair of binos, strap his #$$ to a balloon, and put him on the border of afghanistan. No wonder Gates got so incensed. I would take away tactical prop aircraft and give it to the army and marines. I the air force doesn't want to support the troops on the ground, take their mission away.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:35 PM on 10/04/2009
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Troops continue to die, while Obama plays politics and sits on the sidelines. The General HE APPOINTED to fight the war has repeatedly asked for reinforcements and our procrastinator and chief does nothing. Good job big O. Instead of apologizing to the world for Americas past mistakes maybe you should start apologizing to the families of the soldiers that will die do to your inaction. This isn't Iraq, these people attacked us, dont forget it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 10/04/2009
- Ergon I'm a Fan of Ergon 78 fans permalink
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Write fiction much?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 10/04/2009

Troops are spread too thin. They need to pull back to towns were we can acually help establish a viable government & infrastructure. As long as the Generals are in charge, they will do the only thing they know .... use asymetric force and make more enemies.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 AM on 10/05/2009
- noneIn2008 I'm a Fan of noneIn2008 27 fans permalink

The people that attacked are Saudis and they are now in Pakistan. Are you proposing an increased invasion of Pakistan? And, why are we still in Afghanistan? The Taliban did not attack the USA on 911.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 PM on 10/04/2009

Your strategic vision is short sighted. The President (PRES) decision on Afghanstan will be shape by his understanding of the region. Oh, the region -yes! If we get bogged down in Afghanstan; meaning deploying several thousand more warriors to the country then we have no flexibility for other threats in the region (Iran, Africa, & other rogue actors etc.). Ultimately, this could mean we will have to go to mandatory service to fight these contingencies. So, I strongly urge all to exercise some patience and allow the PRES to think through the situation and make a calculated decision based on understanding. An incorrect hasty decision could effect not only the U.S. but also our friends throughout the world.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 AM on 10/05/2009
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