More Veterans Choose For-Profit And Community Colleges Under GI Bill

Under the post-9/11 GI Bill, many veterans are electing to go to for-profit and community colleges, new data from the Department of Veterans Affairs reveals.

The Chronicle of Higher Education has more:

Among the 15 institutions that enrolled more than 1,000 students who used the new GI Bill's benefits from October to May, seven were for-profits and five were community colleges. In 2007, nine of the top 15 under the previous Montgomery GI Bill, as it was called, were for-profits, and three were community colleges.

A total of 270,666 students used the new benefits in 2009-10. Veterans and college officials say cost, convenience, geography, and support systems were significant factors in veterans' college decisions.

The for-profit University of Phoenix attracted the most veterans under the bill, with more than 10,000 in total attending. This year's data set does not differ much from last year's, in which vets cited cost and convenience as their main reasons for choosing for-profit and community colleges.

What's your take on this? Weigh in below.

Comments

[EduMilitary]

11:13 AM on 06/16/2010

I work with the Military and 9 schools that came together to provide increased access to service members, their spouses and families. The overwhelming need is for convenience - they have unpredictable schedules and need programs that can accomodate military uncertainties. One other comment is that the article understates the actual size of the military market. More service members are using Military Tuition Assistance for their educational needs and transferring the Post 9/11 GI Bill to their spouses and children. With that kind of volume, state schools need to get moving. www.edumilitary.blogspot.com

[MJVs Common Sense]

02:41 AM on 06/16/2010

whoever wrote this seems to have missed the class in journalism school where they learned to ask "why?" In fact, s/he seems to have unwittingly answered that question, but doesn't seem to have realized it, or explored it in any depth.

I think the most important part of this entire article is where they report that "cost and convenience" are the primary motivators for the change over.

So sure, it could be that servicemen/women don't want to live in the dorms, etc. But more likely it's because the GI Bill of today doesn't provide for a full bachelors education. In fact, it only provides enough funding for a few years of it. So, instead you can opt to pursue a full Associates Degree or a degree from a for-profit school (and I, for one, have nothing against for profit education. For some people, especially non-tradition students, it is a very appropriate choice).

I'm curious why more people are not a little more annoyed at the fact that we are not covering the full cost of a Bachelor's Degree at one of the top universities in the country. I know we don't have an unlimited budget, but you'd think that providing a solid education for servicemen and women would be a worth use of our countries resources.

[clevernamehere]

05:51 AM on 06/16/2010

The top universities in the country like Harvard and Yale cost $30K+ a year for tuition alone. Meanwhile, many excellent state universities cost under $10K a year.

I am in favor of the GI Bill but that $20k difference a year could be put towards things like the health care bill or safer equipment for the troops overseas.

People are not making the choice between 4 years at U of Phoenix and 2 years at a community college on the basis of cost. U of Phoenix charges $300-400 per credit while community colleges generally charged $100-300 per credit. And the credits you earn at a community college are much more likely to transfer.

University of Phoenix

[am10]

08:44 AM on 06/16/2010

Good point. I've got to say though that while University of Phoenix and Kaplan get the "for profit" label, most schools (including state) today have become about profit.

[wendelswerk]

10:45 AM on 06/16/2010

If you don't know there is a real difference between "For Profit" colleges and the "Not For Profit" Types. For Profits have within their business plan the necessity to make money through the high cost of tuition. Most non profits don't have that as a business plan. They rely on tuition and fees to cover costs, as all do, but they rely heavily on support from states, donors and gifts to keep the doors open. This allows them to have the education of students as their primary mission. Take any of the best "For Profit" colleges and the best "Not For Profits" and their is no doubt that the quality of education is better at Not For Profit. This doesn't make sense, because as a For Profit you should be able to simply purchase the best professors on the market, but they don't. They rely heavily on instructors that have "Day" jobs and teach at night and are not too concerned with the backgrounds and training of their instructors. The only purpose for attending a For Profit University is if you live in a remote part of the world and you can do it all on line. No other reason to pay $80,000 for a degree not worth the paper its written on.

[Ted Spencer]

11:04 PM on 06/15/2010

It has to do with transferability of credits for coursework done in the military. For example, I spent 9 years in the U.S. Navy with a specialty in nuclear power. This meant that I spent two years of fairly intensive study learning physics, chemistry, trig, and other very technical courses. That course of study, combined with my years of operational and supervisory experience, don't transfer to most public or private colleges or universities in California- except for Boot Camp, which counts for three units of PE credits. Meanwhile, my friends attending ITT or Phoenix are 30-40 semester hours ahead of me.

If more public universities want veteran students attending their campuses, they need to reevaluate their policies towards giving us credit for the skills and knowledge we already come through the door possessing.

[clevernamehere]

05:54 AM on 06/16/2010

The issue isn't traditional colleges luring in service members. Many community and state colleges have to turn away students because of funding issues.

It is service members who are hurt by for profit colleges because the degrees are not as well respected and some employers will not hired ITT or U of Phoenix grads. Meanwhile, the cost more than many community and state colleges.

[chemguy]

07:10 PM on 06/15/2010

For-profit colleges and community colleges: its weird that they would be lumped together. Community colleges offer solid trade school educations and affordable gateways to higher education. For-profit school are vastly overpriced with dubious educational value. They automatically pass every student because doing otherwise means losing a customer. The only thing these two types of institution have in common is a lower bar for admission than traditional schools, which is a common denominator that no one will mention because imply some negative connotations about why veterans would choose those schools.

[The Albany Kid]

09:49 PM on 06/15/2010

Co-sign

[erl92]

11:42 AM on 06/16/2010

To say that For-Profit schools automatically pass every student is a goofy statement to make and simply not true. I've been to both schools. I've seen people not pass in for-profit schools. I've also seen public schools pass people who shouldn't. In fact Harvard has been criticized for basically selling A's. However I would not advise anyone to go to for-profit schools. They are for-profit mostly. On the other hand I am not for other things in colleges like tenure.There should only be one accreditation system in this country so that credits can easily be transfered. If you go to a for-profit you can't transfer credits which is a big drawback. In public schools they don't have to go to class if they don't want. In many public schools if you get A's thru the year you don't have to take a final. That doesn't happen in for-profit schools. You go to class and you take finals and that's the way it should be. Nothing should be given out in either one.

[chemguy]

12:36 PM on 06/16/2010

There's a lot of confusion in your post. For starters, Harvard is not a public school. Second, we have separate accreditation systems for a reason, because not all schools are equal. That's a hard truth that many people refuse to accept and that University of Phoenix types try to deny. But there's no way to have a one-size fits all education and attempts to do so usually fail.

[ShanniC]

07:03 PM on 06/15/2010

I am glad that Veterans are using the GI Bill to attend college, but I wish that someone would tell them to avoid the scam that is for-profit schools. The rigor of the coursework typically lacks the quality of community colleges, and other non-profit institutions. Moreover, a degree from a for profit is not as highly regarded and is certainly more expensive. I think that we should encourage Veterans to attend reputable educational institutions, not some of these advertised on TV type of schools such as ITT Tech, UoPheonix, Westwood, etc etc.

[Ted Spencer]

08:47 PM on 06/17/2010

The amount of extremely aggressive recruiting the for-profit schools gear towards sevicemembers and veterans, who have a virtually unlimited source of funding, is to the point of being abusive, if not illegal (as seen here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127105871). However, what little educational counseling being done for military members while they're still in the service or about to separate focuses on how to use the training and skills they've already acquired to finish some kind of degree from some school as quickly as possible. Not about the long-term consequences, drawbacks, or benefits. Again, the for-profit schools win that round. As I've previously stated, it comes down to public and private universities needing to acknowledge and transfer the credits for military courses already completed. The American Council on Education has an extensive database of equivalencies and re-evaluates every few years- why are so few public universities making use of this?

[runfellow]

06:21 PM on 06/15/2010

I'm puzzled by a couple of the comments here regarding non-traditional schools. I can certainly see why soldiers returning would eschew the idea of dorm life, and community college is great, but to assume that most traditional schools don't have non-trad programs for students is ludicrous. I live in the DFW area, and there are major public universities everywhere within commuting difference with large non-traditional student bases.

To assume that for some reason most universities couldn't do what schools like Phoenix University offers (night classes, online stuff, part-time schooling) is downright absurd. Frankly, I'd rather have a soldier go to a university that DOESN'T charge an arm and a leg for a degree that won't really mean as much as from a real, accredited (and no, 1978 accreditation before the school went sell-out is not true accreditation) university.

I suppose it's their choice, but I'd just rather see something better coming from tax dollars than a pointless degree from UPhoenix.

[agxphoto]

04:16 PM on 06/15/2010

Many of these for-profit colleges have been heavily marketed to servicemen; on one hand, they have a genuine set of adult student needs not met by most land grant universities. On the other hand, the business model many of these schools use to run their operations shows the disregard they have for the students. Too many tales of skyrocketing financial costs and outrageous bills.

[am10]

02:56 PM on 06/15/2010

They've been away from home for a while so I can see them wanting to stick around or be in one place...hence community or online colleges.

I'm not sure what ages the vets in this article are, but I'm thinking many are fairly focused and are not looking for the dorm life college experience.

[Ranger518Z]

05:53 PM on 06/15/2010

Well said. I am in my 40's and I could care less about dorm life. Community colleges offer subjects that will enhance my career.

[am10]

06:09 PM on 06/15/2010

They also offer you professors/instructors that are working in the field rather than academics that haven't been there in a very long time - not that I'm knocking my dorm life college experience - well, maybe I am. LOL I'm in my 40s and working on prerequisites at a community college, in case I go back for my Masters. I've been very impressed with CC.

Good luck to you and thank you for your service!