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The 'Bright Line Rule': New Papers Detail FBI, CIA Wrangle Over Torture

DEVLIN BARRETT and PAMELA HESS   10/31/09 12:37 AM ET   AP

Holder

WASHINGTON — Newly released documents show the FBI interviewed a naked, chained terror suspect back in 2002 as the bureau struggled with the CIA over how to treat high-value prisoners.

Details of the interrogation were contained in documents released late Friday as part of Freedom of Information Act lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International, and Judicial Watch.

As the CIA began to use harsh interrogation techniques against captured terror suspects, the FBI became wary of the legality of the methods, which ranged from forced nudity to waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning. As a result, FBI agents were ordered not to participate in such harsh interrogations.

Yet sometime in late 2002, an FBI agent interviewed accused Sept. 11 plotter Ramzi Binalshibh at a CIA site. The agent later said he got valuable information out of Binalshibh before the CIA shut down the questioning.

According to one document, FBI officials told investigators when they arrived at the unidentified CIA site "the detainees were manacled to the ceiling and subjected to blaring music around the clock."

The FBI agents worked with the CIA in developing questions, but were denied direct access to Binalshibh for four or five days, according to a report on detainee interrogations by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn Fine.

The report says eventually one agent was allowed to speak to Binalshibh for about 45 minutes.

"Binalshibh was naked and chained to the floor," the report said. The FBI agent later said "he obtained valuable actionable intelligence in a short time but that the CIA quickly shut down the interview."

The report said FBI officials later had serious misgivings about their participation in the Binalshibh interrogation.

The incident "indicates that a 'bright line rule' against FBI participation or assistance to interrogations in which other investigators used non-FBI techniques was not fully established or followed" at the time of the interrogation, the report said.

Even the new release of documents still holds back many details. Still missing is a transcript of FBI Director Robert Mueller's interview with investigators examining the interrogation issues.

A censored version of the inspector general's report was released last year, but Friday's release disclosed a few more details about the Binalshibh case.

Binalshibh is one of five prisoners currently at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility facing a possible death sentence for allegedly taking part in the 2001 terror attack on the U.S.

Military doctors have diagnosed him with a psychiatric disorder and he has been treated with a drug for schizophrenia, according to court papers, but the exact nature of the apparent illness is unknown.

The government papers released Friday also reveal that after Saddam Hussein was captured by U.S. forces in Iraq, FBI officials debated whether he should be read his Miranda warning of legal rights, but they ultimately decided he did not need such a warning because he was unlikely to be brought back to the United States to face criminal trial. He was ultimately tried by Iraq's new government and executed.

Since Barack Obama became president in January, many of the most closely held secrets about the CIA's treatment of detainees following the 2001 attacks have come to light.

One of Obama's first decisions as president was to order the CIA to close its network of secret overseas prisons.

He also prohibited harsh interrogations and required all U.S. personnel to adhere to the rules of the military's field manual.

The manual, last updated in September 2006, prohibits forcing detainees to be naked, threatening them with military dogs, exposing them to extreme heat or cold, conducting mock executions, depriving them of food, water, or medical care, and waterboarding, which Obama says is torture.

In August, Attorney General Eric Holder announced a criminal probe into abuse allegations of prisoners by CIA employees.

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WASHINGTON — Newly released documents show the FBI interviewed a naked, chained terror suspect back in 2002 as the bureau struggled with the CIA over how to treat high-value prisoners. Details of...
WASHINGTON — Newly released documents show the FBI interviewed a naked, chained terror suspect back in 2002 as the bureau struggled with the CIA over how to treat high-value prisoners. Details of...
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06:19 PM on 11/01/2009
"Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require... for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country."
-- Washington; Sept. 14, 1775

"Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,"
-- Washington; following the Battle of Trenton 1776

"Not only your Officers, and Soldiers have been treated with a Tenderness due to Fellow Citizens, & Brethren; but even those execrable Parricides [traitors] whose Counsels & Aid have deluged their Country with Blood, have been protected from the Fury of a justly enraged People."
- Washington; letter to his British counterpart, Aug19 1775
12:10 AM on 11/02/2009
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Who would Jesus torture (besides Cheney)?
.
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
06:48 AM on 11/02/2009
What are your thoughts on the relationship between torture and hell?
09:20 AM on 11/02/2009
I think that's the devil's job.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
05:13 PM on 11/02/2009
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine, Dissertation on First Principles of Government, December 23, 1791
03:28 PM on 11/01/2009
Cheney. GUILTY.
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lthuedk 1
Artist, Political Imagery
10:02 AM on 11/01/2009
Valerie Plame is proof that a better, patriotic C.I.A. does exist; that it's an agency infected by Neo Conservative infection but hardly taken over. A good purging of moles would help.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/a_retrospective.html

And, it's pretty clear now that Mueller has had his head in the right place regarding torture.

The past few days must have been a nightmare for regime and ideological supporters. It's going to get much more uncomfortable.

Run Neo Con. Run.
06:24 AM on 11/01/2009
What would happen if a bunch of our solders got captured and sent to Iran to be tourtured?
What if Iran waterboarded them, beat them, sleep deprivation, loud non-stop music and all that?

Then they put them all in a prison, stripped them naked and made them into human pyramids and made them perform "mock" sexual acts on each other?
Then maybe got some dog leashes and draged them around.

Maybe they sent some to secret locations for "enhanced rendition"

What do you think the US would do, and how would the rest of the world feel about our treatment?

And then after many years of this, Ahmadinejad looses the election and a new president comes into power and says Iran does not tourture but refuses to do anything about what has happened.

Do you think that is dual standards?
09:48 AM on 11/01/2009
You're just bringing up that old Christian "Do unto others..." thing. How quaint. You forget, we can nuke them if they get out of line, they can't nuke us. Where's the problem. (Sorry, hyperbole at its worst. Of course we were wrong. The chicken hawks just never get it.)
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chedet
Le Panda
05:29 AM on 11/03/2009
Iran as far as I know didn't call themselves the world's police, we did. If they had done whatever you stated above , you know very well we would have gone into Iran and start a war with them. The double standard always favors us so the scenario you gave is basically useless.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
monicaangela
“Every human longs for peace and love.
05:41 AM on 11/01/2009
Maybe I'm not looking at this correctly, but IMHO, this terrible breach of what our policy has supposedly been in the past, will cause terrible implications far into our future. Okay, so President Obama is against torture, and has tried to block some of the terrible policies the past administration allowed to be implemented by closing prisons, outlawing torture, that was already outlawed etc., President Bush was for torture apparently, and what President Obama is doing is revoking/changing his policies, so how is any foreign nation suppose to trust this country ever again...to me it appears to be a matter of the taste of the person in office as to whether we torture of not under present circumstances. We need to investigate this publicly so that not only our citizens can see that we are fully aware of the fact that what happened under the Bush administration was against our laws, but that any president trying to repeat this in the future will also be held accountable and prosecuted, that way maybe the world can again have confidence in our laws...what is happening now, takes me back to some of the Indian Treaties signed by our forefathers, most were not worth the paper or ink they were written on. When is this nation going to stop pretending and become honest and earnest in its policy making. Anything short of a full investigation encompassing everyone involved is forgiveness for crimes we all know have occurred.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sugarpops
03:32 PM on 11/01/2009
Totally agree.
Especially the individuals who were involved with framing and implementing torture need to be investigated, prosecuted and punished for war crimes.
The US signed the Geneva Convention which set the standards for how prisoners are treated. The artifice of excusing torture of prisoners because the country they are a citizen of did not sign the Geneva Convention is a trick to excuse criminal behavior. As is using the excuse that innocent people might die if torture to is not used.
It has been proven repeatly that the information extracted by torture is not reliable. Anyone will say anything to stop pain. There are many more proven techniques to secure accurate information that are well within the Geneva Convention standards.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FACTISFACT
A war veteran. Finally retired
12:19 AM on 11/01/2009
This interrogation system 's introduction, its implementation, policy and authority issued to interrogate with method of torture to extract confessional statement ( not acceptable in any curt of law) all these things should be thoroughly investigated and those found guilty proper legal action be taken against them, to end with this blame game.

The investigation should be against all, top to bottom. Instead of any good to the security of the country it became the cause of vicious international criticism against the country. Isn't it enough for the Americans to bear with the ugly malicious intentional doings of the public leaders of responsibilities of the country. It is simply digusting to think of.
11:49 PM on 10/31/2009
Like I said time after time, the only thing the American GI had going for them is that Americans don't tourture, that saved a lot of lives during the years. Even John McCain's and a lot of guys druing the Vietnam War. The CIA is to spy and gather intelleigence, the FBI got more info from the Nazi's during WW2 than the OSS. The FBI knows how to get info and they are good at it, beleive it or not they are better trained than the CIA.
11:38 PM on 10/31/2009
Tip of the iceberg.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ssfahrer
12:29 AM on 11/01/2009
And any investigation will wind up like the Titanic-- once you run into it you will surely sink!!!!!
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lthuedk 1
Artist, Political Imagery
04:47 PM on 11/01/2009
Hardly. This is not Alberto Gonzales's Justice Dept.

A complete investigation will educate and unite-not divide America. There ought to be no fear of the truth.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/the_joy_of_dictatorship.html

It truly will set you free.
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10:58 PM on 10/31/2009
"In August, Attorney General Eric Holder announced a criminal probe into abuse allegations of prisoners by CIA employees." Are the revelations of CIA misconduct are part of Holder's probe? Is he still probing? What's happening with that? Binalshibh was probably driven insane by the torture. If we had not made the man crazy maybe we could have got some more information out of him. The FBI also looks a lot better than the CIA in all this.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fred Hood
United we win divided we lose
10:46 PM on 10/31/2009
why I have an allotment to the ACLU...........get um boys
09:48 PM on 10/31/2009
Imagine for a minute what would happen if we found out that Syria interrogated a naked and chained American citizen.
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10:06 PM on 10/31/2009
Syria interrogated a naked, chained, and tortured Canadian at the request of Canadian and American intelligence agencies*. It's only because the victim was both totally innocent and had a persistant, articulate, well-educate** and resourceful wife who ably organized a campaign to get her husband freed and returned to Canada that this gained any notoriety. The Canadiann government eventually awarded him $10 million compensation for it's role. The US has steadily asserted a national secrets privilege to have his lawsuit against them quashed.

So, on this basis, I suspect that the American reaction would depend, bluntly, on whether the individual was an arab or muslim. If he was a Syrian-born muslim, as the Canadian was, then I doubt there'd be much fuss made at all.

*Canadian intelligence tipped the US off that this individual had several years earlier provided a reference for a man suspected of being an al Qaeda mole. This was enough to motivate US authorities to pull him off a plane which had stopped in NY on its was to Canada, and to render him to Syria for torture.

**Both husband and wife had PhDs.
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lthuedk 1
Artist, Political Imagery
05:18 PM on 11/01/2009
And it was who...? Harper, a.k.a.Bush the Neo, in charge, satiating the globalists? How easily Conservatives capitulate to authority. How's his Right Wingsmanship doing lately?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/01/25/canada/
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
06:54 AM on 11/02/2009
Good points.

The information released has emphasized that Muslims and Arabs and collaborators have been tortured and other groups generally need not be greatly concerned about their safety and the safety of their relatives.

Republicans are not breaking a sweat at night fearing that they are going to be waterboarded for their latest joke about killing the President or Speaker of the House or other liberals.
11:14 PM on 10/31/2009
Also, some of the Americans detained may have been tortured in Syria, the black sites locations are still classified.
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09:34 PM on 10/31/2009
It'll be extremely difficult to try Binalshibh in any court that takes the constitution and the UN Treaty against torture seriously. The latter's total ban on evidence obtained by torture will be particularly inconvenient. Once a prisoner has been tortured, he can never be 'untortured'; any future interrogation will be colored by his knowledge of what can happen if he fails to give the answers the interrogators demand.

This is the flaw in the 'clean team' interrogation/prosecution experiments that were being carried out under the Bush administration. Both teams were working for the same government, and it was the government, not the team, that ultimately ordered their torture and could do so again at any time.
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BannedInBoston
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
09:33 PM on 10/31/2009
We're little lost sheep
Who have gone astray
Baaaa, baaaa, baaaa....
Doomed from here to eternity
Lord have mercy on such as we
Baaaa, baaaa, baaaa....

'The Wiffenpoof Song"
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PhilipTaylor
Legalized Bribery is an Oxymoron - must END
09:17 PM on 10/31/2009
AGAIN C1A PROVES TO BE A BRUTAL, UNETHICAL, INHUMANE AGENCY:

FBI interviewed naked, chained terror suspect (2002) struggling with CIA over treatment of prisoners.

As CIA used harsh interrogation techniques, FBI questioned legality of the methods.

FBI agents were ordered not to participate in harsh interrogations.

2002=FBI agent interviewed Binalshibh saying he got valuable information before CIA shut down questioning.

FBI officials said CIA "detainees were manacled to ceiling & subjected to blaring music around clock."

FBI agents were denied direct access to Binalshibh for four or five days.

FBI officials had serious misgivings about working with CIA in Binalshibh interrogation.

Still missing is transcript of Mueller's interview with investigators examining interrogation issues

Since 0bama started many closely held secrets of CIA's treatment of detainees have come to light.

0bama's order CIA to close network of secret overseas prisons and prohibited harsh interrogation.

Holder announced a criminal probe into abuse allegations of prisoners by CIA employees.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fred Hood
United we win divided we lose
10:48 PM on 10/31/2009
every time they do an internal investigation they find themselves not at fault...............maybe we need a second opinion ya think........
09:15 PM on 10/31/2009
The CIA and FBI are staffed with non-feeling sadists. Since

these are Government, Government officials in high place blessed this behavior.

They have stained our nation and the rest of the world will not forget!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fred Hood
United we win divided we lose
10:49 PM on 10/31/2009
our mercenary army backwater is neck and neck and gaining.......they are above all laws, thanks lawmakers for that one.......not
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lthuedk 1
Artist, Political Imagery
02:42 PM on 11/01/2009
Did you read the story? The F.B.I. intentionally refrained from crossing the line.

It was Shadow Government, Neo Conned-C.I.A. work. Why not get at the primary tumor, the Neo Cons and their moles, and maybe support the good guys, like Plame and Mueller ?

http://www.light-to-dark.com/a_retrospective.html