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DADT: Troops Buck Historical Trend By Saying Gays OK

ANNE FLAHERTY   11/27/10 02:55 PM ET   AP

Dont Ask Dont Tell

WASHINGTON — When a majority of troops told the Pentagon this summer they didn't care if gays were allowed to serve openly in the military, it was in sharp contrast to the time when America's fighting forces voiced bitter opposition to accepting racial minorities and women in the services.

The survey, due out Tuesday, is expected to find pockets of resistance among combat troops to ending the ban on gays. But some 70 percent of respondents were expected to say that lifting the ban would have a positive or mixed effect, or none at all, according to officials familiar with the findings.

The study is expected to set the stage for a showdown in the Senate between advocates of repealing the 17-year-old "don't ask, don't tell" law and a small but powerful group of foes in the final days of the lame-duck Congress.

Repeal would mean that, for the first time in U.S. history, gays would be openly accepted by the military and could acknowledge their sexual orientation without fear of being kicked out.

U.S. troops haven't always been so accepting. Troop surveys conducted throughout the 1940s on blacks and Jews, and in the 1970s and 1980s on women, exposed deep rifts within a military that was dominated by white males but becoming increasingly reliant on minorities to help do its job.

In a study from July 1947, four of five enlisted men told the Army that they would oppose blacks serving in their units even if whites and blacks didn't share housing or food facilities.

The same study also revealed a deep resentment toward Jews. Most enlisted men said Jews had profited greatly from the war and many doubted that Jews had suffered under Adolf Hitler.

"Negro outfits should be maintained separately," an Army master sergeant from North Carolina told the Pentagon in 1947. "To do otherwise is to invite trouble and many complications. The equal rights plan should not be forced on the Army as an example to civilians."

Troops also offered dire predictions for what would happen if whites and black units were forced to serve together.

"For sure, all the GIs will quit the Army or buck like hell to get out," a 20-year-old Army private first class told the surveyors. The service members were quoted anonymously in the 1947 study.

Added another 19-year-old soldier: "If the Negro and the whites were mixed, there would be a civil war among the troops. There would be a lot of useless bloodshed if this happens."

But President Harry S. Truman issued a 1948 order on equal treatment of blacks in the services anyway – paving the way for integration during the Korean War. None of these doomsday scenarios came true.

It wasn't until Vietnam, when racial tensions in the civilian world bubbled over into the military, did race riots erupt in all four military branches.

By the 1980s, the military faced the issue of whether to allow women to serve on Navy ships and elsewhere on the battlefield. Troops were generally much more open to serving with women than they had been to serving with African-Americans 40 years prior. Still, many expressed serious concerns that allowing females as crew members would cause problems.

In one 1981 study, lower-ranking enlisted sailors blamed female crew members for a decline in "discipline, leadership and supervision."

As was the case in racial integration, letting women serve aboard ships and, eventually, on combat aircraft, didn't always go smoothly.

In 1990s, the Navy became embroiled in the "Tailhook" scandal in which naval pilots were accused of sexually abusing female officers at a Las Vegas convention. Also, about two dozen female service members were reportedly sexually assaulted during Desert Storm, when U.S. troops helped drive Iraq's Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991.

Women are still barred from many combat roles, including the infantry. But allowing women to join most military units never produced the kind of backlash or decline in military effectiveness that opponents predicted.

By the time President Bill Clinton proposed allowing gays to serve in the military in 1993, gays had been explicitly barred from military service since World War I.

Foes of lifting the ban argued that the military shouldn't be used to expand the rights of gays and that allowing them to serve openly would hurt troop morale and a unit's ability to fight – the same arguments used against women and blacks.

In the end, Congress agreed to let gays serve only if their sexual orientation remained secret.

Today, advocates say they believe history has shown that U.S. troops could handle any disruptions caused by lifting the ban. Opponents of repealing "don't ask, don't tell" say letting gays serve openly in the military is different from earlier struggles over the equality of race and gender. Open gay service, they say, raises unique moral questions, such as whether gay and straight troops should be forced to share living quarters.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., was expected to try to force a vote in early December, following testimony by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Adm. Mike Mullen and service leaders before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Thursday and Friday. The House has passed the legislation.

Much of the debate is likely to hinge on the results of the Pentagon study, with many senators saying they wanted to see whether troops would support such a change before voting for repeal. Still, it's far from clear whether the bill would even advance to a floor debate with Democrats and Republicans disagreeing on procedural grounds.

___

Online:

Gates transcript when review panel announced: http://tinyurl.com/28e2cb5

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WASHINGTON — When a majority of troops told the Pentagon this summer they didn't care if gays were allowed to serve openly in the military, it was in sharp contrast to the time when America's fi...
WASHINGTON — When a majority of troops told the Pentagon this summer they didn't care if gays were allowed to serve openly in the military, it was in sharp contrast to the time when America's fi...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
morgansher
just disgusted in general
02:17 PM on 11/30/2010
As a young and still uninformed straight woman who served in the AF 1974-79, I believed the ban on gays in the military was wrong, stupid and damaging to the military, the gay member and even the country. I remember being pretty ignorant about sexuality and gender back then too. During the time I was in, as I got to know a few gay and lesbian service members who courageously answered my questions about their gender preferences, I refused to out anyone for being gay even though we were under standing orders to do so. It was the only thing I ever deliberately lied to a commanding officer about. For over 25 years after getting out, when a conversation centered around gays in the military, I supported their right to serve at the level I could -- locally, with friends and family. The repeal of DADT is long overdue.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
0311SaltDog
01:46 PM on 11/29/2010
FACT:
Most "troops" are POGS that have jobs civilians do. They never fire their weapon in combat and NEVER take enemy fire or leave the wire.

There is NO PLACE for open sexuality of ANY KIND in a grunt unit.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband
02:06 PM on 11/29/2010
Good. Then the straights can live under a DADT for them as well. No wedding rings, no mention of spouse, nopcitures of same...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Timothy Beauchamp
blogger and activist
12:59 AM on 11/30/2010
EXACTLY! To even suggest "open sexuality" means "sexual conduct" is ridiculously ignorant.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Hokis329
They see me trollin', they hatin'
06:37 PM on 12/01/2010
excellent idea!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wmramlal
12:05 PM on 11/29/2010
It is disgraceful that people are putting their lives on the line on a daily basis and yet are denied the right to be open and truthful about their sexual identity.

Bigots argued against Blacks serving and being treated in a fair and equitable manner. Yet, when the change occurred the world did not end. As a result of the change, the Military as a whole became better for it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
0311SaltDog
01:44 PM on 11/29/2010
Comparing blacks to gays? I know a dude that used to be gay. Dont know anyone that used to be black so your comparison is weak.Being black and choosing to fudge pack your rackmate are 2 totally different things.

Also. Most "troops" are POGS who have jobs that civilians can do.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband
02:07 PM on 11/29/2010
There is no such thing as an "ex-gay" even if that GLBT person hated himself enough to think that he was "cured".
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wmramlal
04:09 PM on 11/29/2010
0311SaltDog

Based upon your comments regarding Gays as fudge packers, I have no doubt that were you around when Truman decided to treat Blacks in a fair and equitable manner you would have protested against that decision as well.

Racism of any kind should not be tolerated.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
pgobrien
10:19 AM on 11/29/2010
The statement is continually made that Marines are the strongest opponents to letting gays serve openly, but it's rarely mentioned that even the Marines approve of Gays serving by a factor of about 60% t0 40%.

Not to suggest that a 40% objection is not substantial, but reports make it seem like MOST Marines don't want this, and my reading says that's not true.
11:14 PM on 11/28/2010
This whole DADT fiasco is an embarrassment for the Pentagon's leadership. Either homosexuals have rights or they don't, to sidestep the fundamental question by taking a census of the "feelings" of soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen is a travesty. Shame on the Joint Chiefs for taking the easy path of delay.
Kimberly Christine
wish I was an expat
12:30 AM on 11/29/2010
Exactly! Next up--Let's ask the evangelical christians if gay people have the right to marry.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband
02:10 PM on 11/29/2010
F&F. GLBT people would never challenge the right of Christians or anyone else to believe and worship as they see fit. What we challenge is when they wish to make their beliefs the law of the land.
10:08 PM on 11/28/2010
Nice made up data. The troops said no such thing
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ldyandrea
10:40 AM on 11/29/2010
[citation needed]
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MIVOTE
Adds wisdom to knowledge
09:59 PM on 11/28/2010
Will these people please call Ms Lindsey Graham and John "Maverick" McCain? Tell them what they need to know so we an move on....

Thanks.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
maryjflyfree
Yes we did, AGAIN!
03:41 AM on 11/29/2010
Zing!! LOL ~ F/F
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Forester
Overeducated woods worker.
06:54 PM on 11/28/2010
So the USMC is the most frightened branch of the armed services?

That can't be good having a bunch of scared marines running around.
07:45 PM on 11/28/2010
Didn't you know? The Marines think they've won every war by themselves.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ldyandrea
10:41 AM on 11/29/2010
Or is it that their sense of discipline and professionalism can't continue to function in the shadow of GAY COOTIES!
iAREamerica
Never Trust a Dirty Clown!
06:32 PM on 11/30/2010
Sadly, as of this writing, there is still not an inoculation (shot) that can effectively reverse the devastating effects of GAY COOTIES.
06:24 PM on 11/28/2010
As a libertarian I am glad to see this 'buck' of the historic trends. DADT should be repealed and the men and women who were discharged should be exonerated.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ldyandrea
10:41 AM on 11/29/2010
Co-signed.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
morgansher
just disgusted in general
02:21 PM on 11/30/2010
You've got that right.
iAREamerica
Never Trust a Dirty Clown!
04:23 PM on 11/28/2010
The armed services that Republicans obviously favor by putting this silliness to a vote:

"Men, it's imperative that we take that hill from the enemy!...but first, before we do anything rash, let's take a quick survey to see if everyone's okay with that..."

By the way, since their beloved troops obviously don't seem to care about the same narrow-minded, hateful, and discriminatory ideology as they do, be prepared for their lack of ethical decency to once again move the goalposts.

They lose their argument, they change the reason. Repug 101 (See Iraq War).
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
maryjflyfree
Yes we did, AGAIN!
03:44 AM on 11/29/2010
co-sign, F&F!
creed840
1 of 99%.
02:46 PM on 11/28/2010
The Republican party does not care what the people think, nor what people who are serving think. The only care what the right wing thinks about. Because that is where the money comes from. Repealing DADT is not about doing the right thing. It's about money.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
BoyInBOYCOTT
11:59 AM on 11/28/2010
If HuffPo continues to SILENCE LGBTs on the Lindsey Graham thread 144 posts pending, WE gays/lesbians will move OUR discussion to LGBT sites. This is stupid and needless censorship.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
istvan13
The world needs more thinkers.
01:23 PM on 11/28/2010
I doubt that it's and attempt to silence the LGTBs. HP slows down and heavily monitors any thread that could have widely divergent views.

I posted a comment on that thread, it just took a little while before it made it past the censors...

Going to another website doesn't hurt HP, but it takes away the opportunity for people like me to hear your voice.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
BoyInBOYCOTT
01:41 PM on 11/28/2010
Going to another website does hurt HP, and anger us sufficiently and it won't merely be DADT threads, and how long do you think the ARTS, and STYLE, and LIVING, and ENTERTAINMENT sections will last without LGBTs?
YOUNG folks under 35yo don't even understand why anyone asks if their friends should be treated EQUAL.....what networking site survives with JUST folks in their 60's.....hmmmm?
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Cacey
Ignore rudeness, honor discussion
11:56 AM on 11/28/2010
McCain was on Candy Crowly's show this morning exploding -- I've never seen him that angry -- using ever disproved idea presented that support DADT then blaming Crowly and the media for the significance of the issue's even being brought up.
McCain, who was nearly kicked out of the Naval Academy, and has capitalized off the one heroric stance he ever did, has become senile, old, and overly political.  And to think I would have voted for him only 10 long years ago.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
BoyInBOYCOTT
07:24 PM on 11/28/2010
Watching the McCain video over at gay americablog, made me SO much angrier than reading the transcript. The fury I have towards McCain is as white hot as a phospherous burn in some child's eye.
Next time someone like Rove smears his family using a Christian Right phonetree in South Carolina...instead of being appauled, I'll be applauding,... smear him again auntie karl, and take a few shots at his thieving wife who stole pills from a CHARITY.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
maryjflyfree
Yes we did, AGAIN!
03:51 AM on 11/29/2010
Ouch ! dang I felt that and it hurt so good. Thanks for the reminders BoyInBOYCOTT ... f/f
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband
02:12 PM on 11/29/2010
Me, too BoyInBOYCOTT. It is ridiculous that this dinosaur has anything to say...about anything.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rextrek
50yr old, Moderate-liberal in S.NJ/Phila
10:40 AM on 11/29/2010
me too..to think I would have Easily voted for McCain 10yrs ago.....Today, I wouldn't vote him Dog-catcher
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TYRANNASAURUS
UGH!....people taste like crap!
11:42 AM on 11/28/2010
Funny the marines are against it................ I know several ex-marines that are ......shall we say gay?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
BoyInBOYCOTT
12:02 PM on 11/28/2010
it's not true, not ALL Marines are BOTTOMS
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamapower
OBAMA*BIDEN*2012
05:43 PM on 11/28/2010
Hmmm, speak for yourself.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
dimplasm
More chocolate, please.
12:09 PM on 11/28/2010
I know a couple too.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mamapower
OBAMA*BIDEN*2012
05:43 PM on 11/28/2010
Me too!