Frank Rich On Scozzafava Fallout: The GOP Stalinists Invade Upstate New York

New York Times:

Barack Obama's most devilish political move since the 2008 campaign was to appoint a Republican congressman from upstate New York as secretary of the Army. This week's election to fill that vacant seat has set off nothing less than a riotous and bloody national G.O.P. civil war.

Read the whole story: New York Times

Comments

[Peter007]

Since 1968, there have been 11 Presidential elections. The Democratic candidate has only achieved 50% or more of the vote just 3 times. 2008, 1996, and Jimmy Carter in 1976.

[ByersL]

Gd, he writes the best column!

[Openeyes]

The icing on the cake is that Scozzafava endorsed the Democratic candidate. Obviously, that's not going to influence any Republicans, it's more a middle finger salute, but it will reinforce the idea among the tea-baggers that you can't trust a moderate.

This will create a push for even more ideological purity. The death knell in Republican primaries will now be the label "moderate." They'll accellerate the cycle of extremists winning primaries and losing general elections.

[taddles]

And the Republican party will tear itself apart between moderates and ideologues and will become ever more irrelevant. Get the popcorn and grab a nice comfy chair, this is gonna be a train wreck to remember.

[mcmutter]

The Postal Service will be releasing their Teabagger stamp next year. Anybody got a clue as to what their accomplishment was ?

[VOTER]

Staining America

[rockymthi]

Any resemblance of today's teabaggers to the Boston Patriots of yore, is purely coincidental.

[Budokan]

Let the GOOPers cannibalize themselves, who cares?

[Nickel1951]

Pew Poll repeatedly shows that the make up of the American public is 20-25% liberal, 45% Moderate and 40% self define as Conservative. So don't get too wacked up with your delusions of Republican collapse. This country is center right and always has been and the mistake of the current Obama administration is it thought the country had changed to center left and they are watching the revulsion of all their policies. On tuesday you will see Obama rejected in New Jersey by wide margins, in Virginia by double digit margins and as the article above states the 28th US Congressional district will also go to a third party conservative candidate Hoffman now embraced by the GOP. It is going to be a come to Jesus moment for your Massiah.

[Querent]

This "40% self-define as conservative" stuff has become quite the talking point for the dittoheads. If it's true, the real question is, how important is that "fact"? Do the 40% vote exclusively for conservatives? Does their definition of "conservative" equate to a movement conservative's definition? Were those 40% of votes cast for George W Bush? It should be obvious that party registration is a more significant gauge than the conservati­ve/liberal identification. Why isn't that obvious to conservatives? Might it have something to do with their celebrated ability to delude themselves?

[NedroidPrime]

Wow, I didn't realize that Obama was running in a local NY district, for a state government position. When did they make it so that state-level legislators have a hand in dealings at the national-executive level?

Come on ditto-head, at least think your arguments through before you parrot them.

Also, if you claim to be in any way Christian, why do you think it is alright to blaspheme so? Do you like equating Obama to Him?

[Schneb]

and misspelling it, too--buy a *different* vowel.

[psychodog]

So 40% identify as conservative, yet only 19% identify as Republican.
Now if the other 21% actually liked Republican philosophy and ideals, why don't the identify as such?

Also, have you ever heard of a Blue Dog Democrat? Or maybe a Libertarian?

[lthuedk 1]

How many define themselves as Republicans?

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/773/fewer-voters-identify-as-republicans

http://www.americablog.com/2009/04/percent-of-americans-calling-themselves.html

Republicans with a conscience are ashamed. They should be. They supported Dick Cheney's dictatorship.

[WoodyCPM]

"Conservative" does not necessarily mean Republican. There are quite a number of Democrats who would identify themselves as "Conservative." Usually a conservative Democrat has more in common with old line liberal Republicans, i.e. they're fiscally conservative but socially liberal. In well run polls, with scientifically designed questions, most voters tend to be center left when asked about specific issues and policies. Most voters disagreed with Reagan on almost all his policy stands but they admired him as a person, for instance. That's the weird anomaly of American political culture where we have elections based on personalities and not on issues.

Your percentages don't add up.

[helenwheels]

This is for the w!ngnuttroIIies up here that insist most of the country is conservative.

NBC poll:

Strong Democrat..­­.........­.­........­..­.......­...­.... 24
Not very strong Democrat .......... ....... 6
Independent/lean Democrat..­­.........­.­.... 13
Strictly Independent ..........­­.........­.­........­.. 17
Independent/lean Republican ........... 14

>>>>>> Strong Republican ..........­­.........­.­........­..­. 10
>>>>>> Not very strong Republican­­.........­.­........­..­. 7

Other (VOL).....­­.........­.­........­..­.......­...­......­....­.. 6
Not sure......­­.........­.­........­..­.......­...­......­....­..... 3

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/01/conservatives-to-gop-we-a_n_341422.html#comments

[Querent]

Thanks, Helen. You rule this thread. I just became your fan.

[jakiew]

wonder how much rethug trolls get paid to sell their soul to the de-vil - a few bucks.

[Vere15]

Thank you Frank - we need to push three analogies because they are dropped all over by these pseudocons­ervatives: They are soul brothers and sisters of the Stalinists, Jacobins and King George III Royalists. They are completely devoid of the American heritage.

[smacc1]

Frank Rich is too caught up in cable TV histrionics. Glenn Beck maybe draws a couple or a few million viewers/listeners each day. The focus on the right-wing talkies exaggerates their importance and Rich is doing what a lot of his ilk does: Ascribing the views of a few right-wing cable personalities (not to mention right-wing extremist fringe groups) to the whole conservative movement.
He's right that the Republican Party is messed up. They're acting more and more like Democrats every day. No focused message. Squabbling over the issues. No real accountability or consensus. Fraud. Graft. Hypocrisy. No one can claim the Democrats as a cohesive group any more than they would the Republicans.
And for Rich to make big that 30% of the country identifies itself as Democrat (granted, the repubs even less) is nutso. Who would seriously brag about those numbers? If anything, neither party is winning any points with Americans right now. Fewer and fewer want to be associated with either one and for good reason.

Frank - "Stalinist Purges"? Talk about super stretched analogies.

[WoodyCPM]

Will Rogers once quipped, "I belong to no organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

[moveyourimage]

Firedoglake.com has posted an article today stating that Scozzafava's husband who is President of the Jefferson/Lewis/St. Lawrence Centra Labor Council, issued a statement through the AFL-CIO that he is endorsing Owens and is against the election of Doug Hoffman. So, even if Dede does not side with her husband, labor is switching to Owens and upping their "get out the vote" operation. It is also stated that the Independence Party endorsed Owens yesterday and the WH is publicly and privately urging Scazzafava to endorse Owens as well.

[VOTER]

Her husband, also, said Hoffman didn't care about average Americans
just like GW Bush.

Doug "Bush" Hoffman
Try and sell it!

[JaneK13]

Ms Scozzafava blames out-of-state money and Mr Rich blames a mysterious GOP (Stalinist?) group from (Russia??)

Truth is, Ms Scozzafava's friends and neighbors right there in the 23rd congressinal district convinced her to drop out. These folks are the members of the CentralNY912 Tea Party and they speak for the majority electorate in the district. Ms Scozzafava understands that.

All politics are local. Because of singular and independent Tea Party groups all over the nation, big political bosses of BOTH parties will no longer be able to command blocks of voters on statewide or nationwide basis. Tea Party groups do not owe allegiance to any specific party. They are purely local groups of American patriots, informally organized for the sole purpose of restoring our democratic republic to its roots as expressed in the Constitution. Tea Party members are fiercely loyal to the country and dedicated to our founding principles and values. They will restore the republic...one district at a time. In this case, the patriots instinctively knew Doug Hoffman is the one who will best represent the people of the 23rd district. Hope he wins on Tuesday.

[elkabong]

"Mr Rich blames a mysterious GOP (Stalinist?) group from (Russia??)"

Mr Rich was talking about the stalin-like purging of the GOP by the whackoloon right-wing.

Teabaggers may be sincere, but they have no idea what they're talking about - when it comes to the Constitution, the Founders or anything else.

Take a peek into the minds of the (astro-turf) teabaggers:

Tea Party Express II: Rise Of The Tea Bags (Part 1 of 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntrrUzNiggQ&feature=player_embedded

Tell me foxwatchers aren't dumb as dirt.

[helenwheels]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

OMG, JaneK actually thinks a r!ghtwing extrem!st ne0con is going to help get the Constitution back... um.... earth to Jane, they're the ones that gutted it! (see: the shrub madministration).

[psychodog]

That was great! Fanned. :)

[newsmaker]

Tea partiers are patriots? Where were these 'patriots' during the the lies that were being pushed to trump up the war in Iraq? Oh, I forgot. They were drinking tea.

[helenwheels]

Where were they when the shrub was gutting the Constitution? Not a peep.

[Quaoar]

Congratulations on a nearly fact-free post.

[UpstateSC]

How can a man who not only doesn't live in the district, but who knows practically nothing about it be the best choice to represent the district?

[helenwheels]

That's what I was wondering.

[smacc1]

Worked for Hillary in NY.

[jemiltd]

It sounds like Hoffman is a close cousin of #Palin in his obvious cluelessness. And he doesn't even live in the district? But given that the conservatives continue to place candidates in office that are all form, no function, I am curious as to how people that will work in the best interest of the constituents who have to live with that decision. Time for people to start thinking before pulling the lever and ask themselves: "Is this choice really in my best interest, or do I continue to blindly follow party lines and hope it all turns out?"

[helenwheels]

If the Democrat wins I'm never going to be able to stop laughing. I swear, I'll probably rupture my spleen or something....

[moveyourimage]

Me too!

[UpstateSC]

It will be almost more fun to witness the Rightists' joy if Hoffman wins. They will take it to mean that they are surging and will sweep 2010. Frank Rich is right, they will be "Punch-drunk ". Not sure how they will take an Owens win, but it's sure to be a good show - their reaction.

[hischagal]

And the republican party will still continue its nosedive and civil war. 17% of republicans id themselves as being republicans. That's even lower than 18% a few weeks ago.

I love it! The Democrats now have even more to look forward to in 2010. In my own imagination, I could not have dreamed up how bad things have gotten within the GOP. All these lovers of Reagan are no longer following his golden rule, that republicans should not to turn on one another...

[laurama]

The majority of people consider themselves conservative, less consider themselves "Republican".

If the Democratic candidate was pro-life, traditional marriage, NRA, military, surge in Afghanistan, anti-single payer, and the only thing he had in common with the Dems was that he hesitantly agreed to vote to raise taxes on the rich...

Would you vote for him?

Or vote for the Rep that was anti-gun, war, defense, pro-choice, gay marriage, and auto-raised taxes on the rich 100%?

Or if a guy stepped in as 3rd party, who espoused all the beliefs of the Dem party that you believed in, wouldn't you vote for HIM?

You know that you'd vote for the real Liberal. And you'd admire any Dem with the fortitude to endorse the *real* Democrat.

It's one thing for a candidate to disagree with *some* things their party champions. It's something else to literally disagree with every major issue of the party.

It doesn't make sense to vote for someone wearing your party's banner who doesn't represent what you believe in.

For you guys to gripe that some Reps endorsed Hoffman in a race where the "Republican" candidate was more liberal than the Dem candidate is silly.

What really has the left in an uproar is that Sarah Palin endorsed Hoffman and turned that race on a dime. If Hoffman wins, it's because the people want HIM to represent them. And that, my friends, is how the process is supposed to work.

[mummblemouth]

Yay, Carpetbaggers!

[supergenius02]

If the resurrgence of convervatism in the GOP is so horrible as Frank Rich implies, why aren't the liberals cheering? Instead, they are afraid. Every poll says Americans identify themselves as conservative 2 to 1 over those identifying themselves as liberal. Conservatism is the GOP's way back.

[mendelcrosses]

My Friend,I dont know what America you are talking about.

-Conservatives say NO to Healthcare reform.77% of America says YES
-Conservatives say lets bomb any body who doesnt think like us or have what we want. 70% of America syas get out of Iraq and Afghanistan NOW
-Conservatives thinks you arent American unless you are Caucasian,Women shouldnt vote,Slavery is a good practice,Laws should be made using the bible.The American constitution explicitly rebuke those by stating "All man are born equal".

From those statics,it is easy to conclude that less than 30% of America is conservative.

[helenwheels]

Back citing that nonexistent poII and lying about how liberals or dems fear the return of conservativism? Sad.

I notice there's never any link or data to back it up when you w!ngnutz cite that 2-t0-one b.s.

[supergenius02]

Here is your proof liberals:
"PRINCETON, NJ -- Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

[indy oriented]

Schooled again. Next we will be hearing that Gallup is a Republican controlled organization.

[laurama]

You can disbelieve whatever you like. But step back, look at the reality. The more this admin tries forcing gov't control of healthcare, private industry, banks and so on, the more they push the indies to the right. When Liberal issues like abortion, gay marriage, military cuts, high taxes, high spending are voted on by the American people, the American people overwhelmingly vote against them. It is because overall, the American people are more conservative in nature. Obama did not get elected because people wanted all of the issues listed above, he got voted in because McCain fared poorly on the campaign trail, and the people wanted a change so much, they voted for the concept of "change" rather blindly. Now that they realize what sort of change they got with that vote (drastic and uber liberal), they are moving even more to the right than they were before. Face it, kid, most people do not want the very fabric and foundation of our country changed. Most of us like it just the way it is (we just want better leaders running it).

[Lucy0808]

That is not the case. Please post with less silliness.

[supergenius02]

Please see my post above. Gallup has Americans identifying themselves as Conservative at 40% and liberals at a lowly 21%. The GOP is down because the moderates have taken over the party. Conservatism will save it.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

[helenwheels]

Oh and we are cheering. Don't you read the comments up here?

[elkabong]

Every poll says that conservatives are delusional and make stuff up about a lot of things including cheering and fear.

[indy oriented]

Apparently Gallup is a made up poll according to you.

[laurama]

Heh, That would be funny if I didn't think you actually believed it.