Most Dangerous Global Warming Deniers (SLIDESHOW, POLL)

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The Huffington Post   |  Lila Shapiro
First Posted: 10-22-09 04:13 PM   |   Updated: 10-27-09 10:10 AM

According to a new survey, the number of Americans who believe that climate change is connected to human-caused pollution (AKA Global Warming) is at its lowest point in three years. Only 57% of Americans now believe this inconvenient truth -- down from 77% in 2006, when Al Gore's film was released.

Maybe this disturbing trend is due to climate lobbyists and certain conservative politicians and pundits going all out for years now, trying to persuade the public that the growing mountain of scientific evidence supporting global warming is FAKE. Says climate professor Andrew Weaver, "It's a combination of poor communication by scientists, a lousy summer in the Eastern United States, people mixing up weather and climate and a full-court press by public relations firms and lobby groups trying to instill a sense of uncertainty and confusion in the public."

So in honor of this troubling survey, HuffPost's No Impact Week, and the upcoming International Day Of Climate Action we bring you the who's who of climate change deniers and the question: who's the most dangerous global warming denier of them all? Let's be clear: an overwhelming majority of the legitimate scientific community has said that global warming is real, and caused by humans. These folks are declaring otherwise. The contenders are below.

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Glenn Beck, conservative talk radio and television host
 
"The earth and the environment are the progressive replacement for God ... now because of our bad SUVs, according to Al Gore, the earth has a temperature. Uh oh. Unless you woke up yesterday, or today, where the temperature in the greater New York area was I believe right around 48 degrees, here in New York in late summer. There have been maybe, I don't know, what a week of typical summer days in New York this year. Period."
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According to a new survey, the number of Americans who believe that climate change is connected to human-caused pollution (AKA Global Warming) is at its lowest point in three years. Only 57% of Ameri...
According to a new survey, the number of Americans who believe that climate change is connected to human-caused pollution (AKA Global Warming) is at its lowest point in three years. Only 57% of Ameri...
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- New Chip W I'm a Fan of Chip W 18 fans permalink

Personally, I don't know. I doubt if most of those who think they know do either.
It depends on who you choose to trust, and what you want to believe.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 AM on 11/25/2009
- deanfv I'm a Fan of deanfv 13 fans permalink

apparently the Hadley Climate Research site ( the ‘inventors’ of the hockey stick temperature graph) was hacked into and a bunch of very damning emails were found. Bottom line, those “scientists” were manipulating the data. I hope it gets legs and maybe even (dream upon a star) criminal charges against some of the prominent AGW proponents.

This site usually doesn't post rumors, i.e. Winner of the 2008 Best Science Blog Award. If true, major waves ahead...

Breaking News Story: Hadley CRU has apparently been hacked – hundreds of files released
Nov 19, 2009
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-news-story-hadley-cru-has-apparently-been-hacked-hundreds-of-files-released/#more-12937

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 11/20/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 149 fans permalink

"Scientists believe climate change -- the warming of oceans -- has allowed some of the almost 2,000 jellyfish species to expand their ranges, appear earlier in the year and increase overall numbers, much as warming has helped ticks, bark beetles and other pests to spread to new latitudes."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/giant-jellyfish-swarm-nor_n_359478.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:36 AM on 11/17/2009
- Richard2 I'm a Fan of Richard2 12 fans permalink

A new Rasmussen poll, 11/15/09, finds that only 37% of Americans think climate change is caused by human activity, 47% think climate change is caused by planetary forces, and 5% think climate change is caused by other forces.

The 47% plus the 5% sum to 52% of Americans who think that if there is climate change it is caused by natural forces other than man-made ones.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 11/15/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 149 fans permalink

No one believe Rasmussen polls. They are famously inaccurate and always designed to favor the conservative's point of view. They are extremely ambiguously worded. In reality, only Fox news listens to Rasmussen. Here is an example....

Another awful Rasmussen poll

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200911110031

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 AM on 11/16/2009
- Richard2 I'm a Fan of Richard2 12 fans permalink

Rasmussen polls have credibility. They are accepted by the same people who accept the other major independent polls. The credibility of the Rasmussen polls is higher than that of any of the polls linked to cable TV channels, such as CNN, MSNBC, or FOX.

The results of the recent Rasmussen poll generally track the results of the recent Pew and Harris polls.

Public skepticism of CAGW is growing.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 11/16/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 149 fans permalink

The far right loves Rasmussen polls because they show President Obama lower in approval by 10 points than other polls. It is the same on any subject. Rasmussen is the darling of the far right and the only poll used on Fox News. The results of any Rasmussen poll are worthless to fair-minded people and not even used beyond Fox News.

"Again, you can pretty much throw out the Rasmussen numbers in terms of Obama's job approval since they're trending nearly ten points lower than many other pollsters' data." Since when do serious, 'independent' pollsters write columns urging the president to "shift right"? Rasmussen has on many occasions!

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200911140001

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 AM on 11/17/2009
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The biggest enemy of global climate change is truth. The planet has gone through many periods of global warming and cooling (ice ages) without any help from human beings.
What is the real driving force of global warming?
Try to suspend your disbelief long enough to consider the tilt of the earth's axis which gives us summer and winter. Now, add to this the fact that the axis has a wobble cycle of about 26,000 years.
I can cite the Lake Vostok ice core study (25 years ago!) that proves carbon dioxide levels rise for about 21,000 years and then drop - at least 13 times in the past 400,000 years.
Please read this article below (first published in Science) or join the Flat Earth Society like all the other wobble-deniers! (Hint: Plato knew more about the Precession of the Equinoxes than Al Gore)
http://newsroom.melbourne.edu/news/n-119

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 PM on 10/29/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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Precession of the Equinoxes, aka axial precession, as an explanation for the rapid global warming over the past 100 years makes sense... until you actually think about it.

As you say, axial precession has a cycle of about 26,000 years, which means that in the past 100 years axial precession has gone through about (100/26,000 *100 =) 0.4% of its cycle, which is far from enough of a change to account for the rapid increase in the mean global temperature we've seen over over that same time interval.

There are other earth orbital cycles too though: orbital eccentricity, orbital inclination, axial tilt, and apsidal precession. Together, according to the Milankovitch theory of climate change they account for the initial driving force of historical­ly-observe­d large-scale climate change oscillations.

Could this larger "Milankovitch cycling" account for the observed rapid global warming over the past 100 years? In a word, no. These cycles happen over timescales lasting tens of thousands of years and more, and we are currently in the middle of a of cycle which indicates that the long-term cooling trend that naturally began thousands of years ago should continue for tens of thousands of years.

That is, unless the earth's atmosphere is artificially altered by adding man-made greenhouse gases to it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 AM on 10/30/2009
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Ah yes, the old Man-Made Global Warming "thing", sigh...

The sun IS the major driver for climate on earth, always has been and always will be. Then when you find that the earth has actually shifted its axis, exposing the poles and other portions of the earth, to more direct sunlight, hmmmm, and interesting thing happens. duh....
Man's so called pollution of the atmosphere is so minimal it's hardly worth mentioning.

Question "everything" and "do your own research".

Peace.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 AM on 11/21/2009
- New OzzieTonto I'm a Fan of OzzieTonto 6 fans permalink
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Wake up, fool! The evidence is there, DIRECTLY, of human activity causing climate change. It's not about the weather: the evidence is chemical, in sources such as ice cores from Norwegian researches in Greenland, etc. It's unfortunately up to us to examine it, as the corporate media will not do it for us.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 11/25/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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(Continued from my previous post, which may show up below this one)

Compare that >0.36C to the observed increase in the global mean temperature since the dawn of the fossil-fuel era, which again is about 1.1C. Via this non-RF short-cut derivation we see that a 30% increase in atmospheric CO2 since the dawn of the fossil-fuel era corresponds to a greater than one-third increase in the mean global temperature over that same time period.

And that, again, is still not taking into account the global warming also attributable to increased atmospheric CO2 indirectly via water vapor induction.

Now what say you, goodspkr (and you too, fumes):

Does a more than one-third increase in the observed global mean temperature correspond to fumes declaration that it is instead "no thermal advantage whatsoever"?

We report, you decide.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 10/27/2009
- goodspkr I'm a Fan of goodspkr 8 fans permalink

Publicola,

I don't really understand what you are trying to say. But I do have a few questions.

Where in the world do you come up with the figure of 1.1 degrees C as being the increase in temperature since the dawn of the fossil-fuel era? Most temperature readings start in 1880 and go to the present (that is the time we had instruments) and account for about .6 degree C. Using what I think is your logic you would attribute all the increase in temperature due to CO2 yet no respectable scientist would say that.

There is a problem there. Heavy use of CO2 started after WWII. So we have about 64 years where climate change should have been going up. It seems we did have a period of 25 years where that happened (1975-2000). But we were in a cool period from 1945 to 1975 and over the past 10 years we haven't seen any increases. Now I look for fit for a theory, and the AGW theory certainly should fit more than 38% of the time.

Lord Kelvin "proved" that the earth could not be as old as the geologists said. He "proved" it using the conservation of energy. Unfortunately he didn't know that nuclear energy, not gravitation, provides the internal heat of the sun and the earth. Similarly, the AGW warmists have "proved" that CO2 causes global warming. Except when it doesn't (62% of the time).

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 10/28/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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goodspkr: "I don't really understand what you are trying to say."

If you don't understand my non-RF short-cut derivation here, goodspkr, then you don't understand logarithmic mathematics, to say nothing of not understanding my more precise derivation via radiative forcing.

In any event here again is the conclusion:

The 30% increase in atmospheric CO2 since the dawn of the fossil fuel era directly and alone corresponds to a major portion of the increase in mean global temperature that has occurred over that same time period.

And this scientific­ally-deriv­ed conclusion demonstrates that fumes' unsupported assertion that said 30% CO2 increase confers "no thermal advantage whatsoever" - which you agreed with - is false.

goodspkr: "Where in the world do you come up with the figure of 1.1 degrees C as being the increase in temperature since the dawn of the fossil-fuel era?"

That's what I get for looking too quickly at a graph - here's the graph; the number is actually ~0.9C:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

Which further reinforces my point, since the proportion of temperature increase attributable to CO2 is in fact even greater.

goodspkr: "Using what I think is your logic you would attribute all the increase in temperature due to CO2"

No, you misunderstood what I wrote and what my numbers indicate, which again is that a *major portion* of the temperature increase is attributable to increased atmospheric CO2, not "all" of it.

(to be continued)

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 10/28/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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(directly continuing from my previous post)

Here are those proportions using the 0.9C number:

1: Using the 0.50C number derived via relative radiative forcing:

0.5/0.9 = 56%

2: Using the >0.36C number derived via the simpler, back-of-th­e-envelope method:

>0.36/0.9 = >40%

goodspkr: "There is a problem there."

First off, what I did here was demonstrate directly via math and physics that fumes' assertion that the CO2 increase since the start of the fossil fuel era confers "no thermal advantage whatsoever" - which again you agreed with - is bullcrap.

That was the primary point of my going through that derivation, and that's why my calculations started back then.

goodspkr: "we were in a cool period from 1945 to 1975"

Only if you want to cherry-pick your data for that time interval. Pick instead, say, 1938-1980 and said "cooling period" goes away.

In any event that time period - when CO2 was a far smaller forcing agent - was overwhelmed by other factors, notably the increase in human particulate and aerosol pollution and unusually strong volcanic activity. Environmental regulations and improved technologies since the 1970s have significantly blunted the particulate and aerosol pollution influence, while CO2 emissions have instead risen dramatically.

(to be continued in next post)

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 10/28/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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(directly continuing from my previous post)

goodspkr: "Heavy use of CO2 started after WWII"

And in due time the dramatic rise in CO2 emissions overwhelmed global dimming due to particulate and aerosol pollution.

goodspkr: "and over the past 10 years we haven't seen any increases."

Wrong. Over the past 10 years the mean global temperature has still been increasing.

goodspkr: "Now I look for fit for a theory, and the AGW theory certainly should fit more than 38% of the time."

And it does.

goodspkr: "Lord Kelvin "proved" that the earth could not be as old as the geologists said. He "proved" it using the conservation of energy."

And, in a glaring mirror-reversal of what is the case today with respect to AGW, very few scientists back then regarded Lord Kelvin's "proof" as probable fact.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 10/28/2009
- goodspkr I'm a Fan of goodspkr 8 fans permalink

Publicola,

I have no problem with your mathematics. But I do have some problems with your assumptions and facts. I've already spoken about the 1.1 degrees C. The fact that you come up with .5 degrees C as coming from the addition of CO2 in the atmosphere is also not at issue. However, you quickly made a statement that the temperature would increase even more due to the feedback of water vapor.

That is the point of difference between the warmist and the skeptics. Warmist see the water vapor becoming high level cirrus clouds which would hold more heat on the earth. They see the feedback a large and positive. Skeptics see the water vapor creating more low level clouds which would reflect solar radiation away from the earth cooling the planet. We see the feedback as negative.

If the warmists are correct, you have a very unstable climate. If the skeptics are correct the climate is much more stable. Clouds are the unknown in the "settled science" of AGW believers. You can read about it here.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071102152636.htm

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 10/28/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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goodspkr: "The fact that you come up with .5 degrees C as coming from the addition of CO2 in the atmosphere is also not at issue. "

That's a radical departure from your previous statements saying that fumes was right re- his unsupported assertion that the 30% atmospheric CO2 increase since the dawn of the fossil fuel burning era confers "no thermal advantage whatsoever."

goodspkr: "However, you quickly made a statement that the temperature would increase even more due to the feedback of water vapor."

First off, whether the scientific consensus is correct there or not, you do now agree that the 30% increase in atmosphere CO2 confers a substantial thermal increase on the earth-atmosphere system, right?

goodspkr: "That is the point of difference between the warmist and the skeptics"

Well, no, that is not *the* "point of "difference" - that's but one of many "points of difference." For example there's the "point of difference" that fumes asserted - and that you had agreed with - that the 30% atmospheric CO2 increase since the dawn of the fossil fuel era confers "no thermal advantage whatsoever"

Another "point of difference" is that people such as yourself keep failing to understand (denying?) that water vapor is not a global warming greenhouse gas forcing agent.

Nice change of the subject away from your being completely wrong on both of those "points of contention" though, and now you are on to yet another "point of contention."

(continued in next post)

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 10/28/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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(continued from previous post)

goodspkr: "Clouds are the unknown in the "settled science" of AGW believers. You can read about it here. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071102152636.htm"

You need to understand what you cite. Per this citing *if* that negative feedback applies to global warming - and they make it clear that they don't know if it does - then that means that global warming happens at a lower rate of increase, not that global warming doesn't keep happening. In any event whether it applies to global warming is speculative.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 10/28/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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By the way goodspkr:

If you got lost with all that radiative forcing stuff - I didn't fully understand all that myself until I studied atmospheric physics in graduate school - there's a lay-person's short-cut of sorts that bypasses the RF stuff for those who understand logarithmic mathematics, which you present yourself as being able to do:

* As you say, it's essentially settled science that a doubling - that is, a 100% increase - of atmospheric CO2 confers a 1.2 C increase in the mean global temperature..

* Also as you say, atmospheric CO2's logarithmic relationship with that temperature means that you get progressively less impact per CO2 molecule added to the atmosphere.

* That second fact in turn means that a 30% increase in atmospheric CO2 will not result in 30% of a 100% increase in temperature - it will instead result in an increase *greater* than a 30%.of a 100% increase in temperature.

(The relationship drops off exponentially, so there's more bang for the buck in the first 30% increase than there is in the second 30% increase, and so on.)

* This means that a 30% increase in atmospheric CO2 confers a greater than (0.3*1.2C =) 0.36C increase in the mean global temperature.

Greater than 0.36C. (Which of course is in agreement with the 0.5C I had previously derived via relative radiative forcing.)

(continued in my next post, which may show up above this one)

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 10/27/2009
- MJinCanada I'm a Fan of MJinCanada 104 fans permalink

This is the one that I find mindboggling:

Stephen Moore: "So you can’t, heh, have it both ways. You can’t say cooling is going to hurt agriculture and warming is going to hurt agriculture."

Has this guy ever grown anything besides an ego?

I've seen a lot of crops start out well, then get hit by late frost or early frost (or even snow), dry up in the summer heat (the seeds stop growing and filling out), wither away in drought, get devoured by grasshoppers, which thrive in great numbers after mild winters because it takes a couple of weeks of really cold weather to kill the eggs.

And those were the "normal" years.

One of the features of climate change -- even natural changes 500 and 1000 years ago -- is periods of unpredictable and extreme weather. There is not only archeological evidence for this; there are chronicles written by monks and scribes recording the times when villages went from relative prosperity and surplus for decades to starvation 2 years out of three -- and selling their children into slavery when cold rainy summers or droughts carried on for longer.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 10/26/2009
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Skepticism has its place in everything. What gets me is the conspiracy theories that go along with Global Warming skepticism.

http://envirogy.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/a-convenient-conspiracy/

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 10/26/2009
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 149 fans permalink

Global warming deniers are anything but skeptical. They deny any article on warming before even reading it. They are ideologues!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 10/26/2009
- goodspkr I'm a Fan of goodspkr 8 fans permalink

RP, I find you calling skeptics ideologues to be humorous. I do read what the warmists talk about so I can understand where they are coming from and understand the actual science behind AGW. I doubt that you do the same.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 10/26/2009
- fumes I'm a Fan of fumes 76 fans permalink
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Now, the total percent of our atmosphere that is CO2 is currently 0.035%. And so, we both agree that 0.035% CO2 considerable thermal advantage - right? About 91F, even.

So how is it that, in your mind, 0.035% CO2 can have a 91F thermal impact here on earth, while about a third of that amount - 0.012% CO2 - can have "no thermal advantage whatsoever"?

Do tell, fumes - because again inquiring minds want to know.

''Note that the Greenhouse Effect produces a temperature increase of about 33 °C (59 °F) with respect to black body predictions and not a surface temperature of 33 °C (91 °F) which is 32 °F higher. The average surface temperature is about 14 °C (57 °F). Also note that both the Celsius and Fahrenheit temperatures are expressed to 2 significant figures even though the conversion formula produces 3.'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 10/26/2009
- DocSkull I'm a Fan of DocSkull 17 fans permalink

I can't figure out what you are asking and I don't see in the wikipedia page where it establishes that a third of the CO2 levels has no "thermal advantage" as you put it. The relationship between CO2 and temperature is not linear and the focus is on human-produced CO2 rather than the naturally produced CO2, if that is what you are getting at.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 10/26/2009
- fumes I'm a Fan of fumes 76 fans permalink
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sorry doc i screwed up again..

the top half of that post is a repost of publicola to me from downthread that i should have presented as such.. my bad!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 10/26/2009
- Publicola I'm a Fan of Publicola 16 fans permalink
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fumes: ''Note that the Greenhouse Effect produces a temperature increase of about 33 °C (59 °F) with respect to black body predictions and not a surface temperature of 33 °C (91 °F) which is 32 °F higher."

LOL.

Dude. That's what you get for citing WIKIPEDIA for a conversion instead of doing a math calculation for yourself. Here, let me walk through the math:

The equation to convert from degrees Celsius to degrees Fahrenheit is:

F = (C*9)/5 + 32

So 33 Celsius in Fahrenheit is:

F = (33*9)/5 + 32 = 91.4

91.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

Got that straight now, fumes?

Now, back to you contradicting yourself:

In the "Obama MIT Green Speech..." thread you state:

"CO2's RESISTANCE to outgoing infrared AND the sun's daily replenishment of high frequency radiation do keep us about 33F warmer than we would otherwise be."

Again you got the number wrong - again the difference that atmospheric CO2 makes is not ~33F but in fact ~91F - but there you at least acknowledge the scientific FACT that atmospheric CO2 is a very significant greenhouse gas.

Now, our atmosphere that is CO2 is 0.038%. And we both agree that that 0.038% CO2 provides a "considerable thermal advantage" - right? About 91F, even.

So how is it that, in your mind, that 0.038% CO2 can have a 91F thermal impact while about a third of that amount - 0.012% CO2 - can have "no thermal advantage whatsoever"?

Do tell, fumes.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 10/26/2009
- goodspkr I'm a Fan of goodspkr 8 fans permalink

Publicola,

You need to read up a bit more. While it is true the heating affect of greenhouse gases is 91 degree F, CO2 contributes minutely to that number.

The biggest greenhouse gas in percent and effect is water vapor accounting from from 68% to 95% (roughly 61 degrees to 85 degrees). CO2 as it goes from the beginning of the industrial age at 280ppm up to toward the end of the 21st Century when it doubles to 560 ppm will account for a 1.2 degree C increase in temperature (2 degrees F).

So attributing all the 91 degrees to CO2 shows you aren't really up on the science you are trying to speak for.

The real issue is the feedback so I would side with fumes versus what you have said here.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 PM on 10/26/2009
- fumes I'm a Fan of fumes 76 fans permalink
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publicola says: ''And so, we both agree that 0.035% CO2 considerable thermal advantage - right? About 91F, even.''

NO!!! lol.. 4 the umpteenth time there pub..

water vapor does most of the work.. that 91F.. that's water vapor's doing. CO2 only gets an assist on that play. water vapor doesn't need no stinkin' CO2 at equatorial climes but it does elsewhere in order to bring the global average temp up. once in the a'sphere it's the water vapor doing the heavy lifting. and again that lovely empirical model i keep trotting out, those cold clear nights, are proof that CO2 can't lift shitt.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 10/26/2009
- MJinCanada I'm a Fan of MJinCanada 104 fans permalink

Here's a few questions for climate change deniers:

1) If you think climate change is a hoax, please provide a logical explanation why tens of thousands of scientists -- climatologists, geologists, biologists, oceanographers, physicists, archaeologists, forensic anthropologists, and so on -- support the climate change theory and have spent years collecting data. What's in it for them?

2) Do any of you deniers work outdoors for a living and/or depend on good old Mother Earth for your livelihood? That is, do any of you work in the field in the farming, forestry, fishing, tourism or even construction industries? Are any of you hikers or hunters or any sort of outdoorsy people at all? Have you ever eaten food that you grew yourselves?

I've asked these questions before on climate change stories and haven't gotten an answer yet.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 AM on 10/26/2009
- goodspkr I'm a Fan of goodspkr 8 fans permalink

I'll answer question 1. "What's in it for them?" Funding. Billions of dollars are readily available to scientist who study AGW and it's effects. If it is determined that there is no A in AGW, the money tree drys up.

I'm not sure what question 2 is all about? What difference does it make if you have eaten food that you grew yourselves?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 10/26/2009
- DocSkull I'm a Fan of DocSkull 17 fans permalink

Billions!?! Really? Billions?!?

Could you give an example of a small fraction of the billion dollars? Can you show me a picture of a scientist's mansion and sports car?

Who pays the scientists all these billions of dollars?

I think you have a lot of nerve casting empty accusations at extremely well-educated people who work long hours for only moderate money.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 10/26/2009
- MJinCanada I'm a Fan of MJinCanada 104 fans permalink

Billions of bucks? Seriously? Who's paying them?

How much of it do you think these guys take home? Enough to make it worthwhile to freeze your butt off on a glacier for six months, or leaving your young family for a whole summer to study rock sediment layers?

Re second question: People who work or play closely with the land are seldom climate change deniers. It's like trying to find a WWII vet who doubts the Holocaust. It's a matter of witnessing changes in real life.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 PM on 10/26/2009
- MJinCanada I'm a Fan of MJinCanada 104 fans permalink

Here's a few questions for climate change deniers:

1) If you think climate change is a hoax, please provide a logical explanation why tens of thousands of scientists -- climatologists, geologists, biologists, oceanographers, physicists, archaeologists, forensic anthropologists, and so on -- support the climate change theory. What's in it for them? Really?

2) Do any of you deniers work outdoors for a living and/or depend on good old Mother Earth for your livelihood? That is, do any of you work in the field in the farming, forestry, fishing, tourism or even construction industries? Are any of you hikers or hunters or any sort of outdoorsy people at all? Have you ever eaten food that you grew yourselves?

I've asked these questions before on climate change stories and haven't gotten an answer yet.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 AM on 10/26/2009
- Richard2 I'm a Fan of Richard2 12 fans permalink

For elected officials in the United States, the most dangerous Global Warming deniers are the SIXTY-FOUR percent of the American public that doesn't think man-made global warming is real.

For those officials mindlessly marching in the Global Warming parade, it is time to slip back into the crowd.

The little children are pointing at saying, "the emperor has no clothes!"

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 10/26/2009
- DocSkull I'm a Fan of DocSkull 17 fans permalink

You deniers have trouble with even the most basic facts. The article at the top of this thread establishes that 57-percent of polled people said they recognize AGW. That means you can at best claim 43-percent, but it'll be less because of the large number of people who are unsure.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 10/26/2009
photo

That 43% figure is up from 23% in 3 years. Don't think that represents a significant increase in sceptism?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 10/26/2009

These people are not dangerous, they are STUPID.

It's time we started calling deniers what they are. Dumb. Ignorant. Stupid. I'm sick to death of them and they need to be marginalized and told to shut up. It's simple. Keep calling them stupid and then ignore them, and eventually they will go away.

Don't DEBATE them, for pete's sake! That gives them credibility. They need to be ignored.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 AM on 10/26/2009
- DocSkull I'm a Fan of DocSkull 17 fans permalink

I disagree, AGW had the strongest support when everyone was talking about it. It has slipped in recent years because Americans have to deal with the fallout from the Bush administration.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 10/26/2009
- Richard2 I'm a Fan of Richard2 12 fans permalink

So 64% of the American people don't think man-made global warming is not real. How do you ignore 64% of the population?

It is time for a serious reexamination about how much government is spending on Global Warming nonsense. Legitimate, objective research is fine. After that, tighten the budget.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 10/26/2009
- DocSkull I'm a Fan of DocSkull 17 fans permalink

One can ignore the 64-percent because they don't exist. How much does the government spend on global warming? Very little.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 10/26/2009
- noneIn2008 I'm a Fan of noneIn2008 27 fans permalink

How about links to a few of the hundreds of scientist and climatologists who are skeptical?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 PM on 10/25/2009
- DocSkull I'm a Fan of DocSkull 17 fans permalink

I followed your link and didn't find a few hundred scientists. What was I supposed to see?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 10/25/2009
- noneIn2008 I'm a Fan of noneIn2008 27 fans permalink

I was not clear. This was a example link to one source on the ongoing dialogue of skeptics. There is strong skeptical discussion out there, as there should be in true science. There are many scientists who are becoming actively skeptical. This was just one example of a very good discussion source.

If you desire specific names of over 31,000 scientists that do not agree with AGW:
http://www.heartland.org/publications/NIPCC%20report/PDFs/Appendix%204.4.pdf

If you want more web sites for the science discussion you can start with a very good summary at: http://www.nipccreport.org/index.html

Other web sites include:
http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/MyStory.htm
http://junkscience.com/
http://www.climateaudit.org/
http://www.lavoisier.com.au/index.php
Our own US Senate: http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=e9c005dc-802a-23ad-45cb-a5e7966aac86

I would be delighted to provide many more if you want to see hundreds.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 AM on 10/26/2009
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