Shroud Of Turin Reproduced; Italian Group Says Relic Is Man-Made, Fake

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First Posted: 10- 6-09 12:51 AM   |   Updated: 10- 6-09 01:12 AM

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Shroud Of Turin

ROME (AP)-- Scientists have reproduced the Shroud of Turin -- revered as the cloth that covered Jesus in the tomb -- and say the experiment proves the relic was man-made, a group of Italian debunkers claimed Monday.

See the original Shroud of Turin compared to the one created by scientists.

The shroud bears the figure of a crucified man, complete with blood seeping out of nailed hands and feet, and believers say Christ's image was recorded on the linen fibers at the time of his resurrection.

Scientists have reproduced the shroud using materials and methods that were available in the 14th century, the Italian Committee for Checking Claims on the Paranormal said.

The group said in a statement this is further evidence the shroud is a medieval forgery. In 1988, scientists used radiocarbon dating to determine it was made in the 13th or 14th century.

But the dispute continued because experts couldn't explain how the faint brown discoloration was produced, imprinting on the cloth a negative image centuries before the invention of photography.

Many still believe that the shroud "has unexplainable characteristics that cannot be reproduced by human means," lead scientist Luigi Garlaschelli said in the statement. "The result obtained clearly indicates that this could be done with the use of inexpensive materials and with a quite simple procedure."

The research was funded by the debunking group and by an Italian organization of atheists and agnostics, he said.

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Garlaschelli, a professor of chemistry at the University of Pavia, said in an interview with La Repubblica daily that his team used a linen woven with the same technique as the shroud and artificially aged by heating it in an oven and washing it with water.

The cloth was then placed on a student, who wore a mask to reproduce the face, and rubbed with red ochre, a well known pigment at the time. The entire process took a week, Repubblica said.

The shroud is first recorded in history around 1360 in the hands of a French knight -- a late appearance that is one of the reasons why some scientists are skeptical of its authenticity.

Measuring 13 feet (4 meters) long and three feet (one meter) wide, it has suffered severe damage during the centuries, including from fires.

Owned by the Vatican, it is kept locked in a special protective chamber in Turin's cathedral and is rarely shown. The last public display was in 2000, when more than 1 million people turned up to see it, and the next is scheduled for 2010.

The Catholic Church makes no claims about the relic's authenticity, but says it is a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering.

The shroud has been strongly debated within the scientific community. Some researchers claim that patches used in the Middle Ages to repair the cloth after a fire altered the carbon-dating results.

Another study, by the Hebrew University, concluded that pollen and plant images on the shroud showed it originated in the area around Jerusalem sometime before the eighth century.

Garlaschelli told Repubblica he didn't think his research would convince those who have faith in the shroud's authenticity.

"They won't give up," he said. "Those who believe in it will continue to believe."

__

On the Net:

The debunking group (in Italian): http://www.cicap.org/

Shroud Web site of the Turin diocese: http://www.sindone.org/

ROME (AP)-- Scientists have reproduced the Shroud of Turin -- revered as the cloth that covered Jesus in the tomb -- and say the experiment proves the relic was man-made, a group of Italian debunkers ...
ROME (AP)-- Scientists have reproduced the Shroud of Turin -- revered as the cloth that covered Jesus in the tomb -- and say the experiment proves the relic was man-made, a group of Italian debunkers ...
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I saw an entire hour on either the Discovery channel or Nat Geo or History Channel debunking the Shroud years ago. It gave multiple reason why its a fake, from DNA testing coming out to be female blood, to the age of the fiber being produced 100s of years after jezus's de@th and countless other example. Everyone should know the Shroud is a fake.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 AM on 10/07/2009
- Peanutvdo I'm a Fan of Peanutvdo 2 fans permalink

This is old news.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 10/07/2009
- rosewelsh I'm a Fan of rosewelsh 8 fans permalink
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The first thing I felt when I read this was sympathy for Chr.istian­s all over the world. This was a treasure for them and meant a great deal. This sort of discovery is why so many Christi.an­s stop at nothing to try to debunk science. Science keeps unceremoniously dest..royi­ng their most cherished stories and beliefs. And then people who think religi.on is outdated rub it in their face (see 99% of posts here and elsewhere regarding religion.) Let them grieve in peace. Have some compassion, at least when you speak to them or where they can hear you. Put yourself in their shoes.

Any Chr.istian who wants to reconcile science and their faith so that it doesn't continue to hu..rt them might want to take a look at this couple's work: http://www.thegreatstory.org/

FTR, I'm a NeoPagan Panentheist.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 AM on 10/07/2009
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I'm sorry but i have no sympathy for the christian church. They have done more harm to the human race than any other.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 AM on 10/07/2009
- COPerez I'm a Fan of COPerez 56 fans permalink
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Co-sign.

Chr.istian­s have never felt empathy for those that they tor+ured or ki||ed or converted under thre@t of de@th.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:06 AM on 10/07/2009
- rosewelsh I'm a Fan of rosewelsh 8 fans permalink
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Your choice to ha.te. But two entities hati.ng each other does not make a more peaceful world. And two wro.ngs does not make a right.

Peace.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 10/07/2009
- JohnSawyer I'm a Fan of JohnSawyer 41 fans permalink
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Though the Shroud was almost certainly man-made, the date of its production is probably earlier than the 1300s. Contrary to this HuffPo article, the Shroud first appeared somewhat reliably in historical records around 544 AD, when it was found in Edessa. Earlier reports describe a cloth like it, but not necessarily the same cloth. The Pray Codex, written around 1192 to 1195, contains an image of the Shroud, with some of the same damage as we see in the Shroud today.

From http://www.shroudblog.com/sugarcoated/booknotes/page/2/
"Measurements of the chemical rate for loss of vanillin estimates an age for the Shroud of more than 1300 years, depending on storage conditions­." So, this is one indicator that the linen of the Shroud may date at least to about 700 AD, or earlier.

Another theory that combines both theories, is that the Shroud is man-made, but may show the actual image of Jesus: it may have been produced by one or more of Jesus' disciples, placing the Shroud on his body and pressing it against his skin to record his image. They may have applied something to his skin prior to pressing the cloth against it, or not.

But parts of the image are stretched and distorted in the same way as medieval depictions of people--fingers too long, etc.--and the image doesn't show the sides of a body, as presumably a wrapped cloth would have.

In other words, a lot of conflicting data.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:52 AM on 10/07/2009

All this about The Shroud is all well and good, but what's the latest on the Holy Hand Genade?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 AM on 10/07/2009

he he he :-)

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 AM on 10/07/2009
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 44 fans permalink
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"It's not quite dead yet...." Best film ever! After 12 years of Catholic School, you come out almost an atheist due to the absurdities they teach you.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 10/07/2009
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Um, it's called the "Shroud of Turino". NBC bought it and changed it's name during the 2006 winter olympics.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 AM on 10/07/2009
- LMPE I'm a Fan of LMPE 64 fans permalink

If there's ever going to be another presumably religious artifact, I would like it to show Bugs Bunny and Elke Sommer stomping on Bill O'Reilly.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 AM on 10/07/2009
- JohnSawyer I'm a Fan of JohnSawyer 41 fans permalink
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I have that hanging over my shower at home.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 AM on 10/07/2009
- COPerez I'm a Fan of COPerez 56 fans permalink
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Pix, please!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 10/07/2009
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http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/12427/shroud-of-turin/
ROME – An Italian research group has debunked the Shroud of Turn. Jesus Christ responded, “Sorry guys, my bad.”
The Shroud of Turin was believed to be the shroud that covered Christ in the tomb, which was then imprinted with his image at the moment of resurrection. Radiocarbon dating placed the shroud in the 13th or 14th centuries, however possible exposure to pollen and smoke in that era made the tests inconclusive.
Scientists in Italy have successfully recreated the image on the famous shroud using materials and techniques that were available at the time. The means of constructing the image was the last hurdle in debunking the authenticity of this holy relic.
Weekly World News hired a medium to channel Jesus Christ, who had this to say: “Psych! You just got Punked! Nah nah, I’m just kidding with you.” Speaking through the medium, he continued, “Yeah, sorry about that. I meant to tell you guys about that earlier. Not mine. Didn’t have anything to do with it. But it is pretty cool looking right? Especially before Photoshop, wow!”
The Vatican had no official comment other than “Lets not get caught up in what we believe and what’s a provable scientific fact. Nobody wins that game. Lets try to focus on what is important in all of this: ‘Wouldn’t it be neat if?’” The 700 year old relic will soon be available on Ebay.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 10/07/2009

The image is actually of Jacques De Molay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar. De Molay was tortured by a French inquisitor after King Phillip IV had the Templars arrested on Oct. 13, 1307. The torture involved being crucified like Jesus so that he would experience the pain of the Christ. They didn't want to kill him though, so he was eventually taken off the cross (probably unconcious), wrapped in a thin blanket in the manner of a death shroud, and thrown into a moldy, humid dungeon. I don't remember the particulars, but the image has something to do with a particular mold that is common in that part of France working in conjunction with the compounds in De Molay's sweat that created the image we see on the shroud. The face is a dead ringer for De Molay and the gauntness can be explained by the fact that he had been practically starving in prison for about two months before the inquisitor decided to get particularly brutal and do the crucifixion-thing to him.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 AM on 10/07/2009
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That makes too much sense.

You must be a witch.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 AM on 10/07/2009

Yeah it's true, I weigh less than a duck :)

Bonus points to anyone who gets that reference.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 AM on 10/07/2009

And this information comes from where, or were you present?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 AM on 10/07/2009
- deeriley I'm a Fan of deeriley 2 fans permalink

No need to be sarcastic when Google is your friend:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DVXA_enUS315US231&q=Jacques+De+Molay+shroud+of+turin

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:49 PM on 10/08/2009
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 44 fans permalink
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Is it the same delicious mold that results in Roquefort cheese? Sorry, feel the need to be silly once in a while. Everything is so screwed up lately!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 PM on 10/07/2009

I liked fairy tales when I was a little kid

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 AM on 10/07/2009
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I liked fairy tales, too, but I never bought a word of catechism.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 AM on 10/07/2009
- ManiDeli I'm a Fan of ManiDeli 2 fans permalink

The shroud is real but its an image of Darwin in a former life.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 PM on 10/06/2009
- Mandan I'm a Fan of Mandan 4 fans permalink
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Aint goin for miracles but OK with a little reincarnation eh...?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 AM on 10/07/2009
- MikeHermit I'm a Fan of MikeHermit 43 fans permalink
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Survival of the refittest.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 AM on 10/07/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 570 fans permalink
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The Holy Shroud of Turin was **SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN** to be a medieval fake. In 1988, radiocarbon dating by three independent teams of scientists yielded results indicating that the shroud was made during the Middle Ages, approximately 1300 years after Jesus lived. But then again, those who believe in sky fairies are hardly interested in scientific evidence..­.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 PM on 10/06/2009
- Mandan I'm a Fan of Mandan 4 fans permalink
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Yes... you can take the Jesus out of the Shroud , but you cant take the Shroud out of the Jesus...!!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 PM on 10/06/2009
- CalebAbell I'm a Fan of CalebAbell 4 fans permalink
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"approximately 1300 years after Jesus lived"

Actually, there is no historical evidence that the mythical Jesus ever existed . . . aside from the book of fairy tales the believers refer to, but never read.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/06/shroud-of-turin-reproduce_n_310605.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 10/07/2009
- eilish I'm a Fan of eilish 16 fans permalink
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Hey! I read it. More than once. Very nice story, good guy, much of the imagery is indecipherable in modern language.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 10/07/2009

Actually there is little historical evidence that you exist:)

Anyway,.

Why should you care?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:15 AM on 10/07/2009
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Who cares about science when there's money to be made off the ignorant.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 AM on 10/07/2009

AND YOU KNOW ABOUT BIO PLASTIC?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 AM on 10/07/2009
- JohnSawyer I'm a Fan of JohnSawyer 41 fans permalink
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The Shroud was almost certainly man-made, but possibly not as late as the 1300s. The radiocarbon dating from 1988 has been criticized by one of the original Shroud investigators, Ray Rogers, who now says the the sample used (Wikipedia): "...may have been taken from a section damaged by fire and repaired in the 16th century, which would not provide an estimate for the original material. Shortly before his death, Rogers said: "The worst possible sample for carbon dating was taken....I­t consisted of different materials than were used in the shroud itself, so the age we produced was inaccurate­." Unfortunately, Rogers then makes the unsupported leap: "...I am coming to the conclusion that it has a very good chance of being the piece of cloth that was used to bury the historic Jesus." More likely, the shroud was produced some time around 700 AD or even earlier. There are reports of its existence much earlier, but it hasn't been determined whether these reports describe the same cloth, or something like it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 AM on 10/07/2009
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"The research was funded by the debunking group and by an Italian organization of atheists and agnostics.­" Totally biased, this" proof" cannot be trusted.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 10/06/2009
- WSAY I'm a Fan of WSAY 29 fans permalink
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LOL! Because the religious didn't do the research. That makes sense.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 10/06/2009

hmmmm, How exactly is an experiment that can be replicated biased??

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 10/06/2009
- johnr49 I'm a Fan of johnr49 71 fans permalink

Keep drinking the Kool Aid.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 10/07/2009
- timhere I'm a Fan of timhere 16 fans permalink
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It seems to me the proof is in the fact they did it. duh. doesnt matter what your views are if you do something you did it. Do you believe that a kid riding a bike is not riding a bike because he likes riding bikes

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 10/07/2009
- Scribe57 I'm a Fan of Scribe57 45 fans permalink
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Kinda like when Fox News talks about Obama, huh?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 AM on 10/07/2009
- WSAY I'm a Fan of WSAY 29 fans permalink
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This was fake? Gee. What a shock. What next? The earth isn't really flat?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 PM on 10/06/2009
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Say it ain't so!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 AM on 10/07/2009
- ManiDeli I'm a Fan of ManiDeli 2 fans permalink

I know that miracles still occur, I have experienced them.

While a university student I came across a piece of popcorn in the form of Max Planck. Years later in a hotel room in Florida the guest who occupied the room before me left behind a partially melted rectal suppository which the tropical heat had melted, into a perfect image of Cardinal Spellman

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 10/06/2009
- somsoc I'm a Fan of somsoc 60 fans permalink
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Mandi, and I have a pet invisible dragon that I keep in my garage. He produces miracles too. Yes he sure does, and the next time I talk to the Tooth Fairy I will tell her hello for you too.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 10/06/2009
- Foreground I'm a Fan of Foreground 11 fans permalink

Er, disregard the url that snuck into my post.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 10/07/2009
- Mandan I'm a Fan of Mandan 4 fans permalink
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Praise God...!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 PM on 10/06/2009
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 570 fans permalink
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...and pass the ammunition­... LOL

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 PM on 10/06/2009
- Mandan I'm a Fan of Mandan 4 fans permalink
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Big deal... everyone has melted suppositories that look like Cardinal Spellman..­.!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 10/06/2009
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