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U.S. Has Been In Afghanistan As Long As Soviet Russia

PATRICK QUINN   11/26/10 02:29 AM ET   AP

Afghanistan Us Russia
FILE - In this 1987 file photo, mujahedeen guerrillas sit atop a captured Russian T-55 tank. The US military presence in Afghanistan has surpassed the Soviet occupation of the country. The Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan, and now the United States is about to have something in common with that futile campaign: nine years, 50 days. The U.S.-led coalition has now been fighting for as long as the Soviets did, and while two invasions had different goals _ and dramatically different body cou

KABUL, Afghanistan — The Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan, and now the United States is about to have something in common with that futile campaign: nine years, 50 days.

On Friday, the U.S.-led coalition will have been fighting in this South Asian country for as long as the Soviets did in their humbling attempt to build up a socialist state. The two invasions had different goals – and dramatically different body counts – but whether they have significantly different outcomes remains to be seen.

What started out as a quick war on Oct. 7, 2001, by the U.S. and its allies to wipe out al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and the Taliban has instead turned into a long and slogging campaign. Now about 100,000 NATO troops are fighting a burgeoning insurgency while trying to support and cultivate a nascent democracy.

A Pentagon-led assessment released earlier this week described the progress made since the United States injected 30,000 more troops into Afghanistan earlier this year as fragile.

The top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, has said NATO's core objective is to ensure that Afghanistan "is never again a sanctuary to al-Qaida or other transnational extremists that it was prior to 9/11."

He said the only way to achieve that goal is "to help Afghanistan develop the ability to secure and govern itself. Now not to the levels of Switzerland in 10 years or less, but to a level that is good enough for Afghanistan."

To reach that, there is an ongoing effort to get the Taliban to the negotiating table. President Hamid Karzai has set up a committee to try to make peace, and the military hopes its campaign will help force the insurgents to seek a deal.

When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan on Dec. 27, 1979, its stated goal was to transform Afghanistan into a modern socialist state. The Soviets sought to prop up a communist regime that was facing a popular uprising, but left largely defeated on Feb. 15, 1989.

In 1992, the pro-Moscow government of Mohammad Najibullah collapsed and U.S.-backed rebels took power. The Taliban eventually seized Kabul after a violent civil war that killed thousands more. It ruled with a strict interpretation of Islamic law until it was ousted by the U.S.-led invasion.

Nader Nadery, an Afghan analyst who has studied the Soviet and U.S. invasions, said "the time may be the same" for the two conflicts, "but conditions are not similar."

More than a million civilians died as Soviet forces propping up the government of Babrak Karmal waged a massive war against anti-communist mujahedeen forces.

"There was indiscriminate mass bombardment of villages for the eviction of mujahedeen," Nadery said. "Civilian casualties are not at all comparable."

Michael O'Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution think tank and Afghanistan expert, said NATO forces have killed fewer than 10,000 civilians and a comparable number of insurgents.

The allied military presence has also been far smaller and more targeted. Even now, nearly all operations are restricted to the south and east of the country where the insurgency is most active. O'Hanlon points out that at the height of the resistance, there were 250,000 mujahedeen representing all Afghan ethnic groups fighting the Soviets, while "the current insurgency is perhaps one-eighth as large and is only Pashtun."

"We do have big problems. But there is no comparison between this war and what the Soviets wrought," he said.

"The Soviet war set Afghanistan back dramatically from what had been a weak but functioning state. NATO has, by contrast, helped Afghanistan to a 10 percent annual economic growth rate, 7 million kids are now in school, and most people have access to basic health care within a two-hour walk," O'Hanlon said.

He also points out that although Karzai was hand-picked by the United States after the invasion "he has since been elected twice by his own people."

The United States and its allies, however, have made strategic mistakes, including taking their eyes off Afghanistan and shifting their attention to the war in Iraq. In those crucial years, the Taliban and their allies surged back and took control of many parts of the Afghan countryside and some regions in the south – especially parts of Kandahar and Helmand.

Wadir Safi, a professor at Kabul University who served as civil aviation minister under the Najibullah government, said risks surround the U.S. effort because "the Americans never reached the goal for which they came."

"If they don't change their policy, if they don't reach their goals, if they don't reach agreement with the armed opposition and with the government, then it is not a far time that the Afghan people will be fed up with the presence of these foreign forces," Safi said.

The United States has pledged that its commitment to Afghanistan will run past the 2014 date when NATO forces are supposed to transition to a noncombat role.

A Russian analyst said the Soviet Union tried to do something similar when it left Afghanistan. It backed Najibullah with money and weapons, and left behind a trained and heavily armed Afghan military. But it all crumbled and the mujahedeen took over Kabul in 1992. Najibullah stayed in the city's U.N. compound until Kabul fell to the Taliban in 1996, and he was hung from the main square.

"The Soviet Union tried to leave its protege alone to run the country, but that ended in the Taliban victory," said Alexander Konovalov, the head of the Moscow-based Institute of Strategic Assessment, an independent think-tank.

"The U.S. now wants to create a self-sufficient structure behind backed by some support forces," he said. "It remains to be seen how successful it could be in Afghanistan."

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KABUL, Afghanistan — The Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan, and now the United States is about to have something in common with that futile campaign: nine years, 50 days. On Friday, the ...
KABUL, Afghanistan — The Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan, and now the United States is about to have something in common with that futile campaign: nine years, 50 days. On Friday, the ...
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rebelriser
artist, published author, activist
12:32 PM on 11/28/2010
So, What in the heck is wrong with TeaBaggers, Religious Rt, Republicans who forgot that Bush & Cheney AND their Republican supporters put this Afghanistan war on hold & unfinished to take us into their lied about Iraqi war for oil? We would have been FINSIHED in Iraq if Republicans had stayed and finished the job. Don't repeat lying Limbaugh & Republicans who say Democrats voted for going into Iraq. Democrats did NOT SEE the information that Bush & Cheney had, and who would think that an Administration would lie about anything as serious as reasons to go to war? Democrats trusted too much and Cheney & Republicans were criminally guilty of false information to have their war that they wanted all along to have access to the oil fields in Iraq..Remember? Bush & Cheney are OILMEN who earn profit from oil companies.
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10:03 AM on 11/28/2010
It's gratifying that our war is less bad than the Soviet's war.
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Codeine Priest
12:38 AM on 11/28/2010
"The Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan, and now the United States is about to have something in common with that futile campaign: nine years, 50 days"

We have another thing in common with the post-Afghan War Soviet Union - we're broke and bankrupt.

If we stay there long enough, I wouldn't rule out the collapse and breakup of the US, either.
History has a strange way of repeating itself (since we don't seem to learn from it).
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Badfinger1
...reconstruction has failed...
05:16 PM on 11/27/2010
.....I wonder if the Afghanistan franchise of the teaparty is really just fighting against "Big Governmen"t intrusion...."We don't want no stinkin democracy.." "You can have my AK-47 when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.."....
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dbmetzger
03:59 PM on 11/27/2010
Russian Veteran Urges Afghanistan Pullout for US Opinion Piece
US-led forces have now been In Afghanistan for 3,338 days, the same amount as the ultimately unsuccessful occupation by Soviet forces in the 1980s. Many Soviet veterans look back on their time in Afghanistan as one of torturous warfare and heartache.http://www.newslook.com/videos/269537-russian-veteran-urges-afghanistan-pullout-for-us?autoplay=true
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Enroh Mot
Veritas Lux Mea
03:49 PM on 11/27/2010
The American war machine is on automatic pilot.
BraveWarrior
The truth will set you free, like it or not
02:50 PM on 11/27/2010
The same pattern, the Soviet puppet governments were only safe and able to rule in Kabul and a few other cities. The rest of Afghanistan, the countryside, was the refuge for the Mujahideen and the resistance. The US controls the capital and a few occupied cities, while the countryside is sanctuary to their resistance fighters. Consider the basic rules of insurgencies, engender the support of the population, 'swim with the fish'-Chairman Mao. Choose the battlefields, the time and place of armed engagements, to benefit your forces. Force the occupying forces to overreact and cause large numbers of casualties on innocent civilians to radicalize them. Force the conflict to spread into the surrounding areas, and tie down the enemies forces with new emerging threats. Find a secure source of funding for weapons, fighters and operations, like the poppy fields. An insurgency cannot expect or need to actually defeat a larger and more powerful occupying force, its ability to survive and persist is the victory they require. Based on these tenets and a history of resisting foreign occupation, the Taliban have all ready won. We are just looking for a way out that 'saves' our face.
11:31 AM on 11/27/2010
We've been there as long as them and we learned nothing from their experience. What did we expect to do there? Did we have a plan going in? At least we now have a plan to get out - like the Russians did.
BraveWarrior
The truth will set you free, like it or not
02:59 PM on 11/27/2010
We thought with our exceptionalism, and state of the art weapons-we could shock and awe them like we did with Iraq. Bomb them from above, and make them wet their pants, surrender immediately and greet us as liberators. We would never have to worry about 'dead enders' that Rumsfeld scoffed at. In case you missed it Bill our plan was to make contractors, and MIC corporations rich! As GW would say 'Mission Accomplished!' Billions to hunt what we estimate about 100 al-queda. Seems like we could have bought them off and still saved billions. I forget, we only buy off our allies.
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10:02 AM on 11/28/2010
We do have immensely exceptional exceptionalism.
You think this is about money? How cynical. I thought it's about Freedom.
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Enroh Mot
Veritas Lux Mea
07:54 AM on 11/27/2010
We have always been at war with Eastasia, Oceania must prevail.
BraveWarrior
The truth will set you free, like it or not
02:34 PM on 11/27/2010
Hate, hate, hate, hate, come on everybody it will make you feel better. It will bring us together, now who were we hating, Iran, North Korea, it doesn't matter, we can always find someone. Hate, hate........everybody chant!
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General Armchair
What, me worry?
06:58 AM on 11/27/2010
This month so far 43 Coalition troops were killed by Taliban attacks compared to 29 for the entire month of November 2009. Seems quite likely there are roughly 30-50 percent more Taliban in the field against us at this time than there was a year ago. This is roughly the growth rate of the Taliban over the past 3 or 4 years.

O'Hanlon preaches progress, but I don't understand how THIS metric fits with his "narrative." There are other indications of disprogress, such as public opinion polls showing anger and frustration with foreign forces in Pashtun south as result of Marjah operations
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WorkhelpWorkhelp
Control your money locally. Charter banks now.
01:39 AM on 11/27/2010
Yeah !
We lost too !

?
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Iron100
03:29 AM on 11/27/2010
Even russians never lost in Afghanistan. When they left, Afghanistan had a communist government and it remained in power until talibans overthrew them in mid-90s. Stop repeating what you are taught by the same establishment that you are trying to criticize now based on limited knowledge.
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01:10 AM on 11/27/2010
3nemy sympathizers are tr@itors to America and should be charged with tre@son.
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Enroh Mot
Veritas Lux Mea
01:13 AM on 11/27/2010
The swindlers in the Big Banks that are destroying America, arrest them all.
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Aaron Aarons
09:47 PM on 11/27/2010
Treason to the U.S. Empire is loyalty to Planet Earth!

Up with Terraism! Down with Imperialist Nationalism!
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ykk9
I eat lots of beans
09:54 PM on 11/27/2010
Wow, you really fell for that one.
12:52 AM on 11/27/2010
Long enough to cause the collapse of the USSR, wonder how much longer we can afford this till the US Economy collapses?
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Iron100
03:36 AM on 11/27/2010
hahaha only a fool would believe that USSR collapsed because of afghanistan war.
Gorbachev was an American agent. He is the one who organized the break up of USSR between 1987 and 1990
BraveWarrior
The truth will set you free, like it or not
03:14 PM on 11/27/2010
Empires usually expire from overreaching beyond their powers or resources. History often repeats itself, it represents human nature. Once our economy collapses, we won't be able to afford or hold on to any allies.
03:20 PM on 11/27/2010
Dear BraveWarrior,

You have made a good point, normally an empires fails economically before it fails externally. The Roman long life is based on non-central control of the land they took over, and the fact that they were able to bring massive productivity improvements to the people that joined the empire.

When the wealther got colder, and crop yields reduced, it was impossible to feed all the people and the empire broke apart.

All society were formed because it was more productivity to be together than apart, but if you have a period of reductions in standard of living, the people will alway revolt.

See Greece, Ireland, and very soon the US. CA is going to test the foundations of this country, as people in CA are very wealthy, but will require the rest of the nation to bear its debt.
10:04 PM on 11/26/2010
We won, we won. I knew we could do it.
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Boobuzuela
Satire identical to actual Republican positions
09:16 PM on 11/26/2010
Let's see. The Taliban wouldn't turn over Bin Ladin to the USA for his crimes.

The USA won't turn over George Bush and Dick Cheney to Europe for theirs.

(war crimes, that is, torture, which violates US Code 18 Chapter 113c along with an unprovoked war against a sovereign nation --- per Geneva, that's a war crime).

How are these two any different?
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dannywanny
09:27 PM on 11/26/2010
But we have God on our side.
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01:08 AM on 11/27/2010
No one in Europe has asked that Pres. Bush or Cheney be turned over to anyone. No charges of any cr1me has been brought forth against them. The only ones who @ccuse americans of w@r crimes are the en3my and en3my symp@thizers.
03:20 AM on 11/27/2010
Another example of how when u lie in $#\T long enough, the smell goes away.....
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Joseph Caligiuri
disatisfied
06:55 AM on 11/27/2010
get your head out of that jar/////