Health Care Provision Would Cover Christian Science Prayer Treatments

The Los Angeles Times:

Reporting from Washington - Backed by some of the most powerful members of the Senate, a little-noticed provision in the healthcare overhaul bill would require insurers to consider covering Christian Science prayer treatments as medical expenses.

The provision was inserted by Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) with the support of Democratic Sens. John F. Kerry and the late Edward M. Kennedy, both of Massachusetts, home to the headquarters of the Church of Christ, Scientist.

Read the whole story: The Los Angeles Times

Comments

[paleoimage]

I mentioned the Templeton Foundation's study - the only sizeable "double blind' scientific study which concluded that prayer has no real power in curing disease.

Poster "antiecairo disagrees with me stating "You need to read up on Christian Science - many documented cases where it has worked. It's not typical prayer "

So, here's a simple test anyone (even a CS practitioner) can take. Hack off your little finger and pray that it will reattach itself and be healed again. OR Hack off your little finger, throw it on ice and get yourself over to any major hospital and you'll find your chances of having that severed digit reattached and still functional are astonishingly good.
On the other hand, there are numerous, well documented cases of children of Christian Science practitioners dying over rather easily treated infections or correctable conditions. Given the option - I'll pass on the power of prayer.

[radcs]

I am a practicing Christian Scientist and my family has successfully relied on spiritual healing for five generations now. My intent in posting this comment is not to “pitch” my preferred system of healing to those who depend on other types of health care, but to explain why I feel it is important that there be a provision for spiritual healing in any forthcoming healthcare legislation.
It would seem fundamentally unfair for someone to be required to pay for insurance that does not cover the type of healthcare he or she utilizes. In a policy climate where some form of mandated universal coverage appears likely, it would only seem fair that anyone required to pay into a system would have coverage for the type of health care that they have found works best for them (without depriving anyone else of their choices). If the individual mandate to buy insurance does not provide for those who rely on qualifying spiritual care, they may receive no benefit for their premiums.
Regarding the question as to why Christian Science practitioners charge for prayer, it should be pointed out that the Christian Science practice is a full time ministry for these individuals (and they have made a formal committment not to divide their attention between their healing work and other types of employment).
Anyone interested in learning more about Christian Science healing may wish to check out the website www.ChristianScience.com.

[PartyPartyParty]

This just in:

"Long Awaited Medical Study Questions The Power of Prayer"

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

"Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested."

This was a exhaustive, ten-year study, by the way.

[PartyPartyParty]

So prayer isn't free anymore?

What are the billing rates? Can you negotiate discounts? What's the deductible? Is not being a Christian Scientist a pre-existing condition?

And most importantly: how much does a faith healer pay for malpractice insurance?

[roshni]

Then they should also cover shamans, curanderas and witch doctors.

[nopilikia]

Don't forget Voodoo. After all they already use it in economics policy making.

[PartyPartyParty]

And let's not forget the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The Pasta Cure.

[roshni]

Sure, why not. It's all about double dipping anyway.

[LeFlaneur]

Does that include the happy ending or will I have to pay for that out of pocket?

[MikeHermit]

Pay for Pray? I thought religions prayed as a matter of common practice, as a communion to their lord, as a private or public connection to their god. Not as a service requiring payment.

Are chruches now the equivalent to the airlines? Is there now going to be sacrament fees? Or seperate bread and water fees? What about a Pew Occupancy fee? Or is that covered under the General Admission fee? Blessings fees.

Man, you could make a killing nickle and diming people for their need to belive in some gibberish.

Just don't tax me for their belifs. The churches already get a tax exempt status. But I would be more then happy to revoke their tax exempt status to pay for their spiritual healing junk.

[jamie461]

You are not being "taxed" for this. Christian Scientists are not asking for anything for free. On the other hand, they may very likely be "required" to purchase health insurance for medical care that they do not use. All that is being required in this provision is that insurance companies CONSIDER covering Christian Science care.

There are a lot of misinformed people commenting on this subject.

[Opygollopy]

Churches should be made to pay taxes. All of them. They have been cleaning up for years laughing all the way to the bank. I hope Christian Scientists (an oxymoron anyway) have to buy medical insurance even if they do not use it. It would make up for the thievery they have access to by not paying taxes for years.

[chezverite]

Agreed.

I would go farther and say that much of what I've see here is not at all different from the prejudice and vitriol of the far right. Just a different topic..

[chezverite]

Repost.

jamie461.
'There are a lot of misinformed people commenting on this subject.'

Agreed.

I would go farther and say that much of what I've see here is not at all different from the prejudice and vitriol of the far right. Just a different topic..

[jamie461]

I am a former Christian Scientist. Before some of you get on your high horses about how "wrong" this is, keep in mind that Christian Scientists are also going to be "required" to have health insurance, which many of them do not have now, as they do not choose medical care for themselves. So if they are going to be required to buy it, why shouldn't their mode of treatment be covered? It's a fairness issue, and one that impacts just a relatively small group of people, who use very low-cost means for care.

And try to get clear on what the provision actually requires of the health insurance companies -- only that they CONSIDER offering covering for this treatment, NOT require them to cover it.

Many Christian Scientists are backing health care reform as necessary and compassionate for their neighbors and friends who do use medical care. A little more compassion for them in return would not be out of line. They are not asking for anything for free. Kudos to Kennedy, Kerry, and Hatch for seeing the fairness in this.

[MathIsTruth]

The determining factor should not be what "mode of treatment" a layman happens to believe in.

The determining factor should be whether a treatment has been shown to be safe and effective.

[jamie461]

Then let Christian Scientists opt-out of the requirement to purchase health insurance. If you are going to require them to purchase it, it is patently wrong to deny them coverage for the care they depend on.

[jamie461]

And truthfully, what medical care is "safe?" Any physician will tell you that EVERY medication has some toxicity to it. There is nothing in medicine that is "safe" - it is a matter of what is the lowest-risk treatment or the one that is least toxic.

[Tiger99]

OK then the people getting paid should have to carry the same malpractice insurance as the MDs do...

[PartyPartyParty]

So instead of passing true health care reform, i.e. single-payer, universal health care, with access to all, we should be satisfied with a health care industry bailout that tosses a bone to Christian Science?

[jmpurser]

Yeah. As soon as god writes out a receipt then we should consider paying it.

Until then this is bull.

[Mike949]

Without respect to the appropriateness of this provision of the health care legislation proposal, I have to question why those on the left blindly support a bill when they do not know what it includes. I am not throwing stones, I am putting forth that none of the representatives who support this bill know what is in it.

The bill is 1,990 pages, so assuming 5 minutes to read each page it would require 165.83 hours or about 6.91 days reading 24 hours a day.

Given this, how can anyone be criticized for not supporting this bill?

(I must give credit for the revealing mathematics to a writer to the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle)

[MathIsTruth]

The problem that you mention only exists for people who do not trust others to read the bill or parts of the bill and analyze and summarize what they've read.

I'm surprised that you've never heard of "divide and conquer".

[Tiger99]

Whenever I am confronted with the healing power of prayer to a loving god / spiritual healing argument I just respond with "St. Luke's Hospital"...

If there was a loving god there would be no kids to pray for healing in "St. Luke's" to heal...

Try spiritually healing a 7 year old child with advanced stages of leukemia to ease his suffering and then watch his suffering only ease when he dies...

I am offended that any Representative of our Govt. ( let alone Kennedy and Kerry) would even remotely consider giving credence to this backward thinking let alone reimburse it or make it a tax write off...

[Opygollopy]

Agreed. A friend who was prayed over for weeks is not crippled for life - she had lyme disease. If she would have been diagnosed and given heavy doses of antibiotics, she would be fine today. This praying over you cr@p is just that - cr@p. If a member of my family wanted to be prayed over and healed this way, I would say fine, let them do it on your hospital bed after a doctor has diagnosed you.

[Opygollopy]

My friend is -now - crippled for life. spelling error.

[mainlinegirl]

I am all for praying for the ill - I do it all the time (for free). BUT.....I don't think the government should be paying churches to do this. How much do you want to bet that the moment it is covered by insurance the "nominal" $20 fee will soon by $200.

[chezverite]

It is not the churches that are paid. They have nothing to do with it. It is individuals who chose to make their living helping others..

And, as far as I know, the fees have been pretty much the same for at least 40 years. And it was covered by most Insurance companies, as recently as 10 years ago. Didn't make a difference to the fees that I ever knew.

[jamie461]

You are correct. I have had several health insurance companies, including Blue Cross, who have covered Christian Science treatment. I pointed out in a post above that this is really a fairness issue, because Christian Scientists, like everyone else, would presumably be required to buy health coverage, even if they do not use medical care. It just seems fair that they should be covered.

Both of my former in-laws were Christian Science practitioners. Through their long careers, I do not believe either of them ever charged more than $20 for a single treatment. Most practitioners I know now charge not much more than that. They have done a much better job of keeping costs down than the medical world has.

I say all of this as a former Christian Scientist, with many friends and some family still in the church. I can say this much: they would not be as harsh or as cruel as many of the negative posters on this story have been to them.

[janha]

Medicine is science. Religion is not science. This is appalling.

[el sistema]

Religion (Christian Science) is a pseudo-science. They don't stick to any scientific methodology of research and evidence. They believe they have all the answers and live by faith which negates questioning and critical thinking.

[liberalNmoderation]

It's akin to cryptozoology, but not as cool...and cryptozoology ain't really all that cool.

[chezverite]

I wonder how many of the posters here know anything at all about Christian Science.

I have no position yet on this provision, since it's the first I've heard of it, but I do know that the reason there are exemptions for this group is that it is extremely effective. Healings are verified by witnesses. A large percentage of those by the medical community itself. I have family members who are alive because of it.

Makes me wonder how much ignorance has become the standard for the discourse in this country.

[Rand]

Read Mark Twain's "Christian Science"

He claims that Mary Baker Eddy is one of history's worst mass-murderers due the number of her adherents who died of easily treatable illnesses and injuries

[chezverite]

I have. It is the saddest book ever, written by a man reeling from grief and angry with God..

Interesting that while he attacks Mrs Eddy personally, he speaks warmly of Christian Science itself.

[jamie461]

I have read Mr. Twain's book as well. He greatly modified that antagonism later on, according to his biographer, Albert Paine, who related this story:

"I was at this period interested a good deal in mental healing, and had been treated for neurasthenia with gratifying results. Like most of the world, I had assumed, from his published articles, that he condemned Christian Science and its related practices out of hand. When I confessed, rather reluctantly, one day, the benefit I had received, he surprised me by answering:

'Of course you have been benefited. Christian Science is humanity's boon. Mother Eddy deserves a place in the Trinity as much as any member of it. She has organized and made available a healing principle that for two thousand years has never been employed, except as the merest kind of guesswork. She is the benefactor of the age.'

It seemed strange, at the time, to hear him speak in this way concerning a practice of which he was generally regarded as the chief public antagonist. It was another angle of his many-sided character."

[KIVPossum]

I have no doubt a person's faith in their treatment makes a huge difference in their health or recovery. Christian Science may very well help people who believe in it. Just as some might be healed by tribal medicine or a shaman. I know some people here still visit a шарлатан, which transliterates perfectly to my opinion of them - charlatan.

[el sistema]

How does faith make a difference in recovery?

[hoobit]

chezverite ~ for a treatment of a disease, illness, and/or medical condition to be considered effective, *more* than anecdotal evidence and/or 'testimonials' from unverified­/unverifya­ble sources is needed.

Curing skin cancer by wishing on a star might be anecdotally cited; testimonials might abound about how well star-wishing works to cure skin cancer. Without *empirical proof* of the efficacy of that 'treatment', though, all wishing on a star is, is wishing on a star. Wishing on a star has NOT been shown -let alone proven- to be the least bit scientifically and/or medically effective...for anything.

Anecdotal "evidence" and/or random "testimonials" of a medical treatment's efficacy aren't worth the paper they are written on.

[chezverite]

I agree with you, up to a point. I do agree that proof is necessary. I don't think that the testimony of family members and friends who witness a turnaround in health can be entirely dismissed.

However as mentioned in the original post, there is medical testimony as well. We have two people in our family, with verified medical diagnoses, who chose Christian Science. They were examined by both the same and different doctors afterwards. No trace of their diseases could be found.

You can try and dismiss the results as fanciful if you like. In our family, we don't.

[chedet]

That wouldn't be fair would it? How about other religions?

[Tiger99]

Just what I was thinking... The ACLU will soon be representing VooDoo and every religion who claims "witch doctors" for equality under the law...