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Spain Rejects Burqa Ban - For Now

ALAN CLENDENNING and HAROLD HECKLE   07/20/10 03:59 PM ET   AP

Spain Burqa

MADRID — Spain's Parliament on Tuesday rejected a proposal to ban women from wearing in public places Islamic veils that reveal only the eyes.

However, the Socialist government has said it favors including a ban on people wearing burqas in government buildings in an upcoming bill on religious issues to be debated after parliament's summer vacation break.

Following a lower chamber debate, 183 lawmakers opposed the ban, 162 voted for it and two abstained.

The nonbinding proposal had been put forward by the leading opposition Popular Party, which portrayed it as a measure in support of women's rights. The ruling Socialist Party opposed the ban.

"It is very difficult to understand how it is that our troops are defending liberty in Afghanistan and the government doesn't have the courage to do so here, in Spain," said opposition spokeswoman Soraya Saenz de Santamaria in Parliament.

The opposition's proposal followed discussions in several other European countries on possibly banning face veils that show only a woman's eyes, or their eyes through a knitted mesh.

Nations like France, Belgium and Switzerland have struggled to balance their national identities with growing Muslim populations with cultural practices that clash with their own.

In Spain, the PP had put forward the proposal "in defense of the dignity and equality of all women" and to prevent Muslim women from being forced into wearing unwanted garments such as veils by their husbands.

Some analysts had interpreted the proposal as an opposition ploy to build their party's strength amid the economic turmoil and dismal growth prospects that have dogged the government of Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero.

None of the opposition spokesmen consulted had been able to cite a place in Spain where women routinely wear face-covering veils.

However, a handful of Spanish towns and cities have banned the wearing of burqas and niqabs in municipal buildings, including in the country's second-largest city of Barcelona in June.

Of Spain's 47 million inhabitants, about 1 million are Muslims, most of whom have arrived in recent decades mainly looking for employment from northwest Africa, where the burqa is not common.

"This has been used politically in a search for electoral support," said Mansur Escudero, president of the Islamic Commission of Spain. He said he last saw a woman wearing a burqa in Spain 10 years ago in the southern city of Marbella, where Saudi Arabia's royal family and other wealthy Arab clans own large homes and estates.

Escudero said the woman could have been a tourist. The only woman he knew who regularly wore a burqa had lived in the southern city of Cordoba and died about a decade ago.

The issue nevertheless remains an emotional touchstone, and Justice Minister Francisco Caamano said that such garments were "hardly compatible with human dignity."

Caamano said in June the government would begin debating a ban on women wearing burqas in government buildings which would include courts, ministries and employment offices as part of the religious issues bill.

But the government opposes legislating a ban in public spaces, as that could force women who wear such clothing to make difficult choices: Go out in public and break the law, or stay home all the time.

"We want to avoid putting women who live in this kind of situation in a dual jail," said Eduardo Madina, secretary general for the ruling Socialist Party in the lower house of parliament.

___

Associated Press Writers Ciaran Giles and Jorge Sainz contributed from Madrid.

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MADRID — Spain's Parliament on Tuesday rejected a proposal to ban women from wearing in public places Islamic veils that reveal only the eyes. However, the Socialist government has said it favo...
MADRID — Spain's Parliament on Tuesday rejected a proposal to ban women from wearing in public places Islamic veils that reveal only the eyes. However, the Socialist government has said it favo...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Robert Crowley
see Bio
11:32 AM on 07/29/2010
and Spain wonders how they were once conquered by the Moors no tienen huevos! I think if you wear a blanket in public you need to be put in a mental hospital.
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
02:45 AM on 07/22/2010
The human rights issue is not the veil, per se, but choice. Women who really do choose to wear a veil should be able to. However, the veil that allows only the eyes to be seen really does reduce vision, and it really does become a safety issue in driving. It can also be a valid concern when getting children from school or entering an often robbed establishment, such as a bank. Choosing to wear a burka would lead to some restriction in activity as a matter of safety. Women who choose to cover up that much of the face would also be choosing to give up driving and going to the bank.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
09:02 PM on 07/21/2010
Here is a recap of what was posted on this blog by numerous "well wishing" people:

Principle #1: Anyone who criticizes Islam has NO credibility.

Principle #2: No one can REALLY understand Islam before spending a lifetime learning about it.

Principe #3: Muslims all over the world are very frequently using violence against non-Muslims and Muslims alike, in the name of religion, but this has NOTHING to with Kuran.

Principle #4: Muslim women happily CHOOSE to be treated as sub-human by the men around them.

Principle #5: No one seems to agree on the REAL meaning of Kuran. Every school of thought has a different understanding of the same writings. But it's OK because, in the end, no one is accountable for anything since it's a religious matter. God only knows...

Are you guys serious?
09:55 PM on 07/21/2010
Principle #1:Anyone who criticizes Islam without reading the Qur'an and discussing with Muslims with an open mind has NO credibility.

Principle #2: No one can REALLY understand Islam before spending a decent amount in exposure to it.

Principle #3: Muslims all over the world are infrequently using violence against non-Muslims and Muslims alike, in the name of religion, but this is a result of deliberately or accidentally misinterpreting the Qur'an or simply ignoring some parts of it.

Principle #4:The media logically has no need to report peaceful people. They only report the actions of the extremists.

Principle #5: Muslim women happily CHOOSE to serve God in a different manner than the men around them.

Principle #5: Muslim men can do the same as women. Most choose not to.

Principle #6: Not everyone seems to agree on EVERYTHING in the Qur'an. Every person may have different interpretations on some parts, but 95% at least is indisputable.

Principle #7: Unlike other religions, divisions in Islam are not based on the holy book, but are based in their different views of history and differences in their view of how their Islamic faith, common to all Muslims, should be manifested in the world in response to social, political, and cultural factors.

Principle #8: People are the root of evil. They have the free will to do good or bad; they have the free will to heed the words of the Qur'an completely, partially, or not at all. In Islam, God judges them.
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Christophe
12:17 AM on 07/22/2010
Raigerzero,

Let me address these points one by one.
Principle #1:Anyone who criticizes Islam without reading the Qur'an and discussing with Muslims with an open mind has NO credibility.

Would you say that Wafa Sultan has no credibility?

Principle #2: No one can REALLY understand Islam before spending a decent amount in exposure to it.

Only Muslims and can understands other Muslims. You made my point.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
12:29 AM on 07/22/2010
Raigerzero,

Let me address these points one by one.

Principle #3: Muslims all over the world are infrequently using violence against non-Muslims and Muslims alike, in the name of religion, but this is a result of deliberately or accidentally misinterpreting the Qur'an or simply ignoring some parts of it.

With all this violence, that is A LOT of misunderstanding and ignorance.

Principle #4:The media logically has no need to report peaceful people. They only report the actions of the extremists.

Again it looks like the "dar al-harb" is pretty big today.
It would be much faster to list the wars that are NOT fought by Muslims today that the opposite.
09:55 PM on 07/21/2010
Principle #9: Although Islam doesn't promote the problems of the world, people have, can, do, and will twist Islam to serve their ends.

Principle #10: People who completely disregard the feelings and beliefs of others can not possibly understand the views of Islam and thus can not effectively argue with people who are throughly educated in the matter

Principle #11: People who are openly hateful do the same thing as what they accuse extremists of doing.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
09:58 PM on 07/21/2010
You made my points.
Thank you.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
01:11 AM on 07/22/2010
rinciple #9: Although Islam doesn't promote the problems of the world, people have, can, do, and will twist Islam to serve their ends.

Agreed.

Principle #10: People who completely disregard the feelings and beliefs of others can not possibly understand the views of Islam and thus can not effectively argue with people who are throughly educated in the matter.

Agreed.

Principle #11: People who are openly hateful do the same thing as what they accuse extremists of doing.

You can not compare hateful speech and murder.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
08:14 PM on 07/21/2010
HP (so called) moderators,

You guys are killing (virtually) me!

On what basis do you delete my last post?
Don't you think I have a right to free speech?

I am eager to get your feedback...
11:14 PM on 07/21/2010
Hmmm...do you enjoy being censored? Told what you can think or say and what you can't? Something that you would turn right around and do to others if you could. Remember that the next time you tell someone what they can and can't wear or what they can or can't believe.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
07:58 PM on 07/21/2010
Why was my last comment deleted??? #2
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
07:38 PM on 07/21/2010
Why was my last comment deleted???
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BlueZoo
Independent voter, Independent thinker!
03:29 PM on 07/21/2010
What's with the photo, HP? It is NOT a photo of women wearing a burqa but of Indian women wearing traditional dress! Photo and article do not match in any way, shape or form!
02:37 PM on 07/21/2010
Please check out http://www.islamicsolutions.com/

It is very useful website on Islam.

While you are there, you may also want to read: "Unveiling the Truth behind the Veil"
04:16 PM on 07/21/2010
So far, it seems like a pretty good website to me.
04:16 PM on 07/21/2010
#1 Fan.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
02:36 PM on 07/21/2010
Reposting this:
“A French poet said once: "Women are the future of mankind". I believe it.
Please take a moment to watch this powerful message:
Arab-American Psychiatrist Wafa Sultan Criticizes the Status of Women in Islam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ough-e6ThWE
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05:02 PM on 07/21/2010
Wafa Sultan is hardly a figure of authority on Islam - she has lied about quite a few "incidents" and doesn't have any credibility. She does, though, have the right to believe in and criticize whatever she likes. She's not unique though - there was a book written a few years ago, Forbidden Love, which turned out to be one big series of lies about Islam and life in Jordan - the female Jordanian Christian author was supported by Liz Cheney. There was a film called "Forbidden Lies", which was about the whole thing. You'll find many such videos of people telling the so called "truth" about Islam. You've seen one, you've seen them all.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
alex8649
05:38 PM on 07/21/2010
Funny how all these "powerful" voices actually turn out to have a stridently anti-Muslim powerbase to turn to in the U.S., isn't it? Kind of like that other one Hirsit Ali who came over courtesy of the American Enterprise Institute. Birds of a feather, except her visa fortunately ran out. Bonne voyage back to Amsterdam, Hirsit.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
08:25 PM on 07/21/2010
Principle #1: Anyone who criticizes Islam has no credibility.
11:20 PM on 07/21/2010
Voltaire once wrote:

"it is much more reasonable and more useful to venerate these fantastic images of the Divine than to sink into atheism. An atheist who is rational, violent, and powerful, would be as great a pestilence as a blood-mad, superstitious man."
02:26 PM on 07/21/2010
Very telling that it is Partido Popular who are trying to tell women what to wear. They have also tried in the pat to ban abortions. Sounding more and more theocratic every day.
02:14 PM on 07/21/2010
I'm just wondering why Spain, France, etc, who ban the burqua because it is oppressive to women, don't also ban religion. That's both oppressive and discriminatory towards women, no? Why this and not that too>
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Christophe
02:34 PM on 07/21/2010
At the same time that ban the burqa, the French are building mosques.
Islam is not the target here, the oppression of women by the men in their family is.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Spaniard85
Skeptic, Atheist. Likes shinies!
03:31 PM on 07/21/2010
The problem is that banning burqas won't help this situation, for two reasons. First, the man that forces the burqa on a woman will not be the one punished if the woman is found in public wearing a burqa. Second, if they choose to comply, then women will be forced to remain inside, under the absolute control of that same oppressive man you claim you want to protect the woman from.
It's time we all realize that changing the oppression of women by their families for the oppression of women by the State is not a solution to this problem.
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Balzac
12:10 PM on 07/21/2010
The women in the photo aren't wearing burkas.
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12:57 PM on 07/21/2010
lol -- you beat me to it, Balzac! That's kameez shalwar. Chances are the women in the photo are Hindu or Sikh. Gosh -- HP made the same mistake the other day.
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TYRANNASAURUS
UGH!....people don't taste good.
12:02 PM on 07/21/2010
THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT SHOULD BAN THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE DEMEANING TO WOMEN.....WHETHER MUSLIM WOMEN LIKE IT OR NOT.
12:10 PM on 07/21/2010
TYANNASAURUS, STOP BEING TYRANNICAL. YOU ARE AN EXTINCT DINOSAUR. ITS DONE.
12:18 PM on 07/21/2010
Yes Occam123, I know it's Tyranno, not Tyranna.
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01:12 PM on 07/21/2010
Tyrranasaurus -- congratulations on your apt choice of screen name:

So (no need to shout) you want this ban in place because it is "demeaning to women"?
And at the same time you want the ban "whether Muslim women like it or not" ... ??? .
...oh wait -- sorry -- that was sarcasm (I hope)....
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hello All
11:42 AM on 07/21/2010
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/18/burqa-ban-unbritish-immigration-minister

"Copying French ban on burqa would be un-British, says minister

Immigration minister Damian Green says ban on Muslim women covering faces in public would be at odds with 'tolerant society'"

"But Green told the Sunday Telegraph: "I stand personally on the feeling that telling people what they can and can't wear, if they're just walking down the street, is a rather un-British thing to do. We're a tolerant and mutually respectful society.

"There are times, clearly, when you've got to be able to identify yourself, and people have got to be able to see your face, but I think it's very unlikely and it would be undesirable for the British parliament to try and pass a law dictating what people wore."
12:44 PM on 07/21/2010
Lessons about tolerance from the British Government? With 385 gazillion cameras spying the people? Yeah right...
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12:59 PM on 07/21/2010
Tell me more.
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03:14 PM on 07/21/2010
I don't know what country you live in so I'd be interested to know in what way you consider your home country to be more tolerant. (no snark intended)
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Christophe
02:39 PM on 07/21/2010
The Brits are already on a slippery slope.
55 deaths in the London bombings in 2005, but they still have not learn anything.
Too bad for them.
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03:22 PM on 07/21/2010
You know, Christophe, we have coped other attacks from other organisations in the past.
Every generation has its "cause".
Some are willing to use violence to defend that "cause".
So what exactly is your point?
"The Brits are on a slippery slope": to what?
"They have not learned": what?

Where do you think that "slippery slope" is leading?
And just what is it you would like them to learn?

Please do share.
11:36 AM on 07/21/2010
Still hope----
Justice Minister Francisco Caamano: [burqas are] "hardly compatible with human dignity."

"...the government would begin debating a ban on women wearing burqas in government buildings which would include courts, ministries and employment offices as part of the religious issues bill."
11:39 AM on 07/21/2010
"hardly compatible with human dignity" if you disreagard to voice of the willing women.
11:40 AM on 07/21/2010
disreagard=disregard