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Deficit Hawk Survey Falsely Claimed People Support Cutting Social Security

First Posted: 07/28/10 11:36 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 06:10 PM ET

Social Security

Update below.*

A high-profile survey funded by anti-Social Security advocates falsely reported that Americans favor raising the age of retirement to 69, according to a subsequent correction made by the organization.

On June 26, results were released of a nationwide survey of participants in town hall events dedicated to discussing ways to reduce the deficit. The events were organized by AmericaSpeaks and largely funded by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. Peterson is a hedge-fund billionaire dedicated to cutting Social Security in the name of deficit reduction.

According to the group, the only across-the-board cut that the participants favored was raising the retirement age to 69. Increasing the age is a dramatic cut, because those who choose early retirement receive significantly less every year they receive benefits. Even if a recipient waits until 69, he or she would begin receiving benefits at a lower rate.

That a majority supports such a proposal surprised some observers, though it was attributed to the misleading information presented to participants.

The truth was much simpler: The numbers were wrong.

AmericaSpeaks has since corrected the survey in an online slideshow and a PDF of the report that lives on its site. The incorrect number had already been blasted out to the press and delivered to the deficit commission. The correction was spotted by blogger David Dayen at Firedoglake.com.

The new conclusion: "No option to reduce benefits received support from a majority of participants."

In the corrected survey, support for raising the retirement age plummets from above 50 percent down to 39. In a blog post that notes the correction, Joe Goldman, vice president of citizen engagement for AmericaSpeaks, doesn't specify that the most significant result of the correction was to wipe out the only good news for the anti-Social Security group that funded the exercise.

"Fourth, we were able to correct the voting results in four questions that had been calculated incorrectly," writes Goldman. "It turned out that on those questions in which participants were able to vote for multiple options, a flaw in the voting software meant that the system was double counting (e.g. if you hit the number 3 button several times, it would record several votes for number 3 instead of just one.) Fortunately, Turning Point Technologies was able to go through the data files and eliminate double counting. Notably, this error essentially didn't change the relative position of options within a given category. Rather, the big difference is that it lowered the percentage support for many options in these four questions. We apologize for any confusion that this has caused. Turning Point Technologies has assured us that they will be correcting the software error."

Goldman is an Obama backer and AmericaSpeaks, while it's professionally nonpartisan, is generally a progressive organization despite its affiliation with Peterson. Goldman tells HuffPost that he made sure to alert members of the advisory committee as soon as the mistake was caught, an assertion backed up by committee member Larry Mishel, a progressive economist with the Economic Policy Institute.

He also stressed that when the group presented the information to the deficit commission, it didn't highlight the specific number that supported increasing the retirement age.

"Relatively little support was expressed for reducing Social Security benefits to achieve deficit reductions, with the most popular of these options being an option to raise the age of achieving full benefits to 69 by 2025," testified Carolyn Lukensmeyer, head of AmericaSpeaks. "Significant support was expressed, on the other hand, for raising revenues through payroll taxes. Far and away, the most highly supported of all options presented by AmericaSpeaks was an option to raise the payroll tax cap on earnings to 90%. Additional feedback through the computers suggested that some participants supported eliminating the cap all together."

The corrected survey shows that despite the effort of Peterson's organization to skew the results, people simply don't want to see Social Security cut. "I think the story should be that elite opinion doesn't match opinion around the country," said Mishel. "You wonder if all the deficit hawks will take account of the actual recommendations of the people."

If they did, private accounts would not be treated as a serious proposition. Other unpopular policies also ended up less popular when the correction was made. A mere 17 percent of respondents support creating "personal savings accounts," which is a term coined by Republican wordsmith Frank Luntz to describe Social Security privatization. That was down from 27 percent backing in the uncorrected version.

The final results of the survey of 3,500 people show a decidedly progressive populace. Sixty percent supported raising the cap to tax more income. Currently, income above roughly $100,000 avoids paying Social Security taxes. A full 85 percent wanted cuts to defense spending. A majority supporting raising taxes on the wealthy and a carbon tax and 50 percent backed a tax on financial transactions.

Even the uncorrected results were apparently unpleasant for the Peterson group. When it sent out its initial email in early July announcing the completion of the survey, titled "National Town Meeting: The Results," the actual results were conspicuously absent. "To learn what your fellow citizens had to say about the challenges facing our nation's economy, visit USABudgetDiscussion.org," the organization suggested.


Update, 8/24/2010: The Peter G. Peterson Foundation has responded to this story with the following statement, which is published here in full.

To the Editor:


I would like to correct a series of statements made by Ryan Grim in his piece, "Deficit Hawk Survey Falsely Claimed People Support Cutting Social Security," published in the Huffington Post this past Thursday, July 29th.

Contrary to Mr. Grim's characterization of Pete Peterson as an "anti-Social Security advocate," Pete and his foundation strongly believe that Social Security must be preserved and protected. One of the goals of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation is to ensure that this vital program is strong, solvent and secure for future generations, and that safety nets are not brutally shredded in times of fiscal crisis as we have recently seen happen in other countries.

Saving Social Security and other critical social safety net programs will require our nation to chart a more fiscally sustainable path. Pete believes we must work together and build consensus across the political spectrum to address our growing fiscal challenges so that we can introduce reforms fairly, gradually and with compassion. It is under these conditions that our nation can most successfully meet the needs of our seniors, children and lower income families. As part of this process, he also believes it will be imperative that wealthier Americans contribute their fair share to help stabilize our nation's finances.

The suggestion made by Mr. Grim that the Peter G. Peterson Foundation attempted to "skew the results" of the recent AmericaSpeaks National Town Meeting is completely inaccurate and demonstrates Mr. Grim's fundamental misunderstanding of the Foundation's role in this important initiative.

This unique national discussion was organized and hosted by AmericaSpeaks, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization with a demonstrated track record of providing citizens with a voice on the most important issues that impact their lives. The initiative was made possible by grant support provided by three leading foundations with a shared commitment to informing the American public and policymakers of the fiscal realities facing the country - the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the W.K. Kellogg Foundation and the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. AmericaSpeaks established a National Advisory Committee to ensure that the choices presented at the National Town Meeting were fair, accessible and reflective of the most important issues facing the nation. This Committee was comprised of a range of organizations from across the political spectrum and excluded individuals from any of the funding organization to ensure complete independence. Unfortunately, Mr. Grim failed to share these important facts with your readers.

Accordingly, the Peter G. Peterson Foundation and the other funders were in no way involved with the tabulation of the survey results, a process that was contracted by AmericaSpeaks to Turning Point Technologies. As AmericaSpeaks has acknowledged, the incorrect results for four options were directly a result of a software error and have since been updated and publically noted as corrections to the originally erroneous figures.

The results of the National Town Meeting are featured on the Foundation's website and have been posted for quite some time. We continue to encourage the public to view these results: http://www.pgpf.org/getinvolved/americaspeaks/.

We hope that this information is helpful and would appreciate it if you shared this letter with your readers.

Loretta Ucelli
Vice President
Peter G. Peterson Foundation

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Update below.* A high-profile survey funded by anti-Social Security advocates falsely reported that Americans favor raising the age of retirement to 69, according to a subsequent correction made by t...
Update below.* A high-profile survey funded by anti-Social Security advocates falsely reported that Americans favor raising the age of retirement to 69, according to a subsequent correction made by t...
 
 
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Kassandra
Your micro-bio is empty
09:40 PM on 07/28/2010
"The Deficit (Catfood) Commission should be opened up, or shut down. Its continuing secrecy and exclusion of the public is a national disgrace, and those who defend this affront to democracy — in Congress or the White House — should be condemned by the media and everyone who believes in open government.
>>>>>
Open it up or shut it down. Which part of this does the WH not understand?"

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/62359
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
axollot
....
06:11 PM on 07/29/2010
264! excellent link!!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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ebanks84
Grandma knows best!
08:25 PM on 07/28/2010
LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE!

I keep telling you that polls are nothing but lies and now look. They tried to make you believe that we are against our own social security program. How dastardly of the little muckers who lied to us. Anything to try and steal more money from us. Shameful critters!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
johnjohn1234
Satire is healthy.
07:38 PM on 07/28/2010
They cut ss and I'll cut their ability to further dirty the gene pool.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Durango
07:12 PM on 07/28/2010
Social Security was first instituted by that well known radical Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismark.

Radically conservative that is.

He instituted SS and National Health Care to keep the German workers from joining the Socialist Party.

And overthrowing the government.

Isn't it amazing that Bismark an all powerful reactionary was so much more enlightened than ANY Republican of today.

Unbelievable really.

What this country needs is a strong Communist Party. Because unless the wealthy, ie:Republicans, are threatened with the loss of their property the greedy fools will do nothing to help their fellow Americans.

Which is, after all, their Christian Duty.

Fail there also.
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maserati2
Finally an honest politician! ELIZABETH WARREN!
06:55 PM on 07/28/2010
Decades ago, conservatives came up with a secret plan called "Starve the Beast" to forcibly downsize the American government until it was so small it can be "drowned in the bathtub".

Today, their plan has matured and no longer needs to be carefully hidden away. Large corporations have taken visable control of Congress, the Courts and the Treasury, the Supreme Court openly favors corporations over people, the bailouts reward Wall Street and then present Main Street with the bill.

As any accessible funds are transferred into the hands of the Elite, one enormous source of finance remains, Social Security. Do we sit & complain as the funds that we were forced by law to pay for decades are claimed as property owned by the Conservative Elite? By whose authority? How many insults and abuses do Americans require to finally force us to fight for what we already own?

Read: http://www.governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=14

And PLEASE, this is one subject that can't continue to be ignored but really needs to be OPENLY DISCUSSED!”
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Kassandra
Your micro-bio is empty
07:04 PM on 07/28/2010
But nobody's doing it. The MSM wants this to happen so they aren't talking about it at all. and you know, that if people don't see it on TEEVEE they don't believe it's true...part of the reason we're in this fix in the first place.

I fear by this time next year people will be starving and won't even know what happened.

Meanwhile, we're happy that judge stopped the immigration bill (truly odious for sure). We're being distracted by everything but the most important story.
And dig, it, this is Obama's baby and the Democrats in the House
R & D = two wings of the same bird of prey
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Downrivers
Siskiyou Mountains
07:19 PM on 07/28/2010
"America a couple of decades from now will be a place in which elderly people make up a disproportionate share of the poor, as they did before Social Security. It will also be a country in which even middle-class elderly Americans are, in many cases, unable to afford expensive medical procedures or prescription drugs and in which poor Americans generally go without even basic health care. And it may well be a place in which only those who can afford expensive private schools can give their children a decent education."

http://www.pkarchive.org/economy/TaxCutCon.html
08:42 AM on 07/29/2010
Okay, it's already a place in which poor Americans generally go without even basic health care. Republicans like to say, "Poor people have Medicaid", but they never tell you how poor you must be to qualify. To get Medicaid as an adult, you have to make less than $500 a month. I can't even house and feed myself with that, never mind the family. To have only your kids qualify for Medicaid, a family of four has to make less than $20,000. If two of you work for minimum wage, you make too much to qualify. Of course, your minimum wage job won't offer benefits, either, and you sure can't afford health insurance AND rent AND food on $20K a year, so one of those has to go. Topping all that is the law that lets employers off the hook for benefits if your job is classified as less than full-time. This encourages employers to employ two adults part-time, upping their profit margin at their employees' (and their families') expense. In today's job market, one can work two part-time jobs for more than forty hours a week and having to explain to your child why she or he can't see a dentist or a doctor. That's the reality of working in America today, and our corporate masters think we're overcompensated at their expense.
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Kassandra
Your micro-bio is empty
06:48 PM on 07/28/2010
Yeah and just we watched the state aid: Medicaid, Medicare, education, police, Unemployment benefits,COBRA etc go to the War.
did you wonder why, when we kept getting petitions and wee asked to call our congresscritters to stop 33 Billion, we would with 59 Billion for the War?
Did that surprise anyone?
Did anyone think "hmmmmmmm........" 33 to 59?"

Now, this won't really HIT until the stimulus runs out in Dec...the same time frame Congress will be forcing a vote on this catfood commission which our beloved leader set up "Behind Closed Doors" like he did with "The Gang of Six" ....remember????

So, to me it looks like our government is going to Shock doctrine US again and pull the rug our form under the poor, the blind the halt and the lame as well as the children and the old folks in the lame duck session in DEC.
And....shssssh....nobody onTEEVEE is talking about this, ( right or "left")which will cost US millions more jobs and intense and unnecessary suffering.
Yes, boys and girls, they're going to screw US again. this time to the wall for all time... for WAR

If you want to follow this: http://firedoglake.com/ the only real lefty blog online
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maserati2
Finally an honest politician! ELIZABETH WARREN!
07:01 PM on 07/28/2010
Just when I was looking for a "real lefty blog", you reminded me of this website. Thanks.

Fanned again & faved.
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gaudeamus
igitur juvenes dum sumus
06:43 PM on 07/28/2010
why is it that a lot of the deficit hawks seem to be extremely weathy people? does anyone find that ironic?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OleLadySquawking
'Trickled' on since 1987!
06:32 PM on 07/28/2010
As I was watching a TV show today someone mentioned the "Greatest Generation", the name coined for the Americans that suffered trhough 2 major crisises, the Great Depression and WW2 and yet managed to pass the most significant legislation ever to take care of its own, Social Security. It got me to thinking why they did it.

They understood the cruelty of the elderly living in abject poverty because their pensions had been wiped out in the Stock Market crash, they could empathize with struggles widows faced raising the children of fathers lost in war and the people who became too sick to work. It was a no brainer because many of those people in need were relatives, friends, neighbors and coworkers. And they had a shared sense of 'We're all in it together'.

I find it interesting that as that generation shrinks at a rapid pace, the cry to dismantle the net that they wove to protect each of us is under greater and greater attack. They were the Greatest Generation but they have raised a most selfish generation who scream to repeal all the social nets, "because I shouldn't have to be responsible for someone elses bad luck".

It would have been a sad irony if the GOP had managed to privatize Social Security years ago, the survivors of the Great Depression would be now spending their golden years looking for food once again. Shame on us all if we allow them to do away with it.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
05:42 PM on 07/28/2010
Yeah, like a hedge fund guy is going to have our best interests at heart.

When we let Bush's tax cuts for the rich expire, WE WILL STILL HAVE A LOWER MARGINAL INCOME TAX RATE for the upper brackets than under 7 of Reagan's 8 years in office!

DON'T FALL FOR THE REPUBLICAN DEMAGOGUERY ON TAXES!
05:29 PM on 07/28/2010
The three biggest causes for the deficits are already known and they should be dealt with instead of trying to go after Social Security, which is our money that Washington can't seem to keep it's mitts off of. The three: military spending(gotta keep them wars going cause we're Patriots), the Bush tax cuts for the rich(Oh, they gotta have that money to keep the economy going) and the recession. The recession was caused by piss poor monetary policies of the FED, this and the prior administrations and shipping all of the jobs overseas, which was pushed hard by Bush and the Republicans as the way to make American companies competitive. So the real cause for this is the government and the private FED along with the Republican policies. If there should be any cuts(and penalities), it should be placed on those responsible, not on people who are saving their money(via the SS deductions). Of course, the ones responsible are also the ones who back organizations that cry the loudest about our SS(or distort the facts).

"A little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical…It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."
Thomas Jefferson, 1787
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
plaidsportcoat
05:26 PM on 07/28/2010
Peterson and the .01 per centers want to make the rest of us their slaves for our whole entire lives.
05:23 PM on 07/28/2010
$ 104,000.00, man I remember thinking when it was $ 20,000 that was going to be unpayable.
jk4
ginger1
05:17 PM on 07/28/2010
If Republicans didn't get the message, older Americans vote, and if they go after social security, the GOP is history.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
snorrk
A Citizen against Citizen's United
05:10 PM on 07/28/2010
Expect more of this kind of distortion (and other creative but oh so wrong attacks) on SS. If you don't already know it the conservatives have been waging war on SS since its inception. They won't stop until they've accomplished this. In fact, in a larger sense, they will only be happy when you finally are indentured to a corporation, live in a company town (barbed wire included), spend your money only in the company store, your children take over your debt when you die, and you are forever blacklisted if you quit or leave.

Think this won't happen? Is it too far fetched? Well then, look closer at the history of this country when giant corporations ruled, and before unions took a foothold. My grandfather worked for such a company and lived in such a place back in Pennsylvania for a coal mining company.

It could happen again...lest we forget.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Artemis34
"Women 4 the GOP" is like "Chickens 4 the KFC"
04:33 PM on 07/28/2010
How could this happen if there is "no enforcement" by the federal government? It could not, b/c there is enforcement by the federal government.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Artemis34
"Women 4 the GOP" is like "Chickens 4 the KFC"
04:49 PM on 07/28/2010
Sorry, wrong thread.