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8 States' 'Gun Freedom' Lawsuit Should Be Dismissed, Federal Magistrate Says

MATT GOURAS   09/ 1/10 06:43 PM ET   AP

Gun Laws

HELENA, Mont. — A group of states seeking freedom from federal gun laws were dealt a blow Wednesday when a federal magistrate recommended dismissal of a lawsuit launched by gun rights advocates who argue Congress has overstepped its bounds with gun control.

The magistrate sided with the U.S. Department of Justice, which says courts have already decided that Congress can set standards on such items as guns through its power to regulate interstate commerce. The recommendation now goes to the federal judge in Missoula hearing the case – and even gun rights advocates recognized it is likely he will side with the magistrate.

The issue was launched last year with "firearm freedoms act" laws backed by gun advocates in Montana and led to a lawsuit filed by gun advocates with the backing of Montana, Utah, Alabama, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Wyoming and West Virginia.

The states argue they should decide which rules, if any, would control the sale and purchase of guns and paraphernalia made inside their borders. They say the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution assures that the federal government only has those powers that are specifically given to it by the U.S. Constitution.

Federal magistrate Jeremiah Lynch beat back that argument in his recommendation dated Tuesday.

"Because federal firearms laws are a valid exercise of Congress' power under the Commerce Clause as applied to the intrastate activities contemplated by the act, there is no 10th Amendment violation in this case," Lynch wrote.

Lynch also challenged the standing of Gary Marbut and his Montana Shooting Sports Association to file the lawsuit in the first place.

Gun control advocates hailed the initial ruling.

"The gun lobby's so-called 'freedom' acts would threaten public safety by circumventing lifesaving Federal laws," said Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "The Magistrate's recommendation was correct that the lawsuit, and the Act itself, should be thrown out."

Marbut said he is not surprised by the magistrate's recommendation, and believes it is likely that Federal Judge Donald Molloy will agree with his magistrate.

"We expected an adverse ruling in district court, which is fine, because it will give us control of the appeals process. We need to get in front of the Supreme Court," Marbut said. "Truly we need to overturn a half century of Commerce Clause precedent and only the Supreme Court can do that."

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HELENA, Mont. — A group of states seeking freedom from federal gun laws were dealt a blow Wednesday when a federal magistrate recommended dismissal of a lawsuit launched by gun rights advocates ...
HELENA, Mont. — A group of states seeking freedom from federal gun laws were dealt a blow Wednesday when a federal magistrate recommended dismissal of a lawsuit launched by gun rights advocates ...
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02:42 PM on 09/09/2010
The main topic that seems to be missed in this article is that in places like Montana- this law was written based on Intrastate not Interstate. These weapons and other componets were marked as such for use in that state (Montana).
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
02:48 PM on 09/03/2010
Here in Florida we have one large gun manufacturer (Kel-Tec CNC, Inc.) and many smaller ones. When a firearm is produced within a state and sold to a legal resident of that state no "interstate commerce" is involved.

Commerce = commercial trade.
Interstate = across a state line.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
05:28 PM on 09/02/2010
I have done my best for years not to offend or 'scare' the general public while exercising my rights. I have done my best to be politically correct and keep the peace with those who seem to be more afraid of law abiding citizens that stand up for themselves and their rights than they are of the criminal elements in society.

I am to the point of being done with it. PC is overrated and if living my life in a law abiding manner while exercising my rights in accordance with all the laws of the land offend others or overload their delicate sensibilities, I am not going to accept any blame or responsibility for it.
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07:01 PM on 09/02/2010
You are indeed deluded if you feel that your "political correctness", or lack thereof, is worthy of anything more than the most trifling consideration.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
10:29 PM on 09/02/2010
Your trifling consideration is just as noteworthy.
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08:42 AM on 09/02/2010
Molon Labe!

http://www.amazon.com/Molon-Labe-Boston-T-Party/dp/1888766077/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283431317&sr=1-5
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
11:20 AM on 09/02/2010
Right on. :)
07:03 AM on 09/02/2010
Get rid of all gun laws now. Everyone should have the right to purchase and own a gun no matter what. The criminally insane, convicted felons, children, illegal immigrants etc., all should be able to carry fully loaded handguns at all times. It's all a part of natural selection.
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
09:22 AM on 09/02/2010
I do not believe your proposal to be rational.
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
11:22 AM on 09/02/2010
Cute, but no one other than you is making that argument.
01:06 PM on 09/02/2010
Molon--have you noticed that the less rational the disarmament activist, the more ignorant the rants?
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hrpmap
Retired man still active..
07:02 AM on 09/02/2010
Get the book "The Dirty Dozen" and read it. The federal government claims the power to regulate my ability to raise wheat on my own property not for sale but for my own use, and they claim that the commerce clause gives them that right. The commerce clause is the most abused portion of the constitution.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
03:01 PM on 09/03/2010
Right you are! Considering the "Federalist" intentions of most of those men who actually wrote our Constitution it would be reasonable to evaluate the Commerce Clause in two parts.

1. To prevent the States from enacting tariff or non-tariff barriers to trade.
2. To promote efficient and productive trade among the States.

In late 18th century parlance the word "regulate" meant to ensure the "regular", that is smooth, efficient and orderly functioning of a device or system. Regulate means "to make regular", not to control or hamper or impose some arbitrary value system on.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LouGots
06:43 AM on 09/02/2010
Actually, language in the Supreme Court cases dealing with things like so-called "safe schools zones" suggests that the Wickard doctrine is of limited vitality when it comes to Federal jurisdictionj over guns not actually in interstate commerce. Yes, the feds can regulate federally licensed dealers, but we should not be so sure that they can reach indirect guns/commerce clause connections once the guns have left the stream of actual commerce..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez It is not quite true that ". . .we need to overturn a half-century of Commerce Clause precedent: The work has already begun.
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06:03 AM on 09/02/2010
Maybe the NRA folks, to be completely consistent, should challenge the ban on carrying their weapons onto airplanes, or inside federal buildings, public schools, etc....I mean "Second Amendment Rights" are after all not subject to any "common sense" regulation what-so-ever according to them.
Think of the $ that could be saved if we could just do away with all that airport security regulation etc.

The 2nd. Amendment is not subject to any "common sense regulation" PERIOD according to Conservatives. Heck, they are willing to allow terrorists to freely purchase weapons in the USA so why not go all the way and challenge the Constitutionality of the Airport Security ban on weapons being toted on planes!
Shouldn't law biding gun owners be allowed to "protect themselves" and exercise their 2nd amendment rights on airplanes too...to be consistent?

Just sayin....
06:53 AM on 09/02/2010
This is a commerce clause action. It relates to the manufacture and sale of products entirely within the border of a single state, never crossing a state line. I already can avoid federal regulations that apply to manufacture and sale of products by making things within my state and only selling them only within my state. Now, the feds do a lot of practice of stepping into this, and apply their regulations even to entirely in-state sales. But they also do this rather inconsistently, applying rules in some product areas and not in others. A proper commerce clause challenge would cover all such areas at once. But even narrowed to guns, if this wins, it can be usable case law to help avoid similar regulations of other entirely-in-state sales of other products.
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LouGots
06:58 AM on 09/02/2010
There comes a time when spewing blatent errors which minimal research coud have corrected becomes bearing false witness. "Vincible ignorance," some of us call it. No one objects to convicted terrorists being stopped from purchasing firearms. Hell I don't object to convicted terrorists being sewed into hogs' hides and kicked out of the backs of airplanes.

But your flippancy refers to the practice of putting those suspected--no more than that--of such connections on the NCIS "do not buy" list for purposes of the firearms purchase instant records check. That's not how we do things in this country, Tovarische. We do not strip people of civil rights merely because someone has denounced them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fishnetdiver
God hates facts!
01:44 AM on 09/02/2010
so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's just a strange coincidence that these states that have filed to keep the federal gun enforcement laws from applying to them also happen to be states with a very high number of active militias...
...yeah I'm sure that has nothing to do with this.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
03:11 AM on 09/02/2010
Proof of this assertion?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fishnetdiver
God hates facts!
03:33 AM on 09/02/2010
Well let's just start with Montana and go from there (since they are the state that fronted this lawsuit)

The Rise of the Militias
Montana Human Rights Network, "A Season of Discontent: Militias, ... Paramilitary formations are illegal in Montana. Militia organizers skirt the law by ...
mediafilter.org/caq/caq.militia.html

Norman Olson calls militia to Montana
Olson said that he has called for militia members from around the country "to go to Montana as quickly as possible." He reasons that the "presence of ...
www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/9605/militia.html

ADL Report: Armed & Dangerous: Montana
Militias have been forming in Montana since February 1991. While the rhetoric of these groups focuses on gun control and other familiar militia causes, ...
ftp.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/.../montana.html

Militia “Sheriff” to Appear in Montana Communities
has offered organizing tips to the Militia of Montana, and the Militia ... Montana, helped set up anti-government militias which were the “lawful militia. ...
www.mhrn.org/publications/.../AdvisoryonMack.pdf

see the thing is there's this new fancified thing called 'Google' and you can use it to find what you're looking for. In this instance I did a search for 'Montana militias' and got 422,000 results. You should try it sometime!
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BOBINMO
01:12 AM on 09/02/2010
The Pistol Pimps at the NRA arent going to be happy about this.
12:37 AM on 09/02/2010
The so called 'firearm freedom act' is nothing more than a ruse/scam to convince the non-cognitive that somehow this will protect their 'right to bear arms' or to somehow to keep Obama from taking their guns, not that there was ever any such threat, [another RWNuts rumor that went viral among the non-cognitive] and that somehow that it was a State's Rights issue to control {?!] weapons made within their borders. [Readers note which states followed Montana and form your own conclusions].
Frankly I would like to see Fed gun laws enforced more effectively. and I have owned and carried guns most of my adult life, but I have seen the outcomes of jerks, drunks and idiots having guns handy and let's face it, States don't have the $ to setup their own gun control force.
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RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
03:15 AM on 09/02/2010
Ah, the old.. "Do as I say, not as I do." rule.
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mariusvinchi
Saint Lucia is looking better and better every day
12:36 AM on 09/02/2010
1) The founding fathers never imagined automatic weapons capable of firing 3000 rounds a minute. Some weapons serve no purpose outside of combat. A hunter or sportsman has no need for this level of firepower.
2) Though no actual study has been done to determine if the "waiting period" also known as a "cooling off" period, has positively reduced gun crimes (nor could such a study ever be remotely conclusive based on the very nature of crimes of passion), it CAN be anecdotally inferred.
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HisXLNC
No.
12:56 AM on 09/02/2010
The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting or sports.
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mariusvinchi
Saint Lucia is looking better and better every day
02:07 AM on 09/02/2010
As you wish..
In addition to sportsmen, I will add home and personal defense to the categories that don't require a fully automatic firearm. A shotgun or handgun more than meets the needs of those two areas.
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mariusvinchi
Saint Lucia is looking better and better every day
02:20 AM on 09/02/2010
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Notice that this statement is all one sentence. Also take notice of the first portion regarding a "well regulated militia" accent on "militia." When the nation was founded there existed no law enforcement vis a vis police. The term militia was generally used to define an organized group under the command of a community leader who would address the security of a community. "Regulated" means the same thing today as it did then. Additionally, it was the law of the land at that time, that all able bodied men own a rifle to aid in defense of the nation.
At any rate, I return to the same premise as before. The 2nd in no way says that you may own whatever "arms" you chose, but that you may own a firearm. It also doesn't say that felons may or may not own weapons. Why is it that those who claim to be Constitutional purists, have no problem with barring felons, but cry because they can't buy a Mac10 with a sound suppressor legally(unless they have a class III)?
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demsrsilly
Proud to be non union
05:58 AM on 09/02/2010
The founding fathers never imagined the telephone let alone the internet. So using your logic, the 1st does not apply to any form of communication other than what was available at the time the Constitution was written.

There are limitations on every right, the 2nd is no different. Heller and McDonald both stated that there are reasonable restrictions permitted, I believe restrictions on fully automatic weapons is reasonable. A complete ban on all firearms is not constitutional.
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mariusvinchi
Saint Lucia is looking better and better every day
06:11 AM on 09/02/2010
If you read the end of the post DIRECTLY ABOVE this post, you will notice the comment regarding the Constitution and the mechanism for amending it as necessary.
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12:34 AM on 09/02/2010
Owning a gun ought to be a privilege, not a right as the constitution says. This is one of the areas where our forefathers didn't think through. I am not against the gun ownership but each gun owner must do the followings at their expense.

1) The owner must register all the guns in a central database like FBI database.
2) The owner must purchase gun insurance to cover the cost of law suits and criminal prosecutions if the gun is involved in unlawful activities.
3) The owner must be annually certified by a psychiatrist that he/she is sane.
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RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
01:21 AM on 09/02/2010
"This is one of the areas where our forefathers didn't think through."

Here you are wrong, there is ample evidence that the Founders thought this through thoroughly. Much is written by many of those who were there to back up their decisions on the 2nd as well as the other rights.
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JStading
Trust me, I'm an attorney...
01:51 AM on 09/02/2010
I'm guessing the founding fathers were thinking that it would have been a good idea to have guns in the home because when they were compelled to keep guns in central lockups, the British Army almost smashed the resistance by attempting to seize and destroy them.

If you complain about guns in the home, you have to complain about Switzerland, which requires males of military age to keep assault rifles and automatic pistols in the home.
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12:25 AM on 09/02/2010
When this case hits the SCOTUS, it could help put some real limits of the Interstate Commerce Clause.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
03:56 AM on 09/02/2010
That would be excellent.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LouGots
07:04 AM on 09/02/2010
Read U.S. vs. Lopez.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Heidland
I like all things pie-ish. Oh, and cake.
08:19 PM on 09/01/2010
Why would you want to remove the federally required protections provided by current gun sales law?

I don't want some jerk with documented mental instability to have a gun. Nor do I want people to be able to walk in, by a gun, and walk right back out with it. Waiting periods are good.
10:08 PM on 09/01/2010
And that is not at all what anyone is suggesting.

You are either being mendaciously conflating, or your comprehension is duh phale.
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
10:16 PM on 09/01/2010
While I concur with a desire to prevent access to firearms to individuals who have been adjudicated as mentally defective, I am unaware of any data suggesting a benefit resulting from an imposition of "waiting periods" prior to purchase of a firearm. Have you a reference to any such information?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jim Pasterczyk
Banned!
12:24 AM on 09/02/2010
Keep a disgruntled ex-worker or ex-lover from doing a mass killing, give the other side time to defend against it preemptively.