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College For All? Experts Say Not Necessarily

ALAN SCHER ZAGIER   05/13/10 05:23 PM ET   AP

College For All

COLUMBIA, Mo. — In a town dominated by the University of Missouri's flagship campus and two smaller colleges, higher education is practically a birthright for high school seniors like Kate Hodges.

She has a 3.5 grade-point-average, a college savings account and a family tree teeming with advanced degrees. But in June, Hodges is headed to the Tulsa Welding School in Oklahoma, where she hopes to earn an associate's degree in welding technology in seven months.

"They fought me so hard," she said, referring to disappointed family members. "They still think I'm going to college."

The notion that a four-year degree is essential for real success is being challenged by a growing number of economists, policy analysts and academics. They say more Americans should consider other options such as technical training or two-year schools, which have been embraced in Europe for decades.

As evidence, experts cite rising student debt, stagnant graduation rates and a struggling job market flooded with overqualified degree-holders. They pose a fundamental question: Do too many students go to college?

"College is what every parent wants for their child," said Martin Scaglione, president and chief operating officer of work force development for ACT, the Iowa-based not-for-profit best known for its college entrance exam. "The reality is, they may not be ready for college."

President Barack Obama wants to restore the country's status as the world leader in the proportion of citizens with college degrees. The U.S. now ranks 10th among industrial nations, behind Canada, Japan, Korea and several European countries.

But federal statistics show that just 36 percent of full-time students starting college in 2001 earned a four-year degree within that allotted time. Even with an extra two years to finish, that group's graduation rate increased only to 57 percent.

Spending more time in school also means greater overall student debt. The average student debt load in 2008 was $23,200 – a nearly $5,000 increase over five years. Two-thirds of students graduating from four-year schools owe money on student loans.

And while the unemployment rate for college graduates still trails the rate for high school graduates (4.9 percent versus 10.8 percent), the figure has more than doubled in less than two years.

"A four-year degree in business – what's that get you?" asked Karl Christopher, a placement counselor at the Columbia Area Career Center vocational program. "A shift supervisor position at a store in the mall."

At Rock Bridge High School, one of Columbia's two high schools, 72 percent of the class of 2008 moved on to four-year colleges, with another 10 percent attending community college. That college attendance rate is consistent with national statistics.

Only 4 percent of Rock Bridge students chose technical training like the Oklahoma welding school where Hodges is headed.

Roughly 1,200 students from central Missouri take classes at the career center, supplementing their core high school courses with specialized training in automotive technology, culinary arts, animal science, robotics, landscape design, electrical wiring and more.

Hodges has been set on a welding career since she was 13. She craves independence and has little patience for fellow students who seem to wind up in college more from a sense of obligation than anything else.

"School is what they've been doing their whole lives," she said. "So they just want to continue. Because that's what they are used to."

Sue Popkes doesn't hide her disappointment over her younger daughter's decision. At the same time, she realizes that Hodges may achieve more financial security than a college degree could ever provide.

"It's sad to know she's going to miss that mind-opening effect of an undergraduate degree," Popkes said. "To discover new ideas, to become more worldly."

Ohio University economics professor Richard Vedder blames the cultural notion of "credential inflation" for the stream of unqualified students into four-year colleges. His research has found that the number of new jobs requiring college degrees is less than number of college graduates.

Vedder's work also yielded something surprising: The more money states spend on higher education, the less the economy grows – the reverse of long-held assumptions.

"If people want to go out and get a master's degree in history and then cut down trees for a living, that's fine," he said, citing an example from a recent encounter with a worker. "But I don't think the public should be subsidizing it."

Margaret Spellings, former federal education secretary under George W. Bush, remains a strong proponent of increased college access. She points to research showing that college graduates will on average earn $1 million more over a lifetime than those with only high school degrees.

"It is crucial to the success of our country and to us as individuals to graduate more students from college," she said at a National Press Club forum earlier this year. "We Americans greatly believe that education is the great equalizer."

For many, the dream of earning a college degree – and the social acceptance that comes with that accomplishment – trumps a more analytical, cost-benefits approach.

John Reynolds, a Florida State sociology professor, found that unrealized educational expectations do not lead to depression or other long-term emotional costs.

"Rich kids, poor kids, 'A' students, 'C' students – we really didn't find any lasting impact on not getting the degree," he said.

Scaglione suggested that nothing short of a new definition for educational success is needed to diminish the public bias toward four-year degrees. He advocates "certification as the new education currency – documentation of skills as opposed to mastering curriculum."

"Our national system is, 'Do you have a degree or not?'" he said. "That doesn't really measure if you have skills."

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01:47 PM on 05/25/2010
Mr. Scaglione says "...a new definition for educational success is needed to diminish the public bias toward four-year degrees." That can only happen when companies stop using the degree - bachelor's or master's -- as the cut-off point for revieweing resumes. Many companies that are most desireable places to work require an MBA to even make the first cut. The solution to that is networking before you graduate. Meet people at the company you want to hire you and get to know them. A resume with a degree will get you in the "read" pile, but if the reader doesn't know who you are, then you are just a another piece of paper with a degree. Get out there and meet people if you want a dream job after college.
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NeverRepublican
Earthling growing my own
09:37 PM on 05/24/2010
Higher Education is a required human expectation.

NOW, STOP THE LEAK!
01:34 AM on 05/16/2010
The point of college is to learn how to learn. In college I learned how to take control of my life, I think its one of the most important things I ever learned. Technical colleges and classes are great. I am taking a blood drawing class for work. I could then just get a job drawing blood, but I am also going back to business school. I think its all relative, if you are content working in one specialized field for years at a time making just enough to live. Go ahead and do that. But life is all about luck. so you could argue that no one should even got to highschool. Just invent something and be in the right place at the right time and you could make millions.

Lame,
I think the only reason they are saying this is so that is un levels the playing field. There are too many kids going to college for the Jobs that college prepares you for. The real problem is college isn't enough these days. These days you need a college degree to stand out and get hired at a Starbucks.
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Senseid
12:59 AM on 05/16/2010
Whatever you do, don't drop $200,000 for a medieval studies, geography, (any country) studies, comparative lit, (any period) history degree, or...you get the idea.
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mediamarv
1-2-3 Is this thing working?
04:52 PM on 05/15/2010
Let me guess.... all those "experts" all have 4 year degrees. LOL at their silliness.
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DavidWyld
Professor of Management
07:41 AM on 05/15/2010
Bad news for those of us who draw our paychecks in higher education. But, it is simply a matter of not being in tune with changing market realities. If you can deliver a product - in this case a student who graduates with a degree - and skills and knowledge - that are in demand, he or she will be successfully. Too much emphasis on what's going on inside the walls of the institution and not enough attention to the changing marketplace - of ideas and of economics - have brought us to this point. All the talk about 3-year degree programs today is just a band-aid approach to handling the bigger issues involved.

David http://wyld-business.blogspot.com/
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farmilyman
everything is illusion
05:26 AM on 05/15/2010
Colleges are not beholden to corporations like Monsanto for donations so you're not going to get a real unbiased education anyway.
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farmilyman
everything is illusion
05:31 AM on 05/15/2010
I meant now beholden.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MJVs Common Sense
Lawyer, Intellectual, Author, Amateur Historian
03:27 AM on 05/15/2010
I will never understand people's obsession with money and practical education. I have two degree in the social sciences, and I'm about to get my first degree (J.D.) in something that general society has deemed "practical." Apparently I need to remind people that the problem isn't students going into fields that don't pay well, it is that a lot of those fields SHOULD pay better but don't because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU, whose lack of respect affects how they are paid. Like teachers. People forget that education is a social science, and we pay teachers like crap. should we just get rid of education or relegate teachers to two years associates degrees? are you really comfortable with your children learning from someone like that? I'm not, but then again, my parents suffered to send me to one of the best private schools in my home state, so maybe my incredible educational background biases me toward not being stupid.

How about instead of devastating the fields that don't pay well, we start asking the bigger questions, like why they don't pay well and how we can change that? or why we prefer a single new F-15 over fully endowing a college/university so their students can attend without loans. Getting rid of the "soft" sciences and humanities isn't the answer. Don't forget that without the fields that don't pay well we wouldn't have teachers, writers, musicians, and about a thousand other professionals we take for granted.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MJVs Common Sense
Lawyer, Intellectual, Author, Amateur Historian
03:28 AM on 05/15/2010
And by the way, Yes, there are some of us out there who take out loans knowing it will be hard to pay them back. But we do it because we love what we do and the money isn't our primary motivator. Please, don't pin your money hang ups on all of us.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Mahi Joe
Think critically...not blindly conform
06:23 AM on 05/16/2010
I have a similar background as you, 2 B.A.s and an MS and even though I work in a field totally unrelated to what any of my degrees were in I use that knowledge I learned everyday. I have owned my own successful business for over 25 years now and could never have achieved my goals without the knowledge I obtained in the two universities I attended.

The thing I like most of a 4 year institution is the fact the skills you learn can be applied across many fields whereas, with a 2 year program stressing just one particular area of study limits you to just that, that one particular skill.
12:04 AM on 05/15/2010
My parents had menial jobs and wasn't able to help me pay for college. Instead, I opted going to a regular university and choose a community college nearby. I worked part-time to help my parents and myself while attending school full-time and majoring in electronics engineering technology. While in school, I accumulated years of internships related to my skills/major with or without pay just to get my feet wet. After a year of working after graduation, I decided to go back to a university and finish my bachelor in Electrical Engineering. Right now, I have two semesters left to finish my degree in EE. My cost of attendance in my university is $30K/year because I'm out of state student. Instead of private loans, I applied for a job in my university, which graciously offers tuition reduction to its staff. Due to my worked experiences, they offered me the job and accepted it. And instead of paying $30K/year, I'm only paying $300/year to cover my tuition and fees while my salary mostly cover my rents, utilities, and others. I'm also receiving federal grants on top of that, so I'll be graduating with little debt, which I could pay off in a year. If I'm not in a university right now, I would probably go back to community college and take radiology technician for my second degree. If you are taking non-science, non-engineering, or non-business degree, go to a community college instead.
10:57 PM on 05/14/2010
I can not help, but agree with the experts there alot jobs now where earn good money without the 4- year college degree unless going other careers. Also look at number students when huge amounts of debt, I mean is this message we sending to youth go to school for years and spend rest your life paying back debt and not able send your kids to school in the future.
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Sparky Mahoney
08:51 PM on 05/14/2010
Anything that isn't in the hard sciences is a waste of time an money. Oh sure, it's interesting, but nothing can't learn on your own for free. All my blue collar buddies who are professional tradesmen make way more bank than your average college graduate and they're usually a lot happier to boot - not to mention in a lot better shape. My pops is a master carpenter who became a contractor 10 years ago and he makes huge bank compared to my moms, who has her MBA and is an exec for a bank. My brother is a master electrician and he makes over 100k a year. One of my best friends is a printer - works the big 6 colour Heidleberg presses - and he cleared 225k last year with OT. They're all high school dropouts who did their 4 year apprenticeships with the unions. So, they were getting paid to learn. So unless you're going to be a doctor, or engineer or the like, or will be content being middle-management all your life, screw college. Don't get me wrong, knowledge is a wonderful thing, but not at the rates colleges are charging for it.
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farmilyman
everything is illusion
05:30 AM on 05/15/2010
You are absolutely right. It's a secret in our society. People with skills make money and people with "education" have debt and low paying jobs.
05:52 PM on 05/16/2010
Emperical stats belie your conclusion. Those with a degree on average earn $1,000,000 more than those without a degree over the course of their lives. People with an education also have specific skills related to their field of endeavor.
06:55 PM on 05/14/2010
I graduated high school with a solid 1.7 GPA cause I hated school and wanted to just be done with it. I went to a trade school the last two years of high school to LEARN Computer Repair. I've run into far too many college grads that can't grasp the simplest mechanical and electrical concepts. Many of them were so sure that they were superior I had the honour of watching them repeatedly fail and do stupid things because they had no real SKILLS. Others astounded by my great skill and knowledge would ask me "where did you go to college at?" When I tell them that I did not go to college they would say "That's a shame" Why is it a shame that I skipped four years of drudgery and thousands of dollars of debt to learn things that have nothing to do with my profession? I can just as easily crack a book open and learn everything a college can teach for just the price of the book (free if it's at the library). No It's a shame that people pay so much to learn something when most knowledge is free for the taking. It's a shame that people keep pumping money into these institutions that cannot deliver on their lofty promises of high pay later in life. It's a shame that skilled hard working people can't rate with idiots holding master's degrees in all night cramming with a minor in keggers and bong hits.
06:52 PM on 05/14/2010
The article mentions blue collar jobs, but pretty soon a college degree will be required for those jobs. The job market is not so good for recent college grads, but it definitely isn't good for young people without it.
07:04 PM on 05/14/2010
From my experience working around college grads in blue collar jobs, I'll wager that any blue collar outfit that hires degreed plumbers and electricians exclusively will go under in short order. There's nothing quite like watching the lofty graduate fall from grace because they're work is substandard and results in massive losses for the business owner. The back peddling and finger pointing they do to cover their incompetence is entertaining too.
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MJVs Common Sense
Lawyer, Intellectual, Author, Amateur Historian
03:35 AM on 05/15/2010
I wonder how much of the joy you take in watching "graduates" suffer is A) just a natural human need to see others fail, or B) a vicious and pathetic manifestation of your jealousy and feelings of insecurity that society (and, indeed, most of the rest of us) think they are better than you. You offend.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Mahi Joe
Think critically...not blindly conform
06:33 AM on 05/16/2010
Why put down people because they chose to get 4 year university education? Next time you find yourself in court, hire a plumber to defend you. I am sure if you need medical attention a good carpenter will be much more competent to do surgery on you than a licensed doctor.

Aquistion of knowledge never was about money, it was all about aquisition of knowledge.
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Sparky Mahoney
08:56 PM on 05/14/2010
Join the union for the trade you want to get into and get paid to learn over your 4 year apprenticeship. And I have an honors degree in history/poly sci and I make more money as a bartender and server at a high end restaurant than I ever would putting my degree to work for the government. I make 1000 a week on average in grats, and another 300 in wage and that's a 4 day work week. I could make more if I wanted to work harder, but I dig 3 day weekends and I make more than enough for my needs.
10:49 PM on 05/14/2010
Unions? What unions? Don't you know that Republicans have been working hard for many decades to make sure that the laws are stacked against unions? They don't even want unions to exist, much less to have any role in training workers. Why, those pesky unions are always demanding outrageous, unAmerican things like decent working conditions and a living wage!
06:46 PM on 05/14/2010
It up for the individual to weigh if the benefits outweigh the costs of going to college.
07:11 PM on 05/14/2010
Unfortunately it's not. The un-proportional emphasis on a degree outweighs the reality of what it actually delivers. Sure, degrees get a persons foot in the door for employment, but they don't deliver an employee with real skills, and worse it gives employers a prospective employee who has just spent the last four years being ingrained with an institutional mindset. Advanced English Comprehension doesn't help a man strike a bead with a welder, and Algebra will not reveal the mysterious inner workings of an internal combustion engine.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MJVs Common Sense
Lawyer, Intellectual, Author, Amateur Historian
03:38 AM on 05/15/2010
Maybe it's not about what employers want or skill building for potential employment. maybe that student just wants to know something. maybe as a society we like it when people know stuff. anybody can hit a nail with hammer, or learn menial labor skills, but it's always nice when their head is filled with other things too. it may not be practical, but having a well rounded citizenry is always kinda nice.
06:00 PM on 05/16/2010
What Major do you know of that doesn't offer the learning of a specific skill set to the 4 year college graduate. Are you claiming that teachers have no skills? Do you think an accountant has no skills? What about your doctor, your dentist, or your pharmacists. The student who graduates from a University without a skill set shouldn't have graduated.
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AsISaid
04:53 PM on 05/14/2010
A four-year stint in college is at least a year too long. A lot of wasted classes - meaning wasted time and money. I wasted time and money in this manner in getting my degree - and so have my children in obtaining theirs.

Everyone that goes to college believes that riches lie just beyond the dais after receiving the diploma. They are told by their parents, whose generation DID benefit from a college degree, that it will provide a better life. Their expectations are high and most expect to earn more money than they are worth without experience.

Most personnel geeks that employers hire that I know personally discount experience. They hire far less qualified people if they produce a degree. New blood is brought in to manage far more experience people - but they are book smart but have no practical experience.

It's great to have a college degree. It's an accomplishment. But it's not everything.