Opponents, Supporters Of Islamic Cultural Center Square Off Near Ground Zero

VERENA DOBNIK   08/22/10 09:30 PM ET   AP

Ground Zero Mosque Protests

NEW YORK — The proposed mosque near ground zero drew hundreds of fever-pitch demonstrators Sunday, with opponents carrying signs associating Islam with blood, supporters shouting, "Say no to racist fear!" and American flags waving on both sides.

The two leaders of the construction project, meanwhile, defended their plans, though one suggested that organizers might eventually be willing to discuss an alternative site. The other, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, said during a Middle East trip that the attention generated by the project is actually positive and that he hopes it will bring greater understanding.

Around the corner from the cordoned-off old building that is to become a 13-story Islamic community center and mosque, police separated the two groups of demonstrators. There were no reports of physical clashes but there were some nose-to-nose confrontations, including a man and a woman screaming at each other across a barricade under a steady rain.

Opponents of the $100 million project two blocks from the World Trade Center site appeared to outnumber supporters. Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"

Signs hoisted by dozens of protesters standing behind police barricades read "SHARIA" – using dripping, blood-red letters to describe Islam's Shariah law, which governs the behavior of Muslims.

Steve Ayling, a 40-year-old Brooklyn plumber who carried his sign to a dry spot by an office building, said the people behind the mosque project are "the same people who took down the twin towers."

Opponents demand that the mosque be moved farther from the site where more than 2,700 people were killed on Sept. 11, 2001. "They should put it in the Middle East," Ayling said.

On a nearby sidewalk, police chased away a group that unfurled a banner with images of beating, stoning and other torture they said was committed by those who followed Islamic law.

A mannequin wearing a keffiyeh, a traditional Arab headdress, was mounted on one of two mock missiles that were part of an anti-mosque installation. One missile was inscribed with the words: "Again? Freedom Targeted by Religion"; the other with "Obama: With a middle name Hussein. We understand. Bloomberg: What is your excuse?"

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has fiercely defended plans for the proposed mosque, saying that the right "to practice your religion was one of the real reasons America was founded."

The mosque project is being led by Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan, who insist the center will promote moderate Islam. The dispute has sparked a national debate on religious freedom and American values and is becoming an issue on the campaign trail ahead of the midterm elections. Republicans have been critical of President Barack Obama's stance: He has said the Muslims have the right to build the center at the site but has not commented on whether he thinks they should.

Rauf is in the middle of a Mideast trip funded by the U.S. State Department that is intended to promote religious tolerance. He told a gathering Sunday at the U.S. ambassador's residence in the Persian Gulf state of Bahrain that he took heart from the dispute over the mosque, saying "the fact we are getting this kind of attention is a sign of success."

"It is my hope that people will understand more," Rauf said without elaborating.

Democratic New York Gov. David Paterson has suggested that state land farther from ground zero be used for the center. Khan, executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement, expressed some openness to that idea on ABC's "This Week with Christiane Amanpour," but said she would have to meet with the center's other "stakeholders" first.

"We want to build bridges," Khan said. "We don't want to create conflict, this is not where we were coming from. So, this is an opportunity for us to really turn this around and make this into something very, very positive. So we will meet, and we will do what is right for everyone."

But Khan also said the angry reaction to the project "is like a metastasized anti-Semitism."

"It's not even Islamophobia. It's beyond Islamophobia," she said. "It's hate of Muslims."

At the pro-mosque rally, staged a block away from opponents' demonstration, several hundred people chanted, "Muslims are welcome here! We say no to racist fear!"

Dr. Ali Akram, a 39-year-old Brooklyn physician, came with his three sons and an 11-year-old nephew waving an American flag. He noted that scores of Muslims were among those who died in the towers, and he called those who oppose the mosque "un-American."

"They teach their children about the freedom of religion in America – but they don't practice what they preach," Akram said.

John Green, who lost a friend in the attacks, said that although organizers have the right to build the project, "I think if they moved it, they would get the respect of more Americans than if they play hardball." He was demonstrating in the group of mosque opponents.

Gila Barzvi, whose son, Guy, was killed in the towers, stood with mosque opponents, clutching a large photo of her son with both hands.

"This is sacred ground and it's where my son was buried," the native Israeli from Queens said. She said the mosque would be "like a knife in our hearts."

She was joined by a close friend, Kobi Mor, who flew from San Francisco to participate in the rally.

If the mosque gets built, "we will bombard it," Mor said. He would not elaborate but added that he believes the project "will never happen."

Rauf, in an interview with Bahrain's Al Wasat newspaper, said America's sweeping constitutional rights are more in line with Islamic principles than the limits imposed by some Muslim nations.

"American Muslims have the right to practice their religion in accordance with the Constitution of the United States," Rauf said. "I see the article of independence as more compliant with the principles of Islam than what is available in many of the current Muslim countries."

A portion of the Al Wasat interview – to be published Monday – was seen Sunday by The Associated Press.

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NEW YORK — The proposed mosque near ground zero drew hundreds of fever-pitch demonstrators Sunday, with opponents carrying signs associating Islam with blood, supporters shouting, "Say no to rac...
NEW YORK — The proposed mosque near ground zero drew hundreds of fever-pitch demonstrators Sunday, with opponents carrying signs associating Islam with blood, supporters shouting, "Say no to rac...
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04:56 PM on 08/25/2010
It's not about religion or racism it's about ReSPect!!! for those who lost their lives and their families.
I believe respect it's a word everybody forgot about.
04:03 PM on 08/25/2010
I'ts not about freedom, it's not abour religion it's about ResPEct which a lot of peopl forgot about this very significant word!!! Respect for those who died and their families. Not mosque should be built there.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Joseph-Ohio
03:36 PM on 08/25/2010
Bigotor or Bigotee ?

We need a Bigot Expert !

A number of posters seem to jump to many conclusions; for instance about what "kind" of American I am; but then don't share a conclusion by assigning it some sort of label or something.

Do they think I am a "bigot" for instance.

They would be wrong - read my posts.

I believe I'm a good American.

One seems to think that there is too much corruption in New York City government to allow a special zoning election to be called to either allow or disallow the mosque. Corruption in government does exist - I'll grant that.

When so much disagreement exists what else is to be done then ?

Have everyone just cave in to religion ?

In that case - what about separation of church and state ?

What does the Constitution say about that ?

There are many interpretations of every facet of every thing / issue that exists.

There are many solutions to issues.

What do other posters suggest to peacefully settle this heated argument within our Democracy ?

Many posts and replies smack of "labeling" me as some sort of a religious bigot.

Other posters come right out and say it about anyone who stands opposed to the mosque at ground zero.

But, what can be said about a religious tenet that is bigoted against any other ?

Does that not make it's believers bigots ?

Why doesn't it ?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ReedYoung
global mean land-ocean temperature 1880 to present
12:17 PM on 08/27/2010
I won't comment on your feelings of being treated unfairly by others, both because feelings are subjective and I haven't followed this conversation closely enough to have any opinion on that.

Joseph: "Have everyone just cave in to religion ? (I don't know what you even mean by that.)
In that case - what about separation of church and state ?
What does the Constitution say about that ?"

The Constitution establishes a right to religious freedom. A right allows individual choices to be free from review, approval or disapproval of others, even if *all* others are unanimous in your disapproval. The Constitution makes all complaints about the location of this or any other religious building legally irrelevant. Muslims have property rights to the building at issue and the Constitution prohibits everybody from discriminating against them on the basis of religion. Title 18 further clarifies that discrimination on the basis of religion is a felony.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Joseph-Ohio
03:11 PM on 08/25/2010
A number of posters seem to jump to many conclusions; for instance about what "kind" of American I am; but then don't share a conclusion by assigning it some sort of label or something.

Do they think I am a "bigot" for instance.

They would be wrong - read my posts.

I believe I'm a good American.

One seems to think that there is too much corruption in New York City government to allow a special zoning election to be called to either allowing or disallowing the mosque. Corruption in government does exist - I'll grant that.

When so much disagreement exists what else is to be done then ?

Have everyone just cave in to religion ?

What about separation of church and state ?

What does the Constitution say about that ?

There are many interpretations of every facet of every thing / issue that exists.

There are many solutions to issues.

What do other posters suggest to peacefully settle this heated argument within our Democracy ?

Many posts and replies smack of "labeling" me as some sort of a religious bigot.

What can be said about a religious tenet that is bigoted against any other ?

Does that not make it's believers bigots ?

Why doesn't it ?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Joseph-Ohio
09:45 AM on 08/25/2010
REWRITTEN TO CORRECT A SPELLING ERROR AND FOR CLARITY :

What is said by silence to a principle / tenet / act that one does not believe in.

Forsaking freedom to speak your mind against said principle / tenet / act is an act of fear.

Caving in and forsaking your freedom to speak against said principle / tenet / act is caving in to those who want to silence you.

Screw - to the death - all of those types and especially those who are freedom's / our / the U.S.A's enemies.
09:39 AM on 08/25/2010
Is the majority citizens that happen to be Muslims, people that lost somebody on 9/11 or people that claim "they are losing their country"?
09:17 PM on 08/24/2010
The poloing data frorm hundreds if not thousands of polls has shown the about 20% of the the population are easily swayed by the lowest forms of propaganda. Couple this ignorance with the decline in their standard of living over the last 30 years, they are more and more willing to display their anger. Only they cannot do it against the power system that helped create their plight so they displace it onto any convenient target. AlQaeda resonates but it too is nebulous and unknown, so Muslim is a convenient place to displace their bitterness. If you really anayzed their anger you'd find that it has nothing to do with Muslims nor mosques.- it's their own fears and failures that drive them and to defeat these plans will enhance what little self-worth they have left.

Sadly, this form of tyranny is all to common in our society and is so easily manipulated. It makes our society ripe for the rise and expansion of fascism.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Janetshusb
05:57 PM on 08/24/2010
The sensitivity issue is over played and I for one am beginning to suspect that what people are so sensitive to is not the place but the people involved which begins to make this just a plain old racist sensitivity. I'm pretty sure I remember the white schools that had to integrate long ago used the "sensitivity" issue in their long fight against integration. Interesting, how intertwined religion and racism are so intertwined.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Janetshusb
05:51 PM on 08/24/2010
“Lets say the worst happens and America runs completely off the rails bans the center on Park Place. OK, what happens to the Burlington Coat Factory? What can be built there that won't offend someone? It's a area where many Muslims live. What happens if an apartment is built there and a Muslim prays in the apartment?. Will someone complain that the praying is insensitive to their 9/11 pain? Will they report this activity. Will Muslim prayers be banned in the apartment? What if a theater is built there instead. Will Muslim films or films about Muslims be banned? What if a book store goes into the Burlington Coat Factory. Will we have a book banning because someone's sensitivity about 9/11 hasn't been resolved. Is there a statute of limitations on sensitivity? Have we gone stark raving mad?”
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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09:37 PM on 08/24/2010
Isn't it strange that the protestors picked NY of the three 9-11 sites to create this scene. In Washington D.C. inside the Pentagon there is a multi cultural chapel that serves everyday as a Muslim prayer room. One day a week on Fridays a regular Muslim service is held. That room, where those services are held, is less than 60 yards from where the crashed plane entered the building. All of this has been going on since 2002. Interesting article that makes you ask what is wrong with these protestors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/19/AR2010081906506.html?hpid=topnews
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lesperado
glad I wasn't born conservative
09:31 AM on 08/24/2010
I think many of the "out of town" protesters in NYC were a little surprised how the Muslim community center is not at Ground Zero.... and not that close.

The community center is not at Ground Zero. The hallowed sacred ground is reserved for such holy entities as a Starbucks, a specialty cigar shop, a woman's fine clothing, Friday's restaurant, offices and apartments!
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StevenM
Chess Coach
09:57 AM on 08/24/2010
The conservative right doesn’t like Islam, so they start with name calling. They call an Islamic community center with a prayer room, a Mosque. They call an Islamic community center blocks from ground zero, a Mosque at ground zero. It conjures up in the imagination images of elaborate domes, minarets, and prayer halls, with a muezzin standing in the minaret calling the faithful to prayer for all to hear. And this at ground zero, on the hallowed ground of our dead? Where we have built a reverent memorial … “a Starbucks, a specialty cigar shop, a woman's fine clothing, Friday's restaurant,” etc.

How’s that?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MichelNYC
vive le libéralisme !
12:30 PM on 08/24/2010
I can spot at least one "out-of-towner" in the picture above. (Hint: I
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lesperado
glad I wasn't born conservative
01:03 PM on 08/24/2010
huh?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lesperado
glad I wasn't born conservative
09:12 AM on 08/24/2010
So if some people are so emphatic about this being a "mosque" then the Muslims SHOULD NOT have to pay taxes on income from the 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, or food court, right?
10:46 AM on 08/24/2010
It's both. The mosque is being run separately from the centre, so the taxes must be paid.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lesperado
glad I wasn't born conservative
01:06 PM on 08/24/2010
“If you have a 12 story building which has a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court and a room for Bible study and prayer....

would that be a church?”
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lesperado
glad I wasn't born conservative
01:07 PM on 08/24/2010
the prayer room is separate from the food court? What?????
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WOODSTOCKER51
HAVE A NICE DAY!
08:08 AM on 08/24/2010
.I HAVE TO LAUGH WHEN ALL THOSE MACHO CONSTRUCTION WORKERS BARK ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY HATE TERRORISTS..AND WHAT GREAT AMERICANS THEY ARE..ALL WAVING THEIR FLAGS....THEY NEED A SHORT LESSON IN U.S. UNION HISTORY...
Labor Unionists and Anarchists Blamed
Public outcry was enormous. Press coverage contributed to a mood of hysteria. Two weeks later, the cover of Frank Leslie's Illustrated Magazine, one of the most popular publications in the US, featured an illustration of the "bomb thrown by anarchists" cutting down police and a drawing of a priest giving the last rites to a wounded officer in a nearby police station.
The rioting was blamed on the labor movement, specifically on the Knights of Labor, the largest labor union in the United States at the time. Widely discredited, fairly or not, the Knights of Labor never recovered.
Newspapers throughout the US denounced “anarchists,” and advocated hanging those responsible for the Haymarket Riot. A number of arrests were made, and charges were brought against eight men.
08:34 AM on 08/24/2010
I don't know what you're talking about. Labor Unions don't exist anymore - didn't you hear? Banning together to argue for protections and better wages is un-American. Apparently that's why construction companies tend to hire undocumented foreign workers.
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WOODSTOCKER51
HAVE A NICE DAY!
09:07 AM on 08/24/2010
SO.YOU CANT SEE THOSE "ALL AMERICAN CONSTRUCTION WORKERS...WITH THEIR LOCAL NUMBER ON THEIR HARDHATS?".........LOL
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WOODSTOCKER51
HAVE A NICE DAY!
09:16 AM on 08/24/2010
Apparently that's why construction companies tend to hire undocumented foreign workers.”

.SO,,,.THOSE COMPANIES GET ARRESTED AND FINED FOR DOING THAT??.......YOU WOULD HOPE,,, NO?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
IFany
move forward or die
08:06 AM on 08/24/2010
I beginning to find the families of the are the real problem with their opposition, Respecting their feelings but were their not Muslims who also die are their feelings not worth remembering, I getting a little sick and tired of people demonizing a religion, of spokesmen using emotions and a people bias as a basis to tolerate bigotry. I want those 9/11 family members to speak for themselves and to be spoken too, To emphasis that you cannot demonize an entire religion simply because you associate that religion with the terrorist who attacked on 9/11. That they need help to help them see that their anger and hate is misplaced. But that is not the leadership being shown an the Right except their use of this bigotry as a political tool.
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WOODSTOCKER51
HAVE A NICE DAY!
08:02 AM on 08/24/2010
.TIM MCVEIGH WAS A REGISTERED REPUBLICANS SO...,,USING THAT LOGIC....OKLAHOMA CITY SHOULD NOT ALLOW REGISTERED REPUBLICANS INTO THEIR CITY LIMITS.........

.NOW I UNDERSTAND RACISM........LOL
09:20 AM on 08/24/2010
please turn off the CAPS... it's unnecessary and rude and a PITA to read...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
IFany
move forward or die
07:41 AM on 08/24/2010
People here trying to legitimize bigotry has a irrational argument, there is no argument that trying to use a religion as a vehicle to advance hate and bigotry is absurd on it's face and a terrible premise to try to make it right, no matter how many people are trotted out crying that their feeling are hurt.