Government Pushes To Create A New Health Internet

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Huffington Post Investigative Fund   |  Fred Schulte
First Posted: 10-30-09 12:54 PM   |   Updated: 11- 4-09 12:35 PM

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Hoping to provide the backbone for a grand plan to put the nation's medical records online, federal officials have been quietly retooling an obscure government data-sharing service into a robust new Health Internet.

The concept has drawn intense interest from technology firms, including Microsoft and Google, which are scrambling to find new--and profitable--uses for digital medical records and the cyber health-care services they are starting to spawn.

Aneesh Chopra, President Obama's chief technology officer, and Todd Park, who holds a similar position with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, previewed the plan late last month to an enthusiastic audience of health information technology professionals in Boston.

The administration hopes the Health Internet could be in operation by early next year and that its technological infrastructure will encourage millions of people to more readily exchange their medical records with doctors and hospitals online. Technical barriers and concerns about privacy have so far kept most people's health data in closed networks or paper files.

"This could catch on quite quickly," said Robert M. Kolodner, a psychiatrist and former federal health information technology chief who helped develop the network for government agencies. "Those who are skeptical can wait until they're more comfortable," the psychiatrist said.

President Obama has set a goal of creating a digital record for every American by 2014. The government is preparing to invest as much as $45 billion in stimulus funds over the next ten years to help doctors and hospitals defray the cost of buying electronic records systems.

Chopra said in an interview that the positive response from policy experts and technology companies to forging the system into a consumer-oriented network "is the right one." He said he was "excited about the possibilities for a really robust network."

Like the Internet itself, the existing health data-sharing service -- called the National Health Information Network -- was created for government use, in this case to allow doctors to exchange medical information from veterans' and military hospitals as well as for speeding up processing of Social Security disability claims. Though it's never been tested for wide public use, officials expect to quickly retool it to do so.

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The system relies on open-source software called CONNECT, which was developed by more than 20 federal agencies to share health information. Officials have spent millions of dollars on the system, but expect to adapt it for public use at little additional cost.

It remains unclear how the public will react to the idea of personal health data circulating widely in cyberspace. The push to transact medical business online raises a plethora of touchy privacy and security concerns as it shifts--at least ostensibly-- custody and control over health records from the offices of health professionals to consumers.

"The privacy issues are massive and the American public hasn't been informed about them," said Deborah C. Peel, a Texas psychiatrist and founder of Patient Privacy Rights.

Deven McGraw, a privacy expert at the Center for Democracy and Technology in Washington, said she worries that private medical data could be bought and sold without restriction, for purposes ranging from hawking new medicines to denying someone a job based on their health status.

"We don't have a rule that says, 'Thou shalt not use personal information for marketing purposes without someone's permission,''' said McGraw, who sits on a committee that advises the government on health information technology. "We've got to pay closer attention to that."

Yet some experiments around the country show that in the right circumstances many people are ready for cyber health services. Given the choice for the first time this year, thousands of University of Indiana freshmen agreed to store their medical records in digital files they can keep and update for the rest of their lives, for instance.

About four in ten new students plugged into the electronic network prior to arriving at the Bloomington campus. Many now rely on it for tasks ranging from booking clinic visits to sending test results to hometown doctors, according to Jeff Donnell, a vice-president at Medical Informatics Engineering. The Indiana firm supplied its NoMoreClipboard.com software to the university.

"These kids are pretty tech-savvy and they expect to conduct business online," said Donnell. He said the system also is a hit with "helicopter parents very involved in their sons and daughters' lives."

Pete Grogg, associate director at the Indiana University health center, agrees that privacy concerns might make personal health records a hard sell for middle-aged people. But he predicted that giving people control over their health histories during their college years would pay dividends later in life. The university already is thinking about expanding the digital records network to graduates and sees the Health Internet as a major gateway to speed that process.

"We're giving them the tools now to help them understand their health and how their behaviors impact that in the long term," said Grogg.

Mitchell Kapor, who as founder of Lotus Development Corp. was a pioneer of personal computing, said the excitement in high-tech circles over the online health network harkens to the 1990s, when government officials and entrepreneurs began to transform the Internet from an obscure military and scientific platform into today's crowded information superhighway.

Kapor predicts quick acceptance of the Health Internet from all age groups. While privacy concerns exist, he said, security will tighten up just as it did for other online commerce. "I can remember in the early '90s ... a large sector said, 'I am never going to put my credit card on the Internet,'" said Kapor. The Health Internet offers "a huge business opportunity " that "could be amazing in impact," he said.

At a September conference hosted by Children's Hospital Boston and Harvard Medical School, federal officials said they would move quickly to invite the public onto the new network. The meeting was attended by many top people in the health technology and business communities, who plan to assist government in making the system inviting and easy for consumers.

"I think this is a big deal," said John Moore, a health information technology blogger who reported on the meeting earlier this month. He said starting with just military personnel and their families could bring in more than 8 million people, and the number of users could quickly multiply.

Microsoft, which makes personal health records software called Health Vault, agrees. Google has a similar free product called Google Health. Both firms in recent months have announced partnerships with online health care ventures ranging from pharmacy services to companies that deliver medical care by videoconference.

Earlier this month, Google announced a deal with Florida-based MDLiveCare, which offers doctor consultations by video, phone or email. The company charges a monthly membership fee and $35 for a doctor consultation, according to its Web site. Patients can use Google Health to send their records back and forth to these doctors and other health-care providers. Microsoft has a similar arrangement with a company called AmericanWell.

Sean Nolan, chief architect and general manager of Microsoft's Health Solutions Group, said the Health Internet offers a "really great opportunity" for consumers to assume more responsibility for their health.

"The vision is of everybody in the nation and the world being able to manage their own health care," he said.

Microsoft expects this digital revolution to both improve the quality of medical care and "make it a ton more efficient. Both can happen at the same time," Nolan said. As an example, he said that massive amounts of data collected from patients can help health officials spot adverse drug reactions more quickly, thus saving lives.

He acknowledged that personal health record firms might sell patient data to drug companies and other health researchers, but said that Microsoft would never do so without the patient's consent. A Microsoft fact sheet on HealthVault says: "We do not use your health information for commercial purposes unless we ask and you clearly tell us we may."

Yet even the most exuberant tech people see speed bumps that could slow down traffic.

Roni Zeiger, a physician who is product manager for Google Health, wrote in a blog post in June that people still face "practical challenges" in trying to gain access to their health records.

"For example, getting access to your medical records today often requires that you fill out a form at your doctor's office, pay a $35 copying fee, and then wait a month or more to receive your records in the mail. Under the law, this is your data, and we believe you should have it the day you visit your doctor," Zeiger wrote. He declined to be interviewed about the Health Internet.

If consumers get control of their health data, one unresolved question is whether they should be able to alter an electronic record in their custody to wipe out potentially embarrassing details.

Editing one's medical records will prove to be a "very controversial area," said Kapor. But he said that privacy issues "are more tractable than worst pessimists think." For instance, he said, doctors' findings could be written much like an original blog posting to which the patient could add comments, but not change.

Donnell, the Indiana software executive, expects many concerns to melt away as electronic record-keeping catches on with doctors and hospitals.

"It always seemed silly that I as a patient have to go to doctor's office and essentially beg them to print me out a copy and pay a fee to get that," he said. "It's my health and my health information."

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Hoping to provide the backbone for a grand plan to put the nation's medical records online, federal officials have been quietly retooling an obscure government data-sharing service into a robust new H...
Hoping to provide the backbone for a grand plan to put the nation's medical records online, federal officials have been quietly retooling an obscure government data-sharing service into a robust new H...
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- MicheleCA I'm a Fan of MicheleCA 46 fans permalink
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While the mods are away, some respect for the blogger & the readers might be nice.

"No solicitations and/or advertising for personal blogs and websites or thread spamming"

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/p/faq-comments.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 11/02/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Do you always have to get the last word in?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:16 PM on 11/02/2009

"HEALTHCARE REFORM OFFERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEPLOY HEALTHCARE BUSINESS-DRIVEN NATIONWIDE NETWORK INFRASTRUCTURE"

For decades, Microsoft's Desktop Applications have Increased Productivity, Efficiency, and Costs Savings in the Work Place.

Proper Deployment of Health Information Technology (HIT) Solutions, and Training can Increased Productivity (i, e, medical data mining/warehousing, risks treatment, service delivery), Efficiency (i, e, medical errors, redundant and inappropriate care), and Costs Savings of around 20-30% of our Annual National Healthcare Expenditures ($2.4 Trillions).

The Engine for Economic Growth in the 21st Century is "Broadband­." We can start by Deploying. a pure Packet-based, All Optical/IP, Multi-Service National Transportation Network Infrastructure, using Ethernet throughout this National Healthcare Business-Driver Nationwide Network Infrastructure "Network of Networks." This new National Healthcare Business -Driven Network can then Connect All Optical Islands, Nationwide.

This type of Investment is like, the Investments that were made in the past, in the National Transportation Inter-State Highways, which Increased Productivity, and our Nation's GDP.

This Healthcare Business-Driven Nationwide Network Infrastructure can also Serve as a Business Driver for: e-Healthcare, e-Commerce, e-Education, Energy Systems, Transportation Systems, Social Networking, Entertainment, etc.

Please See: www.gkquoquoi.blogspot.com for Summary Deployment Plan for the nationwide Health Information Network (NHIN).

Gadema Korboi Quoquoi
President & CEO
COMPULINE INTERNATIONAL, INC.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 10/31/2009

Every person works works for a hospital's IT department has complete access to your medical data. Period. There are no controls over medical data. Period.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 10/31/2009

When you start seeing google ads on the web pages you are viewing for alternative drugs for all your current prescriptins, you will know how they did it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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That's very astute, how do we pay for Healthcare It as a product that we pay for with upgrades, or with Ads or with a budgetary process?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 10/31/2009
- Matt7 I'm a Fan of Matt7 241 fans permalink

From the article:

"Hoping to provide the backbone for a grand plan to put the nation's medical records online, federal officials have been quietly retooling an obscure government data-sharing service into a robust new Health Internet."

"'The concept has drawn intense interest from technology firms, including Microsoft and Google, which are scrambling to find new--and profitable--uses for digital medical records and the cyber health-care services they are starting to spawn.'"

"'We don't have a rule that says, 'Thou shalt not use personal information for marketing purposes without someone's permission,'' said McGraw, who sits on a committee that advises the government on health information technology­."
__________

While I understand the significant cost savings that could be realized with the creation and accessibility of electronic records, unless and until laws, security and enforcement catch up to the scope and pace of the internet, this project should not be launched, until assurances can be made against abuse and misuse of private information.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 AM on 10/31/2009
- MicheleCA I'm a Fan of MicheleCA 46 fans permalink
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A voice of sanity! Fanned & faved.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Nope, I disagree we need to argue these things before the money is wasted.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 PM on 10/31/2009

Should $18 billion in stimulus funds be used to buy the previous generation of kludgy and archaic 1980's EMR software? Or should the government do some analysis to decide if a strategic national healthcare software initiaive should be created to spend the money to create an open source, public-owned, interoperable, free EMR product for the next century? The healtchare industry is decades behind other industries in their use of IT. Congress wants healthcare reform. Wasting billions on worthless software is not reform. It is more caving in to the industry lobbyists and corporations.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:16 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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I already fanned you. But EMR is a medical record that is electronic in some way, EHR is an XML based dialect that is both programmible and verifiable. We have to be careful in our descriptions.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:28 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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The money is wasted if you follow the Recovery Act but the dicussion is six-months late.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 10/31/2009
- fijisailor I'm a Fan of fijisailor 21 fans permalink
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This may be the path to discounted health insurance for those with healthy life styles.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 AM on 10/31/2009
- socalgal38 I'm a Fan of socalgal38 49 fans permalink
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This could lead to single payer as well. I don't have any objections to having my medical records available to any doctor I go to. It saves time and in case i don't remember to list something it will already be there. A lot less chance of me receiving a drug I am alergic to and forgot to mention.

What i don't understand is why this is such a big issue. I could see if it was about a person's credit history being so widely available to anyone, that i do have a problem with.

It seems that the ones that object is the medical field because if our records were available they wouldn't have any control over their patients anymore. It's not like most of them will hand over your medical records when you ask for them. If the doctor misdiagnosed someone I am sure they wouldn't want their fellow doctors to know about it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 AM on 10/31/2009

Do you care if your employer has access to your medical data? How about the pharma company that makes your drug's? How about your local police department? How about ther company that sells medical software to your doctor? How about the US Army? How about your landlord? How about Google? How about the Republican Party? How about me?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 AM on 10/31/2009
- MicheleCA I'm a Fan of MicheleCA 46 fans permalink
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Violation of doctor patient confidentiality is the impetus behind medical practitioner's objection to making your medical records available online, not so they can maintain "control over their patients"! You, as a patient, have rights. Among them is your the right to refuse. You retain that right, regardless of your physicians recommended course of treatment. It's your healthcare provider's job to protect your rights.

I know you don't understand the issue, that's clear from your posts.

And no this is clearly not a move toward single payer!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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MicheleCA I moved left to continue the conversation. Everyone thinks EHR's will save money they won't because they don't address the money issues. Like spending 20% of a doctors time talking to insurance companies or the staff required to fill out all the different forms or the myriad of different computer systems in hospitals. EHR should be an opt or op out arrangement as long as a statistically significant segment of the population opts in, research will be happy. The real money saver is the creation of interactiv­e-electron­ic-medical­-workbooks that represent all the possible “Best Medical Practices” treatments that are a continuous real-time record of the treatment a patient gets whether it starts at the Doctor's and finishes at the hospital or just in the office.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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In my world, the women who is a quad-amputee in Florida because of miss-communication wouldn't happen, everything is audited and accountable, period.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:39 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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I would like the HP Investigative team to put together a Google Docs scenario where we can put together a process or solution that actually brings together our experiences so that we can come together to come to a solution instead of waiting for the free-market or the government to come up with the solution, we all know what the issues are we just need to be coherent.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:15 PM on 10/30/2009
- fcsakes I'm a Fan of fcsakes 84 fans permalink
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Its applicability, and therefore its cost, is highly suspect.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 10/30/2009
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As a vet I've had eletronic medical records for nearly two decades. I can get sick in any part of the country and no matter which VA hospitial or clinic I'm admitted to my medical history will be available to the medical staff. It's those electronic records that helped the VA outscore the private sector in 294 health indicators as scored by the Rand Corporation. For a decade the VA has bested private hospitals by double digits for patient satifaction scores.

When I go to the doctor the staff don't repeat all those questions about family history and allergies. They asked me those questions years ago, and put them in my electronic record.

The only bad news I can see is that 17 years worth of my medical history on the computer screen means my medical team can see trends, and knows very quickly whether I've been good or bad with my diet and exercise.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Exactly which is why I recommend DITA, see earlier comments, but I'm encouraged because as an IT Architect we're begining to have the needed discusions at last.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 PM on 10/30/2009

Despite literally hundreds of billions of patients' money spent on current EMR software systems, the simple capability to access your record from different healthcare providers does not exist as it does in the old VA system. Current EMR software is archaic and should not receive $18 billion in stimulus funds. Better and cheaper solution is to create a new integrated product given free by the government or just mandate the use of existing VA software. Current EMR software is a scandal waiting for a good investigative reporter to earn a Pultizer.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Agree, fanned.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:30 PM on 10/31/2009
- ddDinah I'm a Fan of ddDinah 22 fans permalink

BOOOOOOOOO­OOoooooooo­ooo
"Legislative PARANORMAL Activity"
Something frightening is happening on the Hill. I can feel it, but I just can't see it.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/10/video_legislative_activity.asp

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 10/30/2009

The Obama administration, in addition to trying to seize control of the health care and energy sectors, is implementing a national "broadband plan" to redefine the media and transform America's system of government. It's designed, they say, to provide "open government and civic engagement­." But it is an excuse for the federal government to control the Internet and access to information and even tell us what is truth.

Are all people blinded by a charming smile? Are all unable to
project where we're heading?

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/30/yet-another-public-option_n_339709.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Like maybe creating a functioning Healthcare IT highway system like when we created the inter-state highway system, or went to the moon, built the internet, put up the GPS satellites or built the railroads? That actually insures Americans are getting the "Best Healthcare in the World".

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:14 PM on 10/30/2009
- jws2346 I'm a Fan of jws2346 34 fans permalink

In theory having everyone's medical records assessable to medical professionals is a seemingly wonderful idea, an idea who's time has come. In reality I honestly think it's an invasion of privacy and dangerous to the owners of said records. There is NO way medical records could be sent to only those that have a need to see them. I don't care how good of security, I don't care how many firewalls you use or how complicated the encryption program is, there's ALWAYS someone that can get around it. That someone may be Heath insurance interests, political interests or some kid in the Amazon, but the fact remains any reasonably priced solution for the vast amount of medical records is not feasible at this time.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Nope! Your're thinking of data as in a database not data linked like buried treasure, unless you have a map, Good Luck! Creating a simple public-private open-source HIT process to answer the Brookings Institute http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2009/0901_btc.aspxx). By using the finest physicians, scientists and evidence based-medicine from around the world to come up with “Best Medical Practices” interactiv­e-electron­ic-medical­-workbooks using:
XML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//XML) ,
XML schema http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//XML_schema) ,
XForms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//Xforms),
Dita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//Darwin_Information_Typing_Architecture) and
web-services http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//Web_service)
(savings Director Orszag's 700b, no medical errors) which are IETM Class V compliant documents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//IETM) that when filled out are checked for accuracy and completeness in real-time and saved to a third-party (local telecom, savings malpractice 100b). The workbooks are created, maintained and continuously updated (always learning) by the regional Health Information Technology Research Centers, CDC, NIH, FDA and HHS in conjunction with the Healthcare Industry to provide an effectivity rating for treatments, the ability to produce a prognosis and cost of treatment in real-time. Senator Sanders 400b in administration costs would be reduced because the forms are already filled out and there's nothing to deny. DOD for their interactiv­e-electron­ic-trainin­g-manuals are already using these technologies the CBO can score the savings.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 PM on 10/30/2009
- HazMatt I'm a Fan of HazMatt 2 fans permalink

Obviously "no body" is posting pure spam. Shameless

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Since when does a FREE open-source HIT concept that has the potential to save 1.2 trillion a year in Healthcare become spam? The public-private workbook's idea is the only technologically sound way to reduce healthcare costs and medical errors across the country. It is currently being used by many companies across the country including the DOD to solve the same types of problems that we face in Healthcare. Again it's FREE, I would only benefit as a taxpayer and future patient but we as a country would lose a golden opportunity to create a Healthcare infrastructure that could last for years .

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 AM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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In particular follow the DITA link it was created to address the problems you just identified.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 PM on 10/30/2009

There is a way. It requires patients to own their own private data. But the industry and government will never allow that.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 10/31/2009
- gracie99 I'm a Fan of gracie99 7 fans permalink

Such easy accessibility of records will be a disaster to people who have had to change providers to get away from major inaccuracies in their medical records. Other people I know and I have done that, taking with us just our own synopses of our health, print-outs of lab reports, etc.

Patients, of course, have the right to request corrections. However providers usually simply append such requests to the back of the file, where it is unlikely that any subsequent provider would bother to read them.

The system proposed, in which patient comments would be recorded like notes to a blogger, would be just as bad. What patients need is the right to have corrections made.

There seems to be a common attitude that doctors don't make a lot of mistakes. That is absolutely untrue in regard to medical records. Most providers I've seen make at least a couple errors per visit. Most of those errors are minor, but many are significant and could easily lead to medical errors if the information is relied on.

In my experience, many doctors are extremely unwilling to believe that they could have made an error.

It will be interesting, though, to see if this openness reduces the tendency of many doctors to write juvenile sneering, contemptuous chart notes about patients who frustrate them (e.g. people with ideopathic pain disorders or psychiatric problems) and the tendency to use unfounded psychiatric labels (for which, if pressed, they rarely can name a single criteria).

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Yup agree, fanned.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 10/30/2009
- MicheleCA I'm a Fan of MicheleCA 46 fans permalink
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Your area of expertise is IT, not healthcare.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 10/31/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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But I also think that just your name, address, with the snide remarks and a link to your actual record should at the doctors office.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Anyway if anyone is interested http://www.cchit.org/ is the organization that is tasked by the Recovery Act to certify EHR systems and at the bottom of the page is the working group on "Advanced Security".

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 10/30/2009
- no body I'm a Fan of no body 10 fans permalink
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Sign up for their newsletter because they are the ones deciding the issues with your records and I'm sure they would love to meet HP peeps.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 10/30/2009

I believe this could be such a powerful tool when combined with all the new healing modalities but it needs to be opt in. I can see great profit potential in video conferencing with the healers of your choice, licensed or otherwise and even potential profits in assisting citizens to retrieve their medical records from all over the world. Most of all I love the idea that we could post our subjective comments on the records. That could be the most valuable part of digitizing.

Blessings X 10,

Ed

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 10/30/2009
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