Does The Flu Vaccine Matter?

The Atlantic:

Vaccination is central to the government's plan for preventing deaths from swine flu. But what if everything we think we know about fighting influenza is wrong?

Read the whole story: The Atlantic

Comments

[mofmars333]

Expert Pediatrician Exposes Vaccine Myths

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/14/Expert-Pediatrician-Exposes-Vaccine-Myths.aspx

[mofmars333]

What the Inventor of the Flu Shot NOW Thinks of the Vaccine...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/17/Obama-Administration-Launches-Deceptive-Swine-Flu-Propaganda-Blitz.aspx

[Sheldon101]

Hey mofmars333, if you just look on the right side of my comment, you'll see a picture of the man, who more than anyone else, developed influenza vaccine in WW2. For more details, look at my profile.

Here's a link to the story of the man who actually said something similar to this in the 1970s.

http://sacredcowwursthaus.blogspot.com/

------------------
Flu vaccination: Safe, effective and oh so morally correct. It's the natural way to fight off infection.
I got vaccinated today. A redacted image of my certificate is at www.vaccineswork.blogspot.com

[mofmars333]

Here's a good read that will help people learn & decide whether or not to take the shot.

With many people asking questions, here's a compiled list of those frequently asked along with some less frequently asked.

This article will help the reader to make an informed decision about the risks and benefits of getting vaccinated."

http://www.thevaccination.com/article/2/Should-I-get-the-new-H1N1-vaccine.html

[mofmars333]

Are Vaccine Mandates Good Or Bad For Public Health? Debate At U.T.

http://www.blip.tv/file/2839117

[mofmars333]

Notice the guy in this historical debate who represents the government's stance on the claim all vaccines, like flu, are safe.

When he introduces his colleagues who attended with him he calls them his "partners in crime"

I don't believe he was kidding.

What would we do without good people like Dr. Tennpenny & her associate Dawn on this debate panel? Thank goodness for the likes of them telling it like it is.

[RDH1-32]

I had a debilitating allergic reaction to a flu shot about 12 years ago. Fever of 102-104 for 2 days and my arm swelled to double its normal size. I had always got flu shots, because I worked in healthcare and felt I owed my patients not to spread the flu to them if I got it.

I haven't had a flu shot in the subsequent 12 years from fear of an anaphylactic response to something in the vaccine; and I have had only 2 mild cases of a flu-like illness.

I'm not presenting this as "evidence" or such. Just relating one person's "anecdotal" experience. Oh and not advising others in their decision - mine was based on an actual adverse reaction to 'something' in the vaccine (the medium or the active ingredient, who knows?), my decision was not based on the issues discussed in this article.

[drricklippin]

I know the authors of this important article and they are excellent prize winning health journalists who do very thorough and careful story homework.

Take what they say VERY seriously

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

[Josephius]

You may want to take the time to read this as well.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2495

[drricklippin]

FACT- Generally Influenza is a self limiting non fatal disease with no permant sequela.

The 35,000 annual "deaths" from seasonal flu is a CDC estimate and is usually in the frail and elderly by CDC's own admission. Flu is contributory here -not causal.

Constantly bringing up the "inevitability" of 1918-20 pandemic is not useful. This was a pre-antibiotic era. And many people died then of secondary bacterial infection

I always ask my patients "have you ever met anyone who died of the flu?"

Dr. Rick Lippin
Spouthampton,Pa

[TheIndependenceParty]

As we know, ... the Flu Viruses that can infect us are myriad, ... or at least multiple. The vaccines we use against the advent of the flu differ from the vaccine models employed against Smallpox or Polio. Those are more highly specific immunologically, and eradication was possible. They did not mutate as we set out to vaccinate the world's population against them.

Strains of Flu differ just enough that they can, at least for now, evade vaccines which are not specific to their strain. They are also Inter-Special in their hosts. That is, they can cross from species of mammals, to birds, to mammals, and so forth. The practice of vaccination against such variable viruses is relatively new in evolutionary terms and cycles. The immunology in support of the epidemiology of such vaccines has a history of only a couple decades, it seems to me.

One question that should be asked before submitting repeated generations of recipients to repeated vaccinations, is whether we are creating a "super-host" phenomenon where the viruses to which we are all exposed, resolve into ever stronger strains when they infect, even subacutely, those of us who are routinely vaccinated, ... specifically healthcare workers.

[Sheldon101]

No.

Flu vaccination: Safe, effective and the right thing to do. Jefferson's concerns about the elderly are likely to become irrelevant as better vaccines are used.

[TheIndependenceParty]

I have been an advocate of flu vaccines, ... have had secondary pneumonia twice in the last ten years, shared the flu with my daughter, who died of side effects from the antibiotic we both took for pneumonia, ... and am a microbiologist by training.

The numbers cited here caused me to pause. I will research them further to be sure, and would not advocate against proceeding with vaccination against H1N1 among the young in particular. Time is too short, and nothing in the numbers seems to indicate a particular statistical risk of the vaccines, ... but don't point to a particular benefit or "efficacy" either.

As for the argument that the flu viruses are possibly becoming more severe, or lethal in their affect, ... I am highly suspect of such arguments coming from "scientists". Without a reason or a cause, it is purely hypothetical, ... and borders on "magical" thinking. I would suggest that there is even a possibility that the vaccination against influenza may in and of itself select for more virulent forms to emerge in the cycle that constitutes the "pattern" immunologists use to determine next year's flavor of flu vaccine. That possibility needs to be explored as well.

[PumaJ]

The authors discuss commentary by Dr. Jefferson, but they leave out this: "Best effectiveness of current vaccines in preventing clinical illness and its complications was seen in long-term care facilities where vaccines prevented about 45% of pneumonia cases, hospital admissions and influenza-related deaths. This compared to about 25% vaccine efficacy in preventing hospitalisation from influenza or respiratory illness in open community settings. The public health safety profile of the vaccines appears to be acceptable". http://www.mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD004876/frame.html

From Dr. Jackson's work, they neglect this: "If you think that because of her work on seasonal vaccine, she wouldn't believe the new H1N1 could play any role in helping the elderly through the flu season, you'd be wrong. She told me 'once the younger people who are more at risk of getting the flu in the first place are vaccinated, older people should get in line' ".
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/11/how_well_does_the_h1n1_vaccine.html?ft=1&f=103537970

They leave out research on "herd immunity":
http://www.ifpma.org/influenza/index.aspx?28

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pubmed/15534315?log$=activity

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4DPGSWX-1&_user=8537454&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1083489653&_rerunOrigin=
scholar.go­ogle&_acct­=C00005022­1&_version­=1&_urlVer­sion=0&_us­erid=85374­54&md5=536­839ab8aead­ef593b5d69­6abcbfa8e

More :
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/10/journalists_sink_in_the_atlant.php

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/10/when_methodolatry_strikes_over_h1n1_influenza.php

[PumaJ]

Hmm.. that Science Direct link didn't work. Try this instead:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2004.09.025

[TheIndependenceParty]

Thanks, PJ. I will be checking the sources and appreciate your supplying links!

[vincealy]

Talk about leave out from the link you cited.
In homes for elderly individuals (with good vaccine match and high viral circulation) the effectiveness of vaccines against ILI was 23% (6% to 36%) and non-significant against influenza (RR 1.04: 95% CI 0.43 to 2.51).....
........In elderly individuals living in the community, vaccines were not significantly effective against influenza .....
.....Authors' conclusions
In long-term care facilities, where vaccination is most effective against complications, the aims of the vaccination campaign are fulfilled, at least in part. However, according to reliable evidence the usefulness of vaccines in the community is modest. The apparent high effectiveness of the vaccines in preventing death from all causes may reflect a baseline imbalance in health status and other systematic differences in the two groups of participants..

[Dice Klay]

its JUST a flu. Last year was Avian flu, the year before that SARS. Its just the news creating fear and anxiety to sell news. Do you like living in a society of fear?

It doesnt even occur to you that you dont have to live with so much misery, depression, and hostility that comes with fear. you can rise up and destroy the news corporations. or you can just give up and allow the rich to profit from your pain.

[vippy]

Why are people ignoring the military laboratories who create all kind of stuff, like bird flu, SARS,
West Nile Virus, who can be traced up the west coast where it escaped, etc. Remember the
horrible anthrax vaccine, where soldiers had to take it and so many illnesses put the person out of commission. Do not trust the government and the corporations.

[Sheldon101]

I guess their aren't enough people getting sick, hospitalized, on respirators and dying for you to take it seriously.

Here are some real people who, if we could turn back the clock and they were vaccinated would be alive today. Explain this whole fear bit to their loved ones.

Aubrey Opdyke
West Palm Beach, Florida
And, most important, she lost her baby. Parker Christine Opdyke, almost 27 weeks in the womb, was delivered by emergency Caesarean section on July 18, when her fetal heart rate plummeted during Ms. Opdyke’s third lung collapse. Her airways were too blocked to let a breathing tube in, possibly a side effect of the drugs saving her mother. She lived seven minutes. And though Parker didn't survive, her mother has.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20pregnant.html

Ashlie Pipkin
Sumter, South Carolina
The official cause of death for Ashlie Pipkin, 11, is pneumonia...H1N1 virus, commonly referred to as swine flu, was the underlying factor.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/976050.html

Mary Terry
Mempthis, Tennessee
Memphis, TN - 12 year-old Mary Gwendolyn "Gwen" Terry passed away Wednesday, September 23, 2009 from complications of H1N1, otherwise known as the swine flu. ..Terry had underlying health issues. Terry's obituary mentions she was a graduate of the special education program at Kingsbury Elementary School and attended Shrine School
http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/mostpopular/story/12-Year-Old-Memphis-Girl-Dies-From-Swine-Flu/35frI8Zys0CK-WlBGdtPdg.cspx

[Dice Klay]

shoulda coulda woulda. its not worth the society living in fear. Fear leads to paranoia,racism, hostility, grouchiness, and republicanism. And we all know how many deaths republicanism leads to. so its a better tradeoff. less fear equals less death.

[MicheleCA]

Everyone should read this. Great article!

[ddanimal]

This is an absolutely fantastic article. This is why I never ever get the flu shot, or take the ridiculous, unproven flu medications, or any other medications, for that matter.

Drug company profits encourage this bad science, and discourage real science to answer the question of effectiveness.

There are effecgive therapies for flu, that are proven in controlled trials: vitamin D and vitamin C. The science demonstrating the effectiveness of these options is much better than the science that has been done for vaccines. But vaccines are where the money is being made, so thats where all the marketing hype and advertising is directed.

And thats a VERY common theme in medicine: the most popular and widely used therapies are the ones that are most profitable (regardless of what the science says), because those are the onyl therapies for which there is an advertising budget. This is true no matter what the science says.

There is little money to advertise natural therapies with a low profit margin.

[BunnyX]

So many errors, where to even start..... We'll start with the completely false idea that vaccines are where the money is. It's the opposite, which is why we have to import our vaccines from other countries. Nobody in this country is making them, because they are NOT profitable. On the rare occasion when some are produced here, it's because the government twisted someone's arm to get it done. The only one that even remotely has a profit margin in the shingles vaccine, the others have virtually none.

As far as your 'proven' therapies for flu, there is some evidence that vitamin D helps immune systems ward off the flu, but there is no evidence that it helps once someone has the flu. The whole vitamin C thing is disproven and has been for years - vitamin C does little or nothing. If you have some links to good peer-reviewed studies (not the usual poor science done to 'prove' that natural remedies work) I challenge you to post them, because frankly, I don't believe they exist.

Lastly - did you even read the article? It doesn't say that flu shots don't work, indeed it says the opposite, except for the elderly, who don't seem to get much benefit. It's not about whether the shots work, but about whether it reduces the mortality level. I don't want the flu, even though it won't kill me. I don't want to be sick, period. Flu shots help prevent that.

[vippy]

I can attest to the Vitamin C and zinc theory. Have been taken it faithfully for the last 30 years. Once I tried to get sick and I exposed myself to the cold all night just so I could call out in the morning and nothing. My body was immune to it. Vitamins are essential,
they are nutrients to the body, like fuel to the car. Too many examples of absence of a certain vitamin and its dire consequences, like scorbut, cleft pallet in babies, no brain in infants, etc. all attest to a severe shortage.

[vincealy]

At one time when vaccine makers where held liable for the damage their product caused no one here would manufacture vaccines. Now that complete liability protection has been granted vaccines are " a sure bet' Profit here's an interesting story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jul/22/glaxosmithkline-swine-flu-vaccine

[ddanimal]

I dont disagree that the vaccine prevents flu in some people. But the main selling point for the vaccine is that it prevents mortality, and this is the point that it debated in the article. As far as the usefulness of preventing the flu, I submit that this is also in doubt considering that flu shots have their own risks of serious and even fatal effects and certain exposure to toxic chemicals.

What is the benefit of a flu shot when one must take on the risk of Guillain-Barre (and other dangers) and certain exposure to mercury, aluminum, and preservatives used in vaccines? Does the benefit really outweigh the dangers?

And what is the point in getting a flu shot, when vitamins D and C have been proven to prevent the flu, without the dangerous side effects and while providing other benefits instead of dangers?

And BTW, your statements about vitamin C are absolutely wrong. see my citation below, and the book by Levy especially.

I also would argue that there is precious little difference between vitamin D preventing the flu, and curing it once one is sick. Studies on the former are unequivocal and show strong results; studies on the latter I am not aware of, but advice from experienced people, and my own experience indicate that it works.

[letsmakesense]

Great post.
To see how bad our future looks please Google Codex Alimentarus, international trade agreement which cause vit C and D to be perscripcion only drugs in 6 weeks.

[PumaJ]

So, what are your resources regarding the efficacy of vitamin C as a therapy for influenza? From what I've seen, its efficacy hasn't been proven: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2004.09.025
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminc.asp

[ddanimal]

Mainly, two books:

"Vitamin C, the Common Cold, and the Flu" by Linus Pauling, 1976
"Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins" by Levy, 2002

These books reference many studies on vitamin C. Usually, negative results are caused by using doses that are too low. See below.

[ddanimal]

J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.

Gorton HC, Jarvis K.

BACKGROUND: An ever increasing demand to evaluate the effect of dietary supplements on specific health conditions by use of a "significant scientific" standard has prompted the publication of this study. OBJECTIVE: To study the effect of megadose Vitamin C in preventing and relieving cold and flu symptoms in a test group compared with a control group. DESIGN: Prospective, controlled study of students in a technical training facility. SUBJECTS: A total of 463 students ranging in age from 18 to 32 years made up the control group. A total of 252 students ranging in age from 18 to 30 years made up the experimental or test group. METHOD: Investigators tracked the number of reports of cold and flu symptoms among the 1991 test population of the facility compared with the reports of like symptoms among the 1990 control population. Those in the control population reporting symptoms were treated with pain relievers and decongestants, whereas those in the test population reporting symptoms were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin C for the first 6 hours and then 3 times daily thereafter. Those not reporting symptoms in the test group were also administered 1000-mg doses 3 times daily.

[ddanimal]

RESULTS: Overall, reported flu and cold symptoms in the test group decreased 85% compared with the control group after the administration of megadose Vitamin C. CONCLUSION: Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with the control group.

[jdrourke]

Good article. Seems to me (and more than a few others) that our media's attention has actually been more harmful through its hype.

http://jdrourke.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/im-talkn-to-you-swine-flu/

[EliminateVariables]

the flu vaccine never mattered til they took out Mercury in Childhood vaccination programs in 2004 and instead mandated it in pregnant woman and infants 6-23 months for the first time in history. This does essentially keep Autism steadily spiking and since 2004 child hood mortality rates have increased.

Flu shot has no empirical evidence it works...there is none unless you believe the garbage study recently put out from Bangledash...yes thats right..bangledash that shows that vaccinated woman have babies that are healthier and have higher birthrates that none vaccinated...I mean come on.

Typically pro vaxers call anti or pro safety vaxers delusional and followers of junk science...well if you are to talk about junk science look no further than the all the CDC and IOM papers on Thimerasol and the majority of papers on Vaccine safety and efficacy. All flawed and would not hold up in court.


A- the flu vaccine is useless
B-you get mercury for no reason

Perspective:

drinking water 2 ppb - undrinkable
toxic waste 200 ppb hazmat responce
fish 730-1450 unedible
Vaccines 50,000 ppb

do the math.

[BunnyX]

There are two facets to the flu vaccine - public health and personal health. On the personal level, flu hits me like a freight train. I doubt I am in any danger from it, but I am sick as a dog for a week and so exhausted I can barely function for nearly a month.

In the years when I get a flu shot, I don't get the flu. In the years when I don't, it's 50/50. It's well worth it to me to get a flu shot and save myself using all my PTO on sick time instead of vacation, and feeling too tired to enjoy life for a month.

It's also worthwhile to me to know that I won't be passing it along to any seniors or children that might have a worse time with it than I do.

They can wrangle all they like about whether it saves lives on the public health level. For individuals, they may want to consider the impact on their personal lives and the lives of people around them, and make their decision based on that.

[ddanimal]

Take 100,000 IU of vitamin D3.

[BunnyX]

That amount is dangerous, possibly toxic. Fortunately, I have enough sense not to take your advice, but to anyone else reading this, don't EVER take that much vitamin D.