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Holder Picks Wrong Crowd For Defense Of Military Commissions

First Posted: 06/15/10 06:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 05:10 PM ET

Holder Military Commission
Eric Holder

Attorney General Eric Holder, whose decision to try 9/11 terror suspects in criminal court appears likely to be overruled by the White House political staff, tried his best to make the case for military commissions in a speech to the members of the Constitution Project on Thursday night.

He just didn't have much of an argument to make. And he was making it to the wrong crowd.

The Constitution Project, meeting for its annual dinner at the Mayflower Hotel, is a group of devoted defenders of the Constitution -- the kind of folks who ardently defend basic rights no matter how popular or unpopular, and regardless of politics.

Its membership's view on military commissions is pretty clear. As Ginny Sloan, the project's beloved director, assured Holder in her introductory remarks, "every member of the Constitution Project salutes your courageous commitment to the rule of law and to trying these cases in the federal courts."

So once Holder got going, it became apparent that he would have been better off speaking next door, where the Colonial Dames were holding their convention

Holder first declared that we are a nation at war, and that victory against our enemies will not come "if we approach this work by adhering to a rigid ideology or narrow methodology."

The audience full of rigid adherents to the Constitution didn't applaud.

Holder's basic argument was that we should "rely on the full scope of our law enforcement, intelligence, military and diplomatic capabilities to keep the American people safe. This means we must use both statecraft and war craft, both our criminal justice system and our military authorities, both our civilian courts and our military commissions, to defeat our enemies."

But military commissions aren't just constitutionally suspect, they also don't work. As President Obama accurately noted during the 2008 presidential campaign: "By any measure, our system of trying detainees has been an enormous failure. Over the course of nearly seven years, there has not been a single conviction for a terrorist act at Guantanamo. There has been just one conviction for material support for terrorism. Meanwhile, this legal black hole has substantially set back America's ability to lead the world against the threat of terrorism, and undermined our most basic values." Things haven't gotten much better since.

Holder also spoke of the value of civilian courts as a forum for terrorism trials, and those disquisitions were long and detailed. He described their extensive, successful track record, their advantages over military commissions, and their appropriateness.

He actually got some rousing applause for his declaration that "the proposal by some respected leaders in Congress to ban completely the use of civilian courts in prosecutions of terrorism-related activity obscures some basic facts and allows campaign slogans to overtake legal reality."

But whenever he got back around to trying to explain why one would ever pick a military commission over a civilian trial, he was at best amorphous. "When selecting between these two weapons, the choice should be based on a case-specific assessment of the threat at hand, the evidence in possession and a careful consideration of what will best allow us to achieve justice," he said.

And don't expect any specific rationales. "That choice is not always easy to make or easy to publicly explain, especially because court rules and intelligence equities sometimes make it impossible to discuss in an open forum the reasoning for a particular decision," he said.

Holder's defense of military commissions was ultimately less an argument than a series of assertions. "[M]ilitary commissions are also useful in the proper circumstances, and we need them, too," he said. "[I]n some cases, military commissions are not only appropriate, but also necessary to convict and neutralize terrorists."

The nicest thing he was able to say about them, really, was that they are a lot like civilian trials: "The truth is that the reformed commissions draw from the same Constitutional protections that underlie our civilian courts -- the key difference being that, in commissions, evidentiary rules reflect the realities of the battlefield and the difficulties of conducting investigations in a war zone."

Ultimately, he asked the audience to, well, join him in believing.

"I have faith in the framework and promise of our military commissions," he said, "which is why I've referred six cases to the reformed commissions for prosecution. And I expect to refer additional cases. "

When his remarks were over, he and his security detail made a beeline to the exit without taking any questions.

Sloan, the project's director -- and author of the recent essay, Prosecuting Terror Suspects in Federal Court: The Right Choice, tried to emphasize the positive. "I thought it was a pretty strong defense of Article III courts," she told HuffPost.

But even the night's honorees were critical. "I think that's the administration's position, and he was carrying the administration's water," said George Kendall, a New York attorney being recognized for his lifelong devotion to indigent citizens and prisoners whose rights to counsel were ignored by the criminal justice system.

"I don't agree with him, but I was interested in hearing what he had to say," said Thomas Pickering, the career diplomat who was lauded for his repeated calls for a commission to investigate post-September 11 detainee policies and for generally speaking out on the need to restore the rule of law and America's standing in the world community.

"Not a heckuva lot of applause during the last part of his speech," noted Thomas Tamm, the
whistleblower who exposed the Bush administration's warrantless surveillance program.

Some members were clearly dismayed -- but still hoped for the best.

"I was happy that the attorney general came and spoke to the Constitution Project, and I'm happy he emphasized in his speech the need for civil courts to address terror and terrorism cases," said E. Desmond Hogan, a partner at the Hogan and Hartson law firm.

"I was disappointed that the Justice Department plans to continue to refer additional cases to the military commissions without defining the specific reasons why military commissions are appropriate in the cases.

"But I'm hopeful that the attorney general's willingness to speak to an organization dedicated to the preservation of the Constitution shows that he will make all future decisions on this issue with the civil rights this country cherishes in mind."

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Attorney General Eric Holder, whose decision to try 9/11 terror suspects in criminal court appears likely to be overruled by the White House political staff, tried his best to make the case for milita...
Attorney General Eric Holder, whose decision to try 9/11 terror suspects in criminal court appears likely to be overruled by the White House political staff, tried his best to make the case for milita...
 
 
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05:04 AM on 04/22/2010
RAMstein commented on 4/16/10: "your government did not have a reasonable cause to arrest most of the Gitmo detainees."

Let's not confuse a premise with a conclusion. Opening-arguments aren't the same as a verdict, and an accusation is just conjecture, unless it's proven.

Think about it: Obama railed against Gitmo and related Bush-policies. If War-crimes charges aren't brought against Bush, it is because either the info they've become privy to exonerates Bush, or it indicts Dems, or would further damage our country. It's up to Obama to TELL US THE TRUTH, D*MMIT! We need a leader, not a mascot.


Our country deserves closure. How have we been lied to this time? Were people systematically tortured as per Orders from Head-quarters, or were the Abu Ghraib abuses simply the repercussions of our society's (and, hence, our military's) 'amoralization'? Does 'water-boarding' constitute torture (we do it to our own forces), or is it just a Big League form of tickling til they pee or say 'uncle'?

Regardless of what we'll admit to, we'll allow our Gov a fairly, wide berth in it's efforts to protect us, as long as we don't find out; once it becomes public, we'll deny, deny, deny. While we don't want citizens to be violated, deep-down-inside we know that we can't expect our Gov to be able to stop those who want to hurt us if we demand they adhere to the Girl-Scout hand-book.
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Willie12345
06:56 PM on 04/20/2010
Holder is an embarrassment to the Obama administration and need to be replaced as soon as practical.
01:45 PM on 04/17/2010
A big reason for a civilian trial is the image it presents to other jihadists and their propaganda arms. A military trial acknowledges the sheik as a SOLDIER - a valiant fighter in the cause of radical Islam. A civilian trial presents him as just a violent deranged CRIMINAL.

The whole response to 9/11 should have been in these terms, not as a "war" - it' too late to undo that now, but this trial can at least present the true picture.
01:07 PM on 04/16/2010
Mr. Obama and Mr. Holder are a tragic reflection of the last dictatorship. There isn't much difference between the two white house tenants.
12:57 PM on 04/16/2010
I believe Holder was a very enthusiastic supporter of the patriot act so I do not trust him on protecting civil liberties but in this case he will probably have to listen to the white house and cave in for political reasons.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FogBelter
Illegitimis non carborundum
12:48 PM on 04/16/2010
Where the Administration and the United States has a huge problem with the trials of Gitmo Detainees is in the probability that most of them were innocent, picked up in sweeps in Afghanistan and deposited under the title of "Worst of the Worst" in Gitmo to be tortured. Think a second, who would have first hand knowledge that the detainees are nobodies, without terrorist affiliation? That would be the US Lawyers assigned by the Government to defend them ... the one's that Liz Cheney is fond of referring to as the "al Qeada 7".

Where the Obama Administration has a problem is they approached the trials from the legal position, rather than as a National Security issue, probably because they weren't aware of the scope of the problem at the beginning. National Security not in terms of a threat of terrorism to the US, but to the United State's position as a world leader. The Bush Administration seizing innocent foreign nationals, and transporting them to an isolated location where they are tortured and murdered turns the United States into the textbook definition of a Rogue State.

War Crimes have obviously been committed by the Bush Administration, and bringing that information to light in a public trial would require the United States to prosecute the Administration figures involved, or risk the complete loss of credibility of the United States as anything but a imperialistic predator.

That reality puts Holder in a difficult position.
06:27 AM on 04/29/2010
What puts Holder in a difficult position is that fact that he was appointed by someone who was clueless as to the severity of terrorism, who campaigned with the immature rhetoric of a person who thought the only reason they want to hurt us is because of Bush/Gitmo (although they declared war on America and attacked us numerous times--under Clinton), and who isn't following through on the hype of his speeches when it comes to Immigration Reform and National Security (Arizona is "misguided" for trying to do HIS JOB--over a year after he said it would be his top priority). Holder shouldn't be a political player, but, the poor guy doesn't know which Obama he's working under now.

One thing's for sure, though: if/when we do have another terrorist attack, Holder/Obama will say it was "inherited". Same bull, different day.

If neither Obama nor the United Nations press War-Crime charges against Bush/Cheney, then maybe the actuality wasn't as "obvious" as your current interpretation. But, even if he doesn't bring those charges, I'm sure Obama's supporters will always think Bush should be in The Hague, and Obama simply wanted to save the country the embarassment. What-a-guy.
12:37 PM on 04/16/2010
I guess it is true, you reap what sow
12:29 PM on 04/16/2010
Am I missing something here? Wasn't it Obama and Holder who wanted to try the 9-11 suspects in Federal Court in NYC? Didn't everybody scream bloody murder when they wanted the legal system in America to do it's job instead of try them in military tribunals? I guess politics trumps the legal system again.....they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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bobdob
Chug-a-lug, chug-a-lug
12:37 PM on 04/16/2010
No. President Obama and AG Holder are always wrong, no matter what they do. Because they're always up against bullheaded absolutists on one side of the political spectrum or the other. The far left and the far right are two sides of the same coin.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Coinyer101
King of Doobiestan
12:26 PM on 04/16/2010
He and this administration suck in this area....., too wimpy to do the right thing when it comes to trials of tourrorists, and too wimpy when it comes to prosecuting warcriminals from the previous adm., and too wimpy in their defense of ongoing gay rights litigation......,


The DOJ is 'bush-lite'...., period.
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devildog21
"War is a Racket" -Smedley D. Butler MajGen USMC
01:43 PM on 04/16/2010
As I pointed out in an earlier post, they are totally lacking any political courage and I got lambasted for it.

Apparently it's more important to be sure you can get reelected than to uphold the rule of law.
06:33 PM on 04/16/2010
Of course it is; just remember Mr Nixon.
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devildog21
"War is a Racket" -Smedley D. Butler MajGen USMC
12:10 PM on 04/16/2010
If Holder wants a friendly audience, he should just go on Faux Noise. They and their ill informed viewers are the only ones who think military commissions are a good thing.
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bobdob
Chug-a-lug, chug-a-lug
12:17 PM on 04/16/2010
It has nothing to do with whether military commissions are a "good" thing. It has to do with whether they are a sometimes-necessary evil. They are.
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devildog21
"War is a Racket" -Smedley D. Butler MajGen USMC
01:41 PM on 04/16/2010
They may well be a necessary evil at times, but they are not necessary in this case. If we can't find the courage to put them on trial and let them go if they're not proven guilty, we're just proving to the world that we really don't believe in our own rule of law.

For al Queda recruiters, it really makes their job easier because we simply prove their lies for them. Except they are no longer lies, because we apparently don't believe in our own rule of law.
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okim5150
I only drink to make you more interesting
02:01 PM on 04/16/2010
Exactly! What was he thinking going to the Constitution Project and pitching his plan to stomp the Constitution?
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WillofthePeople
Do YOU consent to toxic govt? Change ur thinking!!
12:00 PM on 04/16/2010
What we need is a GRAND JURY to indict all the perpetrators and accomplices for war crimes AND OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE (Holder, Obama, et al... all the way back thru the Bushes). That's what Grand Juries are for. The Justice Dept today is the OBSTRUCTION of JUSTICE Department. The Grand Jury system is where to get started.

If you don't consent to war crimes or obstruction of justice, Google "EXERCISING our RIGHT to CONSENT".
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bobdob
Chug-a-lug, chug-a-lug
11:55 AM on 04/16/2010
The problem with holding "principled positions" is that it can lose you the election. So you hold firm and do the right thing and the end result is Republican control of Congress and the White House. But you stuck to your guns, and that's all that counts. And you can sleep soundly at night, knowing that all is well in the world and President Palin is in charge.
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devildog21
"War is a Racket" -Smedley D. Butler MajGen USMC
12:08 PM on 04/16/2010
Right. You want to be very careful about having any political courage. The only people who believe that military commissions are the right thing to do are the same ones who watch Faux Noise every night.
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bobdob
Chug-a-lug, chug-a-lug
12:14 PM on 04/16/2010
BS. You know nothing about me. Clearly. The point Holder is trying to get at, without actually stating it, is that many of these prisoners were tortured under the Bush administration. That make it very difficult to try them in a civil court, because it means that even if they are guilty as hell, they could be released because of the way they were questioned. The Bush years were a nightmare. And they left behind plenty of evidence. I understand that you'd like that evidence to come out in court so you can have your revenge against the worst President in America's history. But at what cost?
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okim5150
I only drink to make you more interesting
02:04 PM on 04/16/2010
If they upheld the Constitution and were able to successfully prosecute these folks in civilian court, I think it would be a win, win. Win one, they would make good on their promise to close Gitmo and stop the military kangaroo courts. Win two, with the bad guys convicted and serving their time the scaredey cat conservatives couldn't say that they were soft on terror.
11:55 AM on 04/16/2010
How pathetic... debating the legal right of a terrorist. Overtly idealistic at best foolish at worest.
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bobdob
Chug-a-lug, chug-a-lug
12:09 PM on 04/16/2010
Many accused terrorists have been tried in civilian courts and the world has not ended. The fact is NO ONE knows if these people are terrorists--including you--BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TRIED YET. Many of them haven't even been charged. I don't understand the thinking of people who assume someone is guilty simply because they were arrested. Do you suppose everyone who is arrested is automatically guilty? I think that's the way they do it in China, Iran and North Korea. Here in America, the founding fathers set up the presumption of innocence for a reason.
12:33 PM on 04/16/2010
enemy combatant, foreign terrorist call them what you will do not deserve the benefit of a doubt. If my government have a reasonable cause to arrest them then my conscience is clear.

As far as china's policy with regards to terrorist concern may be we should emulate them since it has been very effective as they have not been targeted by terrorist.

Lastly I do not look up to the founding fathers for moral or legal guidance as they are former slave holders which shows a profund lack of judgment
01:07 AM on 05/01/2010
You address a very valid concern, regarding the presumption of innocence being the American Way.

However, part of the difficulty with this issue is that the "suspects" actually fall into several possible categories: unlawful combatant (non-uniformed militants--indistinguishable from civilians--caught in acts of aggression against countries/civilians and captured by military/Feds); civilians (both foreign and nationals) suspected of aiding and abetting declared enemies of state; and unknowns (mistaken identities or those accompanying combatants). All of these fall under different laws and policies.

Holder is correct in saying we need to deal with them on individual basis; that we can't treat them all with the same policies because some of them definitely ARE GUILTY!
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okim5150
I only drink to make you more interesting
02:05 PM on 04/16/2010
Rights are rights. If they don't have rights, you don't have rights.
02:34 AM on 04/23/2010
If you're referring to non-citizens, that is incorrect. While all are welcome to become American citizens (or, even a temp-resident/visitor), they are not priviledged to all the rights that we have as citizens (voting, office-holding, Social Security.) just by stepping on our soil.

If you're referring to the general principle of human-rights (dignity, freedom of speech/religion), you bring up a good point. The catch is, which category does the trying of alleged-conspirators of war against America fall into? If they are simply suspects, they should be given the opportunity to prove their innocence. However, for those caught by our military/CIA commiting an aggressive act against our country, the kid-gloves are off, because we've seen the consequences of waiting around to watch their next plan happen. We know better than to treat them like unrelated punks; they are part of a world-wide network that is pursuing our demise, and every one that we catch needs to be interrogated like your family's safety depends on it--because it does...times a few million.

What "rights" would you show the man you caught trying to break into your child's bedroom-window? Would you risk violating his dignity, if it meant not letting him get away? See, rights can be forfeited.

Those accountable for the safety of all of us can't be BOTH restricted in their efforts to the point they can't do their job AND then condemned if they fail.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Guitarsandmore
devoted father, community activist, musician, reti
11:41 AM on 04/16/2010
Ten Steps to Fascism

10 steps to closing down a democracy

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external threat.
2. Create a secret prison system with torture, military tribunals, outside the rule of law.
3. Create a paramilitary force (just like Blackwater).
4. Create a surveillance apparatus for ordinary citizens. (creates fear)
5. Arbitrarily detain and release ordinary citizens. (creates fear)
6. Infiltrate citizens groups. (reduces trust level of citizens)
7. Restrict the press. (control media)
8. Target key individuals (journalists, union leaders, anti war activists )
9. Recast criticism as espionage and dissent as treason.
10. Subvert the rule of law (declare marshal law).

The End of America – Naomi Wolf
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devildog21
"War is a Racket" -Smedley D. Butler MajGen USMC
12:07 PM on 04/16/2010
I'd say we have about 8 of those checked off.

"When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

- Sinclair Lewis
02:30 PM on 04/16/2010
10 - That's *martial* law.
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Dredd
Our government is a wartocracy.
11:23 AM on 04/16/2010
I'm afraid I would not have applauded Holder either.

He has too much Bush II policy on his brain.

The people have rejected that in the past two elections.

When are Holder and Obama going to realize that the people do not like bushism?

http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2010/04/us-mythology-trance-military-justice.html