Mark Fisher On Morning Meeting: Taxpayers Need To Get "Their Pound Of Flesh" From Bailout Banks

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First Posted: 10-26-09 01:18 PM   |   Updated: 10-26-09 01:47 PM

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On today's Morning Meeting, Dylan Ratigan took on the issue of bailouts for the few banks anointed as "too big to fail" with Mark Fisher, founder of MBF Asset Management LLC and author of a recent op-ed for Bloomberg entitled "How the U.S. Blew Trillion-Dollar Trade of Century." That article formed the jump-off for a discussion on the lack of return on investment for the taxpayers, who shoveled their wealth into the hole Wall Street dug for itself:

RATIGAN: Mark, now, you write in here, what trader in his right mind decides to dump his money into a glorfied black hole -- and you are basically talking from the perspective of the U.S. government last fall -- taking on unlimited risk in the process for miniscule returns? The argument the government would make is, "Listen, we had no choice but to dump our money into a glorified black hole, take on unlimited risk in the process for miniscule returns because we didn't have any sort of resolution. We did not have any other alternative." Do you buy the we-had-no-choice argument for this incredible delivery of money?


FISHER: I buy the argument that the government had no choice but to do what it did. And it's very easy for you and I to sit here today and say, "Why'd you do that?" But having done that, somebody should have had the presence of mind to say, okay, if we going to go ahead and bail out the banks, if we are going to go ahead and prevent the domino theory --

RATIGAN: And the cascade of collapse from top to bottom, last fall--

FISHER: We need to get our pound of flesh.

RATIGAN: We being the government and the taxpayer stepping in with taxpayer money.

FISHER: The taxpayer, yes.

RATIGAN: How does the taxpayer get their pound of flesh, because I think where you see the protest mark in Chicago or you talk to people on the street, rich people or poor people, white people and black people, we all know what has happened has been unfair.

FISHER: Well, I think it is unfair because they didn't get their pound of flesh. If when this bailout took place, if the government would have said, okay, we now own 30% of the profits of every single firm we are helping out, I don't think you would see the riots in the streets.

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All of this calls to mind a blistering article penned by Mark Pittman in Bloomberg back in January:

Henry Paulson's bank bailouts, done under "great stress" during the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, failed to win for U.S. taxpayers what Warren Buffett received for his shareholders by investing in Goldman Sachs Group Inc.


The Treasury secretary made 174 purchases of banks' preferred shares that include warrants to buy stock at a later date. While he invested $10 billion in Goldman Sachs in October, twice as much as Buffett did the month before, Paulson gained certificates worth one-fourth as much as the billionaire, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The Goldman Sachs terms were repeated in most of the other bank bailouts.

[...]

"If Paulson was still an employee of Goldman Sachs and he'd done this deal, he would have been fired," (said Joseph Stiglitz, a Columbia University professor who won the Nobel Prize for Economics in 2001).

[...]

Buffett received 43.5 million Goldman Sachs warrants valued at $82.18 apiece on the date of the transaction, or $3.6 billion, Bloomberg analytics show. Paulson, who served as the New York-based bank's chief executive officer until 2006, injected twice as much taxpayer money into Goldman Sachs a month later and got 12.2 million warrants worth $72.33 each, or $882 million.

Paulson picked his winner, and it wasn't us.

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On today's Morning Meeting, Dylan Ratigan took on the issue of bailouts for the few banks anointed as "too big to fail" with Mark Fisher, founder of MBF Asset Management LLC and author of a recent op-...
On today's Morning Meeting, Dylan Ratigan took on the issue of bailouts for the few banks anointed as "too big to fail" with Mark Fisher, founder of MBF Asset Management LLC and author of a recent op-...
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Campaign finance reform is our only hope.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 10/27/2009
- Mycall I'm a Fan of Mycall 2 fans permalink

The reason for this meltdown in the first place was granting loans to individuals that did not have the means to pay them back. Sub-prime loans/ mortgages sold with an above average credit rating to other investors. In a shrinking economy there are even fewer people that would meet those credit requirements, than there even should have been at the best of times, pre-meltdown. Trading with the money in my view was one of very few revenue generating prospects. The bigger issue here IS that one of the stipulations should simply have been that every quarter the government is paid a certain amount back including interest. If the banks were able to make more than that, so be it – keep it, pay your bonuses with what remains. But the American people deserved to get their money in advance of the Execs being awarded bonuses.. But bad loans would merely be a replication of the problem.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 10/27/2009
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And this orchestrated heist is not illegal??
Oh right, I forgot... that would require our government to hold itself accountable.
I lost my senses there for a moment.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 10/27/2009
- Lane4411 I'm a Fan of Lane4411 4 fans permalink

Taxpayer should receive same structure as Buffett. Renegotiate the transaction with same structure that Buffett received for all banks.

Taxpayer has been had-NO DOUBT

Consider a windfall profits tax!!!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:24 AM on 10/27/2009
- nopilikia I'm a Fan of nopilikia 8 fans permalink

Forget the pound of flesh. I'd settle for a 6% interest rate, with a paid in full date the end of 2014. Then we could "waste those billions" on unimportant things like health care for all Americans and creating jobs for Americans. We could be doing that now, but there were more important things to spend the billions on like bailouts for AIG and Wall St.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 10/26/2009

where are the unemployment benefits we need?

he right: http://finnanceopinionss.blogspot.com

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 10/26/2009
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Goldman Sachs yet again at the core of the corruption, Paulson made sure that Goldman would come out of it the richest bank robbers to date! Why are Wall Street guys allowed to serve as Treasury Secretary?

Would we ever have allowed Gotti to run the FBI? Of course not, the only differece between the two, is Gotti didin't have the power to write laws and Goldman Sachs has Congress, HA!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:47 PM on 10/26/2009
- booki I'm a Fan of booki 5 fans permalink

thank you......D­AHHHHHHHHH­HHH
it is pure common sense


when you give it away, one expects something in return, a piece of the action!

who let us down, why did we give our hard earned tax money away...to save what caused us to become deseased?
we never tried to cure ..........­.....just took a sigh of relief.
now we are facing a worse future.

hello TG , LS,BB.....­.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 PM on 10/26/2009

Right on.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 10/26/2009

liars, crooks & thieves are in charge of the government. elected politicians sold this country down the river & now the river is running dry. next up total collapse of the dollar & a deep depression.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:34 PM on 10/26/2009
- oldgeek1 I'm a Fan of oldgeek1 34 fans permalink

The money and banking system was on the verge of total collapse.
The bail out put a halt to the panic. Was it a perfect solution NO but then again nobody had ever seen anything like this.
Now the easy shots are being taken about how bad the move was.
Where were all these brilliant minds when credit was being handed out like candy and people never considered buying houses they could not afford or the risk.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 PM on 10/26/2009
- vlm1948 I'm a Fan of vlm1948 6 fans permalink

They were being ignored by Bush's and then Obama's teams. Warren Buffett gave some of them money but he got stocks in return and those hot shots in charge should have asked for the same thing.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 10/26/2009
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The banks created that situation on purpose. And they knew they would be bailed out.

You need to see Michael Moore's new movie.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 10/26/2009
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Yep banks, hedge funds, Wall Street all CROOKS! With the start of the first Wall Street Treasury Secretary under Reagan....­once they figured out, "HA! We have the White House and Control Congress in our control, we can make all of our theft legal, we will write the laws!"

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 10/26/2009
- sabredance I'm a Fan of sabredance 21 fans permalink

Sorry but the general public got the idea -- correctly -- that TARP was a no-strings-attached bailout. And the general public was right. Imposing reasonable terms on TARP was a no brainer. However, Paulson et al had other interests (GS, eg) in mind...

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:52 PM on 10/27/2009
- elkabong I'm a Fan of elkabong 159 fans permalink
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No pound of flesh necessary. Just give us our money back with interest or be evicted from their homes. Seems fair to me.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 PM on 10/26/2009
- RadCenter I'm a Fan of RadCenter 27 fans permalink

I have a problem with the basic premise here. Is it really fair to compare the taxpayer's investment in Goldman Sachs to Warren Buffet's? Our investment was not intended for profit but to prevent further meltdown and to supply capital that could be lent to consumers and businesses. The more profit we, the public, syphon off from this deal, the less money will be available for lending, thus defeating the purpose of the bailout. Am I the only one who is thinking this?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 10/26/2009
- Eykis I'm a Fan of Eykis 321 fans permalink

It is fair, but not realistic. They have already proven that.

The bankers and wall street bankers who have been bailed out need to pay caps and no bonuses and no buddies on their boards.

I could care less if their BIG PAYDAY is the bonuses -- change the pay structure -- pay them a salary and if after a certain amount of time goes by and proves their decisions to be the correct decisions and not cause the wreakage of the WORLD ECONOMY, toss a Christmas bonus of one month's salary or something at them.

Why should they get any more than other workers in America? They produce nothing but have the power to RUIN THE WORLD.

No one working in private industry that is on the public stock market who does NOT OWN the company is worth more than a million dollars a year and that includes movie stars.

The outrageous salaries lead to a lot of rigged deals that WREAKED HAVOC.

Free enterprise is NOT FREE if the taxpayers are paying the bills and getting kicked in the teeth the whole time by Big Business.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 10/26/2009
- vlm1948 I'm a Fan of vlm1948 6 fans permalink

Except that they never used any of it for lending anyways. The money the Government got back could have been used to help main street. As it is, only the banks got any benefit and the rest of us got the shaft.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 10/26/2009
- NHGranite I'm a Fan of NHGranite 55 fans permalink
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Lending? Is that how they are making their money? Only on usurious credit cards maybe. If they were doing what they said they would do with the money, there would be loans. Things are so topsy turvy that the too big to fail got bigger than ever, and paid themselves bonuses for the privilege of scamming us.

PS Dylan Ratigan should be on in the evening on MSNBC, where more people can hear him on his soapbox. He makes great points, can explain complex financial deals, and pins down the obfuscators who never answer the damn question!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 AM on 10/27/2009

When the auto bail out came about, there was hard pressure on the auto workers to make wage and benefit concessions. Much of it driven by the re.pub.s. Yet, when it came to the financial class, some of the same re.pub.s fought against any type of pay and benefit cuts to the management of the financial institutions.

This was a terrible deal, or, more appropriately, a gift to the financial class from us, the taxpayers.

It is time to break up the large interstate banks and make them community oriented like they should be.

It is time to break up the large investment firms that are causing havoc with the economy before they drive the economy into the abyss.

It is time to regulate how business does business to protect the middle class of this country before they destroy us.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 10/26/2009
- Eykis I'm a Fan of Eykis 321 fans permalink

Good post, Sir. Fanned.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 10/26/2009
- evie I'm a Fan of evie 8 fans permalink
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Exactly Sir- I don't recall anyone screaming about the auto industry losing its 'best and brightest' to competitors. I want to know who the 'best and brightest' are that the investment firms are and why they are deemed irreplacable. We have schools turning out graduate students every year; why aren't they being hired to replace those earning the millions plus annually? Is there any way to know who the best & brightest are really? Who they are related to? Who they owe for their jobs?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 10/26/2009
- vlm1948 I'm a Fan of vlm1948 6 fans permalink

They couldn't have been too darned bright or they wouldn't have had to come to the taxpayer hat in hand begging for money.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:49 PM on 10/26/2009
- Grada3784 I'm a Fan of Grada3784 8 fans permalink

Yeah a pound of flesh will do for the bankers.

Now for oil traders, I'd suggested they be stuffed and mounted like one of Norman Bates's birds.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 10/26/2009
- Eykis I'm a Fan of Eykis 321 fans permalink

That should be completely revamped as well. Fanned.

Get rid of the Enron loophole and speculating.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:09 PM on 10/26/2009
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