iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Countries Where Gays Do Serve Openly In The Military

First Posted: 04/05/10 06:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 04:25 PM ET

Israel

By Charles Sennott

BOSTON -- In many corners of the world, the policy on gays in the military could be labeled this way: "Don't Ask, Don't Care."

In the military establishments of more than 30 countries, including U.S. allies such as Israel, Canada and the United Kingdom, gays and lesbians are allowed to openly serve in their country's military.

It's just not a big issue out there in much of the Western world.

But here in the U.S., the long-simmering debate over "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has heated up after President Barack Obama vowed to repeal it during his State of the Union Address last week.

On Tuesday, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, in a powerful and emotional statement, denounced the policy before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Now the stage is set for a year-long debate over what is best for the U.S. military and the country it serves. And it seems the military brass is on the retreat on a policy that needs to be changed because, as Mullen put it, "It is the right thing to do."

Obama could now seek to change the law through legislation or repeal the policy through an executive order.

Advocates for repealing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" say it is high time for gays to serve their country proudly and openly, and they claim there is no evidence that such a change would be detrimental to the military. These advocates for changing the 1993 policy add that the U.S. military needs the tens of thousands of gays and lesbians who currently serve and the tens of thousands more who would enlist if they were allowed to do so.

Supporters of the existing policy say it has worked well and that now, while the country is fighting two active wars, is not the time to take on a substantive change in policy that could hurt the military's "preparedness and effectiveness," as they like to say in the Pentagon. They fear such a change could undercut recruitment in an all-volunteer army that is already overstretched.

The deadlocked debate in the U.S. could benefit from lessons about how allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly has worked with many of our allies.

According to military analysts and experts who have studied the issue in Israel, the U.K. and elsewhere, the policy has had little impact on the effectiveness of the military.

There are about 30 countries in the world, including nearly all of the NATO members, as well as South Africa, Brazil and the Philippines, that allow gay and lesbian servicemen and women in the military, according to Aaron Belkin, a political science professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

"In just about all of these countries there is research and anecdotal evidence that illustrates there is no problem, no decrease in cohesion among units, nor a diminishing effectiveness of the troops," said Belkin, an expert in the area of civil-military relations whose research has been published in the military publications "International Security" and "Armed Forces and Society."

In 2000, Belkin co-authored an exhaustive 44-page study on Canada, which, after a series of lawsuits in 1991, changed its policies to allow gays to openly serve in the military. Belkin's study, which at the time was regarded as the most comprehensive academic study of homosexuality in a foreign military ever completed, concluded that the change in policy had "not led to any change in military performance, unit cohesion, or discipline."

The U.S. military walks a fine line on this issue, not outright banning gays in the military, but insisting that their sexual orientation must not be openly discussed. Under the 1993 policy adopted by President Bill Clinton, service members who remain closeted are allowed to serve, and investigation into a member's sexuality without suspicion is prohibited. It's a private matter, in other words. But any gay or lesbian in the military who refuses to stay silent, seeks to publicly proclaim their orientation or wants to get married, even in states where gay marriage is legal, risks being discharged.

Russia is one of the very few other countries in the world with a blurred line. In Russia, the policy holds that "well-adjusted homosexuals" are permitted to serve in a "normal capacity." But those alleged to have "sexual identity problems" are to be drafted only during wartime.

Most countries in the world, particularly in the Muslim world and in religiously conservative countries in Africa, Asia and most of Latin America, clearly prohibit gays from serving in the military. There are some 80 countries in the world that still see homosexuality as a crime and a handful that still see it as a crime punishable by death.

Gen. Robert Magnus, who served as assistant commandant of the Marine Corps until his retirement in 2008, was among the hundreds of retired officers who signed a letter to Obama from the Center for Military Readiness last year warning against a repeal of the policy.

"We sent the letter to the commander in chief because with this policy we have maintained good order and discipline and we see no grounds to change the law," said Magnus.

Magnus said that while he respects other countries, such as Israel and the U.K., that have allowed gays to openly serve, he does not believe their example informs what is best for the U.S.

In Israel, he pointed out, there is universal conscription for all healthy men and women. The Israeli military, which adopted its openly gay policy in the early 1990s, is a place where men and women often meet their future spouses and where dating is a common occurrence. It's part of the military culture. So creating equality for gays could be seen as making sense in that culture, Magnus said.

In the U.S. military, there is no tolerance for either heterosexual or homosexual relationships. There's a policy against any sexual relations in the service. It's not part of the culture, he said.

Similarly, U.S. Army Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis, who has studied the British military system and who was part of the impact study of the U.S. military prior to the 1993 "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, said, "I love the Brits, but they are very different from the U.S. military. They have a different culture."

Maginnis said that the British army is much smaller at only 100,000 troops compared to the U.S. military, which has an active service of 1.5 million and a reserve force of some 170,000.

"The Brits don't have the same force and the comparison just doesn't work," he said.

"You have to be globally aware. There are some practices in other parts of the world which are better than the U.S. military. And then you have to ask, if we did that would it work within our system?" asked Maginnis.

"When I look around the world, I'd say America is different," said Maginnis.

So in the end is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" another example of American "exceptionalism," that, as Maginnis would see it, shows the United States and its armed forces have a higher purpose, a different role in the world?

Or is it one more example of how we contradict our highest ideals of equality and justice for all in a way that is increasingly evident to so many of our allies?

The case of Lt. Daniel Choi, an openly gay Iraq war veteran who had to give up his military career last year as a much-needed Arabic language expert after he publicly stated his sexual orientation, defines the debate on a personal level.

"For me it is not about politics. This is my life and my platoon and my job," he said yesterday, speaking on CNN.

"We all agree on one thing. We want our military to be strong and to succeed. By kicking out valuable members of the force, I don't see how we achieve that ... . For me it is simple, people all around the world are asking how come America isn't ready to do this?"

Read more GlobalPost

FOLLOW HUFFPOST WORLD

By Charles Sennott BOSTON -- In many corners of the world, the policy on gays in the military could be labeled this way: "Don't Ask, Don't Care." In the military establishments of more than...
By Charles Sennott BOSTON -- In many corners of the world, the policy on gays in the military could be labeled this way: "Don't Ask, Don't Care." In the military establishments of more than...
Filed by Nicholas Sabloff  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 77
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
08:49 AM on 02/04/2010
It has been said that america engages in war to "protect their freedoms"...seems like america's war machine wants to pick and choose what "freedoms" they are protecting.
Isn't one's se.xu.al preference a freedom??
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JustMyWords
10:36 AM on 02/07/2010
Sexual orientation is not a preference.
10:39 AM on 03/03/2010
Hey, I've voted consistently in favor of Gay rights, I'm straight, but yeah, it is a freedom issue- once we get you guys on the road to societal acceptance and normality, will ya help us marijuana smokers to become citizens and people again too? Drug users are the newest in a long line of persecuted people.

It's my body, it's your body- who you sleep next to and what you put into it is your business.

Much luck, all.

"Free is free, no matter how you try to define it to fit your ideology, free means.... free!"

Quote by Me.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sprtakis69
Shouldn't all people be entitled to Equal rights?
07:26 AM on 02/04/2010
"In Israel, he pointed out, there is universal conscription for all healthy men and women. The Israeli military, which adopted its openly gay policy in the early 1990s, is a place where men and women often meet their future spouses and where dating is a common occurrence. It's part of the military culture. So creating equality for gays could be seen as making sense in that culture, Magnus said"

So here he is, another one who must think this is about wanting to have same sex sex while at work and not about the fear of being kicked out merely for being who you are.
08:46 AM on 02/04/2010
You'll also not that in Isreal "gays in the IDF have additional rights, such as the right to take a shower alone if they want to".

Should straight people in our military be given the same consideration here or should gays be given a "protected" status?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_service#Israel
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sprtakis69
Shouldn't all people be entitled to Equal rights?
09:28 AM on 02/04/2010
That depends. What does the military do right now during DADT? I mean, we're allowed to be in the military as long as we LIE about ourselves. So if we're allowed to be in the military then we're already showering next to str8 people.

I never saw anyone bolt when I walked into the locker room at my last command. I never saw someone walk in see me and leave. We simply got undressed showered, got dressed and went back to work all the while having grown up conversations.

When i and a fellow gay Sailor were in the locker room we didn't proceed to grope each other nor did we taunt the str8s who were present.

A minority in my command thought I was gay while the majority knew I was. When I retired from the Navy I was willing to bet thousands of dollars that my last 5 Navy Captains knew of my sexuality, yet none of them cared. I'm certain my last one did as he's a "friend" of mine of facebook.
07:24 AM on 02/04/2010
It's appauling that America still manages to restrict rights and liberties to Americans who are not heterosexual. It'll soon be 7 years that we are into this war with billions spent (on what? I'm not sure yet) and America can still afford to be picky about whom they let into their army just because of sexual orientation.
Their PRIVATE sex lives, their business!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
02:08 AM on 02/04/2010
"Or is it one more example of how we contradict our highest ideals of equality and justice for all in a way that is increasingly evident to so many of our allies?"

Yup. American hypocrisy is not really that subtle if you're looking at the world objectively.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VapeGirl
Progressive Democrat and proud of it!
02:58 AM on 02/04/2010
Yep, America talks a lot about equality and rights, but if you really look at it, it just isn't there. Once you are labeled, I guess something other than human, well you just lost some rights. I mean we all know that gays and lesbians must be less than human - right?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
12:23 AM on 02/04/2010
Gay folks protect your money, Gay folks vote, fighting your fires, protecting your streets, they are EVERYWHERE in this country. GAY FOLKS ARE. Why shouldn't they be protecting their country?
11:22 PM on 02/03/2010
What about the gays and lesbians in the Arab military?
11:38 PM on 02/03/2010
Huh? You mean from the country of Arab?
photo
Flying Dutchman
Don't judge what you don't yet understand
06:24 AM on 02/04/2010
I didn't, what a relief.
photo
Flying Dutchman
Don't judge what you don't yet understand
06:24 AM on 02/04/2010
Don't change the subject here. We were talking about intolerant American policies, don't try to divert the subject by starting about Arabs. Maybe Americans should fix their own mess first before they start pointing fingers to others. Arabs are easy scapegoats nowadays, but they don't have anything to do with US domestic politics about homosexuality, don't point fingers if you get criticized, it is so under developed...

(I wonder if the moderating-bot has any problems with the term "homosexuality", I'm gonna find out now)
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JustMyWords
10:48 AM on 02/07/2010
Although isn't it interesting that despite their proscriptions against homosexuality, that the culture is so accepting of open displays of affection between men? Men routinely kiss in greeting or hold hands, and nothing is thought twice. (I'm thinking that it would make it much easier to be a closeted gay - just act like the straight gays.)
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
knightoftheroundtable
Old Knight without porfolio or armor
11:03 PM on 02/03/2010
I am an old hetro sexual vet. Many gays served in the 1950's and unit integrity was not compromised. I believe this is a christian right wing agenda that is full of h. at.e which in truth goes against their teachings. I am atheist and just find so many problems come from religion.
10:13 PM on 02/03/2010
I think if the IDF can hang together with open homosexuality it is proof positive that it does not undermine an armies ability to fight.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
shryock
It never is what it is anymore
09:39 PM on 02/03/2010
"Or is it one more example of how we contradict our highest ideals of equality and justice for all in a way that is increasingly evident to so many of our allies?"

yes.

what we say and what we do are increasingly divergent.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
soisay
Angry? Scared? Thank a Republican.
10:44 PM on 02/03/2010
Not to stretch the point to breaking but, citizens of foreign countries can see when America's national actions do not match our advertised values. While US citizens often buy the sing-song prose, the political planks, the speeches and posturing, foreign citizens see right through our BS. When American's say "what is wrong with THEM?" it is often ethnocentric arrogance. Of course this blindness leads to terrible results. And more and more even admitting the existence of this double standard is enough for a vocal minority to brandish accusations of TREASN! Deaf, blind and proud.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chaimschwartz
08:53 PM on 02/03/2010
Anyone want to opine that gays in the IDF has hurt its ability to provide security for Israel??
photo
LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
09:08 PM on 02/03/2010
Well one thing's for certain. The fundamentalist Christians in the US are among Israel's staunchest supporters...and apparently never realize how much that country supports gay rights.
09:41 PM on 02/03/2010
Unless you're Palestinian. Then Israel tortures (legally), steals land and water, and terrorizes you. For a white supremacist rogue state and international arms merchant, Israel rocks.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chaimschwartz
09:43 PM on 02/03/2010
OK..NOW care to respond to my comment?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
donbrown
A television producer in Hawaii
07:43 PM on 02/03/2010
The truth is that our own military is held hostage to the attitudes of Southern whites who also didn't want the military integrated in 1948, and stood in its way for five years until 1953.

They are always the group whose backward attitudes have to be overcome to progress.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Godweiser
The eyes have it.
07:26 PM on 02/03/2010
Notice how the two generals contradict each other and tapdance around with spurious defenses;

Magnus: It works in Israel because they're a militarized society with a large military.
Maginnis: It works in the UK because they've got such a small military.

What is it, boys?

Oh, right, none of the above. Anyone here who has dealt with members of Canada's PPLI can attest that the Cannucks' competence is undiminished.

Anyway, gays have fought and fallen in the uniform since this country was founded, and I think it distasteful and a slap to all veterans and serving military members to claim that their service is only worthy so long as they're the right sexuality (or color, or religion.) What makes it more amusing is that, in the case of translators, they just pick up contractor jobs and we pay more. They're already working in the rest of government, why not the military, right?

In any case, we're at war and every swinging d i c k is needed. The military suffers when it loses experienced people who can lead, train and command, for whatever reason, and it suffers when high quality candidates are turned aside, particularly at the exhortation of a few civvies and some way-past-date retirees with a religious agenda.

But then, I tend to feel that if one doesn't believe in equal rights, they're just an American by accident of birth and nothing more to begin with.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
donbrown
A television producer in Hawaii
07:50 PM on 02/03/2010
The truth is that is works in other countru=ies because they don't have a bunch of stupid rednecks in the mix.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Godweiser
The eyes have it.
07:56 PM on 02/03/2010
It's an amusing irony that we're placating the kind of people that fought against the US in the Civil War.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cleanerman
07:23 PM on 02/03/2010
America is weird. Simply put.
07:11 PM on 02/03/2010
"They fear such a change could undercut recruitment in an all-volunteer army that is already overstretched"

Are you kidding me? Are they trying to insinuate that, some people who really want to join the military will refuse to do that simply because gays are allowed to serve openly?

Or some military personnel are going to retire or leave because gays will be allowed to server openly?

This argument does not hold water, they should look for another one.
07:16 PM on 02/03/2010
"Are they trying to insinuate that, some people who really want to join the military will refuse to do that simply because gays are allowed to serve openly?"

Yes.

Studies have to be made on the subject, so that a correct decision is made.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
09:50 PM on 02/03/2010
Any coward who would refuse to join the military for that reason should not be welcome in it.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sprtakis69
Shouldn't all people be entitled to Equal rights?
09:18 AM on 02/04/2010
Yes? That's ridiculous!

Do people join the military to support and defend their country or do they join because homosexuals aren't allowed to say they are homosexuals???

People join the military to support and defend!

Never in my 20 years in the Navy did I ever hear someone say, when asked why they joined the Navy, "because gays aren't allowed" not once!!!!

USN(ret)
89-90
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Godweiser
The eyes have it.
07:29 PM on 02/03/2010
There's already studies out...by the militaries that have done it. I imagine the Senate wants to send some beltway firm a free paycheck to merely confirm what is known or write a study that will flatter their denialistic view of the situation.
06:59 PM on 02/03/2010
It is better to say which country that is an Ally of the US that does not have openly gay soldiers serving?
It is a shorter list by far.
In this the rest of the world has led and the US is the follower.
Not much to be proud of here so called leader of the free world.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Godweiser
The eyes have it.
07:21 PM on 02/03/2010
Yeah, we're listed along such powerhouses as Saudi Arabia, whose forces would probably run away from an uprising of their own women if they decided they ever wanted to throw off the draperies, and the likes of Serbia, whose only military accomplishment was setting up r a p e camps in the 1990's and zapping civilians. Or the PLA and KPA, who are, after all, the armies of totalitarian regimes,.

Not very good company.