Richard Cohen: Gay-To-Straight 'Therapist' Spars With Rachel Maddow (VIDEO)

Richard Cohen claims he has helped thousands of people come out of ... homosexuality.

His work has drawn the ire of the LGBT community, and has also been used in Uganda to help justify an anti-homosexual movement that culminated in a legislative effort known as the "Kill The Gays Bill."

Cohen appeared on The Rachel Maddow Show on Tuesday to present his side of the story. He distanced himself from the Ugandan legislation, but continued to advocate his position that homosexuals can change their preferences.

"I realize I was taking the risk of helping promote you and the way that you think about these things by putting you on the air," Maddow said. "But I do think that you've actually got blood on your hands."

Later she added, "Just in case this gets heard in Uganda ... Richard Cohen is not licensed by any American or any other licensing body whatsoever."

During the segment, Maddow read passages from Cohen's book, Coming Out Straight, including one based on discredited research:

Homosexuals are at least 12 times more likely to molest children than heterosexuals; homosexual teachers are at least 7 times more likely to molest a pupil; homosexual teachers are estimated to have committed at least 25 percent of pupil molestation; 40 percent of molestation assaults were made by those who engage in homosexuality.

Cohen acknowledged that he plans on withdrawing the quote from future printings so that it cannot be used against homosexuals in the propaganda war in Uganda. However, he struggled to remember that his book still includes race as a possible factor in homosexuality.

WATCH:

Comments

[jfmckenna]

06:43 PM on 01/04/2010

Have you noticed? Those who say that people can't change over to heterosexuality just offer theories or political viewpoints. Those who say they can offer actual evidence.

[StevenKeirstead]

07:49 AM on 01/11/2010

"[E]nduring change to an individual's sexual orientation is uncommon. The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE.” from the 2009 American Psychological Association review of studies of reparative therapy by Exodus International and others. In other words, there is no scientific evidence that most people can change sexual orientation from gay to straight, though a few of them can suppress the expression of their sexuality.

[AnotherAngle]

01:31 PM on 01/03/2010

If you really believe that nothing is wrong or abnormal about homosexuality, why do you have to make excuses or give reasons for being who you are?

[AnotherAngle]

01:00 PM on 01/03/2010

Rachel is telling a man that actually went from gay to straight that the *authorities* say it's impossible. I wonder how he's going to go home and tell his wife that Rachel said the last 27 years have been an impossibility and that there's no way it could've happened. How does anyone have the authority to make a statement like that when none of us can penetrate the minds and souls of others?

Priceless.

[DMSmith]

01:52 PM on 01/03/2010

"...actually went from gay to straight..."
There are many men and women who are married, and most who are faithful to that marriage, that are not straight. It is VERY common indeed. We may not be Uganda, but being openly gay, and acting on those needs is dangerous to many. Literally dangerous. They can lose marriages and the perks of society that go with that. They can lose inheritances from family, they can lose jobs and fortunes and futures. None of this should be true, but it is.
That this man has been married for one month or twenty years is meaningless. He, of all people, would lose everything he has made - a fortune I would bet - if he appeared NOT to have changed.
He and his marriage proves nothing. Not one thing.
YOU may find this priceless. I find that he has blood on his hands as Rachel said.

[tonne]

02:52 PM on 12/23/2009

11:12--- 'Richard Cohen: You're taking my words out of context"
'Rachel: "Look dude, I'm reading from the page of your book with your name on the cover" lol... I love Rachel :)

[liberalOrgonian]

01:10 PM on 12/31/2009

precious comment from Rachel. "look dude..."

This guy won't even fess up to what HE WROTE.

[John Bell]

01:30 PM on 01/01/2010

And she called him "dude"! Priceless!

[steveinohio]

02:44 PM on 12/18/2009

Based purely on this interview, this guy seemed reasonable, if a bit odd. He didn't push a religious agenda (In fact, he points out that he thinks their way of doing things is a farce), he seems comfortable with the fact that some people are gay and ok with that, and he seems receptive to the idea that he might need to change some of what he does to avoid it being misused by Uganda or others. I never heard him say specifically that being gay or straight is ONLY a choice, given that he cited numerous contributing factors to being gay that wouldn't reflect a conscious choice. I haven't considered the issue much, but it doesn't seem like a leap to believe that attraction can have elements of nature and nurture. He seems interested in helping people who want to be helped. If his goal is helping people to enjoy their own lives, I'm ok with that...that's everyone's goal. Given that he himself was gay, it seems hard to discredit him on the basis of not knowing what it's like.

I fully admit I'm no expert on the issue or the interviewee, but as much as Rachel threw at him, in my opinion not much stuck. I love Rachel Maddow, and watch regularly. I think she's one of the smartest people on television. I understand why she hates what is going on in Uganda (as all people should), but I don't think this attempted hit job was successful.

[Shawn Fraine]

10:48 AM on 12/20/2009

didn't stick? Really?

I'm a Psychology major and since I'm gay, I've always kind of wanted to know why. Countless studies show that what this man is saying is false. That's why a huge majority of Psychologist agree that it is not a choice. They don't know exactly what it is, but it's mostly agreed upon.

His goal maybe to help and while he says he believes its all about love...the way he characterizes gays is as predators preying on children. Which is directly in the "kill the gays bill".

Not only is he basing everything off of a person kicked out of EVERY organization for Psychology...he himself was kicked out of an organization because of "ethical" reasons. So any information he uses is really just tainted.

So how you could possibly think nothing stuck is ignorant at best.

[Amanda Lawson]

10:22 PM on 12/15/2009

I love Rachel, shes so brilliant!

[maven in NYC]

04:39 PM on 12/18/2009

She really is. The rose among many many thorns.

[Caprise]

10:12 AM on 12/15/2009

I understand why there are some people saying she's biased. I'm sure people watch this video with preconceived notions, assuming that she'd be slightly unfair. However, a gay person is obviously going to hold someone accountable if they contribute to people killing gay people. I think she was very fair; much more professional than I would have been.

The thing that you people (who are defending this man) aren't understanding is that he's trying to "help people" change from gay to straight. His very "mission" is implying that there's something wrong or unacceptable with being gay. It reminds me of the places that help people quit smoking. Kind of that "You don't have to, but you can if you want to, and really you should" rhetoric he's hiding behind.

He's, in fact, inferring that it's better to be straight. He even says "there's no such thing as "gay"; only hurt children..." So homosexuality is merely the psychological result of being emotionally damaged? You honestly believe he's not a proponent in perpetuating the misunderstanding and mistreatment of gay people?

If you support that mentality, then don't defend him on this thread.

If you don't, then don't defend this man. Think about his overall message, not how he backpedaled from his own motives when a powerful gay person called him out on his nonsensical fanatic and unfounded ideas. Anyone with half a brain wouldn't want to take responsibility for their part in an attempted extermination on television.

[yougottabekiddingmee]

09:57 AM on 12/16/2009

What he is saying is that "some" (not all) people entered the homosexual lifestyle as a result of early traumatic experiences. For example, a young girl is unforgivably molested by her stepdad - even though it is and awful experience, she goes on to be promiscous with men- which happens a lot. Flipping the script - a young boy who has never been sexual (age 5 or 6) is unforgivably sexually molested at a young age by a male and goes on to repeat the sexual behavior he experienced. I know DOZENS of men like this - it exists.

[Caprise]

02:41 PM on 12/18/2009

I understand what you're saying. This does happen. However, he did not say "some". He said there's no such thing as homosexuality. That is an absolute claim which isn't based upon molestation since not every homosexual was molested.

The other thing he states is that gay men are looking for love that they didn't have from a father figure, and same with women and a mother figure. What about gay people who had perfectly fine parents? He's trying to force problems where there aren't any in order to explain away something that he doesn't understand. He's implying that homosexuality is a result of hurtful trauma, which, this is only his implications mind you, completely trivializes homosexuality and renders homosexuality to be a condition rather than a natural state of being--like brown hair or big feet.

If his only agenda was to rehabilitate and therapeutically treat children who had been molested in order to prevent further molestation, I'm sure that would be fine, and very much welcome. However, he's targeting all homosexuals, not just molestation cases. And he's not licensed for a reason. Regulations for credentials are in place and they do serve a purpose.

[Shawn Fraine]

10:50 AM on 12/20/2009

Which a huge majority of Psychological studies have proven false. (I'm a psychology major at the University of Maryland).

[ricmarc]

02:57 AM on 12/13/2009

the guy is a fraud charlaton who sells magic hugs. for money.

[Traci Ramos]

04:34 PM on 12/11/2009

I would like to know how much money is generated from Richard Cohen's books and International Healing Foundation. Sounds like a scam to me.

[MOCONSERVATIVE]

04:17 PM on 12/11/2009

Why is the word "choice" so important when it comes to preserving the right to discard babies, but non-existent when it comes to sexual preference?

[Liberal Angel]

02:20 PM on 12/12/2009

Sexual orientation is not a choice. People discard children all the time, it's called neglect (or adoption). But I guess you're talking about a certain medical procedure? Well, women have the right to choose what to do with their bodies. Why? Because they're THEIR bodies, and they determone what they will and will not do with them.

[maven in NYC]

01:28 PM on 12/18/2009

What a ridiculous comment.

[PartisanLove]

01:31 PM on 12/11/2009

What a pathetic db. Again, its simple, someone trying to make money off of fear, at the expense of others.

[GenXer]

11:35 AM on 12/11/2009

Even if she was leaning heavy on him, it is not like she was making a law to justify genocide. Give her some lee way there. He is the one that put nonsense in his book from a completely discredited so-called expert.

[MarkBoston]

03:30 AM on 12/11/2009

bigots need us gays . The sickness is really bigotry. The need to hate in order to feel superior due to a self hate that bleeds them dry. The Religious fanatic needs us to be able to rile up his fellow believers.. THIS gives these looser their ONLY sense of community. A focused rally point. Communism , Blacks and feminists all took turns being the bigots focus .. Since then it's become unfashionable to point at these past groups. The gays are the LAST group that have no real protections via our American government so its their simple path of least resistance and best chance for an outcome to them .... Gays and immigrants because no one really stick up for these two groups ..

[DMSmith]

02:04 PM on 01/03/2010

Thank you, Mark. That needed saying.

[bajed]

12:15 AM on 12/11/2009

I just read the pages that Rachel used from Cohen's book. She definitely took the books words out of context. He places race and religion together as potential catalysts for rejection not as the root of homosexuality. This was a tough guest and subject for Rachel to take on and keep some semblance of objectivity. Cohen comported himself very well. I have to give Rachel some credit for not coming off completely subjective.

[bajed]

12:18 AM on 12/11/2009

Here is the page Rachel read from:

http://www.amazon.com/reader/0830834370?_encoding=UTF8&token=VOXWTYkvWVVyzjf5l7c9uo2zsZuNeb9zwxrs7ki7i54uTNs9zz1M6w%3D%3D&query=race&page=76#reader_0830834370

[TheBaffler]

12:28 AM on 12/11/2009

He had the opportunity to clarify what those words meant. She asked him repeatedly what he meant; he wouldn't answer.

[bajed]

01:03 AM on 12/11/2009

He clarified at 12:32 of the video.

[Anonani]

11:44 PM on 12/10/2009

Sometimes a persons sexual orientation is chosen for a person and so I challenge the assumptions of some here. Every day heterosexual incarcerated men are being sexually assaulted in our prisons. Some of them will never leave the prisons due to harsh sentences; some so acculturate to the lifestyle the maintain it even after leaving the prisons and jails. Many are being forced into long term sexual relationships with other men as a means of survival. Then there are children, male and female, being sexually groomed at very young ages and introduced by either adults or older children/teens who experienced the same thing as children.These things can and often do go unknown and unreported for years and often becomes the sexual identity and orientation of that "victim" simply by circumstances,not birth or predilection. I do not believe that those children/men were going to choose this lifestyle, or it is natural for them, and would have occurred anyway because they are predisposed to be homosexual. There really are circumstances that challenge every truism.

[Aerows]

10:43 AM on 12/11/2009

I'm sure there are plenty of heterosexuals locked into unfulfilling relationships because they are also being exploited. A perfect example is a woman who depends on a man that she doesn't love because the Christian church encourages it, because of abuse, or any number of other reasons.

How many stories of people struggling with their sexuality do you have to hear to realize that some people just aren't straight, even though there is enormous pressure on them to be so?

[M1]

05:29 PM on 12/14/2009

What you are describing is rape in a prison and child rape. Not a loving committed relationship between two consenting adults.

What you describe can be said of straight people as well. Any human being that is tortured and has choice taken from them will try to adapt to survive. This is what the Christians are counting on. But, it really misses the point. Freedom is choice. The choice vs genetics is just a red herring.