Tea Party's Next Target: The Climate Bill

Mother Jones:

The Tea Party movement earned its stripes at town hall protests this summer by claiming that Democratic health care reform efforts would result in defenseless grannies being hauled before "death panels." Now the tea partiers have a new target--the cap-and-trade legislation moving through Congress--and new, unlikely victims to protect--the poor.

One of the key recruiting tools in conservative activists' push against the climate bill is a recent documentary called Not Evil, Just Wrong. The film styles itself as the latest conservative answer to Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth...

Read the whole story: Mother Jones

Comments

[FormerReaganite]

Denialists can refute anthropogenic global warming all they want, but the facts are that the human contribution is abundant. And the second-most significant causation is black carbon soot, which originates from combustion of diesel and coal.

Even Senator Inhofe acknowledges this fact.

Aerosols May Drive a Significant Portion of Arctic Warming
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/warming_aerosols.html

Role of Black Carbon on Global and Regional Climate Change (PDF file)
V. Ramanathan, Scripps Institution of Oceanography
University of California at San Diego

http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20071018110734.pdf

[fumes]

soot works..

it's that trace gas CO2 that doesn't.

[FormerReaganite]

Not so fast. You're not getting away with "CO2 has nothing to do with..."

Nice try, though.

Let us just say the topic is still open to study.

[FormerReaganite]

US climate change denier James Inhofe joins Al Gore in fight against soot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/05/inhofe-black-carbon-bill

[guinganbresil]

Diversion! If black soot is the problem then address black soot. CO2 is not the problem! Cap-n-trade legislation based on CO2 will not help anything if CO2 is not the problem!

Unfortunately too many people think it is better to the wrong thing and eviserate our economy if our INTENTIONS were good.

The catastrophic projections made by the IPCC that require immediate and precipitous action are based on CO2 (which is wrong, see below...) If black soot is the culprit, the projections are all invalid AND our response to the problem might be far different.

For instance, would it help the black soot problem for the US to reduce CO2 emissions, drive our industry to China and the third world where their energy generation is less regulated and lower tech? That would INCREASE production of black soot making the problem worse!

[lbsaltzman]

Where did you ever get the idea that CO2 is not the problem. It is the problem and that is incontrovertable. The greenhouse effect of given amount of Co2 introduced into the atmosphere has been known since the mid 19th century when the basic principles of greenhouse gases was worked out. This is all elementary radiative physics and the fact that some Americans don't understand this speaks to the terrible level of scientific illiteracy in this country.

[guinganbresil]

Sorry to disappoint you. I understand the greenhouse effect and understand that it contributes to a warmer planet. The question is whether a FURTHER INCREASE in CO2 causes an actual increase in global temperatures.

The "elementary radiative physics" you refer to can be summarized: Increasing CO2 concentration causes less outgoing long wave radiation. Less outgoing radiation results in warming.

The scientific illiteracy comes into play when you look at the actual data. CO2 is going up. TOTAL outgoing longwave radiation is going UP. Even though the CO2 15 µm absorption band is showing a measurable decrease, the TOTAL is outgoing long wave radiation is going up. The increasing CO2 concentration cannot be causing the warming we have seen if the outgoing long wave radiation has been going up.

[MitchelleWS]

Nothing will make these people happy. They are perpetually angry, and it will just be the next news story/news cycle that provides new fuel for their anger. Could be climate bill, the census, or something we haven't even thought of yet.

Honestly, they are apoplectic over the possibility of 36 million uninsured Americans receiving health care insurance. And they don't understand that the cost of uncompensated care is one of the main reasons for the steep increase in their own personal insurance premiums.

To pretend that it is about a ballooning deficit is dishonest, because if that was a case the moment Bill Clinton's surplus turned into George Bush's deficit, they should've been out in the streets. But they weren't.

[goodspkr]

Nah, it's the wild spending coupled with policies that will bring down the American economy that the Tea Parties are protesting.

You said, "they don't understand that the cost of uncompensated care is one of the main reasons for the steep increase in their own personal insurance premiums." That and the fact that Medicare doesn't pay the going rate and that loss of revenue is made up on private insurance. This will only get worse with more government health care programs.

Okay, so what do you think the House bill will do?

A. Reduce the cost of insurance.
B. Increase the cost of insurance
C. Run totally out of control, increasing the cost of insurance, devaluing the dollar, and add one more entitlement that will bankrupt the country.

As for your Bill Clinton surplus, I do believe it was a republican congress that got the surplus (the president proposes, the congress disposes). And perhaps more people should have been protesting the deficit spending by Bush, but come on libs, Obama has set the world's record for spending and plans to continue to spend at least 50% more than Bush did in his worst year.

This spending will drive the Dems out of power. They lose the house next year and the presidency and the Senate in 2012.

[guinganbresil]

Please take a look at the graph. There is a difference between GWB's deficit and BHO's deficit. I am not defending GWB's fiscal malfeasance, but Obama's is BEYOND THE PALE.

http://www.solitudeholdings.com/images/deficit_obama.png

[fumes]

oops..
November 10, 2009
New data show that the balance between the airborne and the absorbed fraction of CO2 has stayed approximately constant since 1850, despite emissions of CO2 having risen from about 2 billion tons a year in 1850 to 35 billion tons a year now.
This suggests that terrestrial ecosystems and the oceans have a much greater capacity to absorb CO2 than had been previously expected.
The results run contrary to a significant body of recent research which expects that the capacity of terrestrial ecosystems and the oceans to absorb CO2 should start to diminish as CO2 emissions increase, letting greenhouse gas levels skyrocket. Dr Wolfgang Knorr at the University of Bristol found that in fact the trend in the airborne fraction since 1850 has only been 0.7 ± 1.4% per decade, which is essentially zero.
The strength of the new study, published online in Geophysical Research Letters, is that it rests solely on measurements and statistical data, including historical records extracted from Antarctic ice, and does not rely on computations with complex climate models.
This work is extremely important for climate change policy, because emission targets to be negotiated at the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen early next month have been based on projections that have a carbon free sink of already factored in.
Another result of the study is that emissions from deforestation might have been overestimated by between 18 and 75 per cent. http://www.physorg.com/news177059550.html

[FormerReaganite]

Where were the "teabaggers" when the Space Program was putting a man on the moon, in the 1960s? Was THAT was a waste of money too?

[ohiomark]

Man made global warming is a hoax and all the variations of it such as "man made climate change" are just vehicles for governments to tax and regulate us more and more.

The tea parties will continue as long as politicians and governments continue to steal our money and bankrupt our nation.

[FormerReaganite]

"Man made global warming is a hoax "

Provide proof, please.

[guinganbresil]

It is claimed that increasing CO2 due to man is reducing the outgoing long wave radiation (at 15 um) and thus the Earth is radiating less energy, thus it is heating up.

Satellites have measured the outgoing radiation and the increased absorption at 15 um has been confirmed; HOWEVER, the total long wave radiation has INCREASED. The Earth's energy balance is a function of the TOTAL outgoing and incoming radiation. If the outgoing radiation is increasing and not decreasing, then the assertion that CO2 is causing warming is FALSE.

I don't know for sure if it is a hoax, or a scam or just an error - but it is definately false.

[guinganbresil]

I am not making this up. Check out this pro-AGW paper. The paper says one thing, but the data says something else. Look at figure 3c. You will see the measured data (black) is mostly showing increases in outgoing long wave, the models are negative...

http://www.nerc-essc.ac.uk/~rpa/PAPERS/Brindley_Allan2003.pdf

[guinganbresil]

Here is another one (also pro AGW) showing the same thing (again on figure 3):

http://www.eumetsat.eu/Home/Main/Publications/Conference_and_Workshop_Proceedings/groups/cps/documents/document/pdf_conf_p50_s9_01_harries_v.pdf

[guinganbresil]

Oooh - Here is another one... Figure 2:

http://www.ggy.bris.ac.uk/personal/JennyGriggs/paper_4.pdf

[guinganbresil]

Here is a plot of Outgoing Long Wave over time 1990 to present - look at the trend - UP.

http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/CDB/Tropics/figt1.gif

[DaveyDavey]

"The Tea Party movement earned its stripes..."

They earned their stripes, all right - big, yellow stripes right down their backs. Afraid to talk about any real issues because they know they're on the wrong side, they had to invent a lot of cråp.

The Teabaggers protested against health reform in such a disgraceful that they all but discredited the entire Republican Party. And health reform is well on its way to passage. Maybe they'll do us a similar favor over the climate bill, and finish off the GOP for good.

[Dissident Dexter]

I completely support the "MORANS" in anything they do. If they don't like it, it's got to be good for everybody else.

[goodspkr]

DD, you need to read more. It seems the unaffiliated voter is going conservative. That is what caused the huge flip in Virginia and New Jersey. They are the key to the election and rather than finishing off the GOP for good, the Dems may see themselves out in the wilderness again very shortly.

[lvdragonlady]

Wake up America, the GOP and the teabaggers do NOT care are America, her people or ANYTHING to improve the world, especially when it will hurt their wallets.

[FormerReaganite]

They think all that America is about is *making money.*

[deezus]

Artificially increasing the price of energy will not lead us to use less energy or even cleaner energy, it will just lead us to wasting money for nothing.

[DaveyDavey]

Jeezus, deezus. Have you even made an effort to understand the issue?

[deezus]

I have. Thanks for asking!

[rileymon]

noaa just reported 3rd coldest october on record in 20th century thats the last one hundred years
you cannot tax your way into prosperity third world nations will do whatever it takes to survive cut down trees, burn coal . eat meat and prosper

[FormerReaganite]

Two very important reasons we are not "cooking" yet:
http://burningissues.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2415#p7558

[dvorak]

For some reason, these people don't make me nervous anymore. They really are digging their own grave.

[FormerReaganite]

They act and think like zombies anyway.

[nicole473]

Groucho Marx, with a minor paraphrase:

"
I don't know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it.

Your proposition may be good,
But let's have one thing understood,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
I'm against it.

I'm opposed to it,
On general principle, I'm opposed to it.

[chorus] He's opposed to it.
In fact, indeed, that he's opposed to it!

For years before the planet d*ied,
I used to yell until I cried,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And I've kept yelling since I first commenced it,
I'm against it!

[DaveyDavey]

That's it! Republicans are Marxists!

[dantanna]

they won on health care sure democrats will bend on climate change as well - hell they only own the two houses in congress and the WH - who would win anything with that

[9liberal]

Again they prove this whole pro-life thing means nothing. If they cared about it, they would care that there is a planet that can keep producing and holding all this life.

[angelrubes]

They believe that the world is going to end in 2012. They are those crazy Coast to Coast groupies.

[dfranz]

There are still people claiming the world is flat and that the Apollo Moon walk was done in a Hollywood studio.

I call those people irrelevant rubes

[FormerReaganite]

"Teabaggers" are a good example of what happens when people drop out of school and remain ignorant of how the real world is. How many college-educated professionals were there in those crowds, vs the "barely-sq­ueaked-thr­ough-high-­school" Beckmeisters?