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Legalizing Marijuana Would Cause Prices To Plummet

LISA LEFF   07/ 7/10 10:26 PM ET   AP

Marijuana Prices

SAN FRANCISCO — A ballot measure to legalize marijuana in California would so upend supply and demand that pot prices could plummet by as much as 90 percent and possibly undercut the tax windfall that supporters have touted to sell the initative, a study published Wednesday found.

The study by the nonpartisan RAND Drug Policy Research Center forecasts some interesting scenarios if California in November becomes the second state, after Alaska, to legalize pot for recreational use by adults and the first to tax commercial cannabis sales.

Pot prices could drop from $375 an ounce under the state's current medical marijuana law to as little as $38 per ounce before taxes as legal pot suddenly becomes available to the public, RAND researhers concluded.

"Right now, when individuals purchase drugs, they are paying for the drug dealer taking risks of being arrested," said Beau Kilmer, the center's co-director and the report's lead author.

The exact amount of revenue legalized pot would bring California is still up in the air. The ballot initiative authorizes counties to license and tax commercial pot sales to adults, leaving it up to local jurisdictions to decide what kind of tax rates to apply to marijuana.

The researchers said legalization could bring substantially more revenue if California sees an influx of "marijuana tourism" similar to Amsterdam, where pot is legally sold at coffee shops, and if out-of-state dealers purchase California cannabis to sell back home.

"You would certainly guess that if it's cheaper to produce it in California legally than to import it from Mexico, it would reduce imports from Mexico," Jonathan Caulkins, a Carnegie Mellon University who also worked on the study, said. "Presumably, it would decrease them a lot."

Yet intervention from the federal government, which classifies marijuana as an illegal drug, or regulations limiting marijuana sales to California residents, as is the case now with medical marijuana, easily could defeat dreams of tourists flocking to the coast on pot vacations, Caulkins noted.

RAND analyzed existing research on marijuana prices, cigarette taxes and current pot consumption and applied modeling techniques to determine possible outcomes if pot were to be legalized.

The California Board of Equalization studied the financial impacts of pot while evaluating a bill introduced in the Legislature last year that would have taxed and regulated marijuana like alcohol. Sales taxes and a $50 per ounce excise tax on commercial pot sales would generate $1.4 billion for the state, according to that study.

But that estimate could prove overly optimistic, depending on how pot users and sellers respond to the idea of paying hefty taxes on a weed that can be grown at home, the RAND anaylsis said.

Consumer prices for pot would rise to about $91 an ounce if local governments adopt that same $50 an ounce tax scheme following passage of the ballot measure – still substantially lower than what Californians pay now but high enough to create incentives for growers to sell the drug under the table to avoid paying the government duty.

"When the purchase price goes way down, that cuts down on sales tax revenue, which was $400 million of the $1.4 billion (estimate)," Caulkins said. "What could adversely affect the excise tax is the gray market" that could be created by tax evaders.

Another difficulty the researchers said they faced in trying to tally the economic benefits of marijuana legalization is not knowing how many local governments, if any, would decide to license and tax marijuana sales and if they do, at what rate.

The RAND team was more certain that legalizing adult use of marijuana would cause pot consumption to go up in California, although they said they could not say by how much. Under one model they used, it would grow by about half and under another it would double, reaching rates last seen in the late 1970s.

"We have to realize that marijuana legalization in California would not be a marginal change, it would be a large change," Kilmer said.

The researchers did not try to draw any conclusions about whether legalizing marijuana was good public policy and instead hoped their findings would make voters question "any estimates of revenues and consumption that claim precision," Kilmer said.

RAND, a nonprofit think tank headquartered in Santa Monica, Calif., paid for the research to educate voters ahead of the election, he said.

Rosalie Liccardo Pacula, who co-directs the RAND Drug Policy Research Center, acknowledged that as a California voter, she was uncomfortable with "the lack of specificity" in both the ballot measure and the bill that would have put pot in the same regulatory category as alcohol.

"Neither was sufficient for us to get an idea of what the effect of this was, and as a voter that was disturbing to me," she said.

Dale Gieringer, president of the California chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said legalization advocates have long expected marijuana prices to go down and pot use to go up if criminal penalties were removed.

"Overall, this report casts more smoke than light on the issue , but that is in the nature of any academic study where so many basic facts remain in dispute," Gieringer said. "The most important lesson to be taken away is that the benefits of legalization depend strongly on how it is implemented.

Some veteran growers in far northern California oppose legalization, fearing it would increase competition and cut profits, while others are embracing it as a way to legitimize their line of work.

"I think it will get a big vote up here," said Dan Hamburg, a former Mendocino County congressman and medical marijuana advocate who has endorsed Proposition 19. "Even though you would think all the growers will be against it, I don't think the smarter ones look at it that way. They realize the marijuana-growing counties have a lot to benefit from being legal ... because people up here have been doing it for 40 years."

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SAN FRANCISCO — A ballot measure to legalize marijuana in California would so upend supply and demand that pot prices could plummet by as much as 90 percent and possibly undercut the tax windfal...
SAN FRANCISCO — A ballot measure to legalize marijuana in California would so upend supply and demand that pot prices could plummet by as much as 90 percent and possibly undercut the tax windfal...
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01:01 PM on 07/12/2010
" pot prices could plummet by as much as 90 percent "

One can only hope!!


This is part of why I lobby to legalize in the first place. We pay 450 an oz out here. It is robbery. We work hard to pay for our overpriced relaxation while having to watch our rummy counterparts drink themselevs to death. They pay pennies while we pay extortion prices for our SAFER choice.

Screw the states coffers. I'm concerned about my own money - not theirs.

That is not to say that a sales tax on pot wouldn't be a landfall of money for any state, though - at any price. You know they are going to add the state extortion 'sin' tax on it anyway. It could be 30 cents a pound and if the sin tax is 50 bucks the state still gets paid.

Why does everything have to be business and money related anyway? It's just a flower.

Just give it to us and we'll go away already.
07:30 PM on 07/10/2010
There are a lot of problems with the RAND study. You can download it free of charge from the RAND web site and read it for yourself.

Here are the reasons why Proposition 19 is good for California. A YES vote on Prop 19 will have the following effects. To read the studies demonstrating these outcomes, please visit yes19.org

Reduce violence and crime
Reduce racially biased arrests
Generate $1.2B to $1.4B in taxes
Create 60,000 to 110,000 jobs
Reduce police corruption
Increase respect for police and the law
Free police to focus on property and violent crimes
Reduce prison costs and prison overcrowding
Expand California economy by $16 to $23 billion
Reduce drug cartels’ revenue
Reduce environmental damage from illegal grows
Allow adults to choose a safer alternative to alcohol
03:29 AM on 07/11/2010
Yes,absolutely positives in legalization,locking people up for smoking a plant,are stupid or what?
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05:00 PM on 07/09/2010
There is something fishy with this study. I don't understand how they can reach the conclusion that the state and local governments won't get there tax revenues in the billions if what is being sold is cheaper even with a $50 tax. Some will try growing it themselves but please, who is going to wait around for the product to grow while they can go to the corner store and buy it in less than 10 minutes time. Not to mention if someone does try to dodge the tax and sell under the table, people will not pay them the supposed $88 dollars, which includes the tax, when they could buy it for much less knowing the dealer isn't legit, thus making it a non-starter for the dealer who won't even make the cash for their investment. The whole point of the price dropping after legalization is to put the cartels and the gangs out of business, they won't be able to compete against these kinds of prices.
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02:53 PM on 07/09/2010
J. Ray: What got you interested in marijuana/cannabis?

Dr Grinspoon: In 1967, I had some unexpected time so I thought I would look into marijuana to see what all the fuss was about. I was convinced at the time that marijuana was a terribly dangerous drug. I didn't understand why young people were ignoring the government's warnings about its danger in using it. So, I spent the next three years doing research and looking into it. I learned I had been brainwashed just like so many other citizens in the United States.

cont...
---
One of the pioneers of medicinal cannabis research is Dr Lester Grinspoon, a professor at Harvard Medical School. In the last 30 years Dr Grinspoon has researched and written many articles along with two books on the cannabis controversy. Marihuana Reconsideredand Marihuana, The Forbidden Medicine introduced many to the positive uses and benefits of one of the oldest cultivated plants in the world.

In this interview with Dr Grinspoon, many topics are discussed concerning the role of medicinal cannabis use in today's society.

read more:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/hemp_conspiracy.htm
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02:06 PM on 07/09/2010
Pixel Dreams - Free Marc Emery
http://www.pixeldreams.com/work/pd_projects/marc_emery-world_wide_rally.php

Free Marc Emery - World Wide Rally - Promo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6FN78Z5u0I&fmt=22
08:13 PM on 07/08/2010
It's a myth that pot is hard to grow. Sure it takes a few cycles maybe, but IF LEGAL and with good seeds just about any fool can grow it. Before you reply with "No way dood", ask yourself where it got the nickname "weed". And anyone who needs the super-kind all the time smokes too much anyway. I actually think the seeds might be worth more than the end product, were it legal.

It would be hard to tax and regulate, and the price would drop like a rock. Of course, this is the main reason it remains illegal.
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fumes
Pass The Pakalolo
08:53 PM on 07/08/2010
caveman?
12:31 PM on 07/09/2010
People prefer to have others make things for them so they don't have to labor intensively on an inferior product. I doubt that you make alcoholic beverages from scratch, because not only does that take a lot of time, but the drink would come out as inferior tasting. Similarly you could grow all your own vegetables, but if you're like most Americans you probably buy them at the grocery store. Anyone can grow their own weed right now, but seeing as there is a booming market for drugs, clearly most prefer to buy it from someone else who did all the labor.
12:09 AM on 07/11/2010
I hear that argument alot, but don't agree with it. And I know several people who have or do make their own beer. But again, it's just not the same, the comparison between alcohol and pot as not one-to-one.
07:44 PM on 07/08/2010
If $50 per ounce is the magic number then can’t California impose that as a fixed tax / fee regardless of how much per ounce the pot might be? I’m pretty sure if users are accustomed to paying $375 an ounce and the price drops to $38 they will not mind paying $88 with the fixed tax… unless they’re high!
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05:00 PM on 07/09/2010
There is something fishy with this study. I don't understand how they can reach the conclusion that the state and local governments won't get there tax revenues in the billions if what is being sold is cheaper even with a $50 tax. Some will try growing it themselves but please, who is going to wait around for the product to grow while they can go to the corner store and buy it in less than 10 minutes time. Not to mention if someone does try to dodge the tax and sell under the table, people will not pay them the supposed $88 dollars, which includes the tax, when they could buy it for much less knowing the dealer isn't legit, thus making it a non-starter for the dealer who won't even make the cash for their investment. The whole point of the price dropping after legalization is to put the cartels and the gangs out of business, they won't be able to compete against these kinds of prices.
05:13 PM on 07/08/2010
If the report is true then there goes the motive for cartels and gangs to import the stuff or produce it.... that is a good thing, IMHO...

I don't thinks prices will drop that far... but there are other considerations including reduced court and prison costs to try and incarcerate pot smokers, increased sales of equipment and electricity to produce it.

What won't change is the memory of and the disrespect for a government that lied, abused and murdered and incarcerated people for 80 years and the cowardly politicians who pandered to police unions and the DEA instead of standing up for doing the right thing.

Legal Marijuana in CA will not change the Fed policy and it will not put the DEA in its place and that is a very, very dangerous situation.
07:27 PM on 07/08/2010
unfortunately you're spot on :(

The change has to be cultural and then move to a federal level. We've reached a cultural change already with the medical issue, and need to push this further.

Gay marriage was unthinkable 15 years ago, now it seems only a matter of time. Change is possible
07:28 PM on 07/08/2010
Also, on a mildly unrelated note, this sunday go Holland
02:42 PM on 07/08/2010
The price of pot will vary due to quality and availability. There will be low prices for shwagg and high prices for the "kind". Simple. The good pot will bring around two hundred bucks an oz while sucky weed will go for less than 40 bucks.
Disclaimer: I could be wrong
lletaa
end war/healthcare for everyone
03:15 PM on 07/08/2010
If its voted down the price will be $1000 an oz. Good stuff $10000 an oz. Just kidding but right now as we speak dispensary pot mostly indoor grown goes for $6000 to $8000 a pound. Thats alot, some people are making alot of $ right now.
05:15 PM on 07/08/2010
average price per pound is $3200 and what you are talking about is price by the gram, marked up for retail. And its about right, 100% markup is a retail standard regardless of the product...
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belyeu
03:30 PM on 07/08/2010
"The price of pot will vary due to quality and availability."

If pot is legalized there will be ample supplies of the best quality pot imaginable.
05:17 PM on 07/08/2010
Agreed, who wants to grow "sucky" weed that takes up a lot of space and expense to produce when one can grow quality strains and get more for their time and space...?
02:21 PM on 07/08/2010
To Answer the title of the article... YES
lletaa
end war/healthcare for everyone
02:17 PM on 07/08/2010
One huge benefit of legalization is growing outdoors. The indoor hydroponic industry is sweating it cause who is going to buy expensive equipment to grow mediocre weed when the natural sun is free and ten times better.
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fumes
Pass The Pakalolo
10:40 AM on 07/08/2010
~JUST SAY NO!!!

to asinine drug laws..

and then sit back.. put your feet up.. and enjoy a relaxing bowl of mother nature!
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jobrien1950
fired up
10:06 AM on 07/08/2010
How many people think that pot will continue to be smoked, regardless of whether it is legal? I think the only difference will be who gets to keep the drug money, and how much money that will be.
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salmonellae
11:10 AM on 07/08/2010
exactly! I have no interest in pot---legal or not. If I wanted to smoke, I could buy it and smoke it any time. It's obvious nobody gives a crap if it's legal or not.
02:53 PM on 07/08/2010
I give a crap. I'm a legal MMJ patient. I'm already "legal". I don't have the same rights as you. I can't get a job that tests for pot. I can't own a gun. I can't travel to another state and use my medicine legally. I can't drive a car legally even if I haven't medicated that day as the metabolites are still in my system for weeks and many states can arrest you for what they find in your pee. Cops can still bust down my door without a warrant if they smell my smoke. If arrested I can lose my right to vote or I can lose my house and property. They can take my kids away and shoot my pets without fear of persecution. Now, I give a crap and until it's legal for all I'm a sitting duck.
08:56 AM on 07/08/2010
Whatever.... people could grow their own food too, but how many actually do? People will pay so they don't have to smoke Mexican pot. yuck. Now we can't legalize it because the Medical field won't make as much money?? Where do they get these studies?? Probably the same place that they got that stupid egg/frying pan commercial.
05:20 PM on 07/08/2010
Hold on now, Mexicans are fine farmers and they produce some of the best equatorial strains available... unfortunately it is distributed by cartels and there isn't necessarily a lot of concern about what is sprayed on it to prevent bugs, etc... Buy American, buy local from fellow citizens you can trust...
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Riverman
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
08:50 AM on 07/08/2010
The drug war is a race based class war and has been from its birth. The DEA was created as a make work organization for the Alcohol agents who were all out of a job when we ended alcohol prohibition. The logic at the time was that only blacks and Mexicans used marijuana so there was no political downside anticipated. It is still all about jobs. Approximately half of the budget for any given “law informant” organization is federal funds tied to drug arrest. 80 present of all drug arrest are for marijuana and let’s not forget the seizures of cash and property. So simply put your local police department is addicted to drug war money. They don’t work for the citizens any more. If you doubt that you just aren’t paying attention. The penalties imposed on people for marijuana use are draconian and destructive but worse yet this bit of codified bigotry has separated government from local control and the arguments made to support this mistake have so polluted our national discourse that honesty and logic are completely out of fashion. Nothing good comes of this unless you think hiring jack booted thugs to troll the streets of America answering to no is a good idea. As for the list of evils that are charged to drug use they are actually a list of unintended consequences of a misguided and failed policy. Ask yourself what gangs would be like if they didn’t have the cash from drug sales.
05:21 PM on 07/08/2010
Appreciate your sentiments but the DEA was established by Nixon in 1973....