Hamas Bans Elections In Gaza Strip

AFP:

GAZA CITY : The Hamas-run interior ministry in the Gaza Strip said on Wednesday that it will ban the organisation of elections called for by Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas in the coastal territory.

Read the whole story: AFP

Comments

[S1m0n]

Abbas has a nerve, calling for a new election when he has yet to acknowledge the winners of the last one.

[MarcusT]

Mommamia: "Palestinians do not exist. They are Arabs"

It has taken Israelis many years to realize that there is no basis to the assertion made by Prime Minister Golda Meir soon after the 1967 Six Day War that “there is no such thing as a Palestinian people”. And only a handful of die hard racists persist.

[mommamia526]

Well. Marcus, my remark was not about race, it was about reality and to get people's juices flowing. Let me see now. Hamas forbids elections. Abbas is not allowed to call out elections. There is no Palestininian government. Is there a constitution, anything to get started with? Mr. Obama set the tone to reignite negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians., but Abbas, who should already have been out of Office, has stated that his conditions must all be met in full, before any negotiations. If that will be the one and only obligation, there will not be any negotiations needed. Abbas has declared the outcome a priori. Hamas, in addition to forbidding Abbas to call out an election, has also stated that they will NOT negotiate with Israel under any circumstances, that there will be NO PEACE and there will be war. Abbas and Hamas are at odds. So, little ol' granny, sitting here, asks herself what is that whole charade all about? Clearly, the Palestinians do not want Peace, as they state so, they do not want negotiation, they say so. Be it in different formats, both Abbas and Hamas say it. Netanyahu has suggested an economic development plan. Appears rational to me. Demanding that Israel hand over some more territory after the Gaza experience, which is ongoing, and while kassams are being shot out of Gaza and Katyushas out of Lebanon (five this year so far), appears a little highhanded and dictatorial.

[mommamia526]

In short, whatever *race* or *ethnicity* Palestinians are, or are not, there are no partners for Israel to negotiate with, and Palestinians have made it clear they are not going to negotiate, but will instead opt for having more nice wargames, such as cast lead., or the one before that between Hamas and Fatah.They appear to be asking for it. What they SAY they want officially, a nation of their own, side by side with Israel, is not what they want or aim for. It is also not possible for them to obtain it, not even IF they were willing to sit down and negotiate, Without a government, a constitution, or some agreement on what form their government will take, it would be impossible. Then, today I read that Fatah members from Gaza, who have fled to the Westbank, have pleaded to please not to have to be sent back to Gaza. One wonders why that would be the case. Really, Marcus, Race is not the issue. It is not my issue, for sure, my family has all sorts of races and ethnicities. The issue is that there is not one people who are Palestinians and belong to one nation. They are from, hail from, have documentation from, all sorts of origins, but there is no country named Palestine, therefore, there are no Palestinians. A Hungarian is from a country named Hungary. An American is from a country named America, and Italian is from a country named Italy.

[YankeeCanuck]

And the land itself was called British Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel. Sacred Landscape, by Meron Benvenisti details how cartographers erased the ancient Palestian arabic names from Israel in the early 50s. Both peoples have roots there.
There is a shared history, though it may be anathema to some.

[mommamia526]

Still an impressive lineup of opinions. However, it is not about Israel, or Afghanistan, or any parliamentary system - they are not all alike - . This article is about Hamas banning elections which Abbas has called for. And it is true, I hate to admit it, that Abbas' term has been up for some time now. That said, Hamas and the PA are disjointed, and who elects whom, and what area that would encompass, is an unanswered question. Real issues, to me, are is there a nation called Palestine and is there any shape or form of unity, at all? Does not appear to be the case from here. And another issue is, that I have never, ever, in my long life heard of parliamentary elections where the party with the largest majority of the vote then denies minority parties to participate in government, let alone sets out to murder the members of those parties. Only in Hamastan! This view is not meant to elicit an impression of superiority of any nation, any party, any groups. It appears to me, however, that there is no Palestine, and that there will not be a Palestine. All this separate from the fact that people are posturing as if they are in the process of creating it. Israel must give up territory. Hamas says there will be no peace with Israel, but war, AND there are internal and bloody, literally, divisions.

[Wisdo]

that I have never, ever, in my long life heard of parliamentary elections where the party with the largest majority of the vote then denies minority parties to participate in government?

Really? Practically every country that was colonially occupied by Britain has had this problem - and almost all have had civil wars because of it.

[Ergon]

The people of Afghanistan had a constituent assembly in 2002. We didn't like what they all wanted, that their King come back as head of state. So he was forced to stand aside by the Americans, so their puppet Hamid Karzai could be installed instead. And we're still paying the price.
Now we want eelctions to install another puppet over the Palestinians?

[CigarGod]

Should be readily apparent to all, that the real USA "interest" in the world...is control.
Not democracy, not human rights, not self-determination.

[MosheDayanHero]

Yellow uniforms--­appropriat­e.

[CigarGod]

All this talk about Israel being a bright beacon of democracy, requires a bit of perspective.

Israel is 38th of 167 in world democracies and categorized as a "flawed" democracy. I'm sure this ranking will fall as the Gaza invasion last winter is factored in for the next listing.

The Economist ranks countries based upon the ablity to conduct successful business. They are not a humanitarian or political organization, so their evaluation cannot be said to have much bias.

As a courtesy, I have provided a wiki for the Economist report. It is easier than signing up with the Economist to get to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

[Ergon]

There ya go, CigarGod: http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story981.html
"Half a democracy by Ha'aretz Daily eMail to a friend

Posted on January 26, 2003


By Gideon Levy

What sort of democracy is this, if exactly half the state's residents don't benefit from it? Indeed, can the term "democratic" be applied to a state in which many of the residents live under a military regime or are deprived of civil rights? Can there be democracy without equality, with a lengthy occupation and with foreign workers who have no rights? And what about the racism?

The storm that was engendered by the leak of a document to the press by an attorney in the Tel Aviv District Attorney's Office, Liora Glatt-Berkovich, and by the police interrogation, under caution to boot, of Ha'aretz correspondent Baruch Kra was perfectly justified. More and more cracks are becoming apparent in the democratic regime. Kra's interrogation was an ominous portent, the all-out assault on attorney Glatt-Berkovich is terrifying, and the conduct of the attorney-general, Elyakim Rubinstein, is disgraceful.

We must not lightly let these phenomena pass by. We must not forget that the entire structure is wobbly. Once Israel became an occupying state, it ceased to be a democracy. There is no such thing: Israel's claims about its democratic character are empty boasts. Just as there is no such thing as a partial pregnancy, there is no such thing as a partial democracy, either"

[CigarGod]

Thanks.

[TheLonelyGod]

You're taking *Gideon Levy* as an objective source about the state of Israel's democracy?

Really?

[mommamia526]

Israel may or may not be a democracy, but Arabs are represented in the Knesset. It is NOT ABOUT ISRAEL AND ITS GOVERNMENT, It is about Palestinians and a nation to be formed, named Palestine. For your information, the U.S. is also not a Democracy; it is a Republic. That, too, has nothing to do with Palestinians and Palestine, a to be formed nation. As long as there is no Palestine, there are no Palestinians. Race, and ethnicity do not make a nation, or a form of government. By the way, it is November 2009 in a few days.

[mommamia526]

Democracy is a form of government, and it is internal to the nation. A democracy is still a democracy if it defends itself against continuous attacks. Eight years of kassams out of Hamastan brought on Cast Lead after multiple warnings. Gaza is destroyed, people are destitute, but they still have enough money to shoot off kassams into Israel, I believe two just this week. A democracy is where people have a voice, and the voice in the latest elections in Israel was right wing, and that was the case especially because people wanted defensive action against Hamas and Hezbullah. This year five katyushas have been shot out of Lebanon. The last one was claimed by Al Qaeda. Lebanese were seen, and filmed, entering and leaving Israel. In a democray people decide, not party heads. Israel has free elections. Hamas forbids elections. No matter where your interest and love lies, in discussing issues, it would be best to keep to facts, or one becomes irrelevant. The issue, again, is not democracy, not Israel, and not democracy in Israel. Hamastan is not part of Israel. The real issue is whether or not *Palestinians* are able to unite in a workable union, and that is demonstrated not to be the case.

[courtb]

Wow, CigarGod, that's a pretty big stretch, even for you. On a list of democracy where the US is ranked 18th and is just .22 above a "flawed" democracy...you claim that Israel being 38th out of 167 proves you right? Israel, even on this list, is the highest ranked country in the Middle East and is higher than many countries in Europe.

Personally, I think all countries have flawed democracies. No one is perfect, no system is perfect, and there is always room to grow and change.

And obviously, you didn't do enough research. I didn't have to sign up for anything to find the following within the report:

"Palestinian Territories—from flawed democracy to hybrid
The Islamist Hamas movement that won the parliamentary election in early 2006,
and Fatah, who hold on to the presidency have failed to bridge their differences.
Instead, factional infighting has worsened in recent years, culminating in the
takeover of power in the Gaza Strip by Hamas while the Palestinian president,
Mahmoud Abbas, of Fatah has tried to maintain his grip on the West Bank. Political
violence has worsened."

[Rand]

At some point in time Palestinian Arabs are going to have to claim SOME responsibility for something being wrong. This is, as near as I can determine, an internal squabble over power... So, OF COURSE, it's Israel's fault

The weather's lousy: Blame Israel

You stubbed your toe: Blame Israel

[CigarGod]

At some point you will have to look beneath the surface if you want to understand better.

Israel created Hamas.
Israel supports Fatah and the PA.

[Rand]

Thanks for making my point

Have a cigar!

[chonus]

For anyone interested in what is truly taking place in the occupied territories of Palestine by Israel, google Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&source=hp&q=peace+propaganda+and+the+promised+land&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=-J7pSrzgF5PgNbWh3aMN&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQqwQwAA#

[Wisdo]

"Hamas rejects the holding of elections in the Gaza Strip because they were announced by someone who has no right to make such an announcement and because they came without national agreement"

Hamas are absolutely 100% correct in rejecting Abbas calls for an election.

For people who read the headline only, this would be like Rush Limbaugh or Michael Steele announcing there will be a new presidential election next year - they simply do not have the authority.

[MosheDayanHero]

Hmmm...... you mean Hamas has been elected to a hundred year term?
And no challenges to their miltary coup are allowed. Ever?

[mommamia526]

Yes, absolutely correct. BUT...Palestinians want to have their own country. That will require a government, a constitution of some sort, political parties, a means to employ people and to defend them, an economy. As long as Hamas holds that up, there will be ...NOTHING for Hamas, for the Palestinians for the Arabs in the PA territories, and those in the ghettos in neighboring countries, such as, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt (Gaza). Palestinians, or other Arabs, who are Israelis have full participation and rights inside Israel.

How does one come to a *national agreement* without a nation, without elections, without a country, or territory, without an economy, without a means of feeding a population (UN rations??). Your enlightened explanation would be welcomed here. Granny is stting here, bewildered, totally nonplussed. What in the WORLD is this WISDO babbling???

[courtb]

I honestly cannot believe my eyes. On a liberal blog, people are supportive of the banning of elections? Really?

[Wisdo]

Elections are not being banned. The headline is preposterously incorrect.

[TheLonelyGod]

People are not being allowed to vote for their representatives. Is that something you agree with?

[courtb]

I read the article, it sounds like elections are being banned to me.

Did you read the article? That, according to Palestinian Basic Law, elections need to be held on January 9th. What was going on January 9th of last year that prevented elections from taking place?

Whether you like it or not, there needs to be elections because Abbas' term has run out. Hamas is saying no to these elections, saying Abbas has no legitimacy. If he has no national consensus, neither do they. Therefore, come together in a unity gov't already and hold elections. Otherwise, they are just as illegitimate as they consider him to be.

[mommamia526]

No, the headlines are correct. Abbas may be out, but Hamas is not an acknowledged legal government, and therefore has no authority either. Moreover, if you come to rule over a segment of a population via threats, and even murder, and the majority of the population is dependent on handouts from the UN, you declare war and have your population not protected (bombshelters), and continue to declare war after having been demolished and claiming victory where, clearly, there was none, and then turn around wailing that you were devastated by the big, bad wolf, in an unproportionate defensive action, you are confused, you confuse everyone, and clearly, you are in no position to allow elections, because you would lose. It appears that the Arabs in the PA territory are much better off. Therefore, there is a chance that those same Arabs would prefer Abbas, whether or not Hamastan approves of it.

[CigarGod]

If the bull had a greater perspective than just being able to see the cape, perhaps he would be more successful.......

[Ben Cohn]

The United States does not have to accept the legitimacy of a government whose only policy goal is war and violence and who publicly supports the use of terrorism. If they want to vote for those people that's fine but we don't have to recognize them as legitimate or believe that they should stay in power.

[MarcusT]

Even if one were to stubbornly hold on to the illusion that Israel exists only within the pre-1967 borders, one would still have to acquiesce that while democracy may exist, it now stands on very shaky grounds. The great political theorist Montesquieu taught us as much. In addition to his well known claim that freedom can be secured only through the separation of the legislative, judicial, and executive powers, he asserted that if a regime is to maintain its form, the norms and values held by a people must correspond with the regime's basic principles.

An IDI (Israeli Democracy Institute) report clearly reveals that even within Israel proper the majority of the population no longer believes in the basic principles of democracy -- equality and freedom -- thus suggesting that democracy is in demise. If, however, one faces up to the fact that Israel's borders reach the Jordan Valley, then democracy simply does not exist.

[TheLonelyGod]

"An IDI (Israeli Democracy Institute) report clearly reveals that even within Israel proper the majority of the population no longer believes in the basic principles of democracy -- equality and freedom -- thus suggesting that democracy is in demise."

Link please.

[alysheba 3]

I believe this is what he is quoting

"61 percent of the Israeli public is dissatisfied with the Israeli democracy, the study also revealed."

Other quotes from the same report:

The report, which this year focused on the integration of Russian immigrants into Israeli society, tested the prevalent notion that the integration was smooth. The findings of the study, however, suggested otherwise. The study revealed that most Russian immigrants feel that they have no power to change their immediate reality, even 20 years after the immigration from the former Soviet Union began.

The poll found that 89 percent of Israelis think that corruption is prevalent in Israel. 50 percent think that politicians go into politics only for personal gain. Among Israel’s Arab population, the beliefs are a little different: 66% of Israeli Arabs don’t think that one has to be corrupt in order to succeed in politics.
(from: http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2009-08-03/israel-democracy-institute-annual-israeli-democracy-index/)

[Ergon]

Assuming there is such a link, will that change your opinions in any way?

[MarcusT]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=293813

Survey: Israel yet to grasp concept of democracy
By Mazal Mualem

More than half the Jewish population of Israel - 53 percent - is opposed to full equal rights for Israeli Arabs, according to a survey conducted last month by the Israel Democracy Institute. The general conclusion of the survey, which is dubbed the "Israeli Democracy Survey" and will be conducted every year, is that Israel is basically a democracy in form more than in substance, and that it has yet to internalize fully the concept of democracy. The current survey discovered the lowest support in the last 20 years for the assertion that democracy is the best form of governance:

[MarcusT]

Quite a choice; Hamas or the Vichy occupation government, PA.

[JerryLevy]

Imagine that, this totalitarian fundamentalist terrorist group "bans" elections in Gaza. Kind of like the Taliban trying to stop voting in Afghanistan and Al Queda trying to blow up Iraqis who were voting in the last election. I wonder if Hamas will just have extra judicial killings of anyone trying to vote like they had during the Gaza war of their fellow Palestinians (according to Human Rights Watch).

[alysheba 3]

No matter what Israel and the US say, Abbas is not the elected leader of Palestine and has no right to call an election.

[who38]

"this totalitarian fundamentalist terrorist group "bans" elections in Gaza"....it also bans movement in and out of Gaza, controls the air and sea space of Gaza, and has committed human rights atrocities. Nice group!

[alysheba 3]

They are not banning an election. They are stating that Abbas has no right, politically or democratically, to cal an election. Hamas is correct.

And the "terrorist group" is the democratically elected government of Gaza.

[Ergon]

And prevents development of the Gaza gas field, cuts off their water, and prevents them from fishing to feed their people.
And they're talking about elections?

[duxguts]

There was an election once. We didn't like the outcome so we never spoke to them again.

[alysheba 3]

"Parliamentary systems usually have a clear differentiation between the head of government and the head of state, with the head of government being the prime minister or premier, and the head of state often being a figurehead, often either a president (elected either popularly or by the parliament) or a hereditary monarch (often in a constitutional monarchy)."
(from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system)

I live in a country with a Parliamentary system. Fatah did not win enough seats to lead the government, and I am sure that the Hamas MPs did not vote in the legislature for Abbas to lead the government. Therefore Abbas is not the democratically elected leader of the Palestinian people, irregardless of the opinions of the US or Israel.

[Ergon]

Abbas was elected separately, as President. His term of office ran out in January. He had NO right to call an election.

[courtb]

So what do you recommend he do? His term ran out during the Gaza War. Not really the best time to hold elections.

Should the Palestinians not have a democratically elected President? Democracy certainly isn't perfect in the territories but maybe Abbas is trying to rectify that.

What would you have him do right now?