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States' Lawsuit Against Health Care Reform Likely To See Trial, Federal Judge Says

MELISSA NELSON   09/14/10 04:36 PM ET   AP

Health Care Reform Lawsuit
A federal judge says he likely will let go to trial portions of a lawsuit by Florida and 19 other states challenging the president's health care overhaul as unconstitutional.

PENSACOLA, Fla. — A federal judge said Tuesday he will likely dismiss only parts of a lawsuit by 20 states challenging the Obama administration's health care overhaul as unconstitutional, though he didn't specifically say what portions.

The Obama administration had asked U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson to dismiss the entire lawsuit. The states and the administration disagree over whether people should be required to have health insurance, and whether states should pay additional Medicaid costs not covered by the federal government.

The judge said he will issue a ruling by Oct. 14. The lawsuit is likely to wind up before the U.S. Supreme Court.

If Vinson upholds the states' challenge, he would overturn decades of law enforcing the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce, said Ian Heath Gershengorn, deputy assistant attorney general.

"This court is free to disagree with Congress' policy judgments but it is not free to overturn 75 years of Constitutional law," he said.

Administration attorneys also argued that the section requiring health insurance doesn't take effect until 2015 and it's up to an individual taxpayer – not the states – to challenge the law then.

But David Rivkin, an attorney representing the states, argued the law will destroy the state's Constitutional sovereignty by burdening them with uncontrolled Medicaid costs. The federal government is over reaching its taxing authority by penalizing people for not taking an action – not purchasing health insurance, he said.

"By imposing a mandate on inactive individuals they are eviscerating state sovereignty," he said.

The judge questioned whether the administration was correct in arguing that all Americans are active participants in the health care system regardless of whether they choose to have health insurance and are therefore subject to penalties under the government's authority to regulate commerce.

Health insurance is the mechanism to regulate the health care market, Gershengorn said.

"The healthiest individual can be hit by a bus. He cannot keep himself out of the health care market," Gershengorn said.

But Rivkin likened the health care law to the subprime mortgage crisis.

"If this cost shifting is allowed then it would let the government demand that people buy a prescribed package of mortgages," he said.

Florida's Republican Attorney General Bill McCollum filed the lawsuit just minutes after President Barack Obama signed the 10-year, $938 billion health care bill into law last March. He chose a court in Pensacola, one of Florida's most conservative cities. A similar case is unfolding in Virginia.

There, the Obama administration also tried to get the lawsuit dismissed, saying Virginia lacked standing to sue, but a federal judge has allowed it to continue, ruling that the overhaul raises complex constitutional issues.

The other states that are suing are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

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PENSACOLA, Fla. — A federal judge said Tuesday he will likely dismiss only parts of a lawsuit by 20 states challenging the Obama administration's health care overhaul as unconstitutional, though...
PENSACOLA, Fla. — A federal judge said Tuesday he will likely dismiss only parts of a lawsuit by 20 states challenging the Obama administration's health care overhaul as unconstitutional, though...
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
pcrudy 08:35 AM on 09/15/2010
"The healthiest individual can be hit by a bus. He cannot keep himself out of the health care market," and therefore the government can tell us what to do with our lives and our money.

"The healthiest individual can be killed by a bus. He cannot keep himself out of the graveyard or the mortuary market", therefore, I declare that the federal government has the power to force all people to buy  Read More...
08:51 PM on 09/26/2010
Because of Health Care Reform insurers are prohibited from setting lifetime limits and
annual limits. Just think if you had had a serious illness and the insurance company
said sorry we can not pay your bill you hit the limit. The rest of your cancer care will
have to be paid by you.

Republicans want to repeal this!

Insurance companies are now stopped from canceling policies after a policy holder
becomes sick. People were being canceled after paying for policies for years and
just when they got sick and started collecting the policy was cancelled.

Republicans want to repeal this!

Insurance policies will no longer be able to exclude children with preexisting conditions.

Republicans want to repeal this !

Democrats need to speak up and support the President and his policies that support
the middle class. It is time that Democrats be heard over the 24 hour
right wing informercial.

Democrats need to support Democratic candidates that support the middle class.
01:41 PM on 10/14/2010
You couldn't be more wrong. Republicans want health care reform, everyone can agree that the system is flawed, but they don't want our constitutional rights trampled in the process. This bill FORCES us to get healthcare or be taxed... that is a direct violation of the commerce clause and the constitution, the federal government can only tax commerce, not the lack of it. And as far as the insurance companies go, they are private companies, they can do what they want to protect their profit. This is called capitalism, which has made this country what it is today. If you don't like it move to China.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fineartgalaxy
Speaking from the heart, always.
11:08 AM on 09/22/2010
I have been in the health care field, in the financial side of things, for more than 30 years. Health care is a business like any other. Insurability and amount of care is proportional to profit. That is OK. They are private enterprises and they can do that. The shameful part in all this is us. It is not the companies, it is us. We feel that we have no obligation whatsoever to foot the bill for those patients that are uninsurable. But we have been, for many years now. Let's do the math and check the statistics. If we believe that investing our tax money in public health is a waste, lets really take a look at how much we have been paying all these years and way before this reform. And yes, we will always be paying for those that do not pay for themselves. Whether we like it or not. Whether it is justifiable or not. Why is it that the outrage is not there when it comes to our taxes going to the war and the banks. Do we think war and the banking system is a better use of our tax money? Do we really think that having a healthier society is not profitable? If we accept Capitalism as a good system, we have no choice but to pay for anything and anybody who is not profitable. We have, for many years now. What is so different this time?
01:48 PM on 10/14/2010
The bill violates our individual rights and our states sovereignty. Period. If we already pay for it now why do we need to tax the people and create a huge wasteful government bureaucracy to control it? Going to war didn't require me to buy anything or be taxed, nor did bailing out the banks (both of which i think are pretty stupid) but this bill violates our rights. I'm all for reform but not this garbage. If you want the government to control our lives move to China with kenz3000
07:53 PM on 09/21/2010
I am with you to file a suit against the federal government to reform the healthcare bill.

Rancho Cordova personal injury lawyer
12:23 PM on 09/15/2010
I just had a Tea Klan member post in reply that he was proud that Bush committed Torture and Kidnapping to keep him "free"...so he had the freedom to not have Health Insurance and live like an animal more or less...

And that my friends is just what is so twisted about you Baggers.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
redstateblues69
01:38 PM on 09/15/2010
I thought lobotomies were outlawed years ago. What caused the recent spike in frontal lobe damage?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TedEjr
Geeky nerd. Or is it nerdy geek?
02:47 PM on 09/16/2010
Unfortunately, the damage has always been there. People are just less reluctant to hide their infirmaties.
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JHancock
Why do wingers h8 American workers?
08:01 PM on 09/17/2010
Obviously 50% of the population is below normal, that is just life. The teabarfers represent the bottom 20%, the absolute dumbest of the dumb.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
veritas aequitas
11:16 AM on 09/15/2010
Why is healthcare insurance a product that gets government attention?

According to the American ideal, we are independent individuals with inalienable rights to support our own lives and happiness by our own efforts. That means taking responsibility for your own medical needs, just as you take responsibility for your grocery shopping and car payments. It means no one can claim that his need entitles him to your time, effort, or wealth.

Where is the willingness to defend this ideal by saying, “Your health is your responsibility–and if you truly cannot afford the care you need, then you must ask for private charity or set up a payment plan–not pick your neighbor’s pocket to pay for it?”
11:59 AM on 09/15/2010
well said
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HerrMonk
Son of Apollo
12:02 PM on 09/15/2010
You're making way too much sense.
12:19 PM on 09/15/2010
i love it when people turn things on these liberal so well stated
09:59 AM on 09/15/2010
How exactly is Health Care considered interstate commerce?

FACT: You can't buy health insurance across state lines.

Definition of interstate commerce - The buying and selling of products and services across state borders.

Anyone?

For those of you who are not learned enough to know that you can not buy health insurance across state lines here is a link.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/November/06/health-insurance-across-state-lines.aspx
10:22 AM on 09/15/2010
nice one, i never connected the two until now
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
veritas aequitas
11:07 AM on 09/15/2010
Your point is that government has limited choices by regulating who can do business in what markets, and then took over to solve the problem they created.
09:56 AM on 09/15/2010
Since the healthcare reform lawsuit would likely reach the Supreme Court, and based on how the Supreme Court has ruled in recent cases, it's likely that they'll uphold the state's challenge. Because of this, Democrats need to act to correct the healthcare mess before the Supreme Court rules on the lawsuit, because if the healthcare bill remains in its currently unpopular state, the Supreme Court ruling would be a harsh blow to Democrats and a victory for Republicans. And there is one way Democrats can do just that.
On Jul. 22, 2010, 129 Democratic representatives introduced H.R. 5808, which would add a public option to the healthcare bill passed in March. If Democrats pass this bill before November, it would greatly increase support for the overall healthcare bill, and make what was a lawsuit against an unpopular bill a lawsuit against a popular bill, so that the state AGs filing the lawsuit would end up working against most Americans' interests. Not only that, but passing H.R. 5808 would boost candidates, especially in vulnerable districts where they need all the support they can get.
Tell the Democrats about this, how the healthcare lawsuit would likely reach the Supreme Court, how the Supreme Court would likely rule on the lawsuit, and how they must pass the public option to get the people to support their side of the lawsuit, before they end up on the losnig side of the lawsuit.
10:24 AM on 09/15/2010
good luck with that one.........laughing
08:35 AM on 09/17/2010
You might be looking at this with skepticism, but with Democrats gritting their teeth at their poll numbers, if people keep calling or emailing the Democrats and telling them to pass a public option to boost support, there will be some Democrats out there that would pay attention, and persuade Democrats to make a serious push for the public option, and when faced with strong public support for the public option, most Democrats, not wanting to anger the public even more, would be compelled to support it. This is the last chance to correct healthcare before the elections, and Democrats need to be told by the people to seize the opportunity to do so.
09:51 AM on 09/15/2010
Roe v Wade established a right to privacy in one's body. Right?
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
pcrudy
08:35 AM on 09/15/2010
"The healthiest individual can be hit by a bus. He cannot keep himself out of the health care market," and therefore the government can tell us what to do with our lives and our money.

"The healthiest individual can be killed by a bus. He cannot keep himself out of the graveyard or the mortuary market", therefore, I declare that the federal government has the power to force all people to buy a plot of land and a casket. Otherwise, others will have to pay to dispose of these stiffs."

It's beneath stupid.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
lqw
Justmyopinion
08:57 AM on 09/15/2010
Does the government pay the mortuary costs too ?
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
pcrudy
09:01 AM on 09/15/2010
The issue is not who pays or what is being paid, the issue is who has the right to control your life.
09:41 AM on 09/15/2010
250
10:25 AM on 09/15/2010
nice one
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
lqw
Justmyopinion
07:30 AM on 09/15/2010
This letter is from an ER doctor to Obama:

During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.
While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one pack of cigarettes every day, eats only at fast-food take-outs, and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer. And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture" a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me". Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.
08:26 AM on 09/15/2010
I went to a convenience store a while ago the person in front of me purchased 3 cartons of cigarettes then used a welfare card to buy pop chips and candy. If he did not buy the cartons, he could have afforded the other garbage with cash not welfare. Why does welfare pay for pop chips and candy and to top it all off at a convenience store. But I'm sure someone will say he needed the candy and pop.

earned income tax credit is a failed robin hood program.....if a person pays 500 in tax, even if they are considered to be poor they should not receive more money in refund then 500.....it should not even be possible
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
lqw
Justmyopinion
09:11 AM on 09/15/2010
I agree.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
IamfromTexas
If you disagree with me, simply insult Texas.
08:27 AM on 09/15/2010
Very nice


fanned
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rgilley
07:20 AM on 09/15/2010
"States' Lawsuit Against Health Care Reform Likely To See Trial, Federal Judge Says "

Meanwhile these same states will take the money. A bit two faced isn't it?
Big insurance lobbys are behind this whole scam to overturn the will of an ELECTED Congress.
And of course the Corporate Republicans and Teabagger Republicans will follow their corporate masters, and people will continue to die from lack of care.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
lqw
Justmyopinion
08:56 AM on 09/15/2010
The article says that they will take money for Medicaid. Medicaid is funded equally by the Federal government and the States.
09:15 AM on 09/15/2010
Not true. Much of medicaire is an unfunded mandate.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onegandolf1
07:04 AM on 09/15/2010
As I see it , under the argument being put forth by The States, if the Federal Government cannot force citizens to have health insurance, then Pennsylvania cannot force me to carry auto insurance. Is that their logic?

And, the Feds have no right to regulate Interstate Commerce. I can't understand why the judge doesn't throw the whole thing out as spurious.
08:33 AM on 09/15/2010
auto insurance you do not need to live legally in this country if you do not own a car.......so you can opt out of this mandate........if i choose to live in the US i can not opt out of this mandate

and federal constitutional restrictions are different than state rights and individual rights
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
IamfromTexas
If you disagree with me, simply insult Texas.
08:40 AM on 09/15/2010
Pennsylvania does not force you to buy auto insurance. You only need auto insurance if you choose to have a car. You have the right to no purchase a car and not purchase the insurance.

Not sure in Penn, but in Texas you do not have to buy insurance if you can prove finacial responsibility which is a cash bond of $100,000. Since I do not have that kind of cash and I like driving a car I purchase insurance. It is still my choice. To own a car I accept that their are qualifications and responsibilities and I agree to those.

Aslo, health care is forcing me to buy insurance on my wife and my kids. With auto insurance I only insure the cars I choose to own. When I was a newlywed, I only had one car because I could not afford a second car with insurance. My wife and I shared. Our choice. The state did not force me to do anything I did not want.

Plus I could choose any type from any company in the country. Again My Choice. No one forced me to do anything.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
LoCoVrod
09:06 AM on 09/15/2010
Let me guess.
Educated (relatively speaking) in Texas, too?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rgilley
09:08 AM on 09/15/2010
By "the other side n" you mean Corporate Republicans who are protecting big insurance companies by misinforming ignorant people. And don't count your votes before they are hatched polls are right about 1% of the time.
I can't beleive the American votwer is stupid enough to put the same Corpoate republicans back in that got us in this mness. And Obama didn't screw things up this bad in only 18 months. Repubs were in charge 6 out of 8 years, and teabagger republicans are far right wackos who won't even debate!
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06:34 AM on 09/15/2010
That should be interesting. Wonder where they will find a jury of twelve people who haven't already formed an opinion on this?????
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
emrogers
For the times, they are a changin'
07:04 AM on 09/15/2010
Let's have them put 12 unemployed people on the jury with no health care and see how it goes. How can one's status not be a factor. I don't think this is a jury case anyway.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
pcrudy
08:43 AM on 09/15/2010
Will be tried by the Judge himself - no jury trial will be held.
04:06 AM on 09/15/2010
I agree that an "insurance" model is a lousy way to operate a health care delivery system. But, Obambi did nothing to change that. He simply promoted a "different" insurance model. A more expensive one.

He seemed to think that he was entitled to get something without working for it. He failed to get into the frey and fight for something worthwhile.

And, now the courts are going to have to protect us from the mess that he was willing to declare a "success." Sad. Just sad.
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03:14 AM on 09/15/2010
75 years of constitutional law. Yep, that's when FDR bullied the supreme court into rewriting 150 years of constitutional law.

If they can make you buy health insurance, they can do anything. Can anyone say with a straight face that this sort of thing was meant to be the dominion of the federal government?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
redstateblues69
03:53 AM on 09/15/2010
I'm so old I remember when the constitution was written with only white property owners able to vote. People of color and women were prohibited. I miss the good old days.

Is that a picture of you? I don't mean to be insulting but it looks like a picture of--------
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04:18 AM on 09/15/2010
What does that have to do with the commerce clause? What's wrong with the picture?
09:17 AM on 09/15/2010
Constitution gave no one the right to vote. Learn your history.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
emrogers
For the times, they are a changin'
06:50 AM on 09/15/2010
I assume you have the same opinion on Medicare, SS, etc???
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
pcrudy
08:46 AM on 09/15/2010
If a stay at home mom does not work, then how much Medicare tax or SS tax is that person required to pay under our current law? Aren't those b@stards forcing others to pay for their medicare, which they are entitled to sign up for at the age of 65?

Oh, that's right. If I choose not to work, then I don't pay those taxes! If I don't own a car, then I don't have to buy auto insurance.