How The Blue Dogs Cost Pharma $14 Billion

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First Posted: 10-30-09 02:12 PM   |   Updated: 10-30-09 03:00 PM

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Pelosi

As Speaker Nancy Pelosi sat down to put the finishing touches on the House health care bill Wednesday night, the California Democrat was stuck between four competing directives.

The first three, handed down by President Obama, required that the bill must not cost more than $900 billion over ten years, must not add "one dime" to the deficit and must not require the pharmaceutical industry to pony up more than $80 billion, in accordance with a deal struck between the White House, the Senate Finance Committee and the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA).

The fourth, foisted on her by her conservative Democratic members, required the public health insurance option to negotiate rates with health care providers. She had been unable to find 218 votes for a more "robust" version of the public plan -- with reimbursements tied to Medicare rates -- which would have saved taxpayers $85 billion over ten years.

That meant Pelosi had to find $85 billion somewhere. The speaker went looking -- and found Big Pharma.

"We just added something Wednesday night," she said on Thursday in response to a question from HuffPost about the deal drug makers cut with the White House. "In order to go to negotiated rates [for the public option] we had to have some changes in coverage because that cost more," she said. "We had always been predicating on the robust, and we took -- How can I say this? Well, it cost PhRMA $14 billion more," Pelosi said. "Fourteen billion dollars to help us keep our coverage, but taking it out of PhRMA."

Pelosi also cut tens of billions more by expanding Medicaid coverage, which is less expensive than most other health care, and billions more trimming subsidies to help people pay for coverage.

The irony here is considerable. Blue Dog Democrats, PhRMA's favorites, demanded the more expensive public option, which the drug makers then had to help pay for.

And PhRMA has been the closest industry ally of the White House during the health care debate -- spending millions on ads supporting reform as well as Democratic candidates. Yet it was the White House's ceiling of $900 billion -- which apparently is more politically palatable than a number that begins with a 't' -- that led to Pelosi's decision.

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"We took our costs down by insisting that they give a rebate, demanded a price rebate for low income people," said Pelosi. "In order to go forward today, the coverage, the bill paid for [and] not adding a dime to the deficit, we had to look not only in the close-in years, but the out-years and this additional $14 billion helped us achieve the fiscal place that we wanted to arrive at."

Pelosi said the drug makers were looking at $4.5 to $5 trillion dollars in revenue over the next ten years and could afford to chip in more. "I considered [the $80 billion] an ante. I didn't consider it the full pot that they were going to be participating in," she said, guessing they are "able to do at least double of what that $80 billion was to help us get this all balanced out."

PhRMA senior vice president Ken Johnson said such a critique of the industry misunderstands the costs of research and development. "Industry analysts would disagree with that assessment. They peg the net impact of health care reform on industry revenues as modest at best, ranging from a potential gain of 1% to a loss of 2%," said Johnson. "The number no one on Capitol Hill is talking about is the one pegged to job losses. We are still reviewing the 1,990-page House draft bill, but if enacted -- as is -- it has the potential to kill tens of thousands of jobs in America before the ink is dry at the signing ceremony. That's not a political scare tactic. That's an economic reality. When you start trading someone's job for someone else's health insurance, what have you really gained?"

Things are getting tense. Johnson is also arguing that taking too much from drug makers would mean that cancer, heart disease and diabetes never gets cured. (Baldness remedies would presumably still be found.)

"We can live in a world where there's only generic drugs, if that's what people want. But the sacrifice is the hope of ever curing cancer or diabetes or heart disease. I would not want to be a politician who tells his constituents, 'The good news is, we're saving you some money on your drug bills. The bad news is, we're probably never going to cure cancer in your lifetime.' For patients, in many cases, hope is the only thing they have," Johnson said.

Pelosi has little respect for the White House deal with PhRMA and said she'll fight the Senate -- which is still abiding by the deal -- in conference committee negotiations.

"There's very little interest in our caucus in protecting a deal that we were not a part of and did not approve of," she said.

As Speaker Nancy Pelosi sat down to put the finishing touches on the House health care bill Wednesday night, the California Democrat was stuck between four competing directives. The first three, hand...
As Speaker Nancy Pelosi sat down to put the finishing touches on the House health care bill Wednesday night, the California Democrat was stuck between four competing directives. The first three, hand...
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IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY
As someone who has done quite a bit of research on the billion dollar pharmaceutical industry, I can assure you drug companies DO NOT want to cure you of any ailment. There is no money/profit in a patient no longer needing their medication.

Drug companies spend more money on creating newer variations of their current top-selling drugs, than they do researching completely new drugs for different illnesses. Why you ask, I’ll tell you, so when their money generating drug patent on top selling HEART DRUG X runs out, they can still hold onto that market share ( and those patients) by obtaining a new patent for HEART DRUG X ER (Extended Release). Patients don’t have to switch to a new companies version of the drug i.e the patient’s drug dollars remain in the original drug companies coffers. They do not care about making you well, they just want to keep you alive and paying for their pills.

Doctors do not want to cure you either. It’s about their bottom line as well. If doctors keep prescribing drugs to you, you have to keep returning for office visits (which aren't FREE) to receive new prescription refills or to try NEWER medications to replace the previous drugs that had too many side effects. More money into the drug companies pockets and more money into the doctors pockets.

DRUG COMPANIES DO NOT WANT TO CURE YOU!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/11/2009
- Jesster I'm a Fan of Jesster 34 fans permalink
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This is meant to be a (an admittedly inadequate) reply to

Marcus: "I don't know who they are but the documents are FOIA product. Are you suggesting they are forgeries or simply that you are unhappy that they published them?"

Actually, neither. I want the unadulterated, unembellished facts (as I believe you have provided here.) I don't really care about the source - although I'm much more likely to believe what I hear from what I consider to be reliable (and preferably not a hellfire type agenda!)

My first reaction is to be suspicious of Judicial Watch - at least of their motives - but I have seen them take on people and organizations that I would have thought were their supporters and friends.

So if they've got the goods - I want to see them. And if their right they are right (correct.) Which doesn't mean I'm not still highly skeptical about both what they say and why they say. But here they seems to have the goods (though there may be mitigating facotrs that we should also know about.)

And you (Marcus) strike me as a solid source and someone who may not always get everything right - but who is trustworthy and really does his homework. I appreciate that.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 PM on 11/02/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 62 fans permalink
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Thank you. That "homework" is rarely appreciated.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 11/03/2009
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I love it when big pharma pretends to be hurting for cash. They threaten us with only generic drugs, but fail to mention that the majority of their research is taxpayer funded to begin with. If they want to stop making new drugs, can we have our ginormous sums of money back please?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 11/02/2009
- Deschris I'm a Fan of Deschris 18 fans permalink

This is exactly what happens when medicine and health care become a pure for profit business.The immorality of this whole affair stinks.The sad part of the whole thing is that you have lawmakers, mostly republicans, that don't see the immorality in it.You see people it's more expensive to treat you and extend your life....you know what you got to do now...Revolt!!!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 AM on 11/02/2009
- Harrier I'm a Fan of Harrier 10 fans permalink

Pharma is charging retail, this is pennies. All together, they should be saving $300 billion and not spending more.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 11/01/2009
- ZellaBee I'm a Fan of ZellaBee 13 fans permalink

I'd love to know the exact markup! Probably 1000%!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 11/01/2009
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DOCTORS ---- THE BOTTLENECK

(1) Virtually all doctors and specialists retire millionaires.

(2) Major cause of illness is the average American diet being 50% fats,
still no doctor is required to take one course in nutrition, and hardly a
doctor ever brings up the subject of diet with a patient.

(3) Your friendly family doctor makes most of his income referring customers to a specialist, as a universal referral fee gives him a 40% kickback, a full 40% of all money given to the specialist. No need for a doctor to expand his training or skills as it would just reduce profit.

(4) Now a black-out on any discussion about doctors. Only 25% of doctors belong to AMA,
only a very small number go public or take any position of healthcare reform.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 11/01/2009
- hrholmes I'm a Fan of hrholmes 91 fans permalink
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Single Payer is the only way our country can recover fiscally and physically. On the other hand for $5,000,000.00 I will throw America under the bus ‘for America’ like a good repug. For tens of millions more I will spew hateful garbage just as well as Coulter, Beck, Limbag, Palin or Bachmann for book deals and a faux TV show in a pear tree. It's the American way right? See Orly Taitz, she’s doing it!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 11/01/2009
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Above post is a mixture of good and confusion,
so read it only if you want to be locked in darkness and confusion.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 11/01/2009
- dems08 I'm a Fan of dems08 174 fans permalink
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o/t:

Halliburton Revenue/Profit:

2003: 12.4 billion/-984 million

2004: 16.2 billion/-820 million

2005: 20.5 billion/-979 million

2006: 20.9 billion/2.4 billion

2007: 22.5 billion/2.3 billion

2008: 15.2 billion/3.4 billion

2009: 18.3 billion/1.5 billion

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 11/01/2009
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Disaster medicine Revenue/Profit

2009: $2.3 trillion

2020: $5.5 trillion

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 11/01/2009
- ZellaBee I'm a Fan of ZellaBee 13 fans permalink

Somehow this ( pharma losing 14 billion) doesn't bother me. Pharma says if we live in a world with generics, we will give up finding a cure for cancer? Pleeese. They have no intention of finding a cure.
If they did they would lose even more billions.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 11/01/2009
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I truly believe that. Until you take the profit out of health care there will never be a cure for any major health issues. Single Payer now, in my life time.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 11/02/2009
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If we fund health care resarch the way we fund Defense, there wouldn't be any illness uncureable.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 11/02/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 62 fans permalink
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Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that it has obtained documents from the Department of Defense (DOD) detailing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's multiple requests for military air travel. The documents, obtained by Judicial Watch through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), include internal DOD email correspondence detailing attempts by DOD staff to accommodate Pelosi's numerous requests for military escorts and military aircraft as well as the speaker's last minute cancellations and changes. The following are a few highlights from the documents, which are linked in full below:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/news/2009/mar/judicial-watch-uncovers-documents-detailing-pelosis-repeated-requests-military-travel

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 11/01/2009
- dems08 I'm a Fan of dems08 174 fans permalink
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judicialwatch is a conservative promotion group

next?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 11/01/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 62 fans permalink
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Facts aren't partisan. That you believe publishing them is represents the public attitude that enables abuse of power and corruption.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 11/01/2009
- Jesster I'm a Fan of Jesster 34 fans permalink
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Yes demso80, that's what makes their findings surprising and worth looking into.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 11/01/2009
- rad21 I'm a Fan of rad21 19 fans permalink

Is healthcare insurance a mere payor (intermediary between the patient and healthcare providers) or is it supposed to help the 'manage care' both at the level of the consumer / public and the providers (deliverer of care)?

For-profit system is designed to generate and maximize profits at every step by whatever 'legitimate' means. Many at this site suggest to get rid on multiple insurance and replace them with a not-for-profit "Healthcare System". In a Healthcare system, the community is the patient. There is emphasis on prevention, group management of diabetes, hypertension etc. and treatments with the most cost-efficient methods.

One can follow one model or other; but not both - unless there are incentives (rewards) and disincentives (penalties) for both the consumer / patient on one hand and the providers (doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceuticals) on the other.

America has been following both models (for profit and not-for-profit) with spin, marketing, science and fiction. We have been only fooling ourselves, as recent reports suggest with 500 billion to 800 billion dollars in waste, fraud and abuse. Blue Dog Democrats are playing this game skillfully.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 AM on 11/01/2009

I didn't hear Obama say anything about pharmaceuticals company shouldn't be saddled with more than 80 billion cuts but of course it was in his behind the scene contract with big pharmas. It's doubtful from the beginning if Obama REALLY works hard for Main Street people. What he worries about is MORE profits for the pharmas while calling that a REFORM as we understood in his promise to have "affordable health care for all and with the same quality as congress's". We didn't know congressmen and women only pay 3% of the premium and the rest , 97%, is paid by taxpayers. Now, with reform , do we pay only 3% and 97% is paid by taxpayers with Obama's limit of under 900 billions in 10 years or we have a mandate to pay into a health insurance that eats up one third of our self-employed income? The rent costs one third of my income, the health insurance will cost one third (since it's mandatory to join, no more un-insured allowed) and one third of my income is left for everything else to live in this supposedly rich country? I had thought Obama is my savior but with his mandate to pay insurance to his rich friend, the pharmas, I have one third less of my income to live on. Thanks very much, Obama! The change we DON'T need!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 AM on 11/01/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 62 fans permalink
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Monday, October 20, 2008

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s home district includes San Francisco.

Star-Kist Tuna’s headquarters are in San Francisco, Pelosi’s home district.

Star-Kist is owned by Del Monte Foods and is a major contributor to Pelosi.

Star-Kist is the major employer in American Samoa employing 75 percent of the Samoan workforce.

Paul Pelosi, Nancy’s husband, owns $17 million dollars of Star-Kist stock.

In January, 2007 when the minimum wage was increased from $5.15 to $7.25, Pelosi had American Samoa exempted from the increase so Del Monte would not have to pay the higher wage. This would make Del Monte products less expensive than their competition’s.

Last week when the huge bailout bill was passed, Pelosi added an earmark to the final bill adding $33 million dollars for an “economic development credit in American Samoa.”

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 AM on 11/01/2009
- dems08 I'm a Fan of dems08 174 fans permalink
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Pelosi's husband doesn't own that stock, despite what a bogus Wikipedia entry briefly claimed.

Furthermore, American Samoa never got the minimum wage exemption it sought.

This is the latest version of a falsehood that's been circulating since January 2007, when Congress was debating a minimum wage increase.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_did_nancy_pelosi_get_wage_breaks_and.html

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 AM on 11/01/2009
- cuzkate I'm a Fan of cuzkate 3 fans permalink

It is thespirit and the intent of what she wanted to do that is so hellish.
What a woman of the people, wouldn't you say?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 AM on 11/01/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 62 fans permalink
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I would agree that Wiki isn't a reliable source but most every politician , and many high profile individuals, have services that monitor it constantly correcting, or at least disputing, anything they don't agree with. I have personal experience with this. I also have familiarity with Pacific Island Resources. As for the minimum wage "controversy" you need only check the Dept. of Labors site.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/americanSamoa/ASminwage.htm

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 AM on 11/01/2009
- MarcusT I'm a Fan of MarcusT 62 fans permalink
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· Nine Hundred One Battery, San Francisco, CA - Real Estate Partnership
· Oakwood Homes Corp - Bonds
· Oculan Corp - Common Stock
· Odyssey, LLC - Common stock
· Orlimar, LLC - Common Stock
· Overstock.com - Public Common Stock
· Pacific Island Resources LLC - Common Stock
· Piatti Restaurant Co., Tiburon, CA - Restaurant Opening Company
· Picture IQ Corp. - Common Stock (AKA Digital Intelligence)
· Plato - Common Stock (Formerly Netschools - Common Stock)
· Plumtree Software, Inc. - Common Stock
· Polycom - Public Common Stock
· Potomac Investment Association, Gaithersburg, MD - Real Estate Partnership
· Procure Point - Common Stock
· QIC (Quinton Instrument Company) - Public Common Stock (Now Quinton Cardiology Sys., Inc.)
· QualComm, Inc. - Public Common Stock
· Rainmaker Systems, Inc - Common Stock
· Read-Rite Corp, Inc. - Public Common Stock
· Ready Router (Now Netcessity)
· Recommender 2 - Common Stock
· Redenvelope - Public Common stock
· REOF V - Real Estate Partnership
· RF Micro Devices, Inc - Public Common Stock
· Robert Half Intl., Inc. - Public Common Stock
· Salesforce.com, LLC - Common Stock
·

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 AM on 11/01/2009
- Firbolg I'm a Fan of Firbolg 37 fans permalink
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All this talk about political heroics to scrape together savings should cut no ice with voters when the administration and congress danced eagerly past the most cost effective solution of all, single payer, led by the pied pipers of corporate and special interest.
The rats who followed the original piper never returned.
Unfortunately, ours will be back to work their wonders on more corporate friendly legislation again and again.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 11/01/2009
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Right on. You've gained another fan.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:19 AM on 11/01/2009
- baba2nde I'm a Fan of baba2nde 15 fans permalink
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For some reason there is plenty of money to pay for wars but not enough to provide decent health care? I have an idea. Redirect the money from wars to health care, and if war appetite remains, raise taxes to pay for them and draft all able-bodied persons for service and immediate deployment.

There is no problem in Afghanistan that a million troop deployment can't solve.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 PM on 10/31/2009
- Jesster I'm a Fan of Jesster 34 fans permalink
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Why make the innocent suffer for the vain and vile stupidity of others? Anyone who has an appetite for war - or insists on having one for reasons no one can really fathom : THEY are the ones who will have to BOTH finance and fight it.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 10/31/2009

Well said!

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 AM on 11/01/2009
- baba2nde I'm a Fan of baba2nde 15 fans permalink
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Actually commoners suffer everyday. The idea of a draft is to make the armchair generals in our midst think twice, lest their loved ones end up fodder for their stupidity.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 PM on 11/01/2009
- dems08 I'm a Fan of dems08 174 fans permalink
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this is only the first version that will be passed.

President Obama has another 7 years to go.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 AM on 11/01/2009

Not likely, this bill wont produce experience until Obama's last year in office, and that's assuming he doesn't get challenged by someone willing to more actively champion the interests of the people over the Bankers, Pharma, Insurance, and War Profiteers, and become a 1 term president.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 AM on 11/01/2009

Afghanistan is an un-winnable war. Billion of dollars will go down the black hole. Remember Vietnam? One million soldiers and superior technology didn't win the war for us. The geography, climate, local politics, religions, people,..., are all against us.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 AM on 11/01/2009
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