Jon Stewart Interviews New Yorker Writer On "Denialism"

New Yorker writer Michael Specter was on "The Daily Show" last night to talk about his new book, "Denialism". Specter makes the argument that Americans are in denial about the actual risks and benefits involved in science and medicine. We're too paranoid, he says, about vaccines in particular, especially recent flu vaccines. But is Specter in denial about his own denial? As Stewart points out, there are some clear risks that Specter is perhaps willfully ignoring to make his point. What do you think?

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Comments

[Ergon]

06:48 PM on 12/26/2009

That Gulf War Syndrome was caused by vaccines and the devastating effects on our vets swept under the rug is just one template in recent history which points to EXACTLY what's happening with Autism.
High time independent resaerch was conducted into vaccine safety and the bizarre vaccine schedule.

[equianimi]

08:00 PM on 12/11/2009

Hard to listen to someone that works for Paul Offit. When you're making millions off vaccines that clearly aren't necessary in the first place there is a serious conflict of interest. I wish Jon Stewart wouldn't give this guy the time of day but maybe he's low on guests.
Offit already owns enough media groups to repeat the "facts" that are actually research fraud to help him make more money. It's also curious that this book of Specter's doesn't have any footnotes in it. That should raise a flag to anyone that wants to know his claims are even based on. This goes right along with the "facts" global warming deniers like to point to but can never back up without pointing to a study connected to the coal industry.
Like always, those of use that can avoid being conned will manage to avoid problems in this world and those that don't won't. Unfortunately I didn't avoid it, I got a flu shot and now i'm crippled as a result. I just hope others get the truth before blindly making the same mistake I did.

[themainpoint]

07:42 AM on 12/09/2009

It seems to me, that Spector is a bit sloppy in that he lumps into one catagory vaccines that have proven to be very effective (such as the polio vaccine), with the profitable, but unproven flu vaccine: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

[fedupwiththis]

04:40 PM on 12/08/2009

When I read the rubbish broadcast and published on this subject I think of the binomial appelation of our species as Homo sapiens (wise man) is ironic to say the least. If you don't want to have your kids vaccinated, don't have them vaccinated. Just keep them out of public society so the rest of us will not be subject to their diseases.

[sdtech]

07:29 PM on 12/06/2009

It does not take a Nobel Peace Prize winning scientist to recognize that mercury kills brain cells. Mercury is regulated at levels 25 times LOWER than lead. There are 25 micrograms of it in each flu shot that uses Thimerosal as a preservative. A half cup of water (4 ounces) with that much mercury has 0.2114 parts per million mercury and is considered a liquid hazardous waste, number D009, by the USEPA. See http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=40&PART=261&SECTION=24&TYPE=TEXT .

And read Luis Maya's report at http://www.safeminds.org/research/AnFacMedLima2006-67(3).pdf .

And finally read Lyn Redwood’s testimony to the US Congress at http://www.whale.to/a/redwood.pdf .

[jimsey]

03:23 AM on 12/07/2009

The first link doesn't work.

The second links to a page that includes, in it first paragraph, "... the ultimate goal is to encourage and support efforts to conduct medical research that provides credible findings to support that the mercury/autism hypothesis is true." In other words it supports research to support the foregone conclusions. An extraordinary admission, I'm sure unintended, and incredibly biased and unscientific in the end.

Thimerosal has been progressively phased out of vaccines for children. http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228#t2

The Danish study among others shows that autism rates are the same for children with and without vaccines containing thimerosal. See for example: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/114/3/793

[sdtech]

08:33 AM on 12/07/2009

Thimerosal is STILL in the majority of flu shots and is STILL recommended by the CDC and FDA for pregnant women and children. According to the USEPA, “mercury compounds to prevent bacterial and fungal growth” for latex paint were discontinued after 1990. See http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/mercury.html . Since mercury is regulated at 2 parts per billion in drinking water by the USEPA and FDA then why do the CDC and FDA allow injections into the bloodstreams of pregnant women and children at 50,000 parts per billion in flu shots and when will our federal agencies take action to stop this atrocity?

[sdtech]

08:37 AM on 12/07/2009

The FDA and CDC must STOP those recommendations to give flu shots with Thimerosal, the equivalent of a half cup (4 ounces) of mercury liquid hazardous waste D009, to children and pregnant women!

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=40&PART=261&SECTION=24&TYPE=TEXT

[sdtech]

08:24 AM on 12/07/2009

The first link works by cutting and pasting the following:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=40&PART=261&SECTION=24&TYPE=TEXT

[Nobro]

01:57 AM on 12/06/2009

I think it is of particular interest that Mr. Specter openly admits that in the case of Vioxx, specific testing should of been done to identify those subjects who would have a problem with the drug. I believe in the case of vaccines that is exactly what most parents are asking for. Identify those children that have a succeptablity to certain vaccines and don't give it to them.
Surely, this long staged argument, that vaccines cannot possibly harm children can no longer be tolerated. Methinks thou dost protest too much Mr. Specter. You are reaching way too far.

[LarryGeater]

11:55 AM on 12/07/2009

No one is arguing that vaccines are without risk. the risk is lower than the risk of not getting the vacine. There is no action that you can take that is risk free. Risks must be measured against eachother, not against the unattainable standard of 'risk free'.

[Nobro]

05:42 PM on 12/07/2009

Exactly the point too many vaccines being administered too quickly is entirely not without risk and what I am saying is the risk now out weighs any possible advantage. Return to a safer schedule and identify those children that are susceptible.

[praxitas]

02:52 PM on 12/08/2009

"specific testing should of been"
specific testing should HAVE been.

[rmoffi]

02:49 PM on 12/05/2009

Wouldn't "denialism" apply to all those scientists and media pundits who are staunchly defending "scientists" who are accused of fraudulently manipulating data they gathered to prove "global warming" ...and then...when discovered...claimed to have conveniently "lost" that data making examination of their life's work impossible?

[TheBaffler]

11:09 PM on 12/05/2009

None of that happened, so you've provided us with an example of BS, not of denial by others.

[rmoffi]

06:19 AM on 12/06/2009

There were no incriminating "emails" and the scientific data has not been "conveinently lost'? All the allegations regarding the fraudulent manipulation of "global warming" science were "B.S." Imagine that....it was all "B.S."

Wow....you have a SCOOP!!! I haven't seen or heard ANYTHING that would make me believe it was all "B.S."...but...then....isn't the acceptance of information without facts the very essence of "denialism"?

Maybe you can enlighten me on where YOU have gotten YOUR information?

[tiyanasmom]

02:16 PM on 12/05/2009

No deaths or injuries? Really? What about the mounting # of miscarriages? and Guillain-Barre syndrome?Check out http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/05/Swine-Flu-Shot-Side-Effects-Beginning-to-Take-Their-Toll.aspx and http://noworldsystem.com/2009/11/15/pregnant-women-miscarriage-after-h1n1-vaccine/ So there no deaths or injuries? How do you figure? Because it hasn't been recognized by the established medical system yet it doesn't count? Now whose in denial?

[bluevalentine]

08:19 AM on 12/06/2009

It's amazing to me that there was a concern that H1N1 may have caused 41 deaths. In ONE day "they" proved that not one of those deaths was related to vaccines. AND 20 years to not know what happens with autism.
GMAB
If you chose to vaccinate, please do it responsibly and educate yourself first.

[mogrammy]

01:52 PM on 12/05/2009

I watched the program when it originally aired. Thought it was interesting that the whole time they discussed vaccines when it only took up one chapter in Specter's book. I think he must have some peersonal agenda against the autism community or else he's just plain uneducated. He is in total denial. How does he think our kids became autistic? We were the ones that vaccinated them.
Jon Stewart did not handle the interview well and really let Specter get away with some blatant lies because Steward didn't ask him to back up anything he said. It was a very disappointing show.
Maurine Meleck

[AmyCat]

11:39 PM on 12/06/2009

"How does he think our kids became autistic?"

I don't think he knows. I have yet to see ANY scientific PROOF that vaccines (or aluminum cans and cookware, or microwave radiation, or whatever else) "cause" autism. A bunch of heartbroken parents saying "Our kids are autistic, so SOMETHING must be to blame... Hey wait! They all got vaccinated!! Vaccines made 'em autistic!" does NOT constitute PROOF.

[typicalpol]

01:30 PM on 12/05/2009

A plagiarist is the best denialist writer pharma could buy?

[Twyla]

12:11 PM on 12/05/2009

It's the vaccine defenders who are in denial mode, not the parents, doctors and scientists who are raising legitimate safety concerns.

Yes, Specter is in denial and has apparently only listened to Dr. Paul Offit, whom he liberally quotes (without always citing him btw). Dr. Offit makes huge money from the pharmaceutical industry. He holds in a $1.5 million dollar research chair at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, funded by Merck. He holds the patent on a vaccine he developed with Merck, Rotateq, which has brought him millions of dollars.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/25/cbsnews_investigates/main4296175.shtml

Dr. Offit is not an expert in autism, yet he is often treated as if he has expertise. In truth, his primary interest is in defending vaccines, not in finding the truth. He is a denialist if there ever was one.

Michael Specter should have looked into all sides of these issues instead of relying on one very biased doctor.

[jened]

11:46 AM on 12/05/2009

well here is a real expert's opninion that we should stop immunizing against H1N1, one of the weakest pandemics in global history. (yes, some people have been killed and that happens with any flu).

http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Expert+questions+continuing+H1N1+vaccinations/2307218/story.l
Also, I have heard a pediatrician recently say that ONLY active (real) disease can provide "herd immunity", not vaccination. If that is true, then so much for the argument about doing your part to help the larger community. It would be every man for himself, and I would rather risk alot of the so-called deadly diseases than get the (basically) untested vaccines.

[TimKasemodel]

11:42 AM on 12/05/2009

For 3 years legislation was proposed in MN requiring anyone administering vaccines to order 100% mercury free vaccines first, sending the message to manufacturers that we, the consumer, might prefer those without 50,000 ppb mercury in them . Any mercury containing vaccines given would require the consumer be informed that the vaccine contained mercury, and let them make their own informed decision.

At a meeting in the Governor's office with MDH officials and Governor Pawlenty's health staffer, the Commissioner of Health told us that it would waste time if doctors had to explain to people why the mercury in vaccines is "safe". She brought up the "studies that show" mercury does not cause autism (which we did not bring up) and stated that she was convinced by those "studies", impying that she believes that injecting mercury into little babies is 100% without harm.

The Commisioner could not name the studies themselves, or give any specifics from them. she stated that she (and I suspect Michael Specter as well) did not have time to read the entire studies themselves, relying on the summary and conclusions of the authors to reach her conclusions. That's discouraging, because the studies she refers to tell a very different story when completely understood.

It is up to us as indviduals to decide whether the "benefits" of vaccines truly do outweigh the very real risks in our own specific case. Do not rely on "writers", to do your thinking for you.

Check out http://fourteenstudies.com/ for yourself.

[ThoJ]

06:06 PM on 12/06/2009

"It is up to us as indviduals to decide whether the "benefits" of vaccines truly do outweigh the very real risks in our own specific case. Do not rely on "writers", to do your thinking for you.

Check out http://fourteenstudies.com/ for yourself."

Do you even see the irony in your comment?

You tell people not to listen to writers, and send them to a website created by JB Handley, a businessman who didn't even have the guts to sign his name to it.

If "fourteen studies" was written sooner, it would have likely been given as an example of denialism in Specter's book. It is really that bad.

[Doybia]

10:32 PM on 12/06/2009

So, Thomas, you don't think people should be able to read the studies for themselves and make up their own minds?

That is, after all, the real point of the fourteenstudies web-site. Access to the full-text content of the studies which are usually brought forward to defend vaccines against the charge of causing autism.

Or am I misunderstanding your argument?

[foe2Hg]

10:23 AM on 12/05/2009

Mr. Specter is hardly presenting true fasts here. He is either in denial about any adverse effects from vaccines or blatantly telling false facts. His 55,000 deaths by Vioxx comparison to vaccine injures/deaths is such a minimization of a huge and increased issue. His denial of the impact of those Vioxx deaths as well as the increasing numbers of deaths and injury from vaccines is a red flag to his steamroller approach to science- disregard human suffering and death and keep moving forward. Science should be able to do both- move forward and be safe to ALL., but money talks. If Industry ie - food, pharmaceutical can plow right trough those 55,000 in the name of saving another 55,000, morally and ethically , we are at the mercy of a Russian roulette type of science and that is what Mr.Specter is attempting to deny.

Science can and should be able to make safer products because unlike his analogy of people slowing down in their cars thus saving lives (death by car accidents) = we do not have control of the manufacturing of these adverse/deadly products. We are unable to "brake" or "slow down" unless we see Merck or another steamrolling by, causing deaths and injuries and we contact the media, our Congress, those government agencies (FDA,CDC).

Thanks to Jon Stewart for navigating this conversation in a manner that was not too convinced that Mr. Specter was representing an entirely honest view here.

[commenter314159]

10:43 AM on 12/05/2009

You make some good points, we need to encourage lawmakers to make sure that the FDA has the freedom and power to fully investigate and remove medicines if they need to. Let's all rememeber that the FDA should be on our side. It's true though that it's a human run organization and because of this individuals in the FDA will always be tempted to act decietfully for money but if we lose trust in the FDA entirely we have no where else to turn for enforcing the regulation and safety of drugs.

[foe2Hg]

10:57 AM on 12/05/2009

Your comment is telling. I was speaking about Industry and money but your words-

"It's true though that it's a human run organization and because of this individuals in the FDA will always be tempted to act decietfully for money"

...was not on my radar so much. The fact that you use "will always be tempted to act decietfully for money" rather than they "may" act deceitfully is pretty damning.

How horrible that we can't rely on Industry or the agencies that regulate them to have clean hands. We are at the mercy of money vs morals and it looks like money wins way too much.

[ChrisDWard]

10:08 AM on 12/05/2009

..................... or evangelical right wingnuts, neocon pinheads on Faux News and radio hatemongers, etc.