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Dean: Dems 'In Deep Trouble' On Health Care, The Only Options Are A Bad Bill Or 2010 Losses

First Posted: 03/18/10 06:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 03:45 PM ET

Dean

One of the leading progressive champions of health care reform is pessimistic about the state of the debate in the Senate, saying he sees virtually no path to passing strong legislation and predicting potential congressional losses for Democrats as a consequence.

Former DNC Chair Howard Dean told the Huffington Post on Monday that Senate Democratic leadership was "in deep trouble" on health care, even after Majority Leader Harry Reid cobbled together over the weekend the 60 votes needed to get legislation to the floor. The problem was as much about politics as policy.

"I think if you passed the Senate bill tomorrow it would be OK. But then the problem is they don't have any defense for their members in 2010," Dean said, noting that the public option would not become operational until 2014. "On the other hand, if they drop the public option [to placate moderate members], I think they lose seats."

"So this is really tough. I didn't anticipate being in this position. I thought it would pass. Maybe Harry has some magic up his sleeve. But I don't see how he gets those four votes [Sens. Joseph Lieberman (Conn.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Blanche Lincoln (Ark.) and Ben Nelson (Neb.)] without compromising the bill," Dean concluded.

The former Vermont governor warned that if the party allowed the four moderates to further water down the bill (or defeat it altogether) it could lead to primary challenges or a drop in fundraising from the party's base.

"If you have members refusing to vote for Reid on procedural issues you will have a revolt in the party," Dean said. "What is the point of having a 60-vote margin? This is going to be death for the [Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee] and the [Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee]. Why would anyone donate to them if they're supporting candidates who defeat the Democratic agenda?"

There was, he insisted, an out clause. Reconciliation -- the budgetary maneuver that would allow portions of reform to be considered by an up or down vote -- "looks better every time," Dean said. "Someone has to say, at some point, we need to pass a bill." Reid has hinted that reconciliation is an increasingly unlikely proposition.

One of the loudest champions of a public plan, Dean has rarely expressed such pessimism about the state of play in the Senate. But even aides on the Hill admit that the path forward to gathering the 60 votes needed to stop a Republican filibuster is immensely challenging.

That said, Dean wasn't ready to read health care reform its final rites. And others who work on the progressive side of the debate said they are more bullish about the prospects of passing strong legislation. Richard Kirsch, national campaign manager for Health Care for America Now, said he noted that progressives in the Senate have been remarkably united in asserting their positions to Reid and indicating "that they won't be rolled by their more conservative members."

"Reconciliation is one of those things that is always there," Kirsch added. "It might not be the topic of conversation now. But it might go that way if four senators decide to wag the tail of the dog."

Celinda Lake, a Democratic pollster who has worked with HCAN and others on health care reform, was similarly upbeat. The goal, she said, was to keep the ball moving, pass legislation out of the Senate and then improve on its policy prescriptions once in conference committee with the House.

"The issue is to ensure that something is decent," said Lake. "I think the other thing is we need the president to weigh in, and I suspect he will weigh in very heavily in the conference committee."


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One of the leading progressive champions of health care reform is pessimistic about the state of the debate in the Senate, saying he sees virtually no path to passing strong legislation and predicting...
One of the leading progressive champions of health care reform is pessimistic about the state of the debate in the Senate, saying he sees virtually no path to passing strong legislation and predicting...
 
 
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RTIII
Poster of over 0.0135% of all HufPost comments
11:16 AM on 11/26/2009
The real problem here is that Obama has learned the wrong lessons from "HillaryCare" - or maybe learned the lessons too well. Either way, he is being tone-deaf to his base.

This really is all about Obama's leadership or lack thereof. He _could_ be championing this and telling Dems, "get with the program or we're going to get it in the shorts next year!" Then, if it goes badly, he can and should single out the bum players, identify suitable replacements and use his star power to help remove them in the primaries.
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12:45 AM on 11/26/2009
We need to do the reconcile thing. 51 votes to pass health care is all we need. The religious zealots accept it when they ban our right to get married, so it is more than enough votes to pass health care!
11:30 AM on 11/25/2009
Dean does what the AFL-CIO tells him to do.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Eric Strickland
Craftsman
09:28 AM on 11/25/2009
It's time to weed the Democratic Party of DLC and Blue Dog Conservatives. Two parties both representing the same ideals is getting us nowhere. Return the Democratic Party to an advocate of the people, and let the Republicans continue to represent their Corporate masters and the fundie haters.
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MalleusMaleficarum
Global nomad.
02:24 PM on 11/25/2009
Agreed. The DLC and Blue Dogs are not Democrats. They are a Republican incursion into a party they would never support. This Congress would not pass the Civil Rights Act of 1965 nor the Voting Rights Act of 1965 - much less the ERA. The Clinton Era is a misnomer; it was a rebranding of the Reagan Era.
04:32 AM on 11/25/2009
Has anyone asked Lieberman,
how he can support USA's subsidy
of Israel's PUBLIC health care system
and oppose same for Americans?
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Its all about getting revenge on the democrats for not supporting
his "independent" candidacay instead of the party nominee, Ned Lamont.
joe is bitter. He also loves being in the position of playing God
in the Senate. His vote in the senate is like anthony kennedy's
vote onthe scotus. It decides
whether something hotly contested
passes or fails-and the dems cant do anything to him.

He's not up for re election for a long while, so he fears no one or no thing
and he will switch parties if they hurt his feelings, then Obama
couldn;t get a single judge or scotus nominee confirmed, as the gop
could filibuster any and every thing
and you know they would...
RTIII
Poster of over 0.0135% of all HufPost comments
11:13 AM on 11/26/2009
The Dems can take away his chairmanship AND his non-chairman participation in other committees.

Obama can use "recess appointments".
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12:30 AM on 11/30/2009
Yes, he can take Joe';s chairmanship, and send him scurrying to the gop
and lose that 60th vote and a recess appointment will be the only court appointmentshe can make-except for the most bland and moderate judges.

a recess appointment for the scotus is a waste of a good judge, as his
or her term would be maybe 2 years at the most..rather than a lifetime to change the court.
It would also antgagonize the gop for very little value received. . we need to pick up some more senate seats to make lieberman irrelevant-then give him the boot- but not now...jmo
03:53 AM on 11/25/2009
This bill is awful. It deserves to die.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
structurequity
structurequity not oppression
01:17 AM on 11/25/2009
Whatever it takes to show this democratic party its future is not tied to insurance lobbyists, let's do it and now! May mean tack strips across mental midget mindsets.
09:09 PM on 11/24/2009
Dean is right. The majority of Americans want true health care reform with a robust public option. We have watched as the Democrats allowed an absolutely foolish bill to come to a vote. Americans are not stupid. We are fully aware that the bill does nothing to stop the endless corruption in the insurance corporations. There is no true public option. The insurance companies profit from the bill; our rates continue to go up, and Congress sits back picking its collective nose. The Republicans are a total joke. There is NO one in the GOP who has any credibility. However, there are numerous Democrats who have been just as corrupt as the Republicans. All of these spineless politicians MUST be voted out of office. Whether it be Democrat or Republican, every incumbent should be challenged by a viable candidate. I will continue to vote Democratic, but I will skip over the names of any Democrats who have ruined our chance to FINALLY have true reform and a robust public option. They all think they are untouchable. I think there are going to be MANY suprised politicians in 2010. I love Obama, but WHY is he not fighting for us??? WHY doesn't he demand a robust public option.
11:40 AM on 11/26/2009
You love Obama, huh? Why? He talks pretty? Is that it? WTF has he done for you?
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OB-GYN
To Your Health, America. Live Long and Prosper!
08:31 PM on 11/24/2009
Governor Dean should have been heading Dem health care reform central to begin with. His comments above show his calculating mind, which we all saw with his successful leadership of the DNC and which helped President Obama secure his presidency. Goodness, we needed a guy like this at the helm.

Why are we Dems shooting ourselves in the foot all the time? We have a democratic senate and house and still can't get a good, well thought out bill. Come on Harry, listen to Governor Dean and strategize.
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06:39 PM on 11/24/2009
This is a bad bill. It should not pass as is.
03:44 AM on 11/25/2009
"This is a bad bill. It should not pass as is."
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I totally agree!!!
02:11 PM on 11/24/2009
Time to figure out how to get this done.

If all else fails, 'reconcile'.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/15/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5386805.shtml

' Using reconciliation will remain an option until Democrats can get 60 members to cooperate -- and the party wants to pass a health care bill this year. Liberal advocates for reform say getting all 60 Democrats to cooperate should not be difficult, even to pass a bill with the much-debated public option, since they do not even technically need to vote for the bill -- they simply need to agree to not stand in the way.

Policy-wise, the reconciliation process is simply not intended for comprehensive pieces of legislation like health care reform.

The Senate rules allow reconciliation bills to pass with a simple majority and limited debate on matters that pertain to the budget -- something the Senate saw as too important to be weighed down by partisanship. Since reconciliation bills must pertain to the budget, the Senate is not allowed to use them for matters that would set policy. For this reason, some lawmakers have warned that a reconciliation health bill would have to leave out important provisions (such as consumer protections), resulting in a "Swiss cheese" bill. '
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dems08
Above all... avoid the moor
12:41 AM on 11/25/2009
pass consumer protection parts of the bill with 60+ votes
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Whinger
I'm Just Me!
01:51 PM on 11/24/2009
The Dems are fragmented, they could learn a lot from the Republicans!

Some of them have embraced the dark side, already.
03:13 PM on 11/24/2009
I think I agree with you, Whinger. Maybe some good old irrational b@t$hit off the wall conniption fits, on the part of progressives, would get some fence sitters to sit up and take notice.
08:11 PM on 11/24/2009
You mean the reaction you get when you tell a progressive you disagree with them? that reaction?
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Littlewords
I think I am, therefore I am, I think?!?
01:05 PM on 11/24/2009
Why Reid has p00 p00ed reconciliation is beyond me. It is his means for delivering a good bill for the people. Plus by declaring he won't use it, he has taken pressure off the GOP ready to unleash the lobbyist army, the misguided teabaggers, and right wing media wind bags for weeks of merciless rhetoric, trashing, lying, and sca.re m0ngering.
03:44 PM on 11/24/2009
Reid's a conservative, as are far too many members of the D party. Time for a purge.
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11:44 AM on 11/24/2009
". Maybe Harry has some magic up his sleeve. But I don't see how he gets those four votes [Sens. Joseph Lieberman (Conn.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Blanche Lincoln (Ark.) and Ben Nelson (Neb.)] without compromising the bill," Dean concluded."

You're joking, right Howard?

C'Mon, you do it the old fashioned way. "The Chicago Way".

You twist some arms. You break some arms. You make certain that those who oppose the party and the obvious desires of Democratic voters will no longer enjoy the benefits of the office they fight so hard to keep.

You make certain Lieberman's office gets painted, for several months, and stick his staff in a broom closet during the maintenance period. You start the process moving to transfer them to the "Select Subcommittee on Freeway Striping and Snow Abatement".

Grow some stones, Harry.
03:45 PM on 11/24/2009
And they say, "What are ya gonna do, vote Republican?" The Party exists for its own sake.
03:48 AM on 11/25/2009
"You twist some arms. You break some arms. You make certain that those who oppose the party and the obvious desires of Democratic voters will no longer enjoy the benefits of the office they fight so hard to keep.".
"

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surely you jest. If he does that Liberman goes over to the republicans and then
they can filbuster every scotus nominee ad appeals ct judge nominee, and
most every bill that comes down the pike, and dems get voted out
for "doing nothing" because voters are stupid.
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