Proposition 8 Trial: Witness Says Marriage Threatened If Gays Can Wed

LISA LEFF   01/26/10 10:14 PM ET   AP

Proposition Trial

SAN FRANCISCO — The head of a family values group testified Tuesday that marriage developed to provide children with clear ties to their biological parents but is in such a weakened state in the United States that extending the institution to same-sex couples could be its death blow.

David Blankenhorn, president of the Institute for American Values, a private think tank in New York, took the stand as the second and final expert witness for the defense in the federal trial challenging California's ban on same-sex marriage. Lawyers for Proposition 8's sponsors are trying to prove the voter-approved measure serves a legitimate public purpose.

"If we move toward a widespread adoption of same-sex marriage, I believe the effect will be to significantly further and in some respects culminate the process of the deinstitutionalization of marriage," Blankenhorn said.

Blankenhorn acknowledged that heterosexuals were responsible for rising divorce and out-of-wedlock birth rates, but said allowing gays to marry could accelerate the process and possibly lead to the legalization of polygamy.

"The man-woman customary basis for marriage in turn reinforces limiting marriage to two," he said. "If you knock out one of those pillars, the other becomes less comprehensible and therefore less defensible."

The evidence phase of the trial, the first in a federal court to examine if the U.S. Constitution prohibits denying gays and lesbians the right to wed, is expected to wrap up Wednesday. Chief U.S. Judge Vaughn R. Walker, who is hearing the case without a jury, said he will then take a few weeks to review the testimony before hearing closing arguments.

David Boies, one of the lead lawyers for the two same-sex couples who sued to overturn Proposition 8, tried to discredit Blankenhorn by getting him to acknowledge that he has conducted no independent research on same-sex marriage and his only advanced degree is in comparative labor history.

"I have not engaged in a scientific study were I find data and write up an article that would be published of that nature," Blankenhorn said. "I have read articles and had conversations with people and tried to be an informed person about it, and that really has been the extent of it."

Blankenhorn said he thought it was important to preserve the child-rearing function of marriage because research showed that being raised by biological parents in a stable marriage produced the most well-adjusted children. Under cross-examination, Blankenhorn said he unaware of any studies showing that children raised by gay or lesbian couples since birth fared worse than children brought up by their biological mother and father.

"Do you believe that legalizing same-sex marriage would improve the well-being of children raised by those households?" Boies asked.

"Adopting same-sex marriage would be likely to improve the well-being of gay and lesbian households and their children," Blankenhorn said.

Earlier in the day, while also facing an exhaustive cross-examination by Boies, a political scientist testifying for the defense said voters' religious views and anti-gay stereotypes played a role in the ballot measure's passage in 2008.

Claremont McKenna College Professor Kenneth Miller said he could not say what proportion of voters supported the ban because of bias or theological beliefs, but he acknowledged that at least some did.

David Thompson, a lawyer for Proposition 8 sponsors, asked Miller if concerns he expressed early in his career about the initiative process being used to deny vulnerable minorities their rights applied to the gay marriage controversy. Miller said it did not.

"In my view, taking that decision out of the hands of the people in general is an example of the courts taking too strong a position on this issue, this fundamental issue of social policy in the country," Miller said.

The exchange prompted Judge Walker to chime in with a question: "Are you saying it's never appropriate for the judiciary to intervene in the initiative process?"

"My view is it is appropriate when an initiative, just like any other statute enacted by a legislature, violates, in this case, the federal Constitution," Miller answered.

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SAN FRANCISCO — The head of a family values group testified Tuesday that marriage developed to provide children with clear ties to their biological parents but is in such a weakened state in the...
SAN FRANCISCO — The head of a family values group testified Tuesday that marriage developed to provide children with clear ties to their biological parents but is in such a weakened state in the...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RatPack78
I enjoy playing devil's advocate.
04:25 PM on 01/28/2010
I LOVE when Miller critisizes the courts for "taking the decision out of the hands of the people." But then he goes on to say that not only should this issue be decided in the courts, but that Prop 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.: "My view is it is appropriate when an initiative, just like any other statute enacted by a legislature, violates, in this case, the federal Constitution," Miller answered.

I can see why the Prop 8 defenders didn't want this trial televised. They're embarrassing themselves! They have an EXTREMELY weak case with so-called "experts" who do more to prove the point of the plaintiffs. If there is another vote on this issue, at least there will be plenty of quotes that clearly demonstrate the ignorance and hypocrisy of those against marriage equality.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mercury613
In the blue TV screen light
04:08 PM on 01/28/2010
"The man-woman customary basis for marriage in turn reinforces limiting marriage to two," he said. "If you knock out one of those pillars, the other becomes less comprehensible and therefore less defensible."

That makes about as much sense as saying, "The male-only customary basis for voting in turn reinforces limiting voting rights to adults. If you knock out one of those pillars, the other becomes less comprehensible and therefore less defensible."

And that led to teenagers voting, and then toddlers voting, and then INFANTS voting!!! Oh, wait...
11:32 AM on 01/28/2010
And so what, exactly, would he propose to do about the continuing "threat" posed by those of us who married in 2008?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
elizlucinda
a mind is a terrible thing to waste
10:43 AM on 01/28/2010
Blah...blah...blah....Once an idiot..always an idiot.

We have allowed "gay marriage|" in Canada and the world as we know it has not stopped spinning on its axis.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ladyvader
Less apathy, more empathy!
06:53 PM on 02/20/2010
Israel is more progressive than the US.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LynnW49
"A great democracy must be progressive." TR
01:45 PM on 01/27/2010
Blankenhorn is considered a credible witness?!? Insane.
08:44 AM on 01/27/2010
The defenders of Prop 8 seem to be putting on such a weak defense, with 2 very poor witnesses it seems they know they have a lost cause. What happens if the judge rules against them and throws Prop 8 out. I know everyone has said this will end up at the Supreme Court, but what if the Supremes decide not to take the case, since they may not want to weigh in to make this a national issue at this time. If they let stand a ruling invalidating Prop 8, then marriage would be legal in California but it would not have any impact in any other state. Am I missing something in this logic?
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newtom
eschew obfuscation
10:41 AM on 01/27/2010
If the SCOTUS won't hear the case, then this court's ruling will stand.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JakeHanson
Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America!
01:55 PM on 01/28/2010
It'd make California cool again!
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StevenKeirstead
Photographer and Biologist who happens to be gay.
07:54 AM on 01/27/2010
In Massachusetts we have not seen an increase in the divorce rate in the 5.66 years since same sex marriage was legalized, and in fact we have continued to have the lowest divorce rate in the US. Teen pregnancy rates have been dropping here, unlike many other states, and we are ranked number 11 for the fewest teen pregnancies. Polygamy has not been legalized. Perhaps if the rest of the country followed our example the institution of marriage would be strengthened. Certainly there is no indication of harm from our Commonwealth’s marriage equality experience.

So far from being an expert, David Blankenhorn is an ignoramus who either does not know what he is talking about, or is outright lying to the court.
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newtom
eschew obfuscation
10:14 AM on 01/27/2010
Blankenhorn has an advanced degree in comparative labor history. His OPINION is based on his own personal experience, material he's read (from the internet and other religiously-based publications) and from conversations he's had. This, compared to the medical, psychological, and social experts that Boise et al have called to the stand.

I don't belive they are lying, but their testimony has no basis in fact -- only opinion. This was the second and final "expert" for the defense. The other was Mr. Tam who also "read stuff on the internet" to form his opinion on whether or not marriage equality should be permitted. The source of that material, it turns out, was from contributors to his anti-gay website.

The PropH8 movement is based on prejudiced opinion and fooled the voters of California with irrational fear and religious rhetoric. That tactic continues in federal court. Fortunately. a court of law is based in fact and proof.
12:12 AM on 01/27/2010
let me tell you how I think this will play out. It will make it out of this court with a decsion for the plaintiff and get to SCOTUS where is will be overturned 5-4. After what they did last week, this is an easy call.
11:45 PM on 01/26/2010
The only interest the United States government and the citizens of the United States have in marriage is the ability for form a legal union that confers certain benefits to both the government and to the couple in being considered a "family" or a household unit.

Period.

Any other implications of marriage are, generally speaking, religious. No one is conflating the civil and religious institutions except the people holding out for religious exceptionism, trying to deny the civil benefits of marriage to anyone but themselves.

But we loooong ago left a time when marriages were only performed by religious entities in houses of worship, hence the "justice of the peace" or wedding chapels in Las Vegas where people get married wearing by Elvis impersonators.

These opponents of same-sex marriage need to get a grip and lose the hysteria. Allowing others the legal status of being a married couple, even if both are women, or both are men, has no impact whatsoever, negative or positive, on heterosexual married couples.

Wait -- there might be a real positive outcome. Fewer of their (my) children's classmates would be living in homes considered single-parent. After all, some of the homosexual parent would be married parents, a "real" couple in legal terms, and enjoy the benefits thereof.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wandering girl
grownup
11:24 PM on 01/26/2010
several countries in the world have legalized gay marriage, yet there still seem to be thousands of straight couples who get married. how does that show the "deinstitutionalization of marriage" there?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DoctorWhoDat
Why did I land on this planet?
10:33 PM on 01/26/2010
If my wife and I get a divorce, can I blame the Gays for my marriage failure?
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Grada3784
God is a Parent, not an abuser.
11:44 PM on 01/26/2010
Only if I get custody of the toaster oven and some good cookware.
mountaingal
Liberty and justice for all.
09:29 PM on 01/26/2010
I cannot understand people who are anti-gay rights. Is it fear or self-righteousness that propels them to deny rights of others? The ultra religious seem to be more vested in denying gays rights--the Mormons especially who funded Prop 8. They live in a world of absolutes and see homosexuality as a threat to their very existence but cannot explain other than quoting Bible verses. Whenever I argue about this my friend throws Bible verses at me, as if that is the final say in any argument. I say that would be a fine argument if I also considered the Bible as the final unambiguous authority in all things. Besides what is quoted could be interpreted differently.
09:01 PM on 01/26/2010
My comment should read he provided no evidence that gay marriage was at fault for the divorce rate of hetersexual couples.
08:58 PM on 01/26/2010
This article did not do justice to just how useless the defense witnesses have been to the defense. When I asked about his statement that "We would be more American the day we legalized gay marriage than the day before", Blankennhorn said he still agreed with it. He also provided no evidence for the things he was saying about gay marriage being the fault of gays. He explained that marriage is not a religious instituion and gay people would benefit for the right to marry. He was combative and wouldn't answer simple questions.
07:10 PM on 01/26/2010
In Republics, the great danger is, that the majority may not sufficiently respect the rights of the minority.
James Madison

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.
Thomas Jefferson

In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority.
Edmund Burke

When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong.
Eugene V. Debs

The voice of the majority is no proof of justice.
Friedrich Schiller

There can be no assumption that today's majority is "right" and the Amish and others like them are "wrong." A way of life that is odd or even erratic but interferes with no rights or interests of others is not to be condemned because it is different.
Warren E. Burger

Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).
Ayn Rand
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PhilipB
04:12 PM on 01/27/2010
Thank you for putting together this impressive list of quotes.
Best,