Trial Of Francis Evrard, French Pedophile, Fuels Castration Debate

Reuters:

DOUAI, France (Reuters) - A Frenchman with multiple pedophilia convictions went on trial on Monday over the kidnap and rape of a 5-year-old boy, a case that has prompted some in government to consider castration for repeat sex offenders.

Read the whole story: Reuters

Comments

[hidenout]

Hmmm....prior to this crime, "multiple pedophilia convictions".

Hey France, ever heard of "Life without Parole"? You would have saved his victim a lot of heartache.

[World Citizen]

Don't you see? France is where Polanski hid for the last 32 years.

[World Citizen]

I once asked a doctor here in France if chemical castration works after a pedophile admitted to me that he abused a 9 year old. The answer from this doctor is that it does not work.

[hidenout]

Should have seen all the people here defending Polanski the first few days of that story, then when it became clear to them drugging and raping people, especially children, is wrong, (and their viewpoint was in the minority) a handful switched sides, to their credit.

Look, life without parole should be saved for the worst of the worst. How could anyone, twice (or more) convicted of a sex crime against children, ever see the light of day again?

I just don't understand. The thought of either of my 10 year old twins being drugged and raped by someone is impossible to grasp.

[World Citizen]

I read the Evrard was release during a 'vacance judiciare' (competent judge was on vacation). Yes, here in france, justice takes at least 2 months vacation (august, september). I always thought that this was strange since criminals hardly take this same vacation.

[punkindmb]

Why not give him his wish and castrate him, THEN send him to jail for life. Seems fair to me. He gets what he wants and society gets what they want.

[peacechants]

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, there are 686,515 registered sex offenders in the US and its territories. If that is the total of convicted offenders, there must be thousands more out there, indicating a serious and ongoing societal problem. What are the mechanisms in our culture that produce so many dysfunctional and abusive individuals? Abuse occurs by parents/family members, clergy, coaches, teachers/mentors across all strata of society. There are both male and female offenders.
People should study this problem more conscientiously and try to be part of the solution before simply lashing out in angry advocacy of barbaric solutions. Beyond the proposals favoring castration, incarcerated offenders are frequently the victims of violence within the system, a fact widely celebrated as street justice in many quarters of society. The sheer numbers of offenders and victims denoted by the statistics should tell us that this is a cycle that must be broken. We must find ways to make people whole again, and to heal the victims. I think the mental health researchers who have pronounced this sickness as incurable have abdicated responsibility and failed in their fundamental mission. The research needs to perservere till cures are found, even if decades and billions are required to do so.

[kesmarn]

When the little 7 year old girl in Florida was abducted recently as she was on her way home from school, police had to interview 165 registered sex offenders who lived within a 5 mile radius of her home. 165! That is tragic. And the perpetrator was not among them--so obviously, there is a 166th out there, either in that radius or beyond. Heartbreaking for children to have to have such a high level of vigilance.

[KIVPossum]

Trouble with our sex offender registries is they often do not separate real offenders from harmless people. A lot of men are on it for having sex with a 15 year old when they were 19, or arrested for indecent exposure peeing in a park at night. We are too quick to label some crimes as sex offenses. Better to divide the rapists and pedophiles into a group different from flashers and naked drunks.

[Naville]

I would not even worry about it if they cut their genitals, so they do not harm or use it to desecrate or mutilate an innocent defenseless child.

[ILuvBubbles]

I live in Florida, we have had numerous child molesting cases where the perp was a female teacher who engages in sex with minor students. Many of the cases ended in house arrest or similar. I sense a double standard here in the U.S.

[loutreverte]

I find it unconscionable that a physical mutilation is even being suggested as a viable legal punishment in the E.U. If a criminal (or any man) wishes to be voluntarily castrated, then such is their right as an adult to control their own body, but for the state to engage in any type of corporeal punishment is simply barbarous.

[Saddler1]

This would be debatable if it were only about the ethics of maiming a convict. Unfortunately, there's no evidence that castration would stop pedophiles from abusing children. It might, but it might not, and it's not worth risking children to find out. If he wants to be castrated so bad, he can seek the surgery. This guy is never getting out of prison either way.

Jail is still the best solution we've come up with, and keeping them away from temptation once they serve out their term. Mandatory, lifelong counseling for pedophiles is a more practical experiment to try.

[TXfemmom]

Chemical or physical castration is not going to work against pedophiles or other sexual predators. Their desire are in their psyche, not in their testacles. Society, here and in France needs to face that and they need to keep these individuals in prison for the rest of their lives.

I have never met a legitimate medical professional who thinks that they can be rehabilitated or controlled through castration.

[kesmarn]

I agree.Prison for life is definitely the preferred option. For some reason, though, after decades of debate, society seems to be unwilling to do this. I agree, too, that pedophiles will likely not be completely rehabilitated though castration, but when they are requesting it, as this man is, I think we need to be open minded enough to at least talk about it. If the criminal feels that this might be helpful, is it possible he may have a point?

[kesmarn]

I agree. Lifelong prison is the best option. For whatever reason, though, society has just not seen fit to go there. It's a tragedy.

[Tiger99]

All people have to do is locate some hormones to reverse any effects the castration may have... He has stated he can't control the impulses so just keep him and others like him locked up...

[MissusJones]

Yes, a prison cell would work quite nicely.

[praxitas]

i think locked up is a bad idea. waste of money, the populations will just grow, etc. i think the castration idea is actually more humane, but this is not genital castration but at the brain. the sexual urge needs to be removed. by physical or chemical surgery, assuming of course science is capable of this. if there is some collateral loss in cognitive function provided it is not excessive is still ok by me.

[DemiCrat]

It seems to me that any rational human being would be completely comfortable "wasting" taxpayer's money to keep serial rapists behind bars. While some prisons experience overcrowding, rapists and murderers are not the ones that should be up for early release or alternative rehabilitation methods. If you would take the time to understand the debate, you would realize the human rights implications behind any form of castration. Nevertheless, even if castration was decided to be humane and this man consented to it to lessen his sentence, it would likely not cure or treat this man's obvious psychological problems. Castration may help deter certain 'impulses', but it will do nothing to treat any psychotic or sociopathic tendencies. This guy got his second chance and a 5 year old boy paid the price. I'm am certainly content seeing this man in jail for the remainder of his disturbed life.

[seattle music]

The problem is, innocent men are convicted from time to time.

Spending a few years in jail for a crime you didn't commit (say, between ages 25 and 35) would be a nightmare scenario for the innocent.

However, being irreversibly rid of his sexuality would be cruel and unusual punishment.

People can lead productive, even spiritually uplifting time in prison (think Nelson Mandela), even if they are wrongly convicted. But what possible compensation could we give a man who had part of his brain removed -- the part that makes him a sexual being?

[cliffhammond]

It's as much about control over the victim as sex; perhaps even more. We've already had this debate in the U.S. several years ago -- about 15-years ago in fact.

[kesmarn]

I wonder if we need to take a second look at the way we regard castration. It's referred to as "maiming" and "mutilation" when it applies to males, and yet women undergo hysterectomies every day, all around the world as well as mastectomies for a variety of reasons and this is accepted as "normal." Women are expected to go on with their lives as balanced and functional individuals and not to feel "maimed" or "mutilated." Castration might be viewed as therapeutic for this mental disorder in the same way that a bilateral mastectomy is accepted as treatment for some types of cancer. It doesn't have to turn into a pity party.

I realize this might be considered "edgy," but it's worth some discussion.

[DemiCrat]

You are clearly missing the point. Women rarely undergo voluntary hysterectomies, and never one's that are mandated by the court. This comment isn't so much "edgy" as it is unintelligent.

[kesmarn]

This guy requested castration, though. And I've heard of other pedophiles who have done the same. I'm not pushing for anything, just saying the conversation should be opened up.

Like many commenters here, I think the approach that protects the public most effectively is life-long imprisonment. But society has yet to adopt that approach.

[Dnietz]

it is already done. the removal of the prostrate or testicles happen all the time in an effort to fight against certain illnesses.

[seattle music]

A woman who has had a hysterectomy or a double mastectomy can still have sexual intercourse and orgasm.

Also, I am unaware of any court directing the state to remove a woman's uterus, ovaries or breasts.

It really is something of a higher order of magnituted to allow the courts to denude a human being of their sexuality. This is exactly the situation where the Constitution prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment", in my opinion.

[kesmarn]

I should have clarified. I'm not advocating court-ordered castration. I'm saying that when offenders request it, we should take those requests a bit more seriously, since society seems to be resistant to locking repeat offenders up permanently. I've known of women who had prophylactic bilateral mastectomies because of a strong family history of breast cancer. They were not refused the surgery because they requested it, even though there was no cancer at the time of the surgery. Women are "castrated" when their ovaries are removed--to put it bluntly--and, as you noted, it doesn't necessarily ruin their lives .People just aren't used to thinking of these as parallel procedures, but medically speaking, they are. I realize there are different motives for the different types of surgeries, but elective surgery is just that. And these offenders would like to have this elective surgery. Can we at least be open to talking about it?

[kesmarn]

Since my earlier reply never made it, I'll just say I am not in favor of court mandated surgery for these people. Wish I could expand, but apparently that's not possible at this point.

[AudreyH]

This is the problem with many countries, including the US, we need to keep these ppl in prison. No chances after the first offenses (because most did it more than once before getting caught).
I go to grad school for psychology and I can tell you mental disorders which involve pedophilia are some of the most incurable disorders. Most offenders of sex crimes against children and women offend again and again and again even after prison time. Especially in places like the US less money needs to be spent on keeping drug offenders, who can very well be rehabilitated not all the time but more than sex offenders, behind bars and more on sex offenders.

[AudreyH]

This is the problem with many countries, including the US, we need to keep these ppl in prison. NO CHANCES after the first offenses (because most did it more than once before getting caught).
I go to grad school for psychology and I can tell you mental disorders which involve pedophilia are some of the MOST incurable disorders. Most offenders of sex crimes against children and women offend again and again and again even after prison time. Especially in places like the US less money needs to be spent on keeping drug offenders, who can very well be rehabilitated not all the time but more than sex offenders, behind bars and more on sex offenders.

[hanoum]

Interesting. Could you shed some light on why some become (or are they since birth) sex offenders, pedophiles?

[AudreyH]

They become sexually deviant because of mainly sociological reasons. It is not usually a birth thing, although rarely it is. It is often because of shame and sexual repression brought on by the mother. For instance, there are some killers who will kill for the sake of a fetish that they repressed and are ashamed of--like a foot fetish--so they can do what they want with them without any apologies. It is not only the mother. Often, those who sexually abuse are abused themselves by a male relative. However, which I learned while taking a sex therapy class last year, the most extreme case often have a paraphilia or extreme unusual and deviant sexual liking for something which drives them to kill. It is chilling, often untreatable, and very very scary to really get to understand how the mind of some of these people works.

[blaharumph]

very true. theoretically... they need to stay in jail. even after castration they will commit the same act yet use a surrogate item. it's mostly about control and the act is just a means of providing that control.

[AudreyH]

they become pedophiles because of mainly sociological reasons. It is not usually a birth thing, although rarely it is. It is often because of shame and sexual repression brought on by the mother. For instance, there are some killers who will kill for the sake of a fetish that they repressed and are ashamed of--like a foot fetish--so they can do what they want with them without any apologies.

It is not only the mother. Often, those who sexually abuse are abused themselves by a male relative. However, which I learned while taking a sex therapy class last year, the most extreme case often have a paraphilia or extreme unusual and deviant sexual liking for something which drives them to kill. It is chilling, often untreatable, and very very scary to really get to understand how the mind of some of these people works.

[iScan]

What's the point...Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but if you castrate *after* puberty can't the man still get an erection? Therefore making the manipulation pointless, since the problem is in the brain and not in the *tool* used to perpetrate the offense, a tool that is still mostly functional after said manipulation? I don't get it. It all seems so...archaic.

[ricmarc]

you are absolutely totally correct. even with castration before puberty a eunuch can get and maintain an erection. the men they used for harems had their entire sexual organs removed.

one would think those in europe would know this as they were doing it until late in the 19th century.

[camanokat]

My concern is that, in a jury trial, the perp might be given more sympathy if the jurors knew that castration was an option. It's bad enough to make a mistake, but a mistake that could change the defendant's life that much could prevent some convictions.

[iScan]

Exactly. Then the trial becomes about the conviction...and not whether or not its even effective.

[praxitas]

it woul be castration versus life imprisonment. i think many will conclude that if the latter is effective it is a better option for society. in any case much of europe uses trial by judge.

[marcain]

Castration in this way means the testicles are removed not the p enis to remove testosterone. However, the compulsion may continue nevertheless. If they're going to chop things off, I'd prefer it be the guillotine on his neck. The death penalty should be used on child rapists in extreme cases and life in prison in other cases.

[Dnietz]

ding ding ding !!!!

we have a winner. finally someone i agree with

many other countries, including some whose cultures we make fun of, have already solved this problem. their rule is:

you rape a child = you die

there is never any excuse ever for the behavior of child rape. no explanation can soften the crime. nothing said on behalf of the perpetrator can bring liniency. just give them capital punishment and be done with it.

this should be easier to do than murder 1. you either did penetrate a child or you didn't. intent on your part or the child is irrelevant. no need for 10 years of appeals.

[OxamsRazor]

castration has proven ineffective in stopping sexual assaults. yes, they might -might- stop some kinds of assaults. but the desire to subject a child to humiliation and violence are still there.

what we need are intensive, personal therapy of these individuals followed by an understanding that some people might be beyond rehabilitation and might require lifetime institutio­nalization­.

we need to get beyond looking at pedophilia as sexually driven. this is not a sexuality but a sickness.

[bestealth]

Pedophilia is a sickness. But to say it's not sexually driven is like saying rape is not sexually driven. If your aim is to debase, attack, or dominate someone just pop 'em upside the head. But raping someone is about sex. Using sex, sexual stimulation of the offender, sex as a weapon. Castrating doesn't remove the desire for men to use sex as a way to hurt women and children. There are hundreds of men raping women and children across this planet as we speak.

[Yves Papa]

Actually rape is not sexually driven. It's driven by an impulse, a desire, or a means of domination, of hurting someone, of having control. There is nothing sexual about that, even if sex is the tool.

[OxamsRazor]

I'm sorry, but many kinds of rape aren't sexually driven. They have proven this time and time again. To call rape "sexual" is the first mistake we make. It has nothing to do with sexuality or sex or anything. It is a physical assault.

And I remember reading -and in fairness this was years ago so I am interested to see if it is true- that even after castration some men still commit sexual assaults.